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Official Fitness Thread of Whipping Your Butt into Shape

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DarthWufei said:
So I got lectured for about 20 minutes on my squat form today. I guess it was really bad. All the guy's advice just made it feel really awkward though, so I don't know... it was a lot easier to go lower and keep myself from leaning froward though. He basically had me rest the bar lower, more on my back, wear a belt, and look more upwards than straight ahead.

If anything it was a huge confidence knocker. I didn't ask for his help, he kinda just called me over and started lecturing me rather loudly. Not that I mind, I could use the advice. I just wish I could've seen him squat before he started correcting me. He looked like Captain Glanton though... scary guy. :(
That's a bit of a warning point. And yes, definitely be on the lookout for his own form. At the least, he sounds like a bad teacher. I didn't leave home today, so it wasn't me.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
Here's the thing you gotta remember about the trainers at health clubs/gyms: most don't know shit, and machines are recommended because you don't have to have a spotter (i.e. trainer), they're fast (more people get to use them=better business), and they're quiet ("Free weights are loud and disruptive to customers").

Read the OP thoroughly and then ask questions if you have them. Free weights all the way! What are your goals?

My goal is bulking up just a little, and the guy pretty much told me that for the first couple of weeks, I should do machines only and going more or less light and not too centered on lifting, and after that they will make a program with free weights. Sounds reasonable to me, because I've never done that and also last two months for me have been almost physically inactive.
 

aznpxdd

Member
Free weights FTW. I've cut out all machines from my workout, its so much more rewarding with free weights and requires a lot more concentration.
 
DarthWufei said:
So I got lectured for about 20 minutes on my squat form today. I guess it was really bad. All the guy's advice just made it feel really awkward though, so I don't know... it was a lot easier to go lower and keep myself from leaning froward though. He basically had me rest the bar lower, more on my back, wear a belt, and look more upwards than straight ahead.

If anything it was a huge confidence knocker. I didn't ask for his help, he kinda just called me over and started lecturing me rather loudly. Not that I mind, I could use the advice. I just wish I could've seen him squat before he started correcting me. He looked like Captain Glanton though... scary guy. :(

:lol

Regardless of his Kratos-like appearance, next time ask him for some reasoning behind his suggestions.

"Put the bar lower"-This is legitimate advice, for a low-bar squat. I do low bar squats. Powerlifters exaggerate this to minimize the distance between the bar and their hips (mechanical advantage here); powerlifting organizations even have rules as to how low you can place the bar. If you're doing high bar squats, it doesn't apply.

"Wear a belt"-Bullshit, unless you have back problems or are attempting a repetition max, belts are detrimental.

"Look upwards"-I think this is the old stigma because of worries about falling forward when you have that much weight on your back. Looking up is not necessary and with beginners can lead to doing a "leg press with a barbell on your back", which does not utilize hip drive. But again, it depends on the type of squat you're doing. Olympic high bar squats don't use much hip drive, so it's not a big deal there.
 
J. M. Romeo said:
My goal is bulking up just a little, and the guy pretty much told me that for the first couple of weeks, I should do machines only and going more or less light and not too centered on lifting, and after that they will make a program with free weights. Sounds reasonable to me, because I've never done that and also last two months for me have been almost physically inactive.

Sorry man, sounds like bullshit to me--maybe I'm just paranoid, but always remember that trainers need more money and the longer they can keep you around and dependent on them, the more they get. In addition, machines will NOT prepare you for weights. Even 135 lbs. on a smith machine bench press is NOT 135 lbs. on the barbell bench press. Start a program with free weights, but start light. It's better for you, trust us!
 
Mr. Snrub said:
Sorry man, sounds like bullshit to me--maybe I'm just paranoid, but always remember that trainers need more money and the longer they can keep you around and dependent on them, the more they get. In addition, machines will NOT prepare you for weights. Even 135 lbs. on a smith machine bench press is NOT 135 lbs. on the barbell bench press. Start a program with free weights, but start light. It's better for you, trust us!

kk, I will tell them that on Monday. But I don't think they are bullshitting. It looks more like giving out a standard table of general fitness to a user that has never lifted weights in a gym and has been kinda out of shape for some long time. Today one of the trainers got to me and told me if I was doing well and sort of offered me to start on weights, but I told him that I'd rather start on that next week.

