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Official Fitness Thread of Whipping Your Butt into Shape
- Thread starter Captain Glanton
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BigGreenMat
Member
Mr. Snrub said:
Oh, I am with you. I put 8 reps as an absolute max. I generally frown upon anything abover 5 reps a set. Also I don't think it matters if it is part of conditioning. If you are trying to condition then supersetting is the answer. High reps on Clean are just dangerous and stupid.
Mr.City said:
Ugh, a lot of those are just ugly. I don't think I saw a single correct pull. I personally can't critique too much because my form under the bar stinks (I have left arm flexibility issues as well as just a shitty front squat ability, so I generally finish with the bar almost all the way up to my full height, 6'4), but my form on the way up is awesome which is why despite my shortcomings I could always clean a very respectable amount (around 400lbs).
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Oh man, Tricep Kickbacks make me feel like a pussy. 10lb-15lb dumbells and I want to cry :lol
Anton Sugar
Member
BigGreenMat said:
Yeah, the high reps aren't really anything I've ever been into. There are some schools of thought into them (Crossfit, etc.)
Yeah, those were all terrible.
How much do you weigh? 400 lbs is pretty awesome, but I'm assuming you meant full clean? Could you jerk it? Just curious, congrats, that's nice weight.
Captain Glanton
Banned
A 400lb clean is very, very impressive.
Don't bother with kickbacks. Really. Dips and your barbell/dumbbell presses will give you all the triceps work you need.BlueTsunami said:
Captain Glanton
Banned
dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dips dipsRSTEIN said:
Decline skullcrushers can be good, although they're a hassle with heavy weight.
Anton Sugar
Member
RSTEIN said:
Definition has nothing to do with exercise selection. Why would something that forces you to use a very submaximal weight help a muscle grow?
Speaking of exhaustion, I think the latest routine I was doing was seriously killing me. I have been working on a pretty heavy fat loss weight lifting routine (put together by Alwyn Cosgrove) with high reps and lots of supersets, but it absolutely exhausted me and, while I did see some benefits, it wasn't worth it in the long run. Too many complex lifts with two high of reps and not enough rest. These were the workouts that I was doing for the past couple of weeks:
Giant Set 1 (no rest between exercises, do all 4 and then rest 60 seconds before starting again):
Deadlifts: 4 x 10-12
Explosive Push-Ups: 4 x 10-12
Bulgarian Split Squat: 4 x 10-12
Dumbbell rows: 4 x 10-12
Giant Set 2 (same deal, no rest until all four exercises, then rest 60 seconds)
Deadlift off of box: 2 x 20
Dumbbell Bench Press: 2 x 20
Walking lunges: 2 x 20
Cable seated row: 2 x 20
Workout 2:
Same deals with the sets and rep ranges, so I won't type all of that in.
Giant Set 1
Front Squat
Underhand Lat Pulldown
Step Up
Dumbbell push press
Giant Set 2
Squat
Lat Pulldown
Step up
Dumbbell shoulder press
Now I would do these 2 times per week each and after a week and a half I was so exhausted I could hardly move, even though I was eating and sleeping just as much as usual. If you want to try a massively exhausting conditioning routine that seems to work, go for this, for me, I've started Rippetoe/Mad Cow's routine and am enjoying it much more with the heavier weights and greater concentration. I really understand now why you really don't want to rep more than 5-8 on deadlifts, your form goes to crap.
Anyway I just thought I'd share and see what some of the experts thought of that workout I was doing, which I think is pretty excessive.
Giant Set 1 (no rest between exercises, do all 4 and then rest 60 seconds before starting again):
Deadlifts: 4 x 10-12
Explosive Push-Ups: 4 x 10-12
Bulgarian Split Squat: 4 x 10-12
Dumbbell rows: 4 x 10-12
Giant Set 2 (same deal, no rest until all four exercises, then rest 60 seconds)
Deadlift off of box: 2 x 20
Dumbbell Bench Press: 2 x 20
Walking lunges: 2 x 20
Cable seated row: 2 x 20
Workout 2:
Same deals with the sets and rep ranges, so I won't type all of that in.
Giant Set 1
Front Squat
Underhand Lat Pulldown
Step Up
Dumbbell push press
Giant Set 2
Squat
Lat Pulldown
Step up
Dumbbell shoulder press
Now I would do these 2 times per week each and after a week and a half I was so exhausted I could hardly move, even though I was eating and sleeping just as much as usual. If you want to try a massively exhausting conditioning routine that seems to work, go for this, for me, I've started Rippetoe/Mad Cow's routine and am enjoying it much more with the heavier weights and greater concentration. I really understand now why you really don't want to rep more than 5-8 on deadlifts, your form goes to crap.
