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[AAK]

speaking of females, in Islam women aren't allowed to pray at the same time and in the same room as men. That's kind of oppressive.

Your source is full of it.

 

[cashman]

what? ive never heard about that.

That part is wrong, but I don't think the same room part is.

 

[Althane]

Which reminds me: I want a straight answer on this.

What does Islam say about women covering themselves? I.E: Should they wear the Burka thing?

(As should be noted, I'm a big fan of people wearing whatever they want)

(And as also should be noted, but I'm sure you could guess, I'm against religious law being enforced in a country. Even my own. Probably especially my own.)

 

[AAK]

That part is wrong, but I don't think the same room part is.

No, Prophet Muhammad SallalahuAlahaiwassalam prayed next to his wife all the time.

 

[AAK]

What does Islam say about women covering themselves?

Dress Modest. Don't whore yourself out.

EDIT: But if you want something more detailed, Don't wear tight clothings such that the outline of your entire body is viewable. Woman may show their hands and their face. The rest of the body shouldn't be visible to the public.

EDIT2: And since I know it will come up later on, the same thing applies to males. They should dress modest as well and not sexually draw attention to themselves. But that doesn't mean to dress like a beggar, dress nicely and appropriately... you can still satisfy that critereon without showing off.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

yeah women are never in the same room, I've only seen little girls stay with their fathers a few times during prayer (at least I think they were little girls)

7 and under

yesterday I saw a father and a little girl praying together I thouth it was cute made me want to get married and have a child of my own

I have not seen or met one woman at the mosque they must have a secret passage way or something. Although I know they are there since the Iman wears a wireless mic headphone thing that are connected to speakers. He was giving a lecture after prayer and one of the brothers asked the Iman a question the Iman said this one is very complex it will take time, the guy replied We have all night brother. The Iman took off the headphone mic and took it as far away from his face at arms lenght and said MY Wife is here and she is expecting to go shopping after this

I dunno I kinda like women being is a separate room... I just know I would be checking them out as they prayed can you imagine a bunch of women bowing down come on THINK A LITTLE it would not work for a room full of human males to see women bending down like that and stay without LUST sheesh

 

[AAK]

yeah women are never in the same room

This isn't entirely true, women usually are separated from the men so the most convenient method of approach when organizing the allocation of people in a mosque is to have the males and females separated in a different room. In most universities where there is the friday sermon and even when the local Muslim community rents a hall for a day during Eid festivals the woman and men are just separated but still in the same general area.

But I'm glad you are retaining the community aspect after converting to Islam SmilesandCries. It's always healthy to have a good relationship with everyone attending the prayers with you. It's a place where you can meet true friends.

 

[GSG Flash]

Yeah, women are allowed to pray in the same room, but most of the time they don't and when they do they pray behind the men (for the reason S&C stated :lol )

Oh yeah, here's the link that I promised S&C I would post

http://www.islamfortoday.com/athar03.htm

 

[Smiles and Cries]

This isn't entirely true, women usually are separated from the men so the most convenient method of approach when organizing the allocation of people in a mosque is to have the males and females separated in a different room. In most universities where there is the friday sermon and even when the local Muslim community rents a hall for a day during Eid festivals the woman and men are just separated but still in the same general area.

But I'm glad you are retaining the community aspect after converting to Islam SmilesandCries. It's always healthy to have a good relationship with everyone attending the prayers with you. It's a place where you can meet true friends.

hmmm there is a festival thingy next monday where they will rent a hall to have more people come. I made a few friend they seem like great people I just need to spend sometime at home to learn my Al Fatihah

 

[AAK]

One more thing I hope you take into account which is something I regret not doing, was memorizing the translation in a language I understood before memorizing the surah itself. (especially Al-Fatihah) It does volumes in helping me meditate and concentrate on God when I pray.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

One more thing I hope you take into account which is something I regret not doing, was memorizing the translation in a language I understood before memorizing the surah itself. (especially Al-Fatihah) It does volumes in helping me meditate and concentrate on God when I pray.

good point this is why I am turned off by the brothers telling me to repeat after them when most of them never tell me what it means... but on my own I have the english right there. I will keep this in mind I can see the value of knowing what I am saying. There is no spiritual connection without understanding the words for me

GSG Flash thanks bookmarked for my reading list

 

[AmMortal]

nvm

 

[Smiles and Cries]

do you have to recite the call to prayer when praying alone away from the mosque?

 

[Yazan]

No

 

[AmMortal]

I was curious about that. What is this call to prayer? Do you have to say what prayer you're doing before you pray when you're at home?

There's different, views, some say it should, others say, it's not. And as with everything, it is best to go with the safest option.

Recite it, but not loudly, not too softly, but as to what you feel is private enough for you.

edit;
Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar

Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar.

Ash-hadu-an la ilaha il Allah
Ash-hadu-an la ilaha il Allah

Ash-hadu-ana-Muhammadan rasuAllah
Ash-hadu-ana-Muhammadan rasulAllah

Haya-Ala'l Salaat

Haya-Ala'l Salaat

Haya-Ala'l Falaah
Haya-Ala'l Falaah

Allahu Akbar,

Allahu Akbar,

La ilaha il-Allah


Anyway, there's plenty of software available, that does this automatic for you, on the times of prayer. So you won't have to do it.

Oh, and never stop on prayer, even if you feel like you can't or aren't doing it properly.

Allah wants you intentions.


Google Adhan software.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

There's different, views, some say it should, others say, it's not. And as with everything, it is best to go with the safest option.

Recite it, but not loudly, not too softly, but as to what you feel is private enough for you.

edit;
Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar

Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar.

Ash-hadu-an la ilaha il Allah
Ash-hadu-an la ilaha il Allah

Ash-hadu-ana-Muhammadan rasuAllah
Ash-hadu-ana-Muhammadan rasulAllah

Haya-Ala'l Salaat

Haya-Ala'l Salaat

Haya-Ala'l Falaah
Haya-Ala'l Falaah

Allahu Akbar,

Allahu Akbar,

La ilaha il-Allah


Anyway, there's plenty of software available, that does this automatic for you, on the times of prayer. So you won't have to do it.

Oh, and never stop on prayer, even if you feel like you can't or aren't doing it properly.

Allah wants you intentions.


Google Adhan software.

ah one more thing for me to mess up at

seriously I like staying home I stayed home today and did my prayers according to the times for my local area. The mosque does have different times

I have one question though

I am I currently in sin for now having my prayers to memory yet?

I worry a lot about it and spend hours and I make very little progress I feel I am rushing myself

when I go to mosque I only get confused because if I learned to say a word one way the person teaching me at the time says it a different way so I try to change my brain's habit to say it the new way... that is until the next brother comes up and starts to teach me the same word in a whole different way

Oh how long before the prayer must you recite the call to prayer privately? Say my next prayer is the ISHA at 5:47 EST what time should I recite the call to prayer privately?

hey guys how many wudus do you end up doing in a given day?

EDIT: AmMortal you have a bad habit of answering the best parts of a question with an edit!

I feel a little better knowing intentions are good this will help my learning ease a bit

 

[Darackutny]

hey guys how many wudus do you end up doing in a given day?

Usually three or four.

Gratz to you and Duck Amuck btw.

