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[Vito]

Tell me, what's so batshit insane about what I believe compared to what other religious institutions advocate?

If anything, mine is more Just and Merciful. In christianity ( no offense) for instance, everyone that didn't hear the name of jesus, automatically is doomed. As far as I know.


Tell me which one is worse?

As far as I can tell, a lot of you religious lot seem to think I should be burning in hell for not caring about your god, how am I suppose to tolerate you and like you? I'm not a christian, I tolerate them because they've been here a while longer then your group. And like I said, I think Europe's quota of insane religious people is reached with the roman catholic church & others.

 

[Gig]

Tell me, what's so batshit insane about what I believe compared to what other religious institutions advocate?

If anything, mine is more Just and Merciful. In christianity ( no offense) for instance, everyone that didn't hear the name of jesus, automatically is doomed. As far as I know.


Tell me which one is worse?

Well neither of them sound too fair (although, I'm pretty sure there are certain sects Christianity where salvation is still possible even if you have not heard of Jesus). I mean, why should a person be punished for merely expressing doubt?

 

[AmMortal]

Being a good person has nothing to do with believing in God. There are good people who have believed in God, and those who haven't. And its like an exam where if you fail you spent an infinite amount of time in agonizing pain, your religion only gets followers by threatening people.

Look, you need to understand that even if you are a gentle and kind person. This does not mean that you have the right to be in paradise. No one deserves paradise, this is fundemental in Islam, even the prophet himself doesn't deserve it in his own words.

What we believe is that everyone who doesn't acknowledge God, has got Na'latullah ( Exlusion from the Grace of God ) upon them. So, God will not save this person from hell, He will neglect them, like they neglected God on earth.

Who is going to reward good deeds, were it not for God? If a person does not acknowledge God, his deeds are fruitless, an example:

If I write you a cheque of about a 1 Million dollars, and all you have to do is cash this cheque. But you never cash it, how are you supposed to get your money ?

Well neither of them sound too fair (although, I'm pretty sure there are certain sects Christianity where salvation is still possible even if you have not heard of Jesus). I mean, why should a person be punished for merely expressing doubt?

What you need to understand, is that God appointed a prophet Infront of them.

The Muslims on earth, had to live without all of this and most of them have their doubts. Yet they continued to work and do the deeds commanded to them.

 

[TheHeretic]

What we believe is that everyone who doesn't acknowledge God, has got Na'latullah ( Exlusion from the Grace of God ) upon them. So, God will not save this person from hell, He will neglect them, like they neglected God on earth.

Who is going to reward good deeds, were it not for God? If a person does not acknowledge God, his deeds are fruitless, an example:

If I write you a cheque of about a 1 Million dollars, and all you have to do is cash this cheque. But you never cash it, how are you supposed to get your money ?

Doing a good deed is its own reward. I don't need God to validate my life.

Your philosophy is still believe what I believe or burn. A person can't neglect God, do you even know what neglect means? Neglect is the failure of the caretaker. God is the caretaker, not us. Its not up to use to take care of God.

The punishment does not fit the crime. You'll keep on believing what you want to believe, but burning for eternity of doubting God in the absence of evidence is ridiculous. If you were to make it to heaven would you feel good about billions of people suffering because they didn't believe in your specific version of God?

 

[AmMortal]

Doing a good deed is its own reward. I don't need God to validate my life.

Your philosophy is still believe what I believe or burn. A person can't neglect God, do you even know what neglect means? Neglect is the failure of the caretaker. God is the caretaker, not us. Its not up to use to take care of God.

The punishment does not fit the crime. You'll keep on believing what you want to believe, but burning for eternity of doubting God in the absence of evidence is ridiculous.

Have you ever heard of the phrase, "God does not help those who don't help themselves "?

You must always do your part, Allah helps you to stand, but you must learn to walk.

Give a man a fish and he'll be full for a day, teach a man how to catch a fish, and he'll never grow hungry.

There is enough evidence around you, no human being or any research done by human beings, has ever disproved the existence of God.

I also bid you farewell.

 

[TheHeretic]

There is enough evidence around you, no human being or any research done by human beings, has ever disproved the existence of God.

Well not only is this statement not true, because God violates the scientific laws we understand them, but we haven't proven unicorns don't exist either.