Anyway I just thought I'd share and see what some of the experts thought of that workout I was doing, which I think is pretty excessive.
RSTEIN said:
Please back this claim up with documentation. What exactly is happening on a scientific level when you "sculpt" your triceps by doing kickbacks? How is this different than what happens when you do any other tricep movement? "Definition" is a vaguely defined combination of muscle size and your body fat levels. Resistance training just breaks down muscle tissue so it can be built back stronger. It doesn't rewrite your biology or your genetics. I don't understand why people insist that you should do one exercise to make you swole while another makes you shreddedded.
There are basically four things that can happen:
1) A muscle can get bigger.
2) A muscle can get smaller.
3) You can get fatter.
4) You can get leaner.
That's all there is. Sculpting, toning, and other buzzwords are just vague combinations of the above.
Anton Sugar
Member
Brendonia said:
Well, Cosgrove is fairly respected in the strength training community, but that routine definitely seems a more conditioning/Crossfit/metcon type workout. Perhaps you should have scaled it down a bit but like you said...if you weren't enjoying it or feeling it, and you found something else, more power to you. I'm using Rippetoe's Texas Method (Mad Cow has a similar program) and I'm enjoying it, but I also need to get some conditioning in, so I may use at least one day a week for conditioning. We'll see. Let us know how you're progressing with the Rip/Mad Cow. Which routine are you doing? I did the Mad Cow Intermediate for a while with great results.
Anton Sugar
Member
Slo said:
Yeah, this is what I don't understand in the BB community. I don't have anything against BB in the slightest...but mechanically making an exercise harder doesn't mean it's any better.
Slo said:
I have no documentation or scientific knowhow. I'm just a lay person trying to get my head around everything. I'm a big newbie on what so far has been an awesome journey.
I have read numerous articles, interviews and documentaries on body building and body builders - just as I'm sure everyone in this thread has. I tend to get obsessed over things when I start them :lol I have a binder with magazine clippings/journal articles that I keep - it's literally 100 pages of diagrams, exercises, etc. There is a very clear distinction between strength training and body building - I think everyone can agree on that. No bodybuilder would claim to be stronger than an olympic lifter. Likewise, no olympic lifter would care about defining or working on a small group of muscles just for appearance.
I agree with you 100% about all those buzzwords. However, I would disagree with anyone who says there isn't a difference between training for definition vs. training for strength. As Schwarzenegger says in Pumping Iron (just to keep it to something we can all relate to), a body builder is a sculptor. There are certain excercise that will help zero in on a specific part of the body/muscle group. All I said was that kickbacks are really great for this.
I'm not trying to get in a big argument. There are individuals (Captain Glanton is a perfect example of this, and I believe Mr. Snrub as well) that aim for strength - presses, dips, pulls, cleans, etc. If you do these types of exercises all day long you're body is going to look very different than someone who uses dumbells/trains specific muscle groups. Again, look at Glanton. He looks like someone who would perform at the Strongest Man, not Mr. Olympia. I'm sure he doesn't give a flying fuck about how big his triceps are. Just different approaches/goals, that's all.
Bodybuilders are sculptors in that they are primarily concerned with aesthetics. This means that the worry about muscle proportion and balance, and they put a priority on being extraordinarily lean. Power lifters have different goals, and different priorities. You'll likely never hear a power lifter complain that his shoulders are too huge so he's going to stop working on them.
That has little to do with whether or not kickbacks are an effective exercise to stress the triceps You could argue that they are the best movement in the world for stressing the triceps, but I think you'd have a hard time arguing that kickbacks make the muscle "pretty" while other movements give you ugly triceps and pointy knees.
That has little to do with whether or not kickbacks are an effective exercise to stress the triceps You could argue that they are the best movement in the world for stressing the triceps, but I think you'd have a hard time arguing that kickbacks make the muscle "pretty" while other movements give you ugly triceps and pointy knees.
I sort of agree.Slo said:
The main thing you're missing is that a muscle can grew in size in several different ways, granted, by and large, in most people, bigger muscle = stronger muscle, but it's not quite that simple.
But regarding triceps kickback, yeah, I would not waste my time on them, you can get huge arms with skull crushers and weighted dips.
Slo said:
Again, I'm not saying kickbacks are superior to dips or they're some magical excercise that will make you "pretty." They're just kickbacks for christ's sake :lol However, my own personal experience and research speaks volumes about kickbacks. Glanton said skip kickbacks for dips, and I said "no!" He's coming from strength training, I'm coming from body building, that's all (I think!).