Oh yeah, here's the link that I promised S&C I would post

http://www.islamfortoday.com/athar03.htm

Mmm... Pretty funky article. Doesn't seem authentic due to lack of references. Temporary marriage in Shiasm is a misconception?! Athar M.D. better not quit his day job. =p

 

[GSG Flash]

Mmm... Pretty funky article. Doesn't seem authentic due to lack of references. Temporary marriage in Shiasm is a misconception?! Athar M.D. better not quit his day job. =p

He worded it wrong as a misconception, but if you read his explanation he defends it and never says it isn't true. Anyways, shias themselves are pretty divided on mutah and I don't think I know any shia that practices it, but it is a well known fact that it was practiced during the time of the Prophet.

 

[Ela Hadrun]

Man, I usually feel pretty lonely on GAF but I really am the only girl in this thread eh?

You guys are all, "a mosque is the most welcoming place in the world" but then "no, I've never seen an adult woman at the mosque" come on

Also, AmMortal, saying our bodies need things like meat and a wife is pretty creepy to those of us (the one of us who is me) who IS a wife. I don't really think of myself in the same category as meat, and my body certainly doesn't need a wife. If it does, then I'm being oppressed, lol.

Man I wish there was one Muslim girl on GAF. Poo.

 

[GSG Flash]

Man, I usually feel pretty lonely on GAF but I really am the only girl in this thread eh?

You guys are all, "a mosque is the most welcoming place in the world" but then "no, I've never seen an adult woman at the mosque" come on

Also, AmMortal, saying our bodies need things like meat and a wife is pretty creepy to those of us (the one of us who is me) who IS a wife. I don't really think of myself in the same category as meat, and my body certainly doesn't need a wife. If it does, then I'm being oppressed, lol.

Man I wish there was one Muslim girl on GAF. Poo.

Yeah, I'd say you are the only lady in this thread lol

I find it surprising that there is even a muslim girl on GAF in the first place considering the ratio of men to women here is like 500:1 and non-muslim to muslim is like 1000:1 :lol

But yeah, I think a lot of muslim guys need to work on being less sexist, even if they didn't mean it/realize it (just a small dig at Ammortal ), and more respectful of women.

 

[ice cream]

In Islam you don't need to have a wife nor eat meat, no where in the Qur'an does it say you HAVE to do these things.

 

[GSG Flash]

In Islam you don't need to have a wife nor eat meat, no where in the Qur'an does it say you HAVE to do these things.

Well the Prophet did say that you complete 50% of your religion if you get married, but technically you're right, you don't need either of those.

A man needs a wife just as much as a women needs a husband.

 

[Darackutny]

He worded it wrong as a misconception, but if you read his explanation he defends it and never says it isn't true. Anyways, shias themselves are pretty divided on mutah and I don't think I know any shia that practices it, but it is a well known fact that it was practiced during the time of the Prophet.

Well, the author of the article takes it a couple of steps further by stating the following.

Misconception #9: Shias practice temporary marriages (mutah).

Response: Mutah (temporary marriages) was allowed during the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and he himself practiced it. Ibn Zubayr was born out of the temporary marriage. Later on Caliph Umar prohibited it due to social reasons as the Islamic world was rapidly expanding. Shias discourage mutah but do not consider it prohibited.

First of all, accusing Mohammed of participating in temporary marriage is something that I personally find offensive. I'm surprised that you would link anyone to read this about your prophet. Secondly, according to Sunni sources, it was banned during the time of the Prophet and not at the time of second caliph, which is pretty odd since Athar is a Sunni. Thirdly, Shias do NOT discourage temporary marriages. In fact, temporary marriages in Shiasm is not only accepted by your scholars, but encouraged as well. Check out Furoo' Al-Kafi sometime. Al-Kulayni dedicated several chapters that promote this action.

In Islam you don't need to have a wife nor eat meat, no where in the Qur'an does it say you HAVE to do these things.

We can't eat meat?

 

[Darackutny]

Well the Prophet did say that you complete 50% of your religion if you get married, but technically you're right, you don't need either of those.

I've heard this before, but it doesn't seem to be authentic. Can you provide a reference?

 

[AmMortal]

Man, I usually feel pretty lonely on GAF but I really am the only girl in this thread eh?

You guys are all, "a mosque is the most welcoming place in the world" but then "no, I've never seen an adult woman at the mosque" come on

Also, AmMortal, saying our bodies need things like meat and a wife is pretty creepy to those of us (the one of us who is me) who IS a wife. I don't really think of myself in the same category as meat, and my body certainly doesn't need a wife. If it does, then I'm being oppressed, lol.

Man I wish there was one Muslim girl on GAF. Poo.

That was in a different context xD

Human beings( Whether FEMALE or MALE lol) have a necessity to fulfill certain physical needs. Sex being up there, with sleep, and food. Here I was focusing on the physical aspects, as the post I was arguing with, was refering to physical proofs.

It's natural.

 

[GSG Flash]

First of all, accusing Mohammed of participating in temporary marriage is something that I personally find offensive. I'm surprised that you would link anyone to read this about your prophet. Secondly, according to Sunni sources, it was banned during the time of the Prophet and not at the time of second caliph, which is pretty odd since Athar is a Sunni.

You're right about that, I don't believe the Prophet ever practiced it. As for why I would link this article, well I'm not gonna condemn the whole article based on one small piece. (and the fact that I didn't notice that little bit on temp. marriage)

And yes, according to some Sunni sources it was banned. Obviously Shias don't follow Sunni hadiths just like Sunnis don't follow Shia hadiths.

Thirdly, Shias do NOT discourage temporary marriages. In fact, temporary marriages in Shiasm is not only accepted by your scholars, but encouraged as well. Check out Furoo' Al-Kafi sometime. Al-Kulayni dedicated several chapters that promote this action.

Where did I say otherwise? And it's not encouraged by all Shia scholars, and the ones that do encourage it do so for when someone absolutely needs it.

Just wondering, but what are your views on misyar? It seems like it's the Sunni equivalent of mutah with both the roles switched (Sunnis accept as valid while Shias deem it as haraam).

 

[AmMortal]

Yeah, I'd say you are the only lady in this thread lol

I find it surprising that there is even a muslim girl on GAF in the first place considering the ratio of men to women here is like 500:1 and non-muslim to muslim is like 1000:1 :lol

But yeah, I think a lot of muslim guys need to work on being less sexist, even if they didn't mean it/realize it (just a small dig at Ammortal ), and more respectful of women.

Hey, dude wait a minute.

I was talking about MALE monks as human beings need things etc.

If it was Female monks ( WHICH I ASKED FOR, but didn't get info on lol), it would have been the same thing.

 

[Darackutny]

You're right about that, I don't believe the Prophet ever practiced it. As for why I would link this article, well I'm not gonna condemn the whole article based on one small piece. (and the fact that I didn't notice that little bit on temp. marriage)

Honestly, I'd read through everything I link to converts. Imagine having these new guys believing that Mohammed had temporary marriage because you didn't go through the article thoroughly.

Just wondering, but what are your views on misyar? It seems like it's the Sunni equivalent of mutah with both the roles switched (Sunnis accept as valid while Shias deem it as haraam).

That fact that you call it the "equivalent of mutah" shows that you don't know the differences between the two. The only difference between misyar and traditional marriages is that the wife can live with her family.

Mut'ah, or should I say temporary marriages, is in no way similar to traditional marriages. Other than the fact that it is temporary, contemporary scholars like Al-Sistani have made it permissible for one to rely on an income based on payments made through these marriages. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the Grand Ayatollah Al-Sistani has legalized prostitution. No wonder Shiasm is popular among youths.

