Support NeoGAF

[Anton Sugar]

so question for you rippetoe guys. On your "days off" what exactly are you suppose to do? Can we light jog? walk?

Just don't do anything that's going to negatively affect your gains. I'd recommend not doing anything at all. Remember, whatever resources your body has to use on anything else, those resources will not be readily available for repair of your muscles, recovery processes, and natural bodily processes. Just take it easy. Trust me--once you start moving more weight/it gets tougher for you, you aren't going to want to do anything on your off days. Just do the program like he says.

 

[Anton Sugar]

So I have been doing this 'Mass Gain' routine that I got from bodybuilding.com for the last 3 weeks.

This is the routine: (I have made some of my own modifications) *everything is to failure
-squats 1x8 -
-dumbell lunges 1x8
-leg curls 1x8 -
- leg extensions 1x8
-calf raises 1x8
-weighted pullups/dips 1x8
-barbell shoulder press 1x8
-overhead lat pullovers 1x8
-bench press 1x8
-seated rows 1x8
-barbell bicep curls 1x8
-skull crushers 1x8
-abs

it's a 3-day routine (mon,wed,fri) and apparently it's supposed to help you gain size and a spotter/partner is mandatory to push through those last few reps. i do the workout on my own and i have found that I actually do about 3 sets each of a few of the workouts. instead of putting on size, I have actually gotten more cut (i suspect it's because I burn so many calories). I'm starting to get kind of bored of this and there are back-specific workouts that I feel like I'm neglecting. The weight pullups have helped, I can now do about 15 regular pullups with ease and I can do about 30 regular dips pretty easily. The weighted dips feel great and my squatting power is starting to get better. I NEVER used to squat and I don't think I could EVER go back to a routine where I neglected squats.

I have not added deadlifts to my workout yet because I'm actually somewhat intimidated by them. I don't want to do them wrong. My bench press has gotten a little better. I can put up 225 for 5, but I'd like to improve on this greatly.

- what i really want to work on is stamina. I'm talking like, I want to hit the chest and shoulders and get STRONGER throughout the workout. I want some really good muscle stamina. What is the best way to achieve this? The routine I'm doing now does kick my ass, but I feel like I want to hit my muscles even harder. I think my biggest problem is I don't have a partner. Do you guys think this routine is good for building stamina or should I go back to a split routine? I also need some good suggestions for abs.

The routine you're doing looks like a standard HIT routine. Now, I do not really believe in the "HIT" method...but if you're going to do it, remember this: you are only supposed to do ONE set per exercise. You should not PHYSICALLY able to do one more. That means, your 8th reps may need some assistance from a spotter (a "forced" rep) or, at the very least, if you even WANTED to do a 9th rep, it would be IMPOSSIBLE--no questions asked. HIT believes that training the muscle to absolute failure is "high intensity". Look up HIT on the web for more info.

As far as muscular stamina...you need high reps. High reps builds muscular stamina. Is that your goal? What are your goals?

 

[reilo]

Quick, besides calf raises and squats, any other good workouts to target calves? I want to increase my vertical.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Sorry, I don't mean to focus on you, but I really don't understand this. Why on earth would you bother with deadlifts, or even lifting in general, if you didn't want to get stronger? You do realize that getting stronger on the lifts is only going to help your goal, no matter WHAT your goal is.

Ah no I hear you, you're right. I want to get stronger, it's not the main focus is what I meant sorry. Basically just meant the focus of my routine/diet isn't to put on muscle/strength, not that I don't care about it.

My strength goes up, just very slowly. It's kind of a bummer sometimes. Trust me I want to be a lot stronger. Then again I could just be doing a poor job.

 

[reilo]

Ah no I hear you, you're right. I want to get stronger, it's not the main focus is what I meant sorry. Basically just meant the focus of my routine/diet isn't to put on muscle/strength, not that I don't care about it.

My strength goes up, just very slowly. It's kind of a bummer sometimes. Trust me I want to be a lot stronger. Then again I could just be doing a poor job.

