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[Diablos]

Voter turnout was the same, 17%. Now, more people voted, but how they represented the youth vote was exactly the same. 54% of those voters were democratic. Imagine what a win Kerry would have if say, 50% of the youth voted.

 

[Seth C]

I'm curious, rich folks say pretty much what you said above so let me ask you. Are you personally concerned with only how well off you are doing? or the country as a whole? If you are doing great but the country isn't, that's ok with you? Rising Poverty, Rising Healthcare costs... that's all ok with you because it doesn't affect you personally? I'm not trying to flame, I really want your take on this.

I am certainly NOT a wealthy person. I live within my means and do everything I can to improve my situation. In most of the country my income would be considered under poverty level, I'd imagine. I care about both my own well being and that of the nation. Poverty will rise and fall, and it won't be primarily the fault of the President. Healthcase costs will rise, and again it will not primarily be the fault of the President. Whoever is in office when these things happen takes all the blame for it, when they really have little to do with it. Poverty levels and unemployment levels, historically speaking, are very low. People need to realize that, and also understand that things were good 8 years ago not because of Clinton, not because a Democrat was in office, but because of an insane stock market soaring on extremely inflated internet related stocks. Do you think the internet would not have boomed under other leadership? Do you think it would have continued to boom under Gore? Please, be honest.

 

[Iceman]

"IF you ever you visit americuh bring your bible and a gun!"

If you want to be shunned and ostracized by all the super intelligent, better than thou, angostic elitists that run and infest the universities and colleges of this country.

I'm a biology student too.. and all I get is harassed about my beliefs. Some of that I essentially asked for, of course, choosing to attend a liberal school in New York, University of California Berkeley and now University of Wisconsin Madison... forget that I made those choices based on getting the best education/degrees I could.

Basically, all you people outside of the US that do hate us, you'll feel right at home in our best universities.

 

[Ripclawe]

Mike Barnicle of the Boston Herald says Kerry will concede this afternoon (1 pm)

 

[Seth C]

Well if your life goes on the same as it did four years ago, then that's okay then

You're just proving that the 'us and them' attitude that rules the ...dumb fuck states that went red is as strong as ever...

Please. If the country was doing as poorly as you want to think it is, enough people's lives would NOT be going the same, and enough people would vote against Bush to get him out of office. The point was NOT that I only care about my own life, but that one President does not make that much of a difference in ANY of our lives. Mine, yours, the nation's as a whole.

 

[Spainkiller]

I am certainly NOT a wealthy person. I live within my means and do everything I can to improve my situation. In most of the country my income would be considered under poverty level, I'd imagine. I care about both my own well being and that of the nation. Poverty will rise and fall, and it won't be primarily the fault of the President. Healthcase costs will rise, and again it will not primarily be the fault of the President. Whoever is in office when these things happen takes all the blame for it, when they really have little to do with it. Poverty levels and unemployment levels, historically speaking, are very low. People need to realize that, and also understand that things were good 8 years ago not because of Clinton, not because a Democrat was in office, but because of an insane stock market soaring on extremely inflated internet related stocks. Do you think the internet would not have boomed under other leadership? Do you think it would have continued to boom under Gore? Please, be honest.

The factors that dictate the hugely complex social/economic factors that eventually shape a country's identity/running are primarily set in motion by those in power. Granted, the face of a nation - Bush in this case has little to do with the running of a county. Be in order to access the levels that do, you go through him. And he's an easy access point... that's the problem.

 

[Razoric]

doomsday is here

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/03/court.fire.ap/index.html

 

[Doth Togo]

Fuck Bush. Someone go hire my avatar and take his ass out.

 

[Eric-GCA]

Pic from CNN, just begging to be photoshopped.

 

[Spainkiller]

Please. If the country was doing as poorly as you want to think it is, enough people's lives would NOT be going the same, and enough people would vote against Bush to get him out of office. The point was NOT that I only care about my own life, but that one President does not make that much of a difference in ANY of our lives. Mine, yours, the nation's as a whole.

Of course it does. You vote Bush in, you vote his cabinet in too.

 

[Do The Mario]

"IF you ever you visit americuh bring your bible and a gun!"

If you want to be shunned and ostracized by all the super intelligent, better than thou, angostic elitists that run and infest the universities and colleges of this country.

I'm a biology student too.. and all I get is harassed about my beliefs. Some of that I essentially asked for, of course, choosing to attend a liberal school in New York, University of California Berkeley and now University of Wisconsin Madison... forget that I made those choices based on getting the best education/degrees I could.

Basically, all you people outside of the US that do hate us, you'll feel right at home in our best universities.

Well I defiantly don’t hate America (not that you’re applying that).

I just think that the one man that runs the country is a moron.

America is the world’s hegemonic power so the result of this election has a significant effect on the rest of the world.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

...one President does not make that much of a difference in ANY of our lives. Mine, yours, the nation's as a whole.