 

[AmMortal]

Well, I guess there's someone new here, that can take over the thread :lol

I'm just like batman, I need someone like harvey xD

 

[DSWii60]

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the Grand Ayatollah Al-Sistani has legalized prostitution.

What a load of rubbish. How would you like it if I started slagging off one of your scholars after completely misrepresenting him?

Mutah is only permitted with parental permission. Hence there's no point in the youth of today using this as a vehicle to pursue their own desires as there's no way their parents would give them permission to.

With regards to the money issue, the whole point of giving money is so that two people do not do a mutah just so they can have sex every so often, they realise that they have a responsibility to look after each other and take care of each other. Saying Ayatullah Sistani has legalised prostitution is slanderous and misleading and I'd appreciate it if you took more care with the words you use.

In any case no one uses Mutah these days.

No wonder Shiasm is popular among youths.

Or maybe it's because Shi'ism is the Right Path and youths are investigating and realising this

 

[GSG Flash]

Hey, dude wait a minute.

I was talking about MALE monks as human beings need things etc.

If it was Female monks ( WHICH I ASKED FOR, but didn't get info on lol), it would have been the same thing.

lol, I was just playing around with ya man

Honestly, I'd read through everything I link to converts. Imagine having these new guys believing that Mohammed had temporary marriage because you didn't go through the article thoroughly.

Honestly, it's such a small thing compared to the bs being spread about our Prophet nowadays that I'm surprised you're making such a big stink about it.

That fact that you call it the "equivalent of mutah" shows that you don't know the differences between the two. The only difference between misyar and traditional marriages is that the wife can live with her family.

Mut'ah, or should I say temporary marriages, is in no way similar to traditional marriages. Other than the fact that it is temporary, contemporary scholars like Al-Sistani have made it permissible for one to rely on an income based on payments made through these marriages. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the Grand Ayatollah Al-Sistani has legalized prostitution. No wonder Shiasm is popular among youths.

It seems you don't even know what Nikah Misyar is, or you just conveniently left out the part where a man doesn't have to provide for his wife and/or any child that is a result of that marriage, that a man can marry a woman through Nikah Misyar without the consent or knowledge of any other wife or wives and that a man (or woman) can divorce from a Misyar marriage just by stating their intentions to do so, seems like pretty big things to just leave out since they all are absent in traditional marriages.

Also, where is your proof for the Sistani accusation? I went through his website and read no such thing.

And that last sentence reveals your true intentions of being a shit disturber, congratulations, you succeeded.

Or maybe it's because Shi'ism is the Right Path and youths are investigating and realising this

Just to differentiate myself on something, I think the only one that decides what is the right path or the wrong path is Allah, although I follow Shia teachings I don't believe Sunni'ism is the "wrong path", as long as you're a muslim, you're a muslim.

 

[DSWii60]

Just to differentiate myself on something, I think the only one that decides what is the right path or the wrong path is Allah, although I follow Shia teachings I don't believe Sunni'ism is the "wrong path", as long as you're a muslim, you're a muslim.

Yeah, I actually agree. So long as you believe in Allah you're on the Right Path. Hence the .

 

[RiZ III]

Yeah, I actually agree. So long as you believe in Allah you're on the Right Path. Hence the .

That's what would unite all monotheists in general. Currently Jews and Muslims, perhaps they'll realize again how much they share some day. All Muslims (shi'ah, sunni, etc.) are united by their belief in the Quran. It is their traditions and hadith that divide them, something the Quran warns against.

 

[Darackutny]

Mutah is only permitted with parental permission. Hence there's no point in the youth of today using this as a vehicle to pursue their own desires as there's no way their parents would give them permission to.

Eh?! Al-Sistani says that you don't need witness for temporary marriages.

Check out question #3. If you can't read Arabic, have a friend help you out.

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=5&cid=165

السؤال: هل يشترط الشاهد في عقد الزواج المؤقت ( المتعة ) ؟
الجواب: لا يجب ولایشترط.

Translation:

Question: Is a witness necessary for temporary marriages?
Answer: No, it isn't necessary.

With regards to the money issue, the whole point of giving money is so that two people do not do a mutah just so they can have sex every so often, they realise that they have a responsibility to look after each other and take care of each other.

Oh really?!

http://www.alseraj.net/maktaba/kotob/hadith/kafi5/html/ara/books/al-kafi-5/288.html

Just this link out from your most authentic hadith book Al-Kafi. This page contains hadiths that show that the amount of money paid could be as little as a dirham or a handful of dates. This is a joke, what do you mean responsibility?! Temporary marriages can last an hour if the couple wishes for it to be that long.

It seems you don't even know what Nikah Misyar is, or you just conveniently left out the part where a man doesn't have to provide for his wife and/or any child that is a result of that marriage, that a man can marry a woman through Nikah Misyar without the consent or knowledge of any other wife or wives and that a man (or woman) can divorce from a Misyar marriage just by stating their intentions to do so, seems like pretty big things to just leave out.

I'm interested in sources please. Your word alone has no weight.

By the way, Al-Sistani says that for temporary marriages, your permanent wife doesn't need to know that you are cheating on her... I mean, having a temporary marriage.

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=5&cid=165&eid=0&page=11

Question 106:

السؤال: هل يجب على الرجل المتزوج زواجاً دائماً إذا أراد أن يتزوج بأخرى زواجاً مؤقتاً أن يخبر زوجته الأولى بنيته أم لا..؟
الجواب: لا يجب.

Translation:

Question: Is it necessary for a married man who wanted to get into a temporary marriage to tell his first wife about his intention?

Answer: It is not necessary.

Saying Ayatullah Sistani has legalised prostitution is slanderous and misleading and I'd appreciate it if you took more care with the words you use.

Also, where is your proof for the Sistani accusation? I went through his website and read no such thing.

http://www.alseraj.net/ar/fikh/2/?TzjT8odmvl1075094365&181&210&7

Question #201:

السؤال:

هل يجوز أن تمتعهن المرأة ، أو الفتاة زواج المتعة كمهنة ضمن الضوابط الشرعية تعيش وتتكسب من خلالها ؟
الفتوى:

يجوز .

Translation:

Question: Is it permissible for a woman to go through temporary marriages as an occupation while sticking with Islamic law with the conditions that surround temporary marriages when making an income?

Answer: It is permissible.

Unlike yourself, I will always be glad to back up my statements. Happy hunting.

And that last sentence reveals your true intentions of being a shit disturber, congratulations, you succeeded.

I'm glad that we understand each other.

 

[AmMortal]

That's what would unite all monotheists in general. Currently Jews and Muslims, perhaps they'll realize again how much they share some day. All Muslims (shi'ah, sunni, etc.) are united by their belief in the Quran. It is their traditions and hadith that divide them, something the Quran warns against.

Actually, The people of the Sunnah, and the people shia, differ on some issues concerning the Qur'an. For instance,it is widely known among shia circles that the Qur'an has been altered to some extent. While the people of the Sunnah, hold that the Qur'an is exactly, how it was when it was revealed. Nothing added, or subtracted.

This is also,the difference between us and the Jews, we believe that Torah has been altered, but that the Qur'an has not and will not. An oath taken by Allah, in the Qur'an, ON the Qur'an itself.

 

[Darackutny]

Just wondering, but what are your views on misyar?

Oh, and I realized that I wasn't clear enough about this earlier, but I'm leaning towards misyar marriages being forbidden, which is the view of the majority of Sunni scholars. Of course, I was just playing the devil's advocate earlier defending misyaar marriages. However, I still think that it is much more permissible than your "equivalent".