 

[Gig]

What you need to understand, is that God appointed a prophet Infront of them.

The Muslims on earth, had to live without all of this and most of them have their doubts. Yet they continued to work and do the deeds commanded to them.

I don't see how that changes things, it doesn't matter who it is, if someone/something tells me to do something could be harmful to me (and going to hell definitely sounds like it could be harmful to me), I would have to think about it. And I imagine many other people would feel the same.

 

[AmMortal]

I don't see how that changes things, it doesn't matter who it is, if someone/something tells me to do something could be harmful to me (and going to hell definitely sounds like it could be harmful to me), I would have to think about it. And I imagine many other people would feel the same.

I told you it would be hard to take in immediately. The whole point it that these people need to go through the weight and pains, you and me went through, the hard facts of life. These people weren't bombarded with different religions and different views of God,whereas only One was true. They get to know God for the first time, on the Day of Judgement. They have not gone through the dillemas most of us went through. So they have to go through an equal amount of stress, the amount that normally would be a lifespan, right there and then.

 

[Quixzlizx]

There is enough evidence around you, no human being or any research done by human beings, has ever disproved the existence of God.

It's impossible to prove a negative. According to the laws of logic that is, not according to the laws of the various gods out there.

 

[Winterblink]

Up front, I was raised Roman Catholic but haven't been a "practicing" member for years. I state that merely for background, not to infer any kind of committment to belief or whatever.

I have to give some respect to you AmMortal, for not only having the courage to start a thread like this but to be coming back to it and being so responsive to everyone without losing your cool.

Education about Islam is important given recent history, but doesn't do much to change the fact that the extremists in that religion have overtaken the majority views. As peaceful as Islam is purported to be, the extremists are providing and acting out the exact polar opposite of a peaceful solution.

Not everyone who was Catholic was a willing participant in the Crusades just like not every German was a Nazi during the period around WW2. As such it's an obtuse viewpoint for people to assume all Islamists are psychotics and/or suicide bombers.

My question to you is this. Islam is not a small faith by any means. It's huge. It has a lot of followers. What is it doing to reign in the extremist views, which seem to be growing in popularity to the point that they might totally overshadow entirely the peaceful side of the faith? Because educating *US* isn't going to be the whole answer.

 

[AmMortal]

Up front, I was raised Roman Catholic but haven't been a "practicing" member for years. I state that merely for background, not to infer any kind of committment to belief or whatever.

I have to give some respect to you AmMortal, for not only having the courage to start a thread like this but to be coming back to it and being so responsive to everyone without losing your cool.

Education about Islam is important given recent history, but doesn't do much to change the fact that the extremists in that religion have overtaken the majority views. As peaceful as Islam is purported to be, the extremists are providing and acting out the exact polar opposite of a peaceful solution.

Not everyone who was Catholic was a willing participant in the Crusades just like not every German was a Nazi during the period around WW2. As such it's an obtuse viewpoint for people to assume all Islamists are psychotics and/or suicide bombers.

My question to you is this. Islam is not a small faith by any means. It's huge. It has a lot of followers. What is it doing to reign in the extremist views, which seem to be growing in popularity to the point that they might totally overshadow entirely the peaceful side of the faith? Because educating *US* isn't going to be the whole answer.

Sadly, this is true. As Muslims the only thing we can do today is, not only be active in the religious aspects of our community. But also, the political stance. To our unfortune however, we do not have a massive propagating machine, such as the media, to our advantage.Educated muslims are being held down, the media enjoys a man that cries "death to the infidels", and blocks a man that wants to have a comprehensive debate. Many of the political/commercial bodies, see benefit in this uprise of extremism. Many of the countries where huge amounts of oil reside, are primarly muslim, and oil is thining out as far as availability goes. As much as I hate to say it, history is impossible to neglect. Many of the reasons why these extremist, have the views they have and gain ground, is that they focus on the past colonism.

Nothing these extremists do is based on faith, they take the life of a muslim lightly, even though in the sight of Allah, the blood of a Muslim is holier then the Ka'ba itself. Statistics show that they've killed more muslims then non-muslims. As much as it sounds absurd, your worse off being a muslim when it comes to terrorists. Educated muslims are a dying breed [literally ]

At the end of the day, it will be as it is written. Everything that is happening, is happening exaclty, as it was supposed to.