Disagreed. A President and his adminstration makes a hell of huge difference to EVERYONE within their term.

 

[Baron Aloha]

one President does not make that much of a difference in ANY of our lives. Mine, yours, the nation's as a whole.

Bologna!

Tell that to the families of the other 1,100 soldiers who died in Iraq fighting a war based on poor intelligence (or as some would say lies).

 

[Seth C]

The factors that dictate the hugely complex social/economic factors that eventually shape a country's identity/running are primarily set in motion by those in power. Granted, the face of a nation - Bush in this case has little to do with the running of a county. Be in order to access the levels that do, you go through him. And he's an easy access point... that's the problem.

But again, he WILL be gone in four years. People are making far too great an issue out of one election, one man. Had Kerry won, would I be doing the same? Of course not, because I attempt to be somewhat reasonable. As with Bush, if Kerry had been elected, I believe my life and the lives of most others in America would go on primarily unchanged. I've lived under five President in my life, and frankly, I've never noticed a difference in my lifestyle that could at all be credited to one President or the other.

 

[Iceman]

disagreed right back..

if there is any influence on EVERYONE.. it is miniscule on average. IMO.

 

[Diablos]

Kerry is supposed to be speaking in like 10 minutes

 

[Do The Mario]

Please. If the country was doing as poorly as you want to think it is, enough people's lives would NOT be going the same, and enough people would vote against Bush to get him out of office. The point was NOT that I only care about my own life, but that one President does not make that much of a difference in ANY of our lives. Mine, yours, the nation's as a whole.

Do you want to tell that to an Iraqi child who’s parents have both been killed?

 

[Seth C]

Bologna!

Tell that to the families of the other 1,100 soldiers who died in Iraq fighting a war based on poor intelligence (and some would say lies).

You mean the soldiers of this nation who will primarily vote in support of Bush?

 

[xsarien]

If you want to be shunned and ostracized by all the super intelligent, better than thou, angostic elitists that run and infest the universities and colleges of this country.

I love how the right is starting to take aim at the "intelligent elite," as if all of a sudden, being "intelligent" and "thinking" somehow makes you wrong for America.

Nothing can be further from the truth, and I suspect both Republicans who are disenchanted with their party's direction (of whom there are plenty), as well as Democrats will do a lot of figurative soul searching. I refuse to let this country be overrun with religious windbags who put the Bible before common sense, and before this country - this world's - future.

 

[OmniGamer]

Ahhhh, what a Bright New Mourning this is....

 

[Kettch]

I wonder who the republicans are going to blame now when the shit hits the fan?! No clinton, republican congress and who knows how many bush appointed judges in the sup. court.

The liberal media.

 

[DarienA]

I am certainly NOT a wealthy person. I live within my means and do everything I can to improve my situation. In most of the country my income would be considered under poverty level, I'd imagine. I care about both my own well being and that of the nation. Poverty will rise and fall, and it won't be primarily the fault of the President. Healthcase costs will rise, and again it will not primarily be the fault of the President. Whoever is in office when these things happen takes all the blame for it, when they really have little to do with it. Poverty levels and unemployment levels, historically speaking, are very low.

Let me stop you right here... Poverty has not fallen period. It continues to rise, look at the trends read the articles... there has been no decline in poverty at all, only increases. Same thing goes for healthcare costs. Before I took the current job I have I worked for a non-profit whose focus was the spreading issue of poverty. Poverty levels are historically very low? Who told you that? Compared to what?

An article

A quick quote:

"According to the Census Bureau, family income is down three years in a row -- $1,511 under Bush -- and a distressing 4.3 million Americans have fallen into poverty. By the end of Clinton's first term, family income was up more than $2,400 and 1.5 million Americans left the poverty rolls. The 1996 deficit was $180 billion better than projected when Clinton took office; the 2004 deficit is a whopping $800 billion worse."

or 2

"Freeze the frame on income and you see that even after family incomes have declined for three straight years, real weekly and hourly wages for the typical worker have continued to fall in 2004.

Freeze the frame on health-care premiums and you see not only the largest four-year increase on record under Bush -- more than $3,500 for the typical family -- but also a $900 jump in 2004 alone, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation."

If necessary I can find other articles that continue to show the growing trend of poverty in this country.

People need to realize that, and also understand that things were good 8 years ago not because of Clinton, not because a Democrat was in office, but because of an insane stock market soaring on extremely inflated internet related stocks. Do you think the internet would not have boomed under other leadership? Do you think it would have continued to boom under Gore? Please, be honest.

The internet? I have NO idea. I'm concerned about the growing poverty levels in this country, the widening gap between the rich and the poor, rising healthcare costs, and the pitiful unemployment rate.

