I've been a 3-4 defense all this season, seemed to get me way more sacks than last season
He should be banned!
He should be banned!
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Official Madden '16 PS4 Online league thread #2: Blink Daggers and Backflips
- Thread starter CB3
- Start date
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
DL play should be banned. Or at least exclusively playing it. 17 more sacks than anyone else is insane.
Purple Cheeto
Member
If you want to talk discrepancies, 5 of the top 10 individuals in interceptions are middle line backers. Only 5 line backers cracked the top 40 in real life and none of them had more than more picks. 10 of the top 25 players in picks are line backers.
I don't know if this is a function of line backers having too good of hands, people user controlling line backers, the amount of drag/mesh routes thrown vs real life or what, but it feels like the kind of thing that someone at EA with access to more metrics should adjust to provide a more accurate experience.
He only had 7 more team sacks than anyone else, and only 4 more sacks than the next individual.
I don't know if this is a function of line backers having too good of hands, people user controlling line backers, the amount of drag/mesh routes thrown vs real life or what, but it feels like the kind of thing that someone at EA with access to more metrics should adjust to provide a more accurate experience.
He only had 7 more team sacks than anyone else, and only 4 more sacks than the next individual.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
DL play should be not allowed when usering someone with insane stats. If you want to play DL then use one of the lesser players on the line who doesn't instantly get passed the O-Line in .2 seconds.
but that's just my opinion
It's everyone usering MLB and people throwing directly to them. All the interceptions with Kevin Hicks were user picks.
but that's just my opinion
It's everyone usering MLB and people throwing directly to them. All the interceptions with Kevin Hicks were user picks.
Purple Cheeto
Member
If we are banning user DL play then I think we should ban user MLB play as it is clearly just as broken/unbalanced.
Everyone should have to play corner.
My point exactly. I don't see how this is any more broken/balanced/fair than Splat playing Carlos Dunlap.
Everyone should have to play corner.
My point exactly. I don't see how this is any more broken/balanced/fair than Splat playing Carlos Dunlap.
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
I play corner a few plays a game as is, sounds good to me!
And Lol what? It's not the same at all. People attack the middle f the field more than RL. MLBs gonna make more plays as a result. Nothing like user DL play. (Which I don't really care about, I just think it's a lame way to play the game. Like how is doing the same thing user-wise every single play fun?)
And Lol what? It's not the same at all. People attack the middle f the field more than RL. MLBs gonna make more plays as a result. Nothing like user DL play. (Which I don't really care about, I just think it's a lame way to play the game. Like how is doing the same thing user-wise every single play fun?)
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Because one is moving around the field reading routes, making plays, double covering someones #1 receiver
and the other is pressing R2 + Analog stick up + Square/Circle to win
I don't know how you could equate the two. People throwing into user coverage is the fault of the person throwing to user coverage, people getting sacked because the user d-line obliterates the block half a second off the snap is not the fault of the person playing QB.
Madden is never going to be like the NFL, the argument against d-line isn't because the numbers aren't NFL like, it's because playing against d-line play is extremely challenging if someone is usering a superstar and blowing up the o-line automatically.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Playing against LJ twice a season or CB where they basically take away 1 to 2 receivers per play isn't any more fun than playing against Splat. Plus the fact that outside routes and receivers have always been less effective than inside/middle routes, means that user MLB play is just as abusive as user DL play.
You can't ban DL play and not ban MLB play.
In other news a startup in Boston is trying to put Bowser out of a job:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/28/11317518/kuvee-bottle-keep-wine-fresh-smart-wi-fi
You can't ban DL play and not ban MLB play.
In other news a startup in Boston is trying to put Bowser out of a job:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/28/11317518/kuvee-bottle-keep-wine-fresh-smart-wi-fi
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
Blue you are insane. MLB requires skill. You still have to read the play beyond is it a run or is it a pass and if u fuck up u have a wide open receiver, what happens if DL fucks up? DL play is the same thing over and over.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Yea for real, my first season playing MLB this year was fucking hell, shit I still suck most of the time and leave my zone open too much.
My only qualm about user MLB is the person gets to see the field behind them and man up on someone they technically can't see IRL. You can see FMT and CB do this constantly with covering multiple routes because they stay in front of the players instead of being above them.
Purple Cheeto
Member
But both are inherently broken. Just because the skill cap on user Linebacker play is a little higher doesn't mean it isn't broken, it just means some people get a slightly different advantage from playing it than other people. The playing field still isn't level, which I *thought* was the goal but it doesn't seem to be.