Of course, I will still entertain any arguments against misyaar marriages, since it is such a horrible thing. I await those references.

Actually, The people of the Sunnah, and the people shia, differ on some issues concerning the Qur'an. For instance,it is widely known among shia circles that the Qur'an has been altered to some extent.

Great point, by the way.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

hmmmm I feel like I just tuned on HOT TOPICS on The View

the mosque was packed today (being friday) about 200 brothers

felt good not to be alone

 

[GSG Flash]

Eh?! Al-Sistani says that you don't need witness for temporary marriages.

Check out question #3. If you can't read Arabic, have a friend help you out.

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=5&cid=165

السؤال: هل يشترط الشاهد في عقد الزواج المؤقت ( المتعة ) ؟
الجواب: لا يجب ولایشترط.

Translation:

Question: Is a witness necessary for temporary marriages?
Answer: No, it isn't necessary.

A virgin female is not allowed to enter a Nikah Mutah without the consent of her father

Oh really?!

http://www.alseraj.net/maktaba/kotob/hadith/kafi5/html/ara/books/al-kafi-5/288.html

Just this link out from your most authentic hadith book Al-Kafi. This page contains hadiths that show that the amount of money paid could be as little as a dirham or a handful of dates. This is a joke, what do you mean responsibility?! Temporary marriages can last an hour if the couple wishes for it to be that long.

And so can Misyar marriages, I don't see your point, many Sunni men travel abroad, get in a Nikah Misyar and then divorce their new wife once they have to go back home.

I'm interested in sources please. Your word alone has no weight.

Here's your damn source http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=82104&Option=FatwaId

happy?

By the way, Al-Sistani says that for temporary marriages, your permanent wife doesn't need to know that you are cheating on her... I mean, having a temporary marriage.

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&nid=5&cid=165&eid=0&page=11

Question 106:

السؤال: هل يجب على الرجل المتزوج زواجاً دائماً إذا أراد أن يتزوج بأخرى زواجاً مؤقتاً أن يخبر زوجته الأولى بنيته أم لا..؟
الجواب: لا يجب.

Translation:

Question: Is it necessary for a married man who wanted to get into a temporary marriage to tell his first wife about his intention?

Answer: It is not necessary.

And what about Misyar allowing the same thing? You seem to condemn mutah for it easily but if it's done with Misyar it's just fine *rolls eyes*
It's funny that you only keep on listing Sistani sources, you do know that there are more Shia scholars than just Sistani, right?

http://www.alseraj.net/ar/fikh/2/?TzjT8odmvl1075094365&181&210&7

Question #201:

السؤال:

هل يجوز أن تمتعهن المرأة ، أو الفتاة زواج المتعة كمهنة ضمن الضوابط الشرعية تعيش وتتكسب من خلالها ؟
الفتوى:

يجوز .

Translation:

Question: Is it permissible for a woman to go through temporary marriages as an occupation while sticking with Islamic law with the conditions that surround temporary marriages when making an income?

Answer: It is permissible.

Unlike yourself, I will always be glad to back up my statements. Happy hunting.

I did some more searching and that is the only website where I found such a thing said by Sistani. Although AlSeraj is reliable, that leads me to believe it's a weak ruling.

I'm glad that we understand each other.

So you admit to trolling?

Nice work there junior

edit:

Actually, The people of the Sunnah, and the people shia, differ on some issues concerning the Qur'an. For instance,it is widely known among shia circles that the Qur'an has been altered to some extent. While the people of the Sunnah, hold that the Qur'an is exactly, how it was when it was revealed. Nothing added, or subtracted.

This is also,the difference between us and the Jews, we believe that Torah has been altered, but that the Qur'an has not and will not. An oath taken by Allah, in the Qur'an, ON the Qur'an itself.

I don't know what Shias you talk to, but no Shia I know, including myself, thinks the Quran is altered. In fact, Shias take great pride in the fact that, unlike the Bible, the text in the Quran is completely unadulterated from when it was revealed.

Oh, and I realized that I wasn't clear enough about this earlier, but I'm leaning towards misyar marriages being forbidden, which is the view of the majority of Sunni scholars. Of course, I was just playing the devil's advocate earlier defending misyaar marriages. However, I still think that it is much more permissible than your "equivalent".

Of course, I will still entertain any arguments against misyaar marriages, since it is such a horrible thing. I await those references.

You being a Sunni, I wouldn't expect otherwise. For the record, I hold the same opinion about Mutah as you do about Misyar, and I think the majority of the Shia community does as well considering how looked down upon it is everywhere.

You painting all of Shias with one brush doesn't hold well for your argument. Just ike how I won't call all Sunnis "Wahabbis" or "Salafis" because I know the Sunni side of my family sure as hell doesn't share the same radical views as them.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

let me go back to asking simple questions

Does burping break wudu?

Sneezing?

 

[GSG Flash]

let me got back to asking simple questions

Does burping break wudu?

Sneezing?

Nope, I believe the only passing of gas that breaks wudhu is farting.

 

[Yazan]

No and no

 

[AmMortal]

Nope, I believe the only passing of gas that breaks wudhu is farting.

Bingo.

 

[Darackutny]

And so can Misyar marriages, I don't see your point, many Sunni men travel abroad, get in a Nikah Misyar and then divorce their new wife once they have to go back home.

I don't think you are aware of what this part of the discussion is about. DSWii60 defended Sistani's legalizing of prostitution by saying that the only reason he said this is so that "they realise that they have a responsibility to look after each other and take care of each other." Your point here is irrelevant.

Here's your damn source http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/fatwa/S...Option=FatwaId

happy?

Happy? Did you even look at the name of the scholar that stated this?

"Fatwa answered by: The Fatwa Center at Islamweb"

I brought you statements from your Grand Ayatollah. Try statements from major Sunni scholars that hold some weight instead of a random Sunni website.

And what about Misyar allowing the same thing? You seem to condemn mutah for it easily but if it's done with Misyar it's just fine *rolls eyes*

You do realize that the only reason I posted this was because you made the accusation against misyar marriages while not realizing that this condition applies in temporary marriages. Check out what you said in post #2164.

...and I'd still like a source.

It's funny that you only keep on listing Sistani sources, you do know that there are more Shia scholars than just Sistani, right?

Why do you speak like you could do any better?! I choose Sistani because he is the most popular contemporary Shia scholar. All you could do was a random Sunni website. =/

I did some more searching and that is the only website where I found such a thing said by Sistani. Although AlSeraj is reliable, that leads me to believe it's a weak ruling.

Do you mean that Sistani's ruling on the subject is flawed or that AlSeraj has got it wrong? I mean, I don't see how a Shia website could screw something up as big as legalizing prostitution and attribute it to the Grand Ayatollah, unless it was his statement in the first place of course.

I don't know what Shias you talk to, but no Shia I know, including myself, thinks the Quran is altered.

Of course, I'm not talking about average Shias, but I am talking about their major scholars of the past and the "infallible" Imams. Their books are filled with clear statements that the Qur'an is fabricated. I can provide references of course, all you have to do is name the scholar and inshallah I'll bring the proof.

For the record, I hold the same opinion about Mutah as you do about Misyar, and I think the majority of the Shia community does as well considering how looked down upon it is everywhere.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I think this is mainly the cause of Sunni attacks and mockery of the concept of Mut'ah though. It has been around for such a long time, that it is normal to feel shameful about it. However, all major Shia scholars have the opinion that temporary marriages are permissible. I can bring references too, if you name the scholar.

