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Official Madden '10 Online Franchise Interest Thread
- Thread starter FrenchMovieTheme
- Start date
sableholic
Member
Striker said:
:lol wtf and it had to be against Andre Carter? Hopefully that doesn't actually happen a lot or at least not at whatever difficulty the league will be on.
Rorschach said:
To be honest I'd think the simpler the system the better. I mean sure a detailed system would be fine for this season, but next season we'd have to guess what the cap will be (if there even will be one in real life), what rookie contracts percentage jump will be, etc. I'm sure its possible to do, but i'm not sure it'll be worth it.
Like I said, no one would want it. That's why I'm thinking it would be best to just say "fuck it!" and not even have one. We will all have 99 teams by 2011!sableholic said:
Or maybe just have a higher points system that takes into account player positions (not just OVR) and gives you the player for a certain length. That way, we'd still have free agency, but you wouldn't have to tear apart your team every year or give up your rookies just because they've progressed.
Oh, man, that right stick's gonna be trouble. :lolStriker said:
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
:lolStriker said:
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
well if we DONT come up with some type of cap/contract system then you're basically hoping you draft well because that is the only place you're going to get good new talent from.
i think ian's example we a good starting point: everyone is required to cut 5 players that are rated 75 or over at the end of the season and then we can have a free agent bidding type off-season where each team has X amount of points to spend on players
i think ian's example we a good starting point: everyone is required to cut 5 players that are rated 75 or over at the end of the season and then we can have a free agent bidding type off-season where each team has X amount of points to spend on players
Some teams, like myself, aren't funded with players very high already. Only way to rebuild it by drafting, I guess... but even that would difficult if down the road he's gotten his rating up high enough he'll be on the chop block. :\
I like the system where each player or position counts as a number, though.
I like the system where each player or position counts as a number, though.
The reason I hate that system is that it punishes you for building up rookies, it punishes you for having a young team, it punishes you for having standout players in smaller rolls (fb, kicker, punter, etc) and it punishes you for having a good team. Also, you have shuffle your team every season. If we're gonna implement a system like that, it can't be based solely on overall rating.FrenchMovieTheme said:
The problem with the points system is that you're requiring extra work of the players and the players are laaaaaaazy. No offense, guys! You'd have to keep tabs on your team's numbers and the commishes would have to keep track of all the teams to see that they're on the up and up. Then, you'd have to assign points to rookies during the draft, to free agents in the off-season, etc etc.Striker said:
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
thats true, especially for a lesser rated team they would be fucked even worse but also keep in mind that there are going to be a lot of decently rated FA's (if everyone is doing it).
not that we should copy their system but i hate the thought of having no system and someone just has an all star team by year 3 or 4
not that we should copy their system but i hate the thought of having no system and someone just has an all star team by year 3 or 4
Well, in the end, I'm down for whatever. Just as long as it doesn't make people threaten to quit every off-season because they don't have the time or whatever.
Well, even if everyone's doing it, a young, low rated team would be fucked because they'd have to give up their starters who are probably the only ones over 75 and get older at those positions if they even get those positions back in FA.FrenchMovieTheme said:
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
yeah i know not everyone has the time. i suppose it wouldn't be that bad to free ball it.... we would still have trades available and free agency will still be there. maybe EA will bail us out by adding FA and SC before september!
I agree. However on the FA piece itself from the beginning, you said yourself you don't want to see any outlandish trades or anything, basically making appear like the 2K league.
The points thing would work wonderfully there.
Now as for the FA session in the off-season, not sure...
The points thing would work wonderfully there.
Now as for the FA session in the off-season, not sure...
sableholic
Member
Rorschach said:
I like all the ideas you mentioned. If we do a points system we need one that a) doesn't make people cut guys off the bat and b) doesn't value all positions equally (kickers punters etc shouldn't be valued the same as a qb).
Why not just make the points system ignore punter, kicker, fullback, etc? I mean in real life the only time teams change those players is if they suck not because their contract has gotten too out of hand.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
I say we let roster updates determine changes to the teams since the Timorons left out FA and contracts. Or, we just pick teams and dump all the players into a giant pool and just do a mega fantasy draft.