I also think user safety has the same inherent problem as user line backer, especially in terms of stopping the run. It pisses me off to no end when people user their safety into the box at the last second because they read run. How is that fair or balanced?
I demand everyone play corner and can't move pre-snap.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
This. There is not a single downside to playing dline. You can jump every snap on a hard count and maybe get a neutral zone infraction once a game. But most likely not. There is a much higher chance of taking yourself out of the play by playing a linebacker.
You guys that play dline should just man up and say that you do it because you're scared of being a detriment to your defense. Instead of coming up with a laundry list of reasons why you're not a bitch.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I mean, the inherent downside of playing d-line is you open yourself up to be ripped apart if your pass D isn't top tier. Purple has one of the best cover MLB's in the game so people throwing down the middle still get hurt on him, but for anyone else if they don't have a great LB cover throwing on them is fun times if you can get the ball off quick enough.
Thats not even close to being right. To take the chances I take, someone on the opposing team will be open. Its just me reading the play, faking you out to think im doing something different, then jumping the route you want to throw to. All of that is calculated, especially the part where i think my pass rush will get to you before my plan all falls apart.
Im not infallible at all on user D. My mistakes leave guys open all the time. Its the big difference between D-Line play and anything else, really.
D-line play isnt as broken this year as it has been the past 5 years or so. Though im sure splat is pulling some sort of fuckery to get those numbers. Luckily, he throws 10 picks a game so it doesnt really matter.
Purple Cheeto
Member
For the record I almost exclusively played line backer this season. The biggest difference was that my rush defense got worse because of my shitty tackling.
The only way for us to have equality is for everyone to play corner with no ability to move pre-snap.
The only way for us to have equality is for everyone to play corner with no ability to move pre-snap.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
What? Patriots used Chung as a SS / proto LB and threw him in the box every other play in the 2014-2015 season. What's wrong with someone reading the play and setting up for it? If you see someone doing that why don't you audible out of the run and punish them with a deep pass?
Play action pass to the open spot for a massive gain? I don't understand the issue.
The issue is his 36 int's this season with a 99 overall QB.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
LB and S control are much riskier. You can easily manipulate a human player to bite on a route they think you want to open another. PA can also destroy human controlled players.
What is the risk in DL play? Nothing. If you get them to jump, no flag. There isn't a risk of blowing a coverage either.
What is the risk in DL play? Nothing. If you get them to jump, no flag. There isn't a risk of blowing a coverage either.
Just so we're clear:
Dunlap set a new sack record by 0.5 sacks. As a team, we had less sacks than the best real life nfl team this past season.
We've had records broken in this franchise by WAY MORE and no one has batted an eye. Receptions in a game, Ints/season, rcv yards/season, passing yards/season, all shattered.
I spent 4 years investing heavily into my dline, and I managed to have less sacks than a real life team, and I barely set a sack record that's come close to falling a number of times the past few years. The investment isn't without cost, my DBs are generally terrible (80OVR is the best I have), and I cover up for it with (sometimes) great pass rush. But hey, I have 2 linemen with 99 FMV!
Having to throw shorter routes vs me, is no different than me having to remember to not throw screens vs Soka (blue forgot this) or test his user coverage of Eifert.
We had a LB put up 17 ints. As a user you can cover and recover way faster than reasonable in the nfl. Your player can be faced away from the QB/Ball and since you're the one playing and seeing, you can react and change course.Yes, it's harder to play coverage, but the benefit from it is MUCH larger than playing DL.
If I wasn't awful at it, I'd play it more than I do (which is probably 10% of snaps, not never). If I had time to play outside of league games, maybe I'd practice and learn to make the switch. There's a reason FMT has so many bowl wins and it starts with his user LB play.
There's games where I get ZERO rush with Dunlap all game long. Nothing but red circle move failures. As a user LB you don't have to deal with the game just deciding you don't get to do anything this game.
But to say there's no skill involved is a little misleading. If I time the jump early I can eat an encroachment (it happens more than you guys say, I swear). If I time it late, I'm guaranteed no pass rush. If I try and guess pass to improve the rush, I can eat a 10 yard+ gain. I still have to watch out for and read screens. I still have to call plays on defense too. There's at least a little skill involved there!
Dunlap set a new sack record by 0.5 sacks. As a team, we had less sacks than the best real life nfl team this past season.