You painting all of Shias with one brush doesn't hold well for your argument.

Oh, I would never do such a thing. There are different types of Shias... Normal Shias, extreme Shias, and Rafidhees. In fact, there are some Shia scholars that Sunnis have accepted in the past, like Abu Abdullah Al-Hakim, Abdul-Razaq Al-Sana'ani, and Al-Nisa'ee. However, there "tashayu'a" is not an extreme form, which is why their works in hadith literature has been accepted by most Sunni scholars. =)

hmmmm I feel like I just tuned on HOT TOPICS on The View

Hahaha! Mashallah. =)

Unfortunately, you will see much more of it. Also, bro, beware of religious rulings from DSWii360 and GSG Flash. The Shia school of law is a very funky one that revolves around weak and rejected narrations from their "infallible" Imams.

In Sunnism, laws trace back to the Prophet (pbuh) and nobody else. Keep that in mind. =)

 

[AmMortal]

So, I read the article, and have tried to list my viewpoints on it, I copied it from my word file, so apologies for any mistake beforehand:

Bismillah wal salatu wal salamu ala rasool Allah, wa aalihi wa sahbihi wa man walaah, fa amma ba'ad:

The article written by Shahid Athar M.D. entitled "Some Common Misconceptions about Shi'ism" is a very poorly written article. Not only does the author lack knowledge of Shiasm, but of Sunnism as well. Perhaps, one of my main issues with the author is the lack of references. Alright, sure, so we have a Sunni that has a different take/view on Shiasm, but that isn't sufficient if he cannot perform the simplest task of citing references to give his opinion some sort of foundation.
Anyways, onto Athar's first statement:

The centuries-old Shia-Sunni differences are the major obstacle to Muslim unity. These differences have always been fanned by the enemies of Islam to their benefit. Unfortunately, some so-called Muslim scholars on their payroll have also played a key role in keeping these differences alive.

Unity between Sunnis and Shi'ites are impossible. How is it possible when both parties have major scholars calling each other infidels because of their rituals and practices. I'm not talking about your average scholar either. I'm talking about scholars that are regarded as real key players in the development of Sunni and Shi'ite law.
A good example of this would be the statements of Al-Mufid. Al-Mufid, a Shi'ite scholar from the fourth hijri century, was described as "one whose worth is known above any form of description in the fields of law, philosophy, narration and knowledge," by Al-Najashi, a famous Shi'ite hadith scholar. He was also the teacher of Al-Tusi.
In any case, Al-Mufid in Awa'il Al-Maqalaat states, "There is consensus amongst the Imaamiyyah (the Shi'ites) that whoever denies the Imaamah of anyone of the Imaams, and denies the duty of obedience to them that Allah has decreed, that such a person is a kafir (unbeliever), misguided, and that he deserves everlasting torment in hell."
From the Sunni side, there have been similar statements made by Imam Malik by damning those that curse the companions of the Prophet (pbuh).

Our families always respected Imam Hussain (peace be upon him) and his parents and participated in ceremonies marking the anniversary of his martyrdom (the 10th day of the month of Muharram which is called Ashura) by reciting the first chapter of the Quran (al-Fatihah) and other chapters and verses of the Quran and fasted on the ninth and tenth days of that month.

The practice of fasting on the tenth of the month of Muharram has been practiced by Sunnis since the time of the Prophet (pbuh). The hadith that is narrated by Ibn Abbas in Saheeh Al-Bukhari shows the Prophet (pbuh) ordering Muslims to fast on this day, for it was the day that Musa (Moses) (as) crossed the sea. (#4680) This has nothing to do with Shi'ite rituals that occur on the same day, that include beating yourself senseless because Al-Hussain, the grandson of the Prophet, was killed. (For those interested in checking out images, just google "shia blood". Viewer discretion is advised.) In any case, mentioning that you fast on this day has nothing to do with respecting Al-Hussain, and it a practice that has been around decades before his death, and is irrelevant to the topic.

In Islam there are five recognized schools of Divine Law:1) Hanafi;2) Shafi;3) Maliki;4) Hanbali and5) Jafari.

Actually, this is a false classification of the recognized schools. In Sunni law, yes, there are four schools that still exist today, which Athar has included. The fifth school, which is the Jafari school is not recognized by Sunnis. Also, none of these laws are "Divine Laws". Allah (swt) didn't create different laws and told the Muslims to choose whichever they liked. He created one law. However, what Athar is trying to do here is trying to show the legitimacy of the Jafari school by attributing the term "divine" to it.

The first four have many major theological differences among themselves.

This is a baseless statement. The four Sunni schools have differences of opinions in minor issues of LAW and not theology. Similarly, Shi'ite schools too suffer from differences of opinion when it comes to law as well. If there truly are theological differences between the Sunni schools of law, then it wouldn't be a problem for any Shi'ite to mention any theological differences between them.

Please note that Imam Jafar (peace be upon him), founder of the Shia school of law, was the teacher of Imam Abu-Hanifa (peace be upon him).

Even though this is true, what Athar isn't aware of is that Abu Hanifa had tens, if not hundreds of teachers. This is true in regards to all Islamic scholars. Knowledge isn't attained from one person alone. Stating that Jafar was Abu Hanifas teacher doesn’t hold much weight at all. Especially since Sunni sources doesn’t know the deviant Jafar of Shiasm. The Jafar of Shiasm was an "infallible" liar that taught innovation. In one narration, in Usool Al-Kafi, the most authentic Shi'ite book of traditions, he answers three men with different answers to the same question. When asked why, he states that this is to preserve the tradition of the Shi'ites.

Misconception #1: Shias have a different Quran. They add another 10 chapters to the original Quran.

This is not a misconception. There are books written by Shi'ite scholars about the subject. For example, Al-Nuri Al-Tabrasi's "Fasl Al-Khitab" in which he includes hundreds of Shi'ite hadith about the Qur'an being fabricated and the true Qur'an being with Al-Mahdi. (The long-awaited savior of Shiasm)
Major Shi'ite scholars that hold this opinion include, Al-Qumi the Qur'anic interpreter, Al-Kulaini the author of Usool Al-Kafi, and Mullah Baqir Al-Majlisi the greatest Shi'ite hadith scholar.

Misconception #3: Shias have different declarations of faith and they add to the call to prescribed prayer.
Response: The declaration to become a Muslim, as administered to non-Muslims, is the same. Some Shia add to themselves, "Ali is a friend of God (PBUH) or Ali is a spiritual leader of God," after the call to prescribed prayer, but not as part of the call to prescribed prayer.

This is a lie. "Ali is a ally/friend of God" does not occur outside the call to prayer, but within it.

Misconception #6: Shias slander and ridicule the first three caliphs (Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman) and Prophet Muhammad's wife, Ayisha.
Response: Shia consider the first three caliphs as great companions and good Muslim administrators, but not spiritual leaders (imams). Imam Jafar Sadiq, whose mother and grand mother came from the line of Abu Bakr, said of Abu Bakr, "He gave me birth twice." Ayisha is respected by Shias as the"Mother of Believers," as Ali respected her when he sent her back from Basra to Madinah after the Battle of the Camel. If some Shia do slander the three caliphs and Ayisha, they do it out of ignorance and should ask God's forgiveness.

How is this a misconception?!





Everything that is right, is from Allah,everything that is wrong, is through my own faults.