Sounds like you want to get stronger but not bigger. Why?

 

[Spiritreaver]

Sounds like you want to get stronger but not bigger. Why?

I'm losing weight. My main goal at the moment is to maintain what mass I have really, unless there's a better route. Right now I'm cutting down the fat while trying my best to maintain muscle. After I hit those goals I'm going to bulk.

I want size and strength, however the former isn't really feasible right now, but It's part of my goals once I get to that point. That is unless you have some suggestions. I'm still pretty new to this thing.

 

[Ace 8095]

I'm losing weight. My main goal at the moment is to maintain what mass I have really, unless there's a better route. Right now I'm cutting down the fat while trying my best to maintain muscle. After I hit those goals I'm going to bulk.

I want size and strength, however the former isn't really feasible right now, but It's part of my goals once I get to that point. That is unless you have some suggestions. I'm still pretty new to this thing.

There is NO reason why a person who benches 135 should not be able to follow linear progression. Next time bench 137.5, then 140, then 142.5, and so on. If you do this on all your lifts, you will get stronger. I always leave the gym lifting more than I did the last time, so you can too.

 

[MrToughPants]

Just did 110-170-210-170 walking lunges outside for about 30 reps per set with about 5 full squats & behind the neck push press in sequence...I feel like fucking shit right now.

edit

Too fucking lazy to bring the weights back in too...i'll do that later when I work my shoulders :lol

 

[Spiritreaver]

There is NO reason why a person who benches 135 should not be able to follow linear progression. Next time bench 137.5, then 140, then 142.5, and so on. If you do this on all your lifts, you will get stronger. I always leave the gym lifting more than I did the last time, so you can too.

Thanks, I hear ya. Sorry if I'm not conveying myself too well, but I always go into the gym putting in as much effort as I can, and keep myself challenged. Either with trying to put out a new rep, or a new weight. Don't wanna make it sound like I'm being careless about my strength progress.

The first day I tried 135 was great. It was really a big mental barrier for me, jumping from the smaller plates to the big ones. I was convinced it was going be hard, but I got under there and repped it out and when I hit 5 I was ecstatic, I almost forgot to thank my spot lol.

 

[JB1981]

couldn't stay away from the gym to rest(wanted to try Chichikovs 3 day split)
I have never tried power cleans before and holly shit fuck! what a great fucking lift, I love that I can feel a rush through out my entire body..but I can't seem to add that exploding jump at the end?

are you guys exploding at the end like this?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6TlbDQUWs0s

or are you just coming straight up with no jump?

Jesus that is awesome. Are you really supposed to come off the floor like that? I've never done power cleans. Damn.

 

[JB1981]

Just did 110-170-210-170 walking lunges outside for about 30 reps per set with about 5 full squats & behind the neck push press in sequence...I feel like fucking shit right now.

edit

Too fucking lazy to bring the weights back in too...i'll do that later when I work my shoulders :lol

how are you lunging with that much weight? a stacked barbell? that is some pretty impressive shit right there, dude.

also, i've read that behind the neck push presses are not good for you. Any truth to this?k

Mr. Snubs: I don't have any particular goals. I want to get stronger and I want to put on more lean muscle. I am not interested in becoming 'BIG.' I feel like right now I look pretty fit , especially when I have a good pump at the gym. Right now I'm 5'11 172lbs, with very little body fat. Basically, I enjoy lifting and I have made some very big gains in the last 2 months. I just want to continue to work out hard and have fun doing it. I also want to venture into some workouts that I've never done before. Mainly I want to start doing deadlifts and power cleans. I really don't care about the weight I put up, I just want to maintain form. Do you think a split routine is good for someone like me? I'm thinking I don't want to do a split routine, though....

 

[Anton Sugar]

couldn't stay away from the gym to rest(wanted to try Chichikovs 3 day split)
I have never tried power cleans before and holly shit fuck! what a great fucking lift, I love that I can feel a rush through out my entire body..but I can't seem to add that exploding jump at the end?

are you guys exploding at the end like this?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6TlbDQUWs0s

or are you just coming straight up with no jump?