Oh, and I'm already feeling better overall just for the cardio part. I missed exercising, and the final exams had me chained to my laptop. But the big dumbells and barbells scare me a little. I have skinny pussy arms! (as pictured here http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb17/JorgeRomeo/?action=view&current=IMG_0002.jpg)
 
J. M. Romeo said:
kk, I will tell them that on Monday. But I don't think they are bullshitting. It looks more like giving out a standard table of general fitness to a user that has never lifted weights in a gym and has been kinda out of shape for some long time. Today one of the trainers got to me and told me if I was doing well and sort of offered me to start on weights, but I told him that I'd rather start on that next week.

Oh, and I'm already feeling better overall just for the cardio part. I missed exercising, and the final exams had me chained to my laptop. But the big dumbells and barbells scare me a little. I have skinny pussy arms! (as pictured here http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb17/JorgeRomeo/?action=view&current=IMG_0002.jpg)

Well, I'll tell you now that starting on machines is, in NO way, going to "prepare" you for free weights. Best to get to free weights ASAP if you want to get bigger and stronger.

Haha, don't worry about being "small". Everyone starts somewhere
machines suck:D
!
 
Mr. Snrub said:
Well, I'll tell you now that starting on machines is, in NO way, going to "prepare" you for free weights. Best to get to free weights ASAP if you want to get bigger and stronger.

Haha, don't worry about being "small". Everyone starts somewhere
machines suck:D
!

They can't be THAT bad! I think that machines can prepare to free weights in the sense of getting some basic strength and endurance, and also for more complicated exercises with legs and all. Dont be such a luddite!

Well, time to hit the shower (it got late for me, so I went home without a shower, it's just a 5 minute walk from the gym) and then hit the drums. My arms ache a little, but that's life for you. Thanks for the advice, man.
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
Wasn't it discussed before that you aren't using as many stabilizer joints and muscles using machines as compared to using free weights?
 

lil smoke

Banned
I have no issue with complementing the routine with a few machines. It depends on how serious you are though. I know pros don't touch them.

Pec Fly, Sitting Row, lat pulldowns, cables, tricep extension, sometimes leg extension... I love doing these on machines, and free weights as well.

Curls, bench press, pull ups, dips.... these are things where I feel machines are useless.
 
Sol.. said:
Wasn't it discussed before that you aren't using as many stabilizer joints and muscles using machines as compared to using free weights?

Yes. All machines do is limit the amount of neurological and muscular work your body receives.

Like I said, machines are a huge part of the fitness industry because they are low-maintenance, don't require personnel to operate, are quiet, and you can get workouts done quickly. All these things lead to profit for the health club/gym.

Machines do NOT work with your body. They limit the movement, essentially making it "one-dimensional". No stabilizer muscles are worked. What became a movement that operates against gravity and "3D space" has become an assisted, single plane movement. For any machine exercise, there is a superior barbell exercise. And why wouldn't you want to use what's superior?
 

yacobod

Banned
lil smoke said:
I have no issue with complementing the routine with a few machines. It depends on how serious you are though. I know pros don't touch them.


professional what?

i'd wager every pro bodybuilder uses machines

and there are videos of 4 time world's strongest man super mariusz doing lat pulldowns and tricep pushdowns, whether the videos were serious or not remains to be seen, but they are out there
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
yacobod said:
professional what?

i'd wager every pro bodybuilder uses machines

and there are videos of 4 time world's strongest man super mariusz doing lat pulldowns and tricep pushdowns, whether the videos were serious or not remains to be seen, but they are out there

yeah, i've seen bodybuilders use machines.

They go straight to the source.


But what about lifters n' whatnot?
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
I'm 100% dumbell (because my home gym consists of a bench and 30/40/50lb dumbells). However, there are certain, very specific movements that obviously can't be done with free weights or a barbell. Also, free weights become a hassle at higher sizes. For example, I would love to do chest presses with two 60lbs but there is a point where your body just doesnt want to lift two, independent weights. Also, storage, floor damage, etc. is a consideration.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
they are low-maintenance, don't require personnel to operate, are quiet, and you can get workouts done quickly. All these things lead to profit

2vudf86.jpg


But in all seriousness now, from my absolute lack of experience and knowledge, I see machines in the same way that I see an easy difficulty level on a videogame. If you've been doing it all your life, you start on normal or hard. But if you haven't touched a controller ever, it might be a good idea to walk your first hours on that setting. And also, finishing a game on easy usually doesn't mean that you are good at it. Just that you had your hand held all the way.

Also, I've seen on my gym that most people with a big amount of muscle only use the machines sparingly and usually at either the beginning or the end of the workout. They seem useful depending on your goals. If you are just getting some fitness thing going, working out a little for general health purposes, they are OK. If you are planning to grow some muscles up, then you have to know their limitations.