 

[Darackutny]

Whoa.

So much for "Misconceptions about Shiasm..." =/

 

[Darackutny]

Honestly, it's such a small thing compared to the bs being spread about our Prophet nowadays that I'm surprised you're making such a big stink about it.

One more thing...

Saying that the Prophet had a temporary marriage isn't a "small thing". I'm sick of dealing with this crap from atheists and Christians all the time, and I'm not putting up with you lot claiming that he had some sort of temporary marriage.

I do realize that your intentions are pure, but you need to make the effort with the new brothers instead of feeding them junk that you don't believe in. Because guess what?! The junk that you are feeding them is coming from a Muslim.

So once again, read your links before you spread them thinking that they contain truth.

Well the Prophet did say that you complete 50% of your religion if you get married, but technically you're right, you don't need either of those.

This is another example of carelessness. I've asked for a reference and you don't seem to have one. Are you claiming that the Prophet said this without having any proof of it?

 

[DSWii60]

AmMortal, I'm disappointed in you. Forget the new guy, I thought you at least would not fall for such talk.

Shia believe the Quran is whole as it is. There have been no alterations to the Quran and anyone who believes that there have been is not a Shia. FACT.

The definition of a kafir is someone who does not believe in the Tawheed of Allah. Since both Shias and Sunnis believe in Tawheed, neither are kafir. FACT.

Shias are not allowed to slander the Companions of the Prophet. Allah is the Judge and no one else should slander people based on what they think. FACT.

Shias should not "beat themselves senseless," as harming oneself is haram. Beating our chests on the day of Ashura is done as a symbolic gesture of grief and we are only supposed to do so gently, so no mark is left and we are not hurt. Let me give you an example of what I mean. You see Usain Bolt beating his chest to express his emotions, that's exactly what we do. He's not beating himself senseless, neither do we.

Let me point out again that the views of scholars and authors are simply views. I could find loads of Sunni scholars and authors who justify terrorism. But I would never presume that all Sunnis believe terrorism is justified.

I had a long discussion with Hadji previously in this thread about Shi'ism, which we ended as the thread was getting derailed with our arguments. I can only hope that you guys will also stop posting incorrect statement after incorrect statement and allow the thread to flourish without hate.

Edit: I love the way you guys slag off Imam Al-Sadiq and Ayatullah Al-Sistani whilst I'm defending the major personalities of your branch of Islam (the Companions).

Spoiler

/sarcasm

 

[GSG Flash]

First of all, I'm very sorry it has turned into another Shia-Sunni thing as I tried avoiding to bring this thread down in that direction, but unfortunately people like darackutny seem to enjoy creating divisions.

Since I really need to get studying, I'm only gonna partially respond

I don't think you are aware of what this part of the discussion is about. DSWii60 defended Sistani's legalizing of prostitution by saying that the only reason he said this is so that "they realise that they have a responsibility to look after each other and take care of each other." Your point here is irrelevant.



Happy? Did you even look at the name of the scholar that stated this?

"Fatwa answered by: The Fatwa Center at Islamweb"

I brought you statements from your Grand Ayatollah. Try statements from major Sunni scholars that hold some weight instead of a random Sunni website.

Unfortunately I don't know any websites of major Sunni scholars, if you want to link me to some in English (since I can't understand Arabic), I'll be glad to browse through them when I have the time. That link seemed legit enough since I saw quite a few sunnis quoting that site on forums and such in regards to misyar.

You do realize that the only reason I posted this was because you made the accusation against misyar marriages while not realizing that this condition applies in temporary marriages. Check out what you said in post #2164.

Actually, I made no accusation against Misyar, all I did was list other differences of misyar compared to traditional marriages that you conveniently left out to support your argument.

Why do you speak like you could do any better?! I choose Sistani because he is the most popular contemporary Shia scholar. All you could do was a random Sunni website. =/

Who said I could do any better, all that I was pointing out is that it's not as black and white with Shia scholars as you're making it out to be. For example, Ayatullah Khamanei has banned blood letting during Muharram while Ayatullah Sistani says it's undesirable.

Do you mean that Sistani's ruling on the subject is flawed or that AlSeraj has got it wrong? I mean, I don't see how a Shia website could screw something up as big as legalizing prostitution and attribute it to the Grand Ayatollah, unless it was his statement in the first place of course.

If you want to put it that way, I think AlSeraj screwed up because it's the only place I could find mentioning it. There are dozens of Sistani websites with his rulings, including his official one, but AlSeraj is the only one that has that ruling.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I think this is mainly the cause of Sunni attacks and mockery of the concept of Mut'ah though. It has been around for such a long time, that it is normal to feel shameful about it. However, all major Shia scholars have the opinion that temporary marriages are permissible. I can bring references too, if you name the scholar.

It has nothing to do with Sunni attacks because I hold the same view of misyar as well.

Hahaha! Mashallah. =)

Unfortunately, you will see much more of it. Also, bro, beware of religious rulings from DSWii360 and GSG Flash. The Shia school of law is a very funky one that revolves around weak and rejected narrations from their "infallible" Imams.

In Sunnism, laws trace back to the Prophet (pbuh) and nobody else. Keep that in mind. =)

Yeah, screw you too buddy. I never claimed to be a scholar and that's why I asked Himu and S&C to read up on Shi'ism themselves so I won't give them misinformation.

I don't know how you can claim that the Sunni laws trace straight back to the Prophet with a straight face. Do Sunnis not follow hadiths anymore? The earliest of the Sunni hadith collection, the Sahih Bukhari, was completed over 200 years after the Prophets death. Unless it came from the Prophet directly, like the Quran, that's a pretty loaded statement to make.

Unity between Sunnis and Shi'ites are impossible. How is it possible when both parties have major scholars calling each other infidels because of their rituals and practices. I'm not talking about your average scholar either. I'm talking about scholars that are regarded as real key players in the development of Sunni and Shi'ite law.
A good example of this would be the statements of Al-Mufid. Al-Mufid, a Shi'ite scholar from the fourth hijri century, was described as "one whose worth is known above any form of description in the fields of law, philosophy, narration and knowledge," by Al-Najashi, a famous Shi'ite hadith scholar. He was also the teacher of Al-Tusi.
In any case, Al-Mufid in Awa'il Al-Maqalaat states, "There is consensus amongst the Imaamiyyah (the Shi'ites) that whoever denies the Imaamah of anyone of the Imaams, and denies the duty of obedience to them that Allah has decreed, that such a person is a kafir (unbeliever), misguided, and that he deserves everlasting torment in hell."
From the Sunni side, there have been similar statements made by Imam Malik by damning those that curse the companions of the Prophet (pbuh).

I agree that damning statements from scholars on both sides make unity hard to achieve, but I disagree that it's impossible. It's impossible to agree on everything above the basic fundamentals of Islam, but when it comes to the basic foundations and fundamentals of Islam itself both sects are equal and in agreement.

The practice of fasting on the tenth of the month of Muharram has been practiced by Sunnis since the time of the Prophet (pbuh). The hadith that is narrated by Ibn Abbas in Saheeh Al-Bukhari shows the Prophet (pbuh) ordering Muslims to fast on this day, for it was the day that Musa (Moses) (as) crossed the sea. (#4680) This has nothing to do with Shi'ite rituals that occur on the same day, that include beating yourself senseless because Al-Hussain, the grandson of the Prophet, was killed. (For those interested in checking out images, just google "shia blood". Viewer discretion is advised.) In any case, mentioning that you fast on this day has nothing to do with respecting Al-Hussain, and it a practice that has been around decades before his death, and is irrelevant to the topic.