But again, he WILL be gone in four years. People are making far too great an issue out of one election, one man. Had Kerry won, would I be doing the same? Of course not, because I attempt to be somewhat reasonable. As with Bush, if Kerry had been elected, I believe my life and the lives of most others in America would go on primarily unchanged. I've lived under five President in my life, and frankly, I've never noticed a difference in my lifestyle that could at all be credited to one President or the other.

Thanks the above post seems to verify your narrow focus. As long as you are ok, everything is ok. How many of those presidents did you live under as an adult my I ask.

Democrats NEVER take us in to battles that kill people...never!

You're muddying the issue. A democrat let administration didn't take us to this one.

 

[akascream]

Woke up this morning to the good news. GG libs.

 

[Miguel]

*beingadumbfuck* *pic*

Chill with that shit asshole.

 

[Seth C]

Do you want to tell that to an Iraq child who’s parents have both been killed?

Democrats NEVER take us in to battles that kill people...never!

 

[Diablos]

Woke up this morning to the good news. GG libs.

GG libs? You support Bush AND have a Pavement tag. SCARY.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Its the end of the world as we no it.

I fear for the nation I was raised in, America has just added fuel to the fire.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

To say the President doesn't effect the economy is ridiculous. There's just a bit of time delay with a lot of the influence.

Deficit spending under Reagan (particularly 2nd term) helped create the recession that tanked Bush Sr. Relative deadlock between congress and the President under both Bush Sr and in Clinton's first term helped the economy boom later.

The bubble popping and 9/11 weren't caused by any president, but what Bush is doing now (huge deficeit spending) will have major ripples. Look for the economy to be in horrible shape over the next few years.

Feh. I'm disappointed in my country.

 

[Spainkiller]

Chill with that shit asshole.

Don't want to see the truth? Fucking deal with it, because that's what voting for Bush in the first place caused. Now he's got permission to carry on

 

[Baron Aloha]

You mean the soldiers of this nation who will primarily vote in support of Bush?

Doesn't matter! Their family members are still dead because of this president's actions. In all likelyhood if Bush wasn't the president the vast majority of those soldiers would still be alive today. Saying that the president doesn't affect anyone is ignorance. Pure and simple.

 

[akascream]

GG libs?

Yeah, you guys put up a good fight. Not as good as in 2000, but still fun.

 

[robochimp]

Democrats NEVER take us in to battles that kill people...never!

He was responding to your statment about the preident whomever they are not affecting peoples lives. You started the argument dont deflect it

 

[Spainkiller]

Edit: Chill.

Do American soldiers go out into Iraq with blinkers too?

 

[Do The Mario]

Democrats NEVER take us in to battles that kill people...never!

Two wrongs make a right?

How childish

Can I remind you that we are discussing the war on terror not some other conflict, this was potentially the most unnecessary war in history.

 

[Ripclawe]

World leaders reaction so far.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=222930

 

[Spainkiller]

But again, he WILL be gone in four years. People are making far too great an issue out of one election, one man. Had Kerry won, would I be doing the same? Of course not, because I attempt to be somewhat reasonable. As with Bush, if Kerry had been elected, I believe my life and the lives of most others in America would go on primarily unchanged. I've lived under five President in my life, and frankly, I've never noticed a difference in my lifestyle that could at all be credited to one President or the other.

You're missing my point. I'm not mouning for America, I'm mourning for the rest of the world. From a personal perspective, being from the UK, I've got to deal with my own gvt. licking up to Bush.

4 years is a hell of a long time in politics. Hell, 4 minutes is. What kind of frameworks is he going to put in place for the next prez? I dread to think.

 

[Seth C]

Let me stop you right here... Poverty has not fallen period. It continues to rise, look at the trends read the articles... there has been no decline in poverty at all, only increases. Same thing goes for healthcare costs. Before I took the current job I have I worked for a non-profit whose focus was the spreading issue of poverty. Poverty levels are historically very low? Who told you that? Compared to what?

An article

A quick quote:

"According to the Census Bureau, family income is down three years in a row -- $1,511 under Bush -- and a distressing 4.3 million Americans have fallen into poverty. By the end of Clinton's first term, family income was up more than $2,400 and 1.5 million Americans left the poverty rolls. The 1996 deficit was $180 billion better than projected when Clinton took office; the 2004 deficit is a whopping $800 billion worse."

or 2

"Freeze the frame on income and you see that even after family incomes have declined for three straight years, real weekly and hourly wages for the typical worker have continued to fall in 2004.

Freeze the frame on health-care premiums and you see not only the largest four-year increase on record under Bush -- more than $3,500 for the typical family -- but also a $900 jump in 2004 alone, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation."

If necessary I can find other articles that continue to show the growing trend of poverty in this country.



The internet? I have NO idea. I'm concerned about the growing poverty levels in this country, the widening gap between the rich and the poor, rising healthcare costs, and the pitiful unemployment rate.