Then again, I'm a huge n00b, so what do I know. That was just common sense. Mr. Snrub, you look like somebody who does this at a high level, so I can see where you are coming from. I will keep posting my progress and near-deaths when I get a barbell on my hands!
 

JB1981

Member
RSTEIN said:
I'm 100% dumbell (because my home gym consists of a bench and 30/40/50lb dumbells). However, there are certain, very specific movements that obviously can't be done with free weights or a barbell. Also, free weights become a hassle at higher sizes. For example, I would love to do chest presses with two 60lbs but there is a point where your body just doesnt want to lift two, independent weights. Also, storage, floor damage, etc. is a consideration.

what? you telling me you can't put two 60lb dumbells on your knees, lay back on a flat bench and press?

edit: been watching these Gym Jones videos - i am SO doing this routine where they pushup, pullup and then hit the Military press ... one right after the other .... looks fucking awesome.
 

lil smoke

Banned
Actually if I was just starting, I wouldn't want to touch machines. That would be the point where you would need to develop those stabilizers in linear fashion with your major groups. Once you've got some grounding, then support the free weights with other stuff, if you wish. That's the way I see it.

And how about some more italic guys?
 
can someone recommend good two days per week full body routine using barbells ? I don't have the time for 3 days routine due to long commute to school.
 
yacobod said:
professional what?

i'd wager every pro bodybuilder uses machines

and there are videos of 4 time world's strongest man super mariusz doing lat pulldowns and tricep pushdowns, whether the videos were serious or not remains to be seen, but they are out there

Machines can be a useful supplementation. But any routine BASED around machine is seriously flawed. Barbells are superior.

And pro bodybuilding is a joke.
 

lil smoke

Banned
Primordial said:
can someone recommend good two days per week full body routine using barbells ? I don't have the time for 3 days routine due to long commute to school.
Deadlift, curls, shoulder press, standing row, squat... go thru the thread. Most of the stuff involves barbell lifts.
 
i've been using this book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1594865841/?tag=neogaf0e-20. it's better to understand things.

"The key features that make this book a standout in the fitness field include:

• exercises geared toward functional strength that can be utilized in real-world situations, from playing sports to lifting furniture

• training sessions that are short, intense, and highly effective

• compound, multijoint exercises that replace the less-effective isolation exercises found in many fitness books

• no-nonsense dietary information utilizing a new and innovative food pyramid developed by the UCLA Center for Human Nutrition that will optimize strength gains, recovery, and physical progress"
 
J. M. Romeo said:
2vudf86.jpg


But in all seriousness now, from my absolute lack of experience and knowledge, I see machines in the same way that I see an easy difficulty level on a videogame. If you've been doing it all your life, you start on normal or hard. But if you haven't touched a controller ever, it might be a good idea to walk your first hours on that setting. And also, finishing a game on easy usually doesn't mean that you are good at it. Just that you had your hand held all the way.

Also, I've seen on my gym that most people with a big amount of muscle only use the machines sparingly and usually at either the beginning or the end of the workout. They seem useful depending on your goals. If you are just getting some fitness thing going, working out a little for general health purposes, they are OK. If you are planning to grow some muscles up, then you have to know their limitations.

Then again, I'm a huge n00b, so what do I know. That was just common sense. Mr. Snrub, you look like somebody who does this at a high level, so I can see where you are coming from. I will keep posting my progress and near-deaths when I get a barbell on my hands!

Hahaha, barbells REALLY aren't that dangerous. Machines are more apt to lead to muscular imbalances.

Ok, here's the thing with machines. My cousin could bench 225x5 on the smith machine, easy peasy. Thinks he's pretty strong, he's even pretty barrel chested, naturally large arms as well.

Swaggers on over to the free weight bench, and couldn't budge 225 for 1 rep. I had to help lift it off his chest. Had to move the weight down to 185 (if not less) for him to get 5, SHAKY reps.

Now...if you can tell me how that's good for a beginner, in ANY way, I will* send you $3000.

As an analogy, using machines wouldn't be like easy difficulty on a game. Using machines would be like force feeding the wrong controller into the wrong controller port and wondering why you keep dying because your character won't move at all.

If you want to play on easy difficulty, practice with an empty bar, and work on form. Slowly move the weight up as you get comfortable.

Trust me, I wasted SO much time (YEARS) on the wrong training methods...I wish I could go back. I'd be so much bigger and stronger now, and I don't have the advantage of "beginner's growth" anymore. Take advantage of it!

