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[Madman]

man what is tearing. I have never noticed this thing. I mean I know it exists but what exactly is it?

Nobody tell him. Once you see it, you'll probably notice it every time.

^^
wowzers, thats pretty damn bad. I shouldn't have asked cause now I will notice this everywhere

Too late.

 

[steve]

Was not much severe (I'd say from 30 to 25fps), and happened only when the bridge came into view from a realitevly close distance.

I can live with this.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Do you have the Heavenly Sword demo? If you use the camera positioning function when you're standing still, you'll see screen tearing.

 

[TTP]

As long as it doesn't have a Saint's Row amount of tearing or a Driver 3 amount of framerate drops, it's all good.

Zero tearing thats for sure.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

Do you have the Heavenly Sword demo? If you use the camera positioning function when you're standing still, you'll see screen tearing.

yes I have it and no im not going to do this cause I am a total graphics whore and crap like this will make me jaded like most of Gaf.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

yes I have it and no im not going to do this cause I am a total graphics whore and crap like this will make me jaded like most of Gaf.

Well, it's really only an issue when it becomes the norm rather than the odd flaw. People say that it's there in MotorStorm, and I can't see it. I can however spot it in just about every Clancy game I've ever played.

 

[Madman]

Well, it's really only an issue when it becomes the norm rather than the odd flaw. People say that it's there in MotorStorm, and I can't see it. I can however spot it in just about every Clancy game I've ever played.

I've seen it. It's there, it's just not major.

I'm not much of a graphics whore myslef. I can take pretty much anything aside from Saint's Row scale problems. That game is just ridiculous. Maybe I'll hate it more once I get a HD TV.

 

[Trevelyan]

Well, it's really only an issue when it becomes the norm rather than the odd flaw. People say that it's there in MotorStorm, and I can't see it. I can however spot it in just about every Clancy game I've ever played.

People have actually said there is tearing in Motorstorm? I usually have a pretty good eye for it but I've never noticed it - not once. Back on topic thanks for great impressions TTP. I am pretty damn sure this will be my dream game, and a few negative reviews aren't going to deter my perception on the game.

 

[Dante]

First of all I liked the tutorial menu. It's all done with those flying rings u probably saw in the controls tutorial video. They are also used as "access points" to various sections of the whole tutorial thing. Very cool.

In the chapter selection screen you scroll chapter normally at the bottom of the screen using the stick or the dpad (IIRC) but up there in the middle of the screen you can toy around with a 3D dragon flying over a world map by moving the controller. Another nice touch.

Game. I played the "bridge level" (which is basically the first one I think) and I must admit I mostly did that to check out the frame rate. Which was good fot the most part, but suffered a bit at the bridge. This pissed me to no end, but that's the graphic whore in me.

Controls, as I said, were spot on. No problems AT ALL except when trying to do the 180° turn (pull the controller towards yourself). In tha case, I couldnt manage to make it work 100% of the times. Flying and dashing: no prob. Jerking the controller sideways to hit dragons during the "close combat" moments: no prob. Fighting the dragons using standard button combos: I just pushed buttons until win without really trying to understand what I was doing.

Mission flow. Lots of stuff going on simultaneously but, prob cos it was early level, you were give "orders" so that u had to do your stuff in order. IIRC first part was about destroying ships, then I was asked to kill some dragons and then those taurus came and I had to address them (I could either kill them on the ground or do a lock on targert + fly-by so that my dragon would grab them and toss them into the sea). Despite the mess of all this, I didnt feel as much lost as I expected. Which is good. Also, a special "vision" allows u to see which are the enemies in the mess (everything goes black and white except your targets which turn red). This was very useful cos at first I was all enjoying myself killing soldiers on the ground until a Factor 5 guy passed by, watched me playing from above my shoulder and after a while whispered in my ear: "those are your guys". Ooops. Ah, there are two type of flame attacks. Dont recall which button does it, but if u push it once you send a fireball. If you keep it pressed you vomit continuous fire. makes sense I guess.