Both of these negate the reason to have a franchise. We may as well do online leagues at that point. Oh, and with the former, I'd have to keep paying for Al Davis' mistakes.DenogginizerOS said:
Sableholic: the only thing is that the points system requires a lot of input from each player and you'd have to grade every single player in every roster and every single free agent. May as well have offline contracts at that point. It's the same exact thing.
sableholic
Member
Rorschach said:
not sure i'm following you here, but why not just
a) allow all teams to keep their rookies selected after the first season for the entire franchise or for a certain period of time before they count towards the points system.
b) not count fullbacks, punters, and kickers
c) use points for the other players (this part shouldn't be too bad cause aren't all the ratings available online in the league viewer? I thought it was part of their fancy new websites for the online stats and if so we'll just have to get a way to extract that information and auto create the point list). dunno I guess i'm just under the impression that we'll be able to automate this point list once we have a point ranking system and then the impact on the players in the league is none aside from having to view their list and drop players to get under the list.
let me know if im completely misunderstanding something
Edit: Just checked in the documentary video and yep the online viewer does have the rankings, so we should be able to get to that information automatically even if I (or someone else) have to write a screen scraper to do it. depending on if you have to login to view the league ratings it could be as simple as using yahoo pipes to determine each teams list and aggregate it into one list, but anyways im getting ahead of myself.
I like these ideas, but what if the league outlasts what would normally be a rookie contract (around 4 years)? Also, what if you draft a rookie that starts out in the 80s and is a top 10 pick? Shouldn't he be worth something?sableholic said:
What I'm saying is that, even with the league viewer available, it requires all of the players to be ranked and tagged with the appropriate numbers. There are around 56 players on each Madden roster. 32 teams. That's already around 1,700 players and that's not counting the free agents. By "ranking" them, I mean assigning a value so that you can start bidding on them.
Now, in addition to that, you'd have to also keep track of each player's contract length.
Then, in the off-season, we'd have to do it all over again based on "current" values. The price of a 90 QB, for example, would fluctuate based on the market needs, current contracts. Also, we'd have to see whose contracts expired, who renewed, etc etc.
There's also the matter of the current rosters. How would that work? Would we also have a cap? What should we base the cap on? It's almost the exact same thing as having contracts. What about having to have commissioner approval on top of all of these steps? You have to keep track of the exact same stuff except you're dealing with points instead of dollar figures. The system you're proposing is still very elaborate and that's exactly what you said you didn't want.
This is not to say that I'm not willing to put in the effort. In the system I was going to propose, I was going to do all that legwork myself and then just pass on the results to the team owners. :lol
What I am thinking is that people will be turned off by that. After thinking about it, I don't think we can expect people to be willing to follow a complicated system. Some people don't have the time or the patience. If people were turned off by LD, they'll definitely be turned off by this.
I was talking with DM and he suggested we take the "wait and see" approach. Let some other Madden players rack their brains and we'll steal the best ideas and vote on them.
sableholic
Member
Rorschach said:I like these ideas, but what if the league outlasts what would normally be a rookie contract (around 4 years)? Also, what if you draft a rookie that starts out in the 80s and is a top 10 pick? Shouldn't he be worth something?
What I'm saying is that, even with the league viewer available, it requires all of the players to be ranked and tagged with the appropriate numbers. There are around 56 players on each Madden roster. 32 teams. That's already around 1,700 players and that's not counting the free agents. By "ranking" them, I mean assigning a value so that you can start bidding on them.
Now, in addition to that, you'd have to also keep track of each player's contract length.
Then, in the off-season, we'd have to do it all over again based on "current" values. The price of a 90 QB, for example, would fluctuate based on the market needs, current contracts. Also, we'd have to see whose contracts expired, who renewed, etc etc.
There's also the matter of the current rosters. How would that work? Would we also have a cap? What should we base the cap on? It's almost the exact same thing as having contracts. What about having to have commissioner approval on top of all of these steps? You have to keep track of the exact same stuff except you're dealing with points instead of dollar figures. The system you're proposing is still very elaborate and that's exactly what you said you didn't want.
This is not to say that I'm not willing to put in the effort. In the system I was going to propose, I was going to do all that legwork myself and then just pass on the results to the team owners. :lol
What I am thinking is that people will be turned off by that. After thinking about it, I don't think we can expect people to be willing to follow a complicated system. Some people don't have the time or the patience. If people were turned off by LD, they'll definitely be turned off by this.
I was talking with DM and he suggested we take the "wait and see" approach. Let some other Madden players rack their brains and we'll steal the best ideas and vote on them.
For the rookies I was thinking about saying after 4 years you started counting them, but I figured that was more work and might make things more complex.
By ranking I just meant like 90+ players = x points etc, i wasn't considering bidding on free agents I just figured people can lay claims and then worst record gets that person.
I also wasn't considering contract lengths cause I thought the point plan involved cutting x players above 75 rating each year so we wouldn't need to concern ourselves with contract lengths. Sure it does mean that people will be dropping people who technically should still be under contract, but its simpler that way.
I was thinking the point system would be a one time deal during the offseason and after that its more or less no holds barred using the worst record rule for free agents until the next offseason. Basically I thought the point plan was just like a cap that they have to be under before the start of the next season, but that that portion was separate from the yearly cuts. I probably misunderstood what the point plan was though so i'm probably completely off.