 

[ice cream]

At the end of the day, it will be as it is written. Everything that is happening, is happening exaclty, as it was supposed to.

Explain please? Pretty curious about this.

 

[AmMortal]

Explain please? Pretty curious about this.

According to the Prophet, the day of jdugement will not commence until:

0.When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings.

1.Books/writing will be widespread and (religious) knowledge will be low ( I'm sure 998% of all muslims on earth have a copy of the Qur'an, yet most can't even read it ).



2.Rain will be acidic or burning
4.Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time
5.singers and musical instruments will become popular
7.People will dance late into the night (Night Clubs )


8.People will claim to follow the Qur'an but will reject hadith & sunnah ( group called Quranists exists now )

9.When men lie with men and women lie with women
10.Leaders of people will be oppressors
11.The leader of a people will be the worst of them.

There's more a lot more.

 

[James Power]

You only know your true self if you aren't forced to do what's best for you. Remember, this is like an exam, showing you the clear answers would make the test useless. This way, you are proving to yourself that you are by nature, a good person.

How do you know that following your instruction book is what is best for you?
Yeah, because the book says so.

Spoiler

Plus, We are 100 billions!

 

[slider]

At the end of the day, it will be as it is written. Everything that is happening, is happening exaclty, as it was supposed to.

Hey, I'm sure someone's covered it already but you might wanna shed some light on the concept of Fate. I found it pretty interesting - and that's as an outsider. I think there's a key to understanding it without being a defeatist.

But people's reactions will be very much dependent on how they're wired, so to speak.

Personally I think I'm descended from sun-worshippers cos of how much difference a sunny day makes to me. It must be embedded in my genes man.

 

[Atrus]

According to the Prophet, the day of jdugement will not commence until:

0.When people begin to compete with others in the construction of taller buildings.

1.Books/writing will be widespread and (religious) knowledge will be low ( I'm sure 998% of all muslims on earth have a copy of the Qur'an, yet most can't even read it ).



2.Rain will be acidic or burning
4.Great distances will be traversed in short spans of time
5.singers and musical instruments will become popular
7.People will dance late into the night (Night Clubs )


8.People will claim to follow the Qur'an but will reject hadith & sunnah ( group called Quranists exists now )

9.When men lie with men and women lie with women
10.Leaders of people will be oppressors
11.The leader of a people will be the worst of them.

There's more a lot more.

So pretty much your day of judgment occurred in the 5th to 6th Century AD? All of those statements are a joke, presumably held by people who lack sufficient critical thinking skills to realize that they're poor generalizations.

People will compete in the construction of large buildings? Yes, good job at describing an activity undertaken since pre-history as a sign of the apocalypse. I'm sure there is a lot more, after all what good is a near-imminent end of days to scare people into religious belief if its already here.

 

[slider]

So pretty much your day of judgment occurred in the 5th to 6th Century AD? All of those statements are a joke, presumably held by people who lack sufficient critical thinking skills to realize that they're poor generalizations.

People will compete in the construction of large buildings? Yes, good job at describing an activity undertaken since pre-history as a sign of the apocalypse. I'm sure there is a lot more, after all what good is a near-imminent end of days to scare people into religious belief if its already here.

Not taking sides or anything. And not that it really matters, but I think it's specifically Tall buildings. Make of that what you will. I googled and found the (a?) specific saying about tall buildings. It's pretty... uh, dunno how to describe it...

"One day while we were sitting with Allaah's Messenger a man suddenly appeared before us, wearing a very white dress and having very black hair, without any signs of journey upon him, and none of us knew him. He approached until he sat before the Prophet with his knees touching the Prophet's knees and he placed his hands on his thighs and said "O Muhammad inform me about Islaam." Allaah's Messenger said, "Islaam is to bear witness that none has the right to be worshipped but Allaah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, to offer the Salaat (five daily prayers), pay Zakaat (annual charity), fast during the month of Ramadhan (fasting from sunrise to sunset), and to make Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) if you are able and have the means to make the journey." The man then said, "You have spoken the truth." We were surprised at his asking and confirming at the same time. He said "Inform me about Ihsaan" The Prophet said "Ihsaan (perfection) is to worship Allaah as if you see him; if you can't see Him, surely he sees you." He said, "Inform me about the Hour (doomsday, just before the day of judgment)." He (the Messenger of Allaah) said, "The one asked has no more knowledge of it than the questioner." He said, "(Its signs are) the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress [i.e. the children will dominate their parents] and you will see the barefooted, naked, impoverished sheepherders competing with each other in building tall buildings [i.e. people who where very poor a few years ago will suddenly become so rich that they will start competing with each other in building skyscrapers]." Then the stranger left. The Prophet remained seated for quite a while, then he asked me, "O Umar, do you know who the questioner was?" I said, "Allaah and His Messenger know best." He said , "That was Jibreel (Gabriel), he came to teach you your religion."