Overall it was pretty fun albeit a bit "disjointed". I mean, it was ok to be given specific orders in that mess but on the other hand It distrupted the feeling of being part of an ongoing battle by cutting it in chunks (the ships attack one, the dragons one, the tauri one and so on). Hard to explain. Anyway, was first, introduction level so... Dragon wasn't as fast as I hoped but the cool thing is you dont have to "manually" get close to you target. You just lock him from the distance and do a dash move so that you sprint immediately towards him and start the close combat thing.

Thanks man, I got more from that from reading some number.

 

[Madman]

People have actually said there is tearing in Motorstorm? I usually have a pretty good eye for it but I've never noticed it - not once.

I could point out when it's most noticable, but somehow I think you guys would rather not hear.

 

[steve]

Just watched that video, damn that looks fun.

 

[methane47]

I am mostly oblivious to screen tearing.. Even in the worst occassions the fact that the tear isn't stagnant on screen is more than enough to not even worry me in the slightest.

Screen tearing is a very tiny tiny issue to me.

 

[Dave1988]

More positive input:

Hey guys,

I just skimmed the ginormous thread about some magazine giving Lair some pretty low scores.

Before I go any further, I'd like to give you some advice: for God's sake take it easy. Do guys realize you are being riled up over a game? The more fanatic of you remind me of some the fanboyism that plagued the Comic-con this year.

Please don't forget why we are playing games in the first place: to provide a temporary escape from our otherwise hectic/senseless/painful lives. If you want to fight over this as if you were fighting over religion, then you've got the wrong hobby.

Now:

I finally got the chance to give Lair a good 20 minutes of play time at the Comic-con. Quite frankly, "disappointed" is the very last term I'd use to describe my feelings towards Lair. In fact, it's more along the lines of "I can't wait for August 14th to come around".

First, what seems to matter to you the most; the controls. Let me be honest: most first-time Lair players will NOT get a grip with the controls from the get-go. This is why Factor 5 have assembled a series of practice tutorials that you can use to hone you're dragon-flying skills. These tutorials include basic/advanced flight maneuvers, and basic/advanced combat techniques. It is IMPERATIVE that you pass all of these tutorials before you play the game and end up bitching about the controls.

Once I was done with all the tutorials, I was given a choice of levels to choose from over a map. Factor 5 seemed to use disjointed Arabic letters for the map locations, apparently to give it a sense of mysticism. For an Arabic speaker like myself, I found it to be both silly and a bit of an honor. Moving on...

The level I chose was the now infamous bridge level.

Visuals: Once the level booted up, the production levels behind the game just hit me in the face like a train. Intricately designed bridges, massive armies, huge sense of scope, majestic looking water, and of course: your own dragon, which itself is a spectacle in in-game animation. When you you witness all of these things on your screen at once, prepare for a change of underwear. On the demo I played, there were STILL issues with the framerate, especially when you get close to the bridge for landing amongst the army. I asked the Sony rep if the final game will have any framerate problems. He said: "Probably not, because Factor 5 finished the game a few days ago." Things to note: high-polygon beasties, beautiful water effects, and the best in-game dragon animations ever. To say that this game is eye-candy is an understatement.

Mid-air controls: smooth and easy as pie (bare in mind that I spent some time with the tutorials to get the hang of things). Between level objectives, there is nothing more satisfying than swooping around the bridge and shooting down a few dragons and engaging in mid-air combat. The sock-puppetry of the mid-air fights are gone, and now your dragon transitions smoothly from one well placed claw-swipe to a streaming breath of fire. Needless to say, these scenes are some of the coolest in the game.

Ground controls: Not as easy, but not a complete disaster either. You have the choice of swiping te enemy with your claws, shooting fire, or stomping the ground. The biggest problem here was the camera, where it almost always gives you a fine view of your dragon's arse. This definitely doesn't help if you have soldiers throwing harpoons at you from behind, or if you have a giant rhino charging in to ram you. I wasn't aware if this problem will be remedied by the game's release, or if there were any camera controls to try and improve the situation.

A couple more minutes later and I was done, desperately hungry for more.