Anyways like you said this is getting complicated and that is what I was hoping we'd avoid so I think DM's right we should just let others figure out how to handle it and steal the good ideas. I'm sure some of us will have played a bit of online franchises before this one starts up as well, so it's probably best to just wait till we have a good idea of how everything works.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i'll put you on the list Caspel, but i've never seen you in any of the other online leagues! how do we know we can trust you to be an active participant in the league?
FrenchMovieTheme said:
I always come in too late to join the leagues. I put my name on the list for NBA 2k9, but never got a shot. Fought in the SF II Turbo HD Remix tournament. But for the most part, never venture into the online/matchup forum that often since everything is usually under way and I'm too late to join.
If you'd like to know if I am trustworthy, you could take a look at other online leagues that I've ran at other forums that were officially sponsored by publishers themselves (THQ / Capcom two examples).
I don't want to run any other tournament/leagues myself for awhile since they are so time consuming, so I thought I'd throw my name in the hat for one at GAF, rather than contact EA and work out details to run my own at another site with prizes.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
I agree. I spent some time tinkering with excel spreadsheets and using player ratings as a starting point to establish some sort of value system. Unfortunately, without factoring performance into value (which would require someone combing through the stats on a weekly basis and assigning or removing value from players) we will not be able to achieve any kind of real value system.Sableholic said:
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
As we discussed, this should not matter during the season, no need to comb the stats on a weekly basis. No one gets a new contract mid-season based on how well they are doing that season... not one that takes effect mid-season at least.DenogginizerOS said:
I would not agree with FMTs system, I would only ever cut players hovering around 75 OVR, and never get rid of top tier guys. What incentive do I have to cut my 90+ players if I just need to get rid of five bodies. Whatever system can get us to want to cut high rated players is the one that will work - and as mentioned above, the closest one to that would be one in which there's a value given to players that are 85-90 OVR, 90-95 OVR etc.
However... If we were to do that we may have to take positions into account as well. Eli Manning is likely about to sign the richest contract ever in the history of the NFL this off-season... and he's in the mid-80s in the game.
I think this has been brought up already, but a 90 at FB isn't as valuable as a 90 at HB. Solving for that - whether it's a coefficient applied to the rating and then a "position score" and a "salary score" to give each player a single number - the Free Agent Score. Then, each team could just have to give up a certain amount of points in Free Agent Score in the offseason. Already that sounds sort of complicated and is probably still imperfect, however.
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
To be a top ten QB, yes, but that's exactly my point.Rorschach said:
To that end, Eli is signing an extension, Webster just got one, Tuck just got one... Do we at all take into account contract lengths for players on our teams or ignore?
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Haven't really been following this closely, but damn this is sounding complicated. I need to hire a GM to run my team.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
guys it's going to be a compromise in the end. i know how hard it is going to be to get through a full season with 32 people even without this stuff, so we're going to be looking for the most effective solution overall. don't be intimidated by all this stuff right now because it maybe a moot point when all is said and done!
Couldn't we just assign a set point value to all players ranked 95-100, 90-94, etc and then put a max point cap on teams. You are not allowed to go over the cap at all. At the end of the season you have to cut 1 90 player, 2 80-89 players, 2 70-79, etc to balance it out. A player going from 80s to 90s does not count towarda a 90 rates cut so you get at least 1 year out of them.
Just an idea... Obviously this will hurt big rated teams in year 2 more than others. Just ideas to build off of....
Edit: maybe have a franchise tag limit to one per year where you can flag one player to not cut but you can't flag that player for more than two seasons.
Just an idea... Obviously this will hurt big rated teams in year 2 more than others. Just ideas to build off of....
Edit: maybe have a franchise tag limit to one per year where you can flag one player to not cut but you can't flag that player for more than two seasons.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
you wont be drafting much after you are forced to fork over some picks to the broncos owner
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i would give almost anything to end Jpouts career during our meeting in season 1
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Lonestar said:
I think the Lions still own the rights to Barry Sanders, right?
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Mrbob said:
I have to agree with MrCutler, I don't really give a crap. If Wellington gets a real QB on the Giants and becomes the new Patriots, so what. This crap is about fun and not entering stats into LeagueDaddy. Hell, my experience in NCAA was almost therapeutic. I had a SHITTY UCLA team and slowly worked them into contenders. That was awesome.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
guys even if we have a cap or some type of system you aren't going to be "entering" any stats anywhere
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
Lets not forget that the league can't get in the way of his 'stories'.CB3 said:
MWS Natural
Member
FrenchMovieTheme said:you wont be drafting much after you are forced to fork over some picks to the broncos owner
Yes please