I'm not sure why we're arguing about this
???? You're doing kickbacks????RSTEIN said:Again, I'm not saying kickbacks are superior to dips or they're some magical excercise that will make you "pretty." They're just kickbacks for christ's sake :lol However, my own personal experience and research speaks volumes about kickbacks. Glanton said skip kickbacks for dips, and I said "no!" He's coming from strength training, I'm coming from body building, that's all (I think!).
I'm not sure why we're arguing about this
LAME RSTEIN. VERY LAME DUDE.
:lol :lol
Mr. Snrub said:
Yup, working on the intermediate program right now. I love it after two workouts so we will see where it goes from here, but it looks to be a good one. I was having some issues with my shoulder where heavy weights were difficult, so I decided to put a bit more emphasis on getting leaner, hence the more conditioning type workouts, but it's not something that I enjoy, so what's the point? I just need to do more HIIT now that I'm scaling back on the conditioning/OMG I want to puke after my 4th giant set that I was doing. If you are looking for something like that, though, for conditioning I think it's a good routine, just difficult if you use the correct weights and really push yourself. I'll see where I go with the madcow method. It's nice to have the pre-calculated spreadsheet and everything so that I can continue to easily track myself, and I'll keep making updates on progress.
I just wish it was a little easier to lose the little fat I have left on my belly. Nobody seems to notice it but me but it drives me nuts. The sad thing is, I know the answers, and it's getting rid of the alcohol/beer and trying to run a bit more, so don't cry for me ha-ha. I'm also moving in the next month which means the end of my dek hockey and basketball leagues, so I'll have some more flexibility in my schedule than I would when those were on, because they pretty much took up anything on Tuesday and Thursday nights, couldn't do a hard workout then play a full game up to a high level, so I never did anything before them on those days. Now I will be able to do whatever, until I join more sports leagues in my new city because that is destined to happen anyway.
lil smoke said:
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful :lol
Brendonia said:
Haha, I have this problem (or maybe body image problem) too. I keep saying to my wife - "look at my little belly here!" And she's like waaaa? I think this is probably the hardest spot to lose on your body - the tire/obliques. When you start to work out the 'surface layer' peels off naturally but for those with pear shaped bodies the obliques can be damn frustrating. I've found that running has really done a lot plus I do about 400-500 crunches a day (varying between reverse crunch/bicycle crunch/standard/elbow-to-knee thingies/etc etc). They're almost gone but I can see them and they bug the hell out of me!
Captain Glanton
Banned
What is this "bodybuilding" you speak of?
Anton Sugar
Member
Brendonia said:
Nice, all of my lifts went up a great deal on the Intermediate and it is very convenient having everything mapped out for you, I agree. I gained about 15 lbs in about two months on it, and while I hate saying "pure muscle", my bodyfat stayed pretty much the same.
Stick with it and like you said, I bet if you cut that stuff out of your diet, you'd be a lot leaner, especially on a program like Mad Cow. Me...I don't mind having a little fat around my stomach. It's too easy for me to lose weight, so it's not a concern.
Anton Sugar
Member
Captain Glanton said:
Scholars maintain that the translation was lost, hundreds of years ago.
Qwerty710710
a child left behind
What muscles do power cleans work on the most? I would like to try it out one day when I get stronger, I've seen done before it looks very demanding.
Anton Sugar
Member
Slo said:Researcher Mariusz Pudzianowski escavates a fossilized bosu ball from a historic bodybuilding burial site:
:lol :lol
Anton Sugar
Member
Qwerty710710 said:
Everything? Mostly the posterior chain--hamstrings, glutes, and back. They're more of a power building exercise than a muscle building. But if you take a look at olympic lifters...they're no slouch when it comes to physiques. Any sort of pulls are great for your hams, lower back, upper back, and traps. The shock/impact absorption and quick movement also develops a lot of smaller muscles.
Pyrros Dimas, Greek national sports hero
"Yo brah, what do you do for your tear drop quads? Brah? Brah? Brah?"
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Tommy Kono, Japanese-American who set many Olympic world records AND won Mr. Universe twice, among other bodybuilding competitions
David Rigert, Soviet wonder
Olympic lifters usually have extremely strong and developed legs/back.
Anton Sugar
Member
RSTEIN said:
Need more kickbacks.