And you're comparing one eight year term to one four year term? You think that proves anything at all? Please. That was entirely my point, and the point was completely brushed off by you. You don't care about the internet? IT is what GAVE YOU lower poverty and income during Clinton's administration, not Clinton. It's gone now. That isn't Bush's fault.

My point was, give it time. Under Bush or some future President, poverty will decrease and income will increase. Under some Democrat poverty will increase and income will decrease. Under some Republican poverty will decrease and income will increase. The same will happen in reverse. A Democrat isn't a guarantee of a good economy, low poverty, or high income just as a Republican isn't a guarantee of a poor economy, high poverty, or low incomes. Over the long-term one President, one cabinet, one four year term, will not make a significant impact on your life, my life, or the lives of the vast majority of Americans.

You will always believe that things would have been better under Kerry than they will be under Bush, no matter what the next four years hold. You'll believe that because things were good under Clinton, and hey, Kerry is a Democrat like Clinton, so it makes sense, right? You'll believe it because that's almost all you, I, or most others our age have known. That doesn't make any of it true.

 

[cybamerc]

Seth C:

> Democrats NEVER take us in to battles that kill people...never!

At least those soldiers didn't die because of a lie.

 

[Spainkiller]

You will always believe that things would have been better under Kerry than they will be under Bush, no matter what the next four years hold. You'll believe that because things were good under Clinton, and hey, Kerry is a Democrat like Clinton, so it makes sense, right? You'll believe it because that's almost all you, I, or most others our age have known. That doesn't make any of it true.

Nah. They just couldn't have got any worse. And it would have shown the rest of the world that America won't stand for being led by a proven idiot.

 

[Slo]

I'm disappointed that Bush was elected, but what I'm most disappointed in is the fact that states voted the same way that they voted in 2000, with very few exceptions. Democratic states voted Dem, and Rednec....err Republican states voted Republican. We as a country have had a lot of shit happen to us in the last 4 years, we should not be exactly the same people as we were then. We were attacked, we went to war, our economy went to shit, the whole gay marriage thing. I just can't believe that the pot wasn't stirred at all. You mean to tell me that 9/11 didn't convert anybody in Cali to the Republican side? And the general shitty state of the economy didn't piss off anyone in the bible belt? To me that says that people aren't paying attention, and they aren't using their minds.

 

[Zilch]

"If Bush wins, I would feel happy that the American people have not allowed themselves to be scared and made the decision they considered reasonable," Putin said at a Kremlin news conference following talks with Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi.

Oh shiiiiiiiii....

 

[Seth C]

He was responding to your statment about the preident whomever they are not affecting peoples lives. You started the argument dont deflect it

No. My point was that ONE President won't affect people's lives more or less than ONE other President. In that regard, my reply was absolutely in line with my argument.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

The "Don't worry, it'll be alright" bullshit is how the control you, you tool!

 

[akascream]

Pretty sad when you can't even do better than Al Gore, and after all this Iraq business too. I said all along Kerry should have made the economy his primary platform. Exit poll data even confirmed that.. but heh, I'm not sure I feel safe using exit polls to back my arguments after last night.

 

[olimario]

World leaders reaction so far.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=222930

So
+Germany
+France
+Russia
+Japan

-Sweden
-Finland
-Muslims

 

[Sysgen]

I consider myself an independent and vote with what makes sense not by party. Said that, I tune past the Limbaugh and Hanity shows everyday and always ask myself who listens to this propaganda. Last night I found out more people than I thought. It's ironic that these hosts always talk about people drinking the Democrat koolade. My feeling is that there is way more Republican koolade out there. How this guy gets voted back in after the gross mismanagement that he's exhibited over the last four years can only be attributed to one thing. Koolade.

 

[Seth C]

Two wrongs make a right?

How childish

Can I remind you that we are discussing the war on terror not some other conflict, this was potentially the most unnecessary war in history.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but when you have to have one "wrong" in the office making decisions either way....

Well, in that case it just doesn't make one hell of a lot of difference.

 

[Azih]

Kinda sorta, negatives count way more than positives in this case olimario. It's pretty extreme for anybody not to go "we offer congratulations to the winner, am certain will have great relationship".

 

[Do The Mario]

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but when you have to have one "wrong" in the office making decisions either way....

Well, in that case it just doesn't make one hell of a lot of difference."



You are very narrow mined, to understand what the rest of the world currently thinks of America you should take a vacation.

Like someone previously stated the only positive about having bush for 4 more years is all the great material he gives comedians.

Just what the head of the worlds hegemonic power should be a jester

 

[xsarien]

Also, if Bush ultimately wins, well, to paraphrase Bill Maher:
At least he'll - for once - be forced to clean up his own mess.

But we're not going to know about Ohio for at least a week:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/02/states.vote/index.html