The jump is an exaggeration. You don't want too much of a "donkey kick" at the end. The jump IS supposed to symbolize the explosiveness of the movement--as the weight gets heavier, you won't be able to jump.

 

[Anton Sugar]

how are you lunging with that much weight? a stacked barbell? that is some pretty impressive shit right there, dude.

also, i've read that behind the neck push presses are not good for you. Any truth to this?

Most people can't do behind the neck presses because their flexibility sucks, mostly because they've spent so much time bench. If you work on your shoulder flexibility and rotator cuff strength, behind the neck presses are fine.

 

[Zoe]

I'm pretty sure I saw this asked a while ago, but now I can't find it.

Is it normal/okay to feel it in your lower back a little when you do squats?

 

[MrToughPants]

I'm pretty sure I saw this asked a while ago, but now I can't find it.

Is it normal/okay to feel it in your lower back a little when you do squats?

Doing full squats eliminates back strain (like front squats) and displaces that load elsewheres like your core, glutes, hams and quads. Your knees will extend past your toes but it's normal on full squats and there is no pain. You could wrap your knees with bands if you have knee problems.

I found a video on youtube of some black dude doing climbing sets of 200-400+lbs narrow stance full squats ass to the ground, best form i've seen so far. Wish I could find that video.

 

[Ace 8095]

also, i've read that behind the neck push presses are not good for you. Any truth to this?k

"The behind the neck press places the humeral head in just about the worst position it can assume under a load. If it is to be used in a program safely, it has to be done with such light weights that it becomes almost a waste of time if strength is the goal." Mark Rippetoe

 

[MrToughPants]

"The behind the neck press places the humeral head in just about the worst position it can assume under a load. If it is to be used in a program safely, it has to be done with such light weights that it becomes almost a waste of time if strength is the goal." Mark Rippetoe

:lol I hope that's a joke quote.

 

[mr stroke]

Doing full squats eliminates back strain (like front squats) and displaces that load elsewheres like your core, glutes, hams and quads. Your knees will extend past your toes but it's normal on full squats and there is no pain. You could wrap your knees with bands if you have knee problems.

I found a video on youtube of some black dude doing climbing sets of 200-400+lbs narrow stance full squats ass to the ground, best form i've seen so far. Wish I could find that video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=otqbG5CbZ7E
:0

 

[MrToughPants]

Here are some heavy behind the neck presses from two of the most elite people in the strongman/powerlifting world.

Pudzianowski 200-450lbs behind the neck push press

Ed Coan 400lbs behind the neck press

 

[mr stroke]

Here are some heavy behind the neck presses from two of the most elite people in the strongman/powerlifting world.

Pudzianowski 200-450lbs behind the neck push press

I was wowed at first and then he said its only the warm up:lol

what a beast :0

 

[Chichikov]

couldn't stay away from the gym to rest(wanted to try Chichikovs 3 day split)
I have never tried power cleans before and holly shit fuck! what a great fucking lift, I love that I can feel a rush through out my entire body..but I can't seem to add that exploding jump at the end?

are you guys exploding at the end like this?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6TlbDQUWs0s

or are you just coming straight up with no jump?

Yeah.
This video, while demonstrating very good form, is done with very light weight, in reality, you're not going to get so much air, but yeah, you should think about jumping.

And I totally agree, power clean are one of my favorites lifts, you just explode with adrenaline after completing a set.

 

[Chichikov]

:lol I hope that's a joke quote.

Why?
Sounds about right to me.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Quick question about body fat percentage.

I'm 6"1 and I weigh 75k, what should my % be or does it vary?

It's currently 13.4%

 

[Ace 8095]

Quick question about body fat percentage.

I'm 6"1 and I weigh 75k, what should my % be or does it vary?

It's currently 13.4%

Why does it matter? You are thin and should focus on gaining muscle, not trying to lose weight.

 

[Chichikov]

Quick question about body fat percentage.