But I have observed Sunnis do fast and mourn the death of Imam Hussain on the day of Ashura so author is not all incorrect on that.

Also, like I said above, bloodletting is actually banned with some shia scholars, and Sistani says it's undesirable. Like junior over there, you're painting all shias with one brush. I am strictly against any form of bloodletting, or even hitting yourself enough to show visible injury, and I wish every Shia that does it would end their practice of doing so.

Actually, this is a false classification of the recognized schools. In Sunni law, yes, there are four schools that still exist today, which Athar has included. The fifth school, which is the Jafari school is not recognized by Sunnis. Also, none of these laws are "Divine Laws". Allah (swt) didn't create different laws and told the Muslims to choose whichever they liked. He created one law. However, what Athar is trying to do here is trying to show the legitimacy of the Jafari school by attributing the term "divine" to it.

Sunnis don't recognize the Jafari school of thought the same way Shias don't recognize the Sunni schools of thought, but the head of Al-Azhar university in Egypt in the 60's did say:

Islam does not require a Muslim to follow a particular Madh'hab (school of thought). Rather, we say: every Muslim has the right to follow one of the schools of thought which has been correctly narrated and its verdicts have been compiled in its books. And, everyone who is following such Madhahib [schools of thought] can transfer to another school, and there shall be no crime on him for doing so. The Ja'fari school of thought, which is also known as "al-Shia al-Imamiyyah al-Ithna Ashariyyah" (i.e., The Twelver Imami Shi'ites) is a school of thought that is religiously correct to follow in worship as are other Sunni schools of thought.

Which I would agree with completely.

Even though this is true, what Athar isn't aware of is that Abu Hanifa had tens, if not hundreds of teachers. This is true in regards to all Islamic scholars. Knowledge isn't attained from one person alone. Stating that Jafar was Abu Hanifas teacher doesn’t hold much weight at all. Especially since Sunni sources doesn’t know the deviant Jafar of Shiasm. The Jafar of Shiasm was an "infallible" liar that taught innovation. In one narration, in Usool Al-Kafi, the most authentic Shi'ite book of traditions, he answers three men with different answers to the same question. When asked why, he states that this is to preserve the tradition of the Shi'ites.

AmMortal, I'm disappointed, I expected these types of strong unwarranted accusations from darackutny, but not from you. Imam Jafar Sadiq is respected by both Sunnis and Shias and what you just said is the first time I've heard either Sunni or Shia disrespect the Imam so greatly.

This is a lie. "Ali is a ally/friend of God" does not occur outside the call to prayer, but within it.

What you just said is a lie as I never have said or heard "Ali is a friend of god" within the call to prayer. Not to mention that saying "Ali is a friend of god" is not necessary at all.

One more thing...

Saying that the Prophet had a temporary marriage isn't a "small thing". I'm sick of dealing with this crap from atheists and Christians all the time, and I'm not putting up with you lot claiming that he had some sort of temporary marriage.

Screw you again for claiming me of saying something I never did, I actually agreed with you that the author was mistaken.

I do realize that your intentions are pure, but you need to make the effort with the new brothers instead of feeding them junk that you don't believe in. Because guess what?! The junk that you are feeding them is coming from a Muslim.

So once again, read your links before you spread them thinking that they contain truth.

I did read them, and like I said, any mistakes in the article that I did not catch on to is because I'm still learning like everyone else.

This is another example of carelessness. I've asked for a reference and you don't seem to have one. Are you claiming that the Prophet said this without having any proof of it?

Google "marriage half of religion islam", seriously, you'll get hundreds of links that say the same thing. I heard/read that statement when I was like 11 or 12 and I don't remember where it came from.

And I'm just going to ignore the "shias believe the Quran is made up" bullshit because I can't believe you guys would make such ludicrous assertions, go read a Quran that any Shia owns, you won't find anything different from your "pure untouched" Quran.

 

[Darackutny]

AmMortal, I'm disappointed in you. Forget the new guy, I thought you at least would not fall for such talk.

Shia believe the Quran is whole as it is. There have been no alterations to the Quran and anyone who believes that there have been is not a Shia. FACT.

AmMortal has already responded to this by saying:

"Major Shi'ite scholars that hold this opinion include, Al-Qumi the Qur'anic interpreter, Al-Kulaini the author of Usool Al-Kafi, and Mullah Baqir Al-Majlisi the greatest Shi'ite hadith scholar."

Are you saying that there these great scholars are not Shias? Then what are they? Would you like references?

The definition of a kafir is someone who does not believe in the Tawheed of Allah. Since both Shias and Sunnis believe in Tawheed, neither are kafir. FACT.

An unbeliever can believe in Tawheed (monotheism) while practicing against it. Similarly, those that supplicate through the dead are clearly going against Qur'anic teachings by doing so. The concept of monotheism is a very interesting one. Many people think that it is a small issue, while in reality it is the foundation of the religion.

I'm surprised that you don't seem aware that our concepts of monotheism are different. Sunnis forbid these types of intercession. While Shias ask their Imams for help and support even though they are dead.

13:14 "Unto Him is the real prayer. Those unto whom they pray beside Allah respond to them not at all, save as (is the response to) one who stretcheth forth his hands toward water (asking) that it may come unto his mouth, and it will never reach it."

22:62 "That is because Allah, He is the True, and that whereon they call instead of Him, it is the false, and because Allah, He is the High, the Great."

Shias are not allowed to slander the Companions of the Prophet. Allah is the Judge and no one else should slander people based on what they think. FACT.

I'm not bothered to run around looking for quotes about cursing the first three caliphs, so I'm going to make this easy. Is it permissible to curse Mu'awiyah bin abi Sufyan?

Let me point out again that the views of scholars and authors are simply views. I could find loads of Sunni scholars and authors who justify terrorism. But I would never presume that all Sunnis believe terrorism is justified.

Actually, you wouldn't be able to. There are no Sunni scholars that justify terrorism. Also, those that have done so, have been condemned by the real scholars as "Khawarij". You see the difference between what I am doing and what you are doing is that I am bringing quotes from you major scholars, while you are planning to quote our outcasts that have already been condemned.

I can only hope that you guys will also stop posting incorrect statement after incorrect statement and allow the thread to flourish without hate.

I don't mind stopping here as long as you stop propagating your beliefs. =)

Edit: I love the way you guys slag off Imam Al-Sadiq and Ayatullah Al-Sistani whilst I'm defending the major personalities of your branch of Islam (the Companions).

Spoiler

/sarcasm

Who needs your help?! I won't put a smile on my face when someone spreads false information about my religion and I don't expect you to do the same. There is no hypocrisy in my heart, and if I feel one way, I will not act in another.

-----------------

Unfortunately I don't know any websites of major Sunni scholars, if you want to link me to some in English (since I can't understand Arabic), I'll be glad to browse through them when I have the time.

Get a friend to help you.

That link seemed legit enough since I saw quite a few sunnis quoting that site on forums and such in regards to misyar.

The legit link is a random Sunni website that doesn't include a name of a scholar?! You sure got some low standards when it comes to fishing out arguments dude.

If you want to put it that way, I think AlSeraj screwed up because it's the only place I could find mentioning it. There are dozens of Sistani websites with his rulings, including his official one, but AlSeraj is the only one that has that ruling.