EDIT: I did a bit more searching and found this site. Some other signs. Pretty vague in parts - but, in all honesty, I wouldn't expect definitive guidelines. Life's not like that...
When HD gaming doesn't take off as expected and a small white all-conquering box takes over the world you're all going to hell.

Spoiler

Not that I think the Wii is evil or anything.

 

[TheHeretic]

Not taking sides or anything. And not that it really matters, but I think it's specifically Tall buildings. Make of that what you will. I googled and found the (a?) specific saying about tall buildings. It's pretty... uh, dunno how to describe it...

Tall is a relative term.

 

[AmMortal]

Hey, I'm sure you've covered it already but you might wanna shed some light on the concept of Fate. I found it pretty interesting - and that's as an outsider. I think there's a key to understanding it without being a defeatist.

The first principle which Islam lays down in regard to Taqdir( fate) is that man is neither completely the master of his fate nor is he bound to the blind law of predestination. So far as the sovereignty of Allah's Will is concerned, it is all-pervading and nothing falls outside its orbit.

It should be kept in mind in this connection that the word Taqdir(Fate) used in the Qur'an does not always signify something predestined. It at times implies a measure or the latent potentialities or possibilities with which Allah created man and all things of Nature. For example: He created everything for its Destiny (or its Measure) (Qur'an xxv.2). In Sura 54, verse 9 (the words are): W"e created everything according to a Measure or Destiny". In both these verses Destiny implies the inward reach of things, their latent potentialities or possibilities.[/I]


Fate, is a very,very complicated subject, that is a open platform for debate.

http://"http//www.islamcan.com/cgi-bin/increaseiman/htmlfiles/static/111998227190710.shtml2

Would like to check it out, but site's not working for me

 

[slider]

Tall is a relative term.

Yup, absolutely. I don't think muslims would expect specific and precise events... I could be wrong though. Don't know enough about it all.

Cheers.

 

[slider]

The first principle which Islam lays down in regard to Taqdir( fate) is that man is neither completely the master of his fate nor is he bound to the blind law of predestination. So far as the sovereignty of Allah's Will is concerned, it is all-pervading and nothing falls outside its orbit.

It should be kept in mind in this connection that the word Taqdir(Fate) used in the Qur'an does not always signify something predestined. It at times implies a measure or the latent potentialities or possibilities with which Allah created man and all things of Nature. For example: He created everything for its Destiny (or its Measure) (Qur'an xxv.2). In Sura 54, verse 9 (the words are): W"e created everything according to a Measure or Destiny". In both these verses Destiny implies the inward reach of things, their latent potentialities or possibilities.[/I]


Fate, is a very,very complicated subject, that is a open platform for debate.

http://"http//www.islamcan.com/cgi-bin/increaseiman/htmlfiles/static/111998227190710.shtml2

Would like to check it out, but site's not working for me

Ahh, the convo I had with my muslim mate was focused around the issue of God knowing already how things are gonna turn out. I, being a miserable git, made the inane comment that "well, what's the point of doing anything then?" to which he said that it was a sign of God's powerful-ness or something. And he added, strictly on a personal level, that even if God did know what he was gonna do... he himself didn't.

Cheers.

EDIT: AmMortal, edited that link. It's here... http://www.islamcan.com/dayofjudgement/index.shtml

 

[Azih]

Unless you start your own islamic sect.

You don't have to pick a denomination to be muslim.

 

[AmMortal]

Yup, absolutely. I don't think muslims would expect specific and precise events... I could be wrong though. Don't know enough about it all.

Cheers.