*-will not
 
Primordial said:
can someone recommend good two days per week full body routine using barbells ? I don't have the time for 3 days routine due to long commute to school.

Day 1:
Squats: 5x5
Barbell Step-Ups: 5x5
Bench Press: 5x5
Bent Rows: 5x5
Shoulder Press: 3x8
Pull-Ups: 3x8

Day 2:
Deadlifts: 3x5
Romanian deadlifts: 3x8
Incline Press: 5x5
Power Cleans: 5x3
Shoulder Press: 3x8
Chin-Ups: 3x8

If you have time, you can do some ab/arm work at the END of the workout.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
Hahaha, barbells REALLY aren't that dangerous. Machines are more apt to lead to muscular imbalances.

Ok, here's the thing with machines. My cousin could bench 225x5 on the smith machine, easy peasy. Thinks he's pretty strong, he's even pretty barrel chested, naturally large arms as well.

Swaggers on over to the free weight bench, and couldn't budge 225 for 1 rep. I had to help lift it off his chest. Had to move the weight down to 185 (if not less) for him to get 5, SHAKY reps.

Now...if you can tell me how that's good for a beginner, in ANY way, I will* send you $3000.

As an analogy, using machines wouldn't be like easy difficulty on a game. Using machines would be like force feeding the wrong controller into the wrong controller port and wondering why you keep dying because your character won't move at all.

If you want to play on easy difficulty, practice with an empty bar, and work on form. Slowly move the weight up as you get comfortable.

Trust me, I wasted SO much time (YEARS) on the wrong training methods...I wish I could go back. I'd be so much bigger and stronger now, and I don't have the advantage of "beginner's growth" anymore. Take advantage of it!

*-will not

Ok, you already got me with your last post, but next week I will be at full force with bars on my vagina, mouth and ass. This is promising. Never heard of "beginner's growth", but doesn't sound that bad. I will take some care of my diet, going back to a more low-carbish high-proteinish lifestyle. Not that I get too many empty carbs, except for the candy swap stuff I pretty much cut out all sugar and most of my bread is whole. Can't go wrong with that and meat.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
JB1981 said:
what? you telling me you can't put two 60lb dumbells on your knees, lay back on a flat bench and press?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that when you hit certain levels of weights (for everyone this is different) a lot of energy is expended in getting into position vs doing the actual movement. With machines, you avoid this. I'm not saying machines are better (in fact I think the opposite) but of course you're going to see tons of pros using machines. I'm just trying to say that there are pros and cons to both, not OMG dumbbells are superior to machines!!!
 
J. M. Romeo said:
Ok, you already got me with your last post, but next week I will be at full force with bars on my vagina, mouth and ass. This is promising. Never heard of "beginner's growth", but doesn't sound that bad. I will take some care of my diet, going back to a more low-carbish high-proteinish lifestyle. Not that I get too many empty carbs, except for the candy swap stuff I pretty much cut out all sugar and most of my bread is whole. Can't go wrong with that and meat.

Now you're talking my language.
 

yacobod

Banned
RSTEIN said:
I'm saying that when you hit certain levels of weights (for everyone this is different) a lot of energy is expended in getting into position vs doing the actual movement.

honestly a lot of energy is not really expended gettin the dbs into position for a lift, i'm not really buying that one

basically you pick up the weights, sit down on the bench, position the dbs on your thighs/knees as you are seated, kinda at the same time as you lay back into position to bench, you kinda kick up the dbs to yourself, idk its a really fluid motion, and it should become 2nd nature if you been lifting for a while

it might be simply a question of strength tho if you are having problems doing that
 
J. M. Romeo said:
http://i25.tinypic.com/2vudf86.jpg[IMG]

But in all seriousness now, from my absolute lack of experience and knowledge, I see machines in the same way that I see an easy difficulty level on a videogame. If you've been doing it all your life, you start on normal or hard. But if you haven't touched a controller ever, it might be a good idea to walk your first hours on that setting. And also, finishing a game on easy usually doesn't mean that you are good at it. Just that you had your hand held all the way.

Also, I've seen on my gym that most people with a big amount of muscle only use the machines sparingly and usually at either the beginning or the end of the workout. They seem useful depending on your goals. If you are just getting some fitness thing going, working out a little for general health purposes, they are OK. If you are planning to grow some muscles up, then you have to know their limitations.