Mashallah, so, if an authentic website has information that cannot be found elsewhere, then it is false?! Is this the same methodology you use before adopting any new views? Do you seriously check two or more "authentic" websites before you make any decision in regards to your faith? Or are you just rejecting this statement that was found on this site because it goes against your desires and makes your Grand Ayatollah look bad? Once again, "I don't see how a Shia website could screw something up as big as legalizing prostitution and attribute it to the Grand Ayatollah, unless it was his statement in the first place of course."

It has nothing to do with Sunni attacks because I hold the same view of misyar as well.

Honestly, I find it very strange that you hold the position that temporary marriages are forbidden in Shiasm. Do you have any scholars that believe this? Or is this just something you hear from friends at school?

I don't know how you can claim that the Sunni laws trace straight back to the Prophet with a straight face. Do Sunnis not follow hadiths anymore? The earliest of the Sunni hadith collection, the Sahih Bukhari, was completed over 200 years after the Prophets death. Unless it came from the Prophet directly, like the Quran, that's a pretty loaded statement to make.

Wow. You need to do some research before saying something so bold. First of all, compilations of hadith in Sunni history started around the year 100 AH, during the reign of Omar bin Abdul Aziz. So, you are a century off, but that is just a minor detail. Also, even though Muslims were late with compiling hadiths, they were known for writing the hadiths down from the time of the Prophet. You need to differentiate between writing down hadiths and compiling them into forms of books.

Also, if you want to play the history card with me, then it will work in my favor and not yours. Al-Kafi by Al-Kulayni, Sheikh Saduq, and Abu Ja'afar Al-Tusi are all four century scholars, so if we were to assume that Sunni hadith is weak due to the compilations being late, then even more can be said about Shiasm that was 200-300 years slower.

Imam Jafar Sadiq is respected by both Sunnis and Shias and what you just said is the first time I've heard either Sunni or Shia disrespect the Imam so greatly.

I believe that AmMortal is referring to the Shia view of Jafar Al-Sadiq, which is something I understand, since he teaches his people to lie when it comes to religious affairs.

http://www.alseraj.net/maktaba/kotob/hadith/kafi2/html/ara/books/al-kafi-2/94.html

I hope you would just reject those hadiths because they are from Alseraj again.

What you just said is a lie as I never have said or heard "Ali is a friend of god" within the call to prayer. Not to mention that saying "Ali is a friend of god" is not necessary at all.

I live about five minutes away from a Shia mosque. Would you like me to get a sound recording for you? I really don't mind.

Google "marriage half of religion islam", seriously, you'll get hundreds of links that say the same thing.

Last time I check, Shaikh Google isn't certified to authenticate or weaken hadiths. If you are willing to share hadiths so loosely, then you should check their level of authenticity, unless you don't mind attributing lies to the Prophet.

I heard/read that statement when I was like 11 or 12 and I don't remember where it came from.

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[DSWii60]

AmMortal has already responded to this by saying:

"Major Shi'ite scholars that hold this opinion include, Al-Qumi the Qur'anic interpreter, Al-Kulaini the author of Usool Al-Kafi, and Mullah Baqir Al-Majlisi the greatest Shi'ite hadith scholar."

Are you saying that there these great scholars are not Shias? Then what are they? Would you like references?

References, of course, would be nice.

A major difference between Shias and Sunnis which you fail to understand is the position on hadith. Whilst Sunnis have books that are regarded as "sahih" (all hadith contained in them are correct), Shias have no such books. You yourself said Sahih Bukhari was compiled a 100 years after the death of the Prophet so how can you claim that there is no chance an incorrect hadith might have slipped in there. I, on the other hand, do not claim Al-Kafi is perfect because it was compiled by a man not by Allah. Only the Quran is perfect.

On that note, a hadith compiled by Al Kulaini, firstly does not necessarily represent his views and secondly does not have to be an authentic hadith.

An unbeliever can believe in Tawheed (monotheism) while practicing against it. Similarly, those that supplicate through the dead are clearly going against Qur'anic teachings by doing so. The concept of monotheism is a very interesting one. Many people think that it is a small issue, while in reality it is the foundation of the religion.

I'm surprised that you don't seem aware that our concepts of monotheism are different. Sunnis forbid these types of intercession. While Shias ask their Imams for help and support even though they are dead.

13:14 "Unto Him is the real prayer. Those unto whom they pray beside Allah respond to them not at all, save as (is the response to) one who stretcheth forth his hands toward water (asking) that it may come unto his mouth, and it will never reach it."

22:62 "That is because Allah, He is the True, and that whereon they call instead of Him, it is the false, and because Allah, He is the High, the Great."

Ah, intercession. That subject so often brought up by our Sunni brothers.

We don't "pray" to our Imams. We ask them to pray for us. Just like when someone asks you to pray for them if they e.g. have an exam, we ask our Imams to pray for us on our behalf.

In any case, this not just a Shia belief. Hanafis also allow intercession:

Tawassul can be carried out through one’s own righteous deeds, the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), righteous people who have passed away and those who are still alive. All these types of Tawassul are permitted and acceptable.

“If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you (O Muhammad, Allah bless him & give him peace) and asked Allah’s forgiveness, and the Messenger of Allah had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed forgiving and Most Merciful”. (Surah al-Nisa, V: 64)

These two verses are clear on the permissibility and recommendation of Tawassul. The distinction made by some, between the living and the dead in this matter only comes from one who believes in the perishing of souls upon death, which would lead to denying resurrection.

Moreover, Imam Tabrani relates in his al-Mu’jam al-Kabir reporting from the same Uthman ibn Hunaif (Allah be pleased with him) that a person repeatedly visited him concerning something he needed, but Uthman paid no attention to him. The man met his son and complained to him about the matter- this was after the death of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and after the eras of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr and Sayyiduna Umar (Allah be pleased with them)- so Uthman (who collected Hadith and was from the learned) said : “Go to the place of Wudu, then come to the Masjid, perform two Rak’ats and then say : “O Allah!, I ask you and turn to you through our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad! I turn through you to my lord, that He fulfil my need”....... until the end of the Hadith.

This is an explicit and clear text from a Companion (sahabi) proving the legal validity of Tawassul through the dead. The Hadith has been classed as authentic (Sahih) by al-Bayhaqi, Mundhiri, al-Haythami and many others.

Happy? Read the article I linked. There's much more there.

I'm not bothered to run around looking for quotes about cursing the first three caliphs, so I'm going to make this easy. Is it permissible to curse Mu'awiyah bin abi Sufyan?

I'm not going to deny there are Shias who curse the first three Caliphs, but they should not do so. Just like you should not be calling a man such as Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq a liar.

I don't mind stopping here as long as you stop propagating your beliefs. =)

:lol "Oh, I don't mind stopping. Just so long as you shut up and let me get away with saying what I want about Shia'ism." That's the undiluted version of what you're trying to say.

You may notice this is the Official Islam Thread. Last I checked we were all Muslims so we're all allowed to contribute in any way we like. It's upto others to decide whether they agree with us or not.

You'll notice that until you came along, this thread was going along nicely with the new Muslims asking questions, getting them answered, and being exposed to different points of views, but ultimately making up their own minds. You've managed to destroy that and spectularly turn us against each other by bringing up completely incorrect views about Shia'ism.

Debating in circles is boring, so I gave up half way through replying to your post. You're clearly never going to change your perception of Shia'ism, but if anyone else has any question I'd be happy to clear anything up.