Now, with all due respect to some reviewers out there, what I played was (IMHO) NOT average gaming material. The visuals don't allow it, its production values don't allow it, the gameplay doesn't allow it. All this said, one man's trash can always be another man's treasure, so my advice to you is to wait for the demo, download it, play it, be floored, then frantically run for your nearest game store to secure yourself a copy of what is sure to be one of the most memorable gaming experiences on the PS3 this year.

- H

 

[KTallguy]

Good post. Maybe EGM's review is a fluke. I want to believe.

 

[RavenFox]

Good post. Maybe EGM's review is a fluke. I want to believe.

Wouldnt be suprised. Great review there by the H man

 

[Firewire]

I never based my game purchases on reviews from EGM & never will. The same can be said for the 1UP guys, I have no faith in them either. There is only 1 place I take reviews from seriously, because they have never steered me wrong.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

And just who is this "H man"?

 

[Tideas]

OMG?!?!?!?! Someone actually giving a positive review to Lair!?!! A PS3 Game???? That must be fake :lol

In all seriousness, I just love the bots and overreaction. Thanks for the preview H.

 

[steve]

And just who is this "H man"?

Just a regular guy on IGN's boards that got a chance to try the game out at ComicCon.

 

[MercuryLS]

^^
wowzers, thats pretty damn bad. I shouldn't have asked cause now I will notice this everywhere

It's better not knowing about it :/

 

[TTP]

And just who is this "H man"?

Someone who basically shares my very same impressions about the game. So he must be a good guy

 

[kaching]

Impressions of a demo vs. reviews of the full game. Come on, guys.

 

[TTP]

Impressions of a demo vs. reviews of the full game. Come on, guys.

I think what the reviewers complain about (mostly controls right) can be judged in a demo?

 

[Patrickula]

There is only 1 place I take reviews from seriously, because they have never steered me wrong.

Where is that?

 

[tanod]

Tutorials in the review code???

Where is that?

If the answer to that is IGN, I'm going to projectile vomit at my computer screen.

 

[RavenFox]

Tutorials in the review code???


If the answer to that is IGN, I'm going to projectile vomit at my computer screen.

I think he meant himself. I think

Spoiler

I hope

edit: whoops he said they sooooo

 

[kaching]

I think what the reviewers complain about (mostly controls right) can be judged in a demo?

To the extent of how well the controls work within one area of the game, yes. Other areas could possibly expose weaknesses in the control system.

 

[arias]

To the extent of how well the controls work within one area of the game, yes. Other areas could possibly expose weaknesses in the control system.

Or it might not.


What's your point?


x

 

[nelsonroyale]

Nice impressions there, Im still hyped for this...Honestly it seems like there is a personal factor in the egm review, just didnt click

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

And just who is this "H man"?

All i know that his name is Hassoon and he is born in 1983, and he was at comic-con... :/

He also reviewed couple of other demos, which didn't show any sign of fanboyism though. Oh well, ill wait for more reviews

 

[kaching]

Or it might not.

Yes, of course.

What's your point?

That trying to offset negative reviews of the full game with positive impressions from a demo limited to a couple of areas isn't a good idea. That's all.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Yes, of course.
That trying to offset negative reviews of the full game with positive impressions from a demo limited to a couple of areas isn't a good idea. That's all.

true...thing is though, I find this score abit strange....I mean most of the stuff that scores 4 or 5s I could barely play unless I was paid...Personally I thought the games production alone would score it highly..since they praise the graphics and score...I mean its probably a lower score than Pirates of the Caribbean and no one praised that game (apart from graphics). Also, while people around here don't seem to respect Play (I dont even know them), the guy who reviewed it there did seem to enjoy the game...Im on the fence because Ive never payed any attention to EGM reviews before at all, or any single review...but the score is VERY low

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Maybe you are thinking of Killzone: Liberation. The reviewer in question or someone else at 1up did stealth edit the review. And it was later denied by 1up.

Yeah, the stealth edit and subsequent denial of the stealth edit was just the icing on the cake for that whole Killzone: Liberation review debacle.