I'm 6"1 and I weigh 75k, what should my % be or does it vary?

It's currently 13.4%

I'm not sure I understand your question.
Your body fat can vary, and you cannot figure it from your weight and height alone.
And generally, 13% is not too bad.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

I should have clarified.

I'm thin and I work out, but I find it hard to get the toned appearance.

Do I need to build more muscle or lower my body fat percentage?

 

[mr stroke]

Yeah.
This video, while demonstrating very good form, is done with very light weight.

shit I was sweating doing 115:lol
I think I was doing it wrong though, as I can deadlift about 315 lb so the first motion was easy just getting the bar up was a bitch. Then I read this post over at Bodybuilding.com

"The 2nd pull ends when the body hits triple extension and the shoulders are shrugged - the arms should still be straight at the end of the 2nd pull. Do not pull with your arms, power cleans are not jumping-upright-row-reverse-curls"


It sound like I should be exploding in the middle of the lift thus creating the jump? almost like a jumping shrug?

 

[MrToughPants]

Why?
Sounds about right to me.

Some people take Rippedtoes as the gospel.

 

[Chichikov]

I should have clarified.

I'm thin and I work out, but I find it hard to get the toned appearance.

Do I need to build more muscle or lower my body fat percentage?

You don't need to do anything.
It all depends on your goals.
I think it's easier to get bigger muscles than to get to a single digit body fat percentage.

shit I was sweating doing 115:lol
I think I was doing it wrong though, as I can deadlift about 315 lb so the first motion was easy just getting the bar up was a bitch. Then I read this post over at Bodybuilding.com

"The 2nd pull ends when the body hits triple extension and the shoulders are shrugged - the arms should still be straight at the end of the 2nd pull. Do not pull with your arms, power cleans are not jumping-upright-row-reverse-curls"


It sound like I should be exploding in the middle of the lift thus creating the jump? almost like a jumping shrug?

You should definitely explode.
And I don't know if thinking about doing jump shrug is a good idea, while you do in fact should (and probably already do) shrug your shoulders, the power to get the bar up should come mostly from your legs and back.
And it is pretty common that beginners concentrating on their traps will end up doing vertical rows which exactly what you don't want to be doing on the clean.

And don't worry so much about the weight for now, power clean is a very technical lift, if you can deadlift 315 you should see quick advances once you become more comfortable with the movement.

Some people take Rippedtoes as the gospel.

Well, I'm not one of them (my familiarity with Rippetoe's work is superficial at best) but I've never liked behind the back presses.
You disagree?
Fair enough, I don't claim to have to be a definitive authority on everything strength related, far from it actually.
But let's not turn this into an ipse dixit centric argument.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

It all depends on your goals.

I think it's easier to get bigger muscles than to get to a single digit body fat percentage

So building muscle will improve my toning without the need for weight loss?

 

[Chichikov]

So building muscle will improve my toning without the need for weight loss?

I don't know what "toning" means.
I honestly don't.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I don't know what "toning" means.
I honestly don't.

Definition.

 

[MrToughPants]

Well, I'm not one of them, but I've never liked behind the back presses, you disagree?

I actually prefer them over military/shoulder presses. Never had problems with the lift itself, everyone has preferences and styles. I just don't like how the behind the neck press is shunned or avoided by even " powerlifting experts" because it can cause injuries. While, technically, all complex lifts can be dangerous. Use proper form and loading weight shouldn't be a problem. Sort of hypocritical to say, perfect your squat/dead form but avoid this lift because it's dangerous it stresses your joints with bad form.

 

[Chichikov]

Definition.

Definition is a pretty vague and subjective term.
What most people associate it with is a combination of both muscle size and fat.
Generally speaking, bigger muscles would look more "defined" with higher body fat than smaller ones.
But in some specific areas (mostly abs) you need to have very low body fat to get these results.

Now, I think you have aesthetic goals in mind, while I personally don't think it's the best way to approach fitness, I do respect this position.
Why don't you tell me exactly what you're trying to achieve?