Then again, I'm a huge n00b, so what do I know. That was just common sense. Mr. Snrub, you look like somebody who does this at a high level, so I can see where you are coming from. I will keep posting my progress and near-deaths when I get a barbell on my hands![/QUOTE]
But you're playing the same game, whether it's on Easy or Hard. My analogy would be more like: Using free weights for compound or "big" lifts is like participating in a high contact sport, like football or wrestling. Machines are like shopping at the mall. Yes, I do go to the mall when I need certain things, but I don't have to like it, I spend as little time as possible there, and it's not an important part of my life.
 

JB1981

Member
Mr. Snrub said:
Day 1:
Squats: 5x5
Barbell Step-Ups: 5x5
Bench Press: 5x5
Bent Rows: 5x5
Shoulder Press: 3x8
Pull-Ups: 3x8

Day 2:
Deadlifts: 3x5
Romanian deadlifts: 3x8
Incline Press: 5x5
Power Cleans: 5x3
Shoulder Press: 3x8
Chin-Ups: 3x8

If you have time, you can do some ab/arm work at the END of the workout.

is the romanian deadlift essentially a stiff-legged deadlift?
 
JB1981 said:
is the romanian deadlift essentially a stiff-legged deadlift?

Nope, quite different. Stiff legged deadlifts are usually done with lighter weight, start from the floor, involved straight or close to straight legs, and CAN be done with a rounded back.

Romanian deadlifts start from the top position (body in extension holding the barbell), and is initiated by pushing the hips back. Movement is stopped once the bar passes the kness, then return to the starting position.
 

mr stroke

Member
JB1981 said:
I've been reading that Gym Jones website all day. How awesome would it be to go train there for a few weeks? Damn .... they inspired me to buy a rope, kettlebells and a medicine ball and go to the local park and run around and do some crazy shit. I love his comments about the local gym and what passes for 'working out' these days. Really an eye-opener. I wish there was a gym like that around here.


It boggels my mind that the general puplic has never been able to grasp this type of workout? gymjones/HIIT is fucking amazing and FREE!!!
I love these workouts so much because there fast and kill you in a short period of time.

http://www.marktwight.com/videos.php?id=13
this ones great if you can get a friend to go to the park with you.

I recomend picking up a kettle bell if you can as there awesome for incorperating into your routine.
40 yard sprint-into-kettle bell-repeat 5 times-two minute rest-then repeat=dead
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
i sought out the highest protein, lowest calorie thing i could find. i don't like the idea of putting a bunch of unnecessary bullshit in my body, but the protein is a definite must now that i've started upping my cardio and lifting intensity. my muscles just aren't bouncing back quickly enough.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
beelzebozo said:
i sought out the highest protein, lowest calorie thing i could find. i don't like the idea of putting a bunch of unnecessary bullshit in my body, but the protein is a definite must now that i've started upping my cardio and lifting intensity. my muscles just aren't bouncing back quickly enough.

make sure to get some carbs too.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
beelzebozo said:
i eat cereal like nobody's business and can't stop eating homemade sandwich bread. carbs are definitely not a concern!

:lol I forgot, you're the cereal guy. Make sure you get complex carbs tho, whole grains, etc.
 

mr stroke

Member
beelzebozo said:
i sought out the highest protein, lowest calorie thing i could find. i don't like the idea of putting a bunch of unnecessary bullshit in my body, but the protein is a definite must now that i've started upping my cardio and lifting intensity. my muscles just aren't bouncing back quickly enough.

I notice you do a lot of distance running, are you doing runnnig then weights? or spliting days?
I would imagine doing any kind of leg lifting then running 12-15 miles+ must be tough on the legs?
 

beelzebozo

Jealous Bastard
mr stroke said:
I notice you do a lot of distance running, are you doing runnnig then weights? or spliting days?
I would imagine doing any kind of leg lifting then running 12-15 miles+ must be tough on the legs?

i don't do a lot of lifts with my legs. i run hard every day and do some upper body lifts to build general strength and definition, but definitely nothing close to the level of some of the guys here.
 
Mr. Snrub said:
Whoa.

STOP.

HOLD UP.


Whatever I told you guys, whatever I told ANYONE in this thread...ignore it.

Watch this. This is THE workout ANSWER.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KaJ1dua5Qms
Out of all the smartass comments I could make about Mr. Sporty Bra, aka "Cammy," aka the guy who refers to himself in alternating first and third person in the comments, I'll just say that that dude is pretty amazing, if he could really close grip bench 460 lbs. 460 FUCKING POUNDS!!
And really, there can be only one Cammy:
cammy-streetfighter2-hd-490.jpg
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
What he was doing really just seems like isometrics. That stuff aint no joke as far as what i've been able to research about it.

Still has the aura of pseudoscience though. I need more credible info.
 
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