That event really opened my eyes to 1Up's ongoing problems with professionalism.

 

[Hypern0va]

Eh, I don't understand what the big deal is here.

First of all, if you played the game and liked it, then good for you, enjoy it and play it, have a good time.

I don't get what people are going so crazy about. Lair to me always looked like a pretty lame and stupid game, but that is just my opinion, just like it's EGM's opinion that rated the game low. Just because EGM doesn't like the game shouldn't take away any enjoyment you might have for the game, if you like the game a bad review shouldn't change a damn thing.

Now I think what is really going on is that some of you are just too stubborn and/or desperate for a good PS3 game to admit that EGM might actually be right. Even you people who played it at Comic-con. Can you really compare playing a quick demo in a crowded convention to sitting down and reviewing the entire game? No, you can't, so stop trying. You can't write a review of a game based on one level, you have to play the whole thing. Even so, if you actually liked it, then you have nothing to fear from EGM's low score. It seems to me like most of you are just in severe denial and you are afraid to admit that Lair might actually suck.

 

[KTallguy]

Yeah, the stealth edit and subsequent denial of the stealth edit was just the icing on the cake for that whole Killzone: Liberation review debacle.

That event really opened my eyes to 1Up's ongoing problems with professionalism.

I didn't know about this.
Can anyone clue me in on exactly what happened ?

It seems to me like most of you are just in severe denial and you are afraid to admit that Lair might actually suck.

It seems that most of us have not played the game, so we're interested in hearing opinions on it before we take the plunge and buy it.

But thanks for your informative post.

 

[arias]

That trying to offset negative reviews of the full game with positive impressions from a demo limited to a couple of areas isn't a good idea. That's all.

And why not? It's none of your business.

I have some respect for EGM having subscribed to them a long time ago, and I'm curious how the scores can cluster so neatly at that region. So far only EGM has a negative review (I consider them a single unit). I want to see at least 5 more reviews so we can get a sense of things. Of course, most importantly, I want to see the player impressions on this thread on Aug 14th.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Good post. Maybe EGM's review is a fluke. I want to believe.

One bad review can be a fluke but all three EGM reviews gave around a 5.5. It is very strange how the game can score that low however given the high production/presentation that went with the game *and* the generally positive initial impressions. It must take a steep drop later on.

 

[arias]

Yeah, the stealth edit and subsequent denial of the stealth edit was just the icing on the cake for that whole Killzone: Liberation review debacle.

That event really opened my eyes to 1Up's ongoing problems with professionalism.

The Killzone 2 preview stealth edit by Matt Leone, with an insert to qualify that Killzone 2's graphics is still a shade off Gears of War was a bitter spit. It was utterly unprofessional and unneeded. Complete wanker.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Eh, I don't understand what the big deal is here.

First of all, if you played the game and liked it, then good for you, enjoy it and play it, have a good time.

I don't get what people are going so crazy about. Lair to me always looked like a pretty lame and stupid game, but that is just my opinion, just like it's EGM's opinion that rated the game low. Just because EGM doesn't like the game shouldn't take away any enjoyment you might have for the game, if you like the game a bad review shouldn't change a damn thing.

Now I think what is really going on is that some of you are just too stubborn and/or desperate for a good PS3 game to admit that EGM might actually be right. Even you people who played it at Comic-con. Can you really compare playing a quick demo in a crowded convention to sitting down and reviewing the entire game? No, you can't, so stop trying. You can't write a review of a game based on one level, you have to play the whole thing. Even so, if you actually liked it, then you have nothing to fear from EGM's low score. It seems to me like most of you are just in severe denial and you are afraid to admit that Lair might actually suck.

Eh, do you work for egm...seems like you are going to some length to 'defend' there decision...For me personally, Im not saying in anyway that the game is going be good...I just had some genuine interest in this game...and Ive never relied on one publication to make my decision..I dont think Ive ever bought a game that scored this low...but on the other hand it got a good review from another publication...Ill wait for a few more reviews to see if I keep my preorder

 

[KTallguy]

The Killzone 2 preview stealth edit by Matt Leone, with an insert to qualify that Killzone 2's graphics is still a shade off Gears of War was a bitter spit. It was utterly unprofessional and unneeded. Complete wanker.