Concerning the tall buildings, check this out, on GAF itself :

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173313

Around 50 or so years ago, Dubai was as poor as can be, to the point that they didn't even have sandals . Now they're a very wealthy nation, competing in building the tallest towers on earth.

 

[Azih]

My question to you is this. Islam is not a small faith by any means. It's huge. It has a lot of followers. What is it doing to reign in the extremist views

Simple problem is I do not know what you mean by 'it' in the sentence 'What is it doing to reign in the extremist views'.

 

[slider]

Concerning the tall buildings, check this out, on GAF itself :

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173313

Around 50 or so years ago, Dubai was as poor as can be, to the point that they didn't even have sandals . Now they're a very wealthy nation, competing in building the tallest towers on earth.

Ha, nice. If you know what I mean.

As I tried to say before, perception is key. To some people that'll seem very precise and others will say it's not. Parekh said we're all prisoners of our subjectivity.

If there was no room for divergent views, well... where would the "reward" be? If there wasn't freewill I don't see how a religion could claim to offer the concepts of heaven and hell.

Incidentally, I may be wrong, but it seems you expect shit to kick off soon (realising "soon" is a relative term).

 

[castle007]

The tall building prophecy is not vague at all.

"barefooted, naked, impoverished sheepherders competing with each other in building tall buildings"

Dubai anyone??

 

[TheHeretic]

The tall building prophecy is not vague at all.

"barefooted, naked, impoverished sheepherders competing with each other in building tall buildings"

Dubai anyone??

I don't know how many naked shepards are working in the commercial district of Dubai. I wouldn't count on their numbers.

 

[castle007]

This website has a lot of the minor signs. Most, if not all are happening right now.

http://etori.tripod.com/dajjalsystem/judgement.html

Muslims will claim that they are precise, others will say it is vague and could have been made by anyone.

Take this one as an example:

A man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home

to me, this is talking about cellphones and pagers.


Others might look at me and laugh, but it makes sense to me.


Here is another one:

Adultery and fornication will be prevalent (The Prophet, peace be upon him, said that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people, which their ancestors had not known.) (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah, & Al-Haythami)

To me, this is talking about STDs like AIDS and HIV

 

[AmMortal]

Ha, nice. If you know what I mean.

As I tried to say before, perception is key. To some people that'll seem very precise and others will say it's not. Parekh said we're all prisoners of our subjectivity.

If there was no room for divergent views, well... where would the "reward" be? If there wasn't freewill I don't see how a religion could claim to offer the concepts of heaven and hell.

Incidentally, I may be wrong, but it seems you expect shit to kick off soon (realising "soon" is a relative term).

yeah, actually I do :lol

Dude, you don't know how awesome it is, seeing something like, breaking news on CNN etc. Knowing it would happen before it did.:lol

 

[Zapages]

I don't know how many naked shepards are working in the commercial district of Dubai. I wouldn't count on their numbers.

The whole Arabian Peninsula, especially the Dubai region was filled with sheepherders...

 

[TheHeretic]

The whole Arabian Peninsula, especially the Dubai region was filled with sheepherders...

Yeah, they aren't working in Dubai's skyscrapers. Believe me, I've been to Dubai.

 

[Atrus]

Not taking sides or anything. And not that it really matters, but I think it's specifically Tall buildings. Make of that what you will. I googled and found the (a?) specific saying about tall buildings. It's pretty... uh, dunno how to describe it...

I can describe it. How about 'foolish'?

Anyone that can turn or accept:

"and you will see the barefooted, naked, impoverished sheepherders competing with each other in building tall buildings"

into

"people who where very poor a few years ago will suddenly become so rich that they will start competing with each other in building skyscrapers"

is guilty of post-diction.

'Tall' buildings is also very descriptive. Just like a child telling the police officer that a tall scary looking man stole his bike. As is the idea that buildings aren't constructed by laborers or a serf class.

 

[slider]

yeah, actually I do :lol

Dude, you don't know how awesome it is, seeing something like, breaking news on CNN etc. Knowing it would happen before it did.:lol

Every time you say something I have to jump on google so I can answer!

On which note... You sure you meant to say that exactly as you did? I mean telling the future, isn't that outlawed in Islam? Sure, guidelines on trends and perhaps major events for a composite picture of where things are headed is one thing, but specific events is something else right? Sorry if I've misunderstood and am putting words in your mouth.