 

[Chichikov]

I actually prefer them over military/shoulder presses. Never had problems with the lift itself, everyone has preferences and styles. I just don't like how the behind the neck press is shunned or avoided by even " powerlifting experts" because it can cause injuries. While, technically, all complex lifts can be dangerous. Use proper form and loading weight shouldn't be a problem.

The problem (in my mind) is that it's more dangerous than regular press without being more effective.
And for that reason I don't recommend it.

Hypocrisy has nothing to do with it.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Why don't you tell me exactly what you're trying to achieve?

Definition in the abductors and obliques.

I do keep fit by the way, I run for 30 to 45 minutes every other night and row for 25.

 

[reilo]

You guys recommend any good tools to measure body fat %?

 

[Chichikov]

Definition in the abductors and obliques.

I'm going to go a limb here and guess you actually want washboard abs .
You need low body fat for that, single digit for most people.

 

[Chichikov]

You guys recommend any good tools to measure body fat %?

No, it's not ideal, but it's easy, cheap, and if you care about tracking personal changes it's good enough.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

You need low body fat for that, single digit for most people.

That's what I thought. I'll need to change my diet.

 

[reilo]

No, it's not ideal, but it's easy, cheap, and if you care about tracking personal changes it's good enough.

What's it called?

 

[Chichikov]

What's it called?

Caliper?

 

[reilo]

Caliper?

Thanks. Where is the best area to measure? Upper abs?

 

[Buba Big Guns]

Does anyone know any good exercises that workout the shoulders without using any equipment?

 

[Sol..]

Does anyone know any good exercises that workout the shoulders without using any equipment?

push ups
pull ups
dips
?

 

[Anton Sugar]

I actually prefer them over military/shoulder presses. Never had problems with the lift itself, everyone has preferences and styles. I just don't like how the behind the neck press is shunned or avoided by even " powerlifting experts" because it can cause injuries. While, technically, all complex lifts can be dangerous. Use proper form and loading weight shouldn't be a problem. Sort of hypocritical to say, perfect your squat/dead form but avoid this lift because it's dangerous it stresses your joints with bad form.

The Rippetoe quote is "true". However, the best explanation I've heard is that if you can do them safely and without discomfort, do them. If you can't, they could probably be pretty damaging to your shoulders.

Also note that many Olympic lifters perform behind the neck presses. HOWEVER...once you stop training for general fitness and begin training for sport, for competitions, health is a SECONDARY concern. You put your body in compromising positions and under compromising loads in order to be the best. Behind the neck presses are no better than standard presses. For some people, with strong and flexible shoulders, it is easier for them to get the bar in the correct pressing path. For others, it hurts like hell. Most people don't need to do them...but they don't deserve the demonized reputation that they've gained.

 

[Chichikov]

Thanks. Where is the best area to measure? Upper abs?

There are many ways to calculate it.

This is a pretty useful (insofar as body fat measurement is a useful tool, which in my mind is not so much) calculator -
http://www.linear-software.com/online.html

 

[Marvie_3]

Whats the best way anyone has found to strengthen the torso and burn stomach fat? I eat a good diet, run several times a week and am pretty tone everywhere else but my midsection is still a problem. I know my abs are strong but just can't seem to slim down. Any exercises that work better than others?

 

[jacf29]

I work at dominos and most days I can work and eat decent foods. But friday and saturday I don't have enough time to make food and have to eat lunch and dinner while at work.

The buffalo chicken kickers seem like an alright option (out of what dominos has). Would eating 2 of these a day two times a week hamper my exercise efforts? Here is the link to nutrition info for them. *There are 10 servings in each meal of chicken kickers*

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/foods-from-dominos/7148/2

 

[methos75]

I do behind the back presses every week, but only as a finishing excercise so I don't use much weight. I usually do seated front presses first, followed by either Laterial raises or European Raises, then front raises, rear flyes, followed by upright rows, and too finish, iusually throw two 45's on a bar in the smith machine, and do behind the neck military presses.