Yea I noticed that. Why did that happen?

 

[arias]

Yea I noticed that. Why did that happen?

Who knows?

Probably an Xbot who got frustrated at all the Sonybot's overhype drive all over the net. Even NeoGAF collapsed because of Killzone 2, come on : p Whatever the ridiculous responses of Sony fanboys, doing that stealth edit was unwarranted.

x

 

[Jirotrom]

Eh, I don't understand what the big deal is here.

First of all, if you played the game and liked it, then good for you, enjoy it and play it, have a good time.

I don't get what people are going so crazy about. Lair to me always looked like a pretty lame and stupid game, but that is just my opinion, just like it's EGM's opinion that rated the game low. Just because EGM doesn't like the game shouldn't take away any enjoyment you might have for the game, if you like the game a bad review shouldn't change a damn thing.

Now I think what is really going on is that some of you are just too stubborn and/or desperate for a good PS3 game to admit that EGM might actually be right. Even you people who played it at Comic-con. Can you really compare playing a quick demo in a crowded convention to sitting down and reviewing the entire game? No, you can't, so stop trying. You can't write a review of a game based on one level, you have to play the whole thing. Even so, if you actually liked it, then you have nothing to fear from EGM's low score. It seems to me like most of you are just in severe denial and you are afraid to admit that Lair might actually suck.

Funny part is that a lot of reviewers do not completly finish the game they are reviewing...hence why I get iffy on reviews.

 

[methane47]

Who knows?

Probably an Xbot who got frustrated at all the Sonybot's overhype drive all over the net. Even NeoGAF collapsed because of Killzone 2, come on : p Whatever the ridiculous responses of Sony fanboys, doing that stealth edit was unwarranted.

x

Wait What? 1up previewed Killzone 2 .. and then stealth editted the preview to say that GEARS OF WAR looks better?!?!

ghahahahahah
WTF?

 

[Razoric]

Yeah, the stealth edit and subsequent denial of the stealth edit was just the icing on the cake for that whole Killzone: Liberation review debacle.

That event really opened my eyes to 1Up's ongoing problems with professionalism.

Explain please... I've missed or forgot about this.

 

[kaching]

And why not? It's none of your business.

:lol Back up and start over. It's as much "my business" as it your business to challenge me on this. Which is to say, we're both entitled to our opinion.

Long before you got posting privileges for this place, I've been looking forward to this game. You seem to be operating under different assumptions so perhaps you may want to take a minute to familiarize yourself with my posting history related to Lair before you continue.

If EGM's scores are to be legitimately discredited, it's going to have be based on full access to the final game code, for significantly longer than 20 minutes.

 

[methane47]

Funny part is that a lot of reviewers do not completly finish the game they are reviewing...hence why I get iffy on reviews.

some reviews of Resistance FOM comes to mind at this point...

"oohhh boo hoo.. the first level is just like Call of Duty!!! its just a WWII shooter with aliens.. blah blah.."

 

[Pristine_Condition]

The Killzone 2 preview stealth edit by Matt Leone, with an insert to qualify that Killzone 2's graphics is still a shade off Gears of War was a bitter spit. It was utterly unprofessional and unneeded. Complete wanker.

That's not what I'm talking about. I could really care less about that one, mostly because I didn't see that one with my own eyes, and can't confirm it.

The Killzone: Liberation stealth edit I did witness first-hand.

I didn't know about this.
Can anyone clue me in on exactly what happened ?

Just another case of "nobody gets anything past NeoGAF." In this case, NeoGAFer Blunty.


First off, Killzone: Liberation is an awesome game. AWESOME. One of the best combat shooters on any handheld ever, IMO. IIRC, IGN gave it a 9, Gamespot gave it a 8.5, EGM/1up trashed it unmercifully in a terrible review and gave it a 5.

But hey, reviews are a matter of taste, so people can disagree. That's not the problem with the review that we were talking about.