BigGreenMat
Member
Mr. Snrub said:
I hover somewhere between 225 and 240 depending on the time of year. I can't clean 400 RIGHT now, but I could before our season started. I honestly don't do jerk very often so I am not sure what I could do now. I know I can jerk over 300 at least. Oh and I most DEFINITELY use wriststraps for heavy clean. Without them my weights are quite a bit lower.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Man I'm amazed at how strong I'm getting, even though I'm losing weight. I'm so terrified of eating anything that would result to getting pimples. :lol
But anyway, I'm a thin guy as it is. Just muscular and decently strong, but man. Over the past weeks of doing flat dumbell presses, I'm able to push up the 100 pound dumbells without someone helping me getting them up. Also, there's this chest press exercise where you sit slightly upright and you have these handlebars to press forward. You can do single arm presses or do both, whatever. It isn't a machine. You load the plates on each side near the handlebars. Today I just put four 45 pound plates on each side, which is 360 pounds. Got 4 reps. I don't know what's going on. :lol
But anyway, I'm a thin guy as it is. Just muscular and decently strong, but man. Over the past weeks of doing flat dumbell presses, I'm able to push up the 100 pound dumbells without someone helping me getting them up. Also, there's this chest press exercise where you sit slightly upright and you have these handlebars to press forward. You can do single arm presses or do both, whatever. It isn't a machine. You load the plates on each side near the handlebars. Today I just put four 45 pound plates on each side, which is 360 pounds. Got 4 reps. I don't know what's going on. :lol
I'm feeling a little better, but something is fucking with my digestive system. I think it may be a parasite or something because I'm not getting stomach aches like one would with bacteria and the low energy and appetite could be due to that. I think I have enough energy to work out as well since I'm not doing anything else today.
Anton Sugar
Member
Sounds like hammer strength. I wouldn't take the weight you're using TOO seriously--but at the end of my squat or deadlift workouts when my lower back is fatigued, I used the hammer rows as an alternate to bent rows, if I don't feel like pull ups.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Ok, next time I'll do dips instead of kickbacks :lol
Also, I'm surprised at how heavy I can do Tricep Barbell presses. I remember at first I was strugling at doing 135lb with regular Bench Pressing but now I'm doing that weight for my triceps. Also my arms are getting pretty beefy, which is nice. I was also flexing yesterday and I can already kind of see middle deltoid separation, my back is getting defined too.
Also, I'm surprised at how heavy I can do Tricep Barbell presses. I remember at first I was strugling at doing 135lb with regular Bench Pressing but now I'm doing that weight for my triceps. Also my arms are getting pretty beefy, which is nice. I was also flexing yesterday and I can already kind of see middle deltoid separation, my back is getting defined too.
funny that ppl are talking about tricep kickbacks
my brother is home from school for the summer, so we are doing arms yesterday, doing tricep/bicep supersets
and toward the end of the session my bro was like i'm going to do some kickbacks, and i'm like wtf fuck this im doing skull crushers
and my brother is pretty strong, reps out 225 on close grip for an easy 10, but for some reason swears by kickbacks, idk
my brother is home from school for the summer, so we are doing arms yesterday, doing tricep/bicep supersets
and toward the end of the session my bro was like i'm going to do some kickbacks, and i'm like wtf fuck this im doing skull crushers
and my brother is pretty strong, reps out 225 on close grip for an easy 10, but for some reason swears by kickbacks, idk
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Well, I personally feel the triceps really get pumped when I do kickbacks which is a great feeling. I haven't been doing them long enough to swear by them though (since I've mostly been doing dips before this). But holy shit at 225 Skullcrusher
4X45 is pretty good on the hammer strength. I forget what that one is called. I did it this morning.Jason's Ultimatum said:
Yes the weight that you can push on those things can be misleading, but it is definitely a good job when you get up to 4X45. Be sure to keep your form on that thing. Use the belt, keep you ass and back pinned down.
Try bursting the weight up, and slowly slowly releasing down. It feels really good. Do more reps/less weight and it will become seriously difficult.
Captain Glanton
Banned
I think he meant "close (grip bench)" with 225.BlueTsunami said:Well, I personally feel the triceps really get pumped when I do kickbacks which is a great feeling. I haven't been doing them long enough to swear by them though (since I've mostly been doing dips before this). But holy shit at 225 Skullcrusher
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Captain Glanton said:
Ahhh, I was about to say. If I even attempted skullcrushers at that weight, I think my triceps would explode or atleast rip to shreds.
Captain Glanton
Banned
Don't kid yourself, RSTEIN. If those bodybuilders got the chance, they'd eat you and everyone you care about.
Anton Sugar
Member
Captain Glanton said:
Wolverine lovers are excellent sources of raw testosterone.
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