Peace.

 

[Zapages]

Yeah, they aren't working in Dubai's skyscrapers. Believe me, I've been to Dubai.

It means that back in the day they used to be sheepherders. But now they have become rich. Its an analogy.

 

[TheHeretic]

It means that back in the day they used to be sheepherders. But now they have become rich. Its an analogy.

Oh dear.

 

[castle007]

It means that back in the day they used to be sheepherders. But now they have become rich. Its an analogy.

don't bother trying man, he is just not getting it :lol

He is like Speculawyer's twin :lol

 

[AmMortal]

Every time you say something I have to jump on google so I can answer!

On which note... You sure you meant to say that exactly as you did? I mean telling the future, isn't that outlawed in Islam? Sure, guidelines on trends and perhaps major events for a composite picture of where things are headed is one thing, but specific events is something else right? Sorry if I've misunderstood and am putting words in your mouth.

Peace.

Nah, it's not like that.We're not foretelling the future. It's just that were quoting what the prophet(pbuh) said, the number one meaning of a prophet is that he, should foretell of the future events. We're just passing that one

 

[TheHeretic]

don't bother trying man, he is just not getting it :lol

He is like Speculawyer's twin :lol

Have you ever heard of postdiction? The Nostradamus effect? I wouldn't expect anyone here to actually apply critical thinking to their religion, but consider it anyway.

 

[slider]

I can describe it. How about 'foolish'?

Anyone that can turn or accept:

"and you will see the barefooted, naked, impoverished sheepherders competing with each other in building tall buildings"

into

"people who where very poor a few years ago will suddenly become so rich that they will start competing with each other in building skyscrapers"

is guilty of post-diction.

'Tall' buildings is also very descriptive. Just like a child telling the police officer that a tall scary looking man stole his bike. As is the idea that buildings aren't constructed by laborers or a serf class.

I see what you're getting at. Be that as it may, the original quote does exist and muslims, of course, are gonna do something with it. To me it looks a pretty good fit. If God does exist I reckon the big man will be dealing in macro events rather than micro. Where else can the quote go?

I realise that's a cop-out and as I said before I'm too lazy to be on either side. In fact I'm not intellectual enough to get caught up in a big debate.

Just remember...

Parekh said we're all prisoners of our subjectivity.

Cheers.

 

[castle007]

Every time you say something I have to jump on google so I can answer!

On which note... You sure you meant to say that exactly as you did? I mean telling the future, isn't that outlawed in Islam? Sure, guidelines on trends and perhaps major events for a composite picture of where things are headed is one thing, but specific events is something else right? Sorry if I've misunderstood and am putting words in your mouth.

Peace.

we only know the outlines of future events that will occur near the end of days. In that we are not really telling the future. These events are more like warnings for us to hurry up and do good deeds before it is too late. they are also there so that people won't claim "but how can god punish us? we had no warnings. No one told us anything. We weren't ready"

But when it comes to specific events about a person's life or future, that prohibited.

 

[Atrus]

I see what you're getting at. Be that as it may, the original quote does exist and muslims, of course, are gonna do something with it. To me it looks a pretty good fit. If God does exist I reckon the big man will be dealing in macro events rather than micro.

It seems awfully presumptuous of believers to determine what their God is saying than admit that they don't know. It's also interesting to note that it also implicitly states that the Quran is pointless to have been read in entirety until well over a thousand years later.

How was a citizen of Corduba in 900AD to know that shepherd meant citizen of Arab states like Dubai, and tall buildings didn't mean their Mosques but modern day sky scrappers.

How will Muslims of today know that it was really a passage about space elevators?

 

[slider]

It seems awfully presumptuous of believers to determine what their God is saying than admit that they don't know. It's also interesting to note that it also implicitly states that the Quran is pointless to have been read in entirety until well over a thousand years later.

How was a citizen of Corduba in 900AD to know that shepherd meant citizen of Arab states like Dubai, and tall buildings didn't mean their Mosques but modern day sky scrappers.

How will Muslims of today know that it was really a passage about space elevators?

That saying isn't from the Quran. It's a saying of the prophet. Forget what they're called but they do have a name. But, again: yeah.