Here's basically all you need to know about the stealth edit fiasco:

Is it me or did 1up change their review? I swear before it said, "Supposedly, through some miraculous update, there will be an online deathmatch option available. But seeing how well Liberation follows through on its promising premise, I wouldn't count on it."...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126670&highlight=killzone+liberation

But now it says...

But seeing how well Liberation follows through on its promising premise, I wouldn't count on it redeeming the game any.

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3154776

Maybe I just forgot or the guy in the link above only quoted part of the article (Post #32), either way, 1up are still retards. I'm dissapointed though, I wanted to have a laugh at 1up

That's exactly how the review was written.

Not only do I remember it like it was yesterday, I quoted the same thing in a thread a whole week after the 1Up review first appeared, here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4765669&postcount=43

I even asked "I wonder if the reviewer will come back and correct the review when Guerilla keeps it's promise and adds the update? I guess we'll see who has better follow-through--Guerilla, or this reviewer?"

It's pretty obvious that someone at 1Up sneaked in and changed the review, and, by not noting the change, it is also obvious that they hoped no one would ever notice.

Unfortunately for 1UP, NeoGAF > 1Up.

From last page:

I PMed Skip, 1UP reviews editor, about the Killzone review and this is what he had to say (posted with permission):

Originally Posted by skip:
We haven't touched the Killzone Liberation review in many months. If there was any change in the text that caused a discrepency between what was quoted on GAF, it occurred shortly after it originally went up for clarification of Robert's point.

I PMed Skip, reviews editor, about the Killzone review and this is what he had to say (posted with permission):

We haven't touched the Killzone Liberation review in many months. If there was any change in the text that caused a discrepency between what was quoted on GAF, it occurred shortly after it originally went up for clarification of Robert's point.

Well his definition of "shortly after it originally went up" isn't very short at all. If you look at my post above, you can see that the "clarification" was still not made a week after the review went up, at least.

Sounds like a cop-out to me. Journalists should be transparent in practices like these.

feel free to believe whatever makes you the happiest.

Of course there was more back-and-forth about this, including a multi-post appearance from the original author of the review which ended up with him first blaming the readers for reading the words that he originally wrote and somehow misinterpreting them, and then when that didn't work, basically accusing me and others of just hating him, and lamented about some death threats he supposedly received from the review (which I find to be even more unbelievable than his original review or denials.) But I think that all went much too far for our purposes here.

All that can be found in this thread, if you are so inclined:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159775&highlight=Killzone+liberation

[EDIT] 1Up gave Killzone: Liberation a 5. I thought 5.5. (See how easy this is to note a change?)

 

[arias]

Wait What? 1up previewed Killzone 2 .. and then stealth editted the preview to say that GEARS OF WAR looks better?!?!

ghahahahahah
WTF?

Yes. I swear on this. You can find it on the Killzone 2 thread - I'm not the only one who noticed it.

:lol Back up and start over. It's as much "my business" as it your business to challenge me on this. Which is to say, we're both entitled to our opinion.

Long before you got posting privileges for this place, I've been looking forward to this game. You seem to be operating under different assumptions so perhaps you may want to take a minute to familiarize yourself with my posting history related to Lair before you continue.

I never said you are not entitled to your own opinion - and certainly I can have the opinion that your opinion is shite.. I don't care when I got my posting privileges to this place. It's not some sort of honor to be a posting member, and I don't want to waste my time reviewing posting histories.

Point said and done, I want to see other reviews. Too much Sony hate on this board and everywhere else, and this poor Lair review has invited all the bots waiting to pounce and scavenge. I'm going to wait for peer reviews from gamers here, if they or even a significant proportion say it sucks, then it does and I'll not be touching Lair.

x

 

[captive]

wow, -10 respect for skip

 

[Tideas]

wow, -10 respect for skip

It's 1up. What do you expect? They probably had an article ready to publish in case Killzone 2 failed to live up to the hype. Written. 3 days before the conference.

I'm pretty sure if you dig hard enough, you'll find it in their computers