Space elevators sound cool.

 

[TheHeretic]

There's more proof that there's a God than proof there isn't.

We know famous buildings like the Statue of Liberty were crafted by people.

Now, animals and living beings, or anything else crafted on this planet are far more complex than anything a human could come up with. A fly is made up many delicate structures to the point where every single thing works. A fly has its own place in the world, and its just a fly. No human could make a fly. There has to be a creator for this thing. I refuse to believe it just happened because it happened.

So you're telling me that the first fly that appeared in this world, just appeared upon chance? Or grass and trees? And water? And everything that works in this world happened upon chance? Everything in this world and in this galaxy is in perfect synchronization. Plants survive on water and sun, rain comes to replenish the plants with nutrients, food, and energy so they can grow. Herbivore animals eat the plants, carnivore and omnivore animals eat the herbivores. Seriously, every single cycle in life is so perfect that something or someone had to had to craft it far beyond human knowledge, and it was created so perfectly, so delicately, that it couldn't have happened upon chance.

The first part of your argument is the watchmaker argument, and its thoroughly debunked.

The second claims the world exists by chance, which just shows complete ignorance of the process of evolution. Life forms on this planet were not created perfectly. We have useless organs, remnants of our ancestry and biological flaws. Millions upon millions of species have died because they were unable to survive, including ones that would have surely evolved with our intelligence if they were here today.

The world itself is also, far from perfect. Most of it is uninhabitable. Most of the water on this planet is useless to us. Violent weather phenomenon plague entire countries, some areas have little to no rain making agriculture impossible.

Just because you don't understand something, that doesn't mean the answer is beyond your understanding. You "refuse" to believe it all happened without a creator, this has no bearing on what actually happened.

 

[Armitage]

Women will outnumber men......eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)

Yeah I don't think your apocalypse is going to happen any time soon. Sorry guys.

 

[Oblivion]

Himuro, did you officially convert to Islam?

 

[Armitage]

Dude, you don't know how awesome it is, seeing something like, breaking news on CNN etc. Knowing it would happen before it did.:lol

This is just too batshit insane to let go. Tell us something that's going to happen in the future.

 

[AmMortal]

This is just too batshit insane to let go. Tell us something that's going to happen in the future.

Nah, it's not like that.We're not foretelling the future. It's just that were quoting what the prophet(pbuh) said, the number one meaning of a prophet is that he, should foretell of the future events. We're just passing that one

Reading is fundamental.

 

[Kinitari]

The first part of your argument is the watchmaker argument, and its thoroughly debunked.

The second claims the world exists by chance, which just shows complete ignorance of the process of evolution. Life forms on this planet were not created perfectly. We have useless organs, remnants of our ancestry and biological flaws. Millions upon millions of species have died because they were unable to survive, including ones that would have surely evolved with our intelligence if they were here today.

The world itself is also, far from perfect. Most of it is uninhabitable. Most of the water on this planet is useless to us. Violent weather phenomenon plague entire countries, some areas have little to no rain making agriculture impossible.

Just because you don't understand something, that doesn't mean the answer is beyond your understanding. You "refuse" to believe it all happened without a creator, this has no bearing on what actually happened.

Mmm, yeah was about to say... everything just seems 'perfect' if you look at it through eyes that want to see it as so. I think it's something like 99% of all species of animal on this planet have gone extinct, chaos and destruction are a common thing caused by nature, and defects and mutations run rampant. If god was trying to create a world that was soooo very flawed that there was no way it would be OBVIOUS he existed, well he succeeded.

Women will outnumber men......eventually 50:1 (Bukhari, Muslim, & Ahmad)

Even if that happened my girlfriend still wouldn't let me be a polygamist =/.

Edit:

Children of fornication will become widespread or prevalent (at-Tabarani, al-Hakim)

.... aren't those just called babies?

 

[Armitage]

Reading is fundamental.

Dude, you don't know how awesome it is, seeing something like, breaking news on CNN etc. Knowing it would happen before it did.

??

If you know something is going to happen before it does, feel free to share.

 

[AmMortal]

??

If you know something is going to happen before it does, feel free to share.

Okay now this is just getting sad.

We are quoting what the prophet(pbuh) said, the number one meaning of a prophet is that HE, should foretell of the future events.

sigh