We've had records broken in this franchise by WAY MORE and no one has batted an eye. Receptions in a game, Ints/season, rcv yards/season, passing yards/season, all shattered.
I spent 4 years investing heavily into my dline, and I managed to have less sacks than a real life team, and I barely set a sack record that's come close to falling a number of times the past few years. The investment isn't without cost, my DBs are generally terrible (80OVR is the best I have), and I cover up for it with (sometimes) great pass rush. But hey, I have 2 linemen with 99 FMV!
Having to throw shorter routes vs me, is no different than me having to remember to not throw screens vs Soka (blue forgot this) or test his user coverage of Eifert.
We had a LB put up 17 ints. As a user you can cover and recover way faster than reasonable in the nfl. Your player can be faced away from the QB/Ball and since you're the one playing and seeing, you can react and change course.Yes, it's harder to play coverage, but the benefit from it is MUCH larger than playing DL.
If I wasn't awful at it, I'd play it more than I do (which is probably 10% of snaps, not never). If I had time to play outside of league games, maybe I'd practice and learn to make the switch. There's a reason FMT has so many bowl wins and it starts with his user LB play.
There's games where I get ZERO rush with Dunlap all game long. Nothing but red circle move failures. As a user LB you don't have to deal with the game just deciding you don't get to do anything this game.
But to say there's no skill involved is a little misleading. If I time the jump early I can eat an encroachment (it happens more than you guys say, I swear). If I time it late, I'm guaranteed no pass rush. If I try and guess pass to improve the rush, I can eat a 10 yard+ gain. I still have to watch out for and read screens. I still have to call plays on defense too. There's at least a little skill involved there!
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
It doesn't take "no skill", it's just the bare minimum of risk. It'd be like playing RG instead of QB on offense.
Ps
Bullshit does jumping late cause no pass rush. I got somnia on one, he jumps late and STILL stumbles easily into the backfield for a 4 yard loss
lol league of legends player.
Purple Cheeto
Member
He's not 99 OVR!
My issue is you guys always chase after DL play when LBer play is far more unbalanced and game breaking. But because its not "bitch made" it isn't seen as problematic.
Or the dude user recovers better than the AI would and makes the pick which happens more often than not.
Let's not ignore that calling screen passes against any half decent user line backer is worthless because the AI won't block properly.
Yes user line backer has a higher skill floor, but it also is way more game breaking than user DL. If we are going to keep going crazy about banning things we might as well look beyond one thing, and do so in a more intelligent manner than "its bitch made" because that just distracts from the core issue.
I know we aren't going to ban either, and like I said I even stopped playing DL this past season, I just feel like people single out one aspect of the game and ignore other areas that are just as, if not more, unbalanced. If the argument is more about "bitch made" than balance then I don't even see why we bother with it.
Oh right, I forget that everything devolves into personal attacks. So yeah I'm done with this topic.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
I play D-Line a lot too and I'm still 0-16. Playing Dline shouldn't be outlawed.
Why were you playing D-line? do you play league too?
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
You act like every lb in the game can cover the whole field. Doesn't work that way and there are a ton of plays where I can't get there and allow big plays. That is the difference: if I screw up coverage, odds are I'm getting fucked bad on that play because of it. If I play DL and don't get a hit on the QB..... Ok? Not a big deal
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
What?
How did you jump late if you weren't playing DL? Oh, you meant he as in somnia, not your player. How do you know it was late? You don't see the "Late" popup from the offense side of things.
D-Line play (at the highest level) is about exploiting AI blocking which varies in its ineptitude year to year. This year is probably one of the more tame years. We all remember the 50 sack seasons of the past.
Linebacker/DB play (at the highest level) is about exploiting the opposing player. I may make it look real easy but trust me when I say its very difficult. Its a combination of knowledge on how each games defense works every year, the playbook a person is using, the person themselves, the personnel on the team, calculated risks, and 10 years of working hard in this league to do it the best that I can. Im not saying that playing a great DE or DT is easy, but there is a big difference in what you are going up against on any given play and the risks involved.
When I play user MLB vs wellington, thats 10 years of knowledge and work in going up against him. Thats very different than wiggling R3 at his Right Tackle for 10 years.
Splat is my boy. Its more of an inside joke rather than a personal attack. Feel free to ignore my comments that arent meant for you.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
I can easily tell by how a human DL player moves off the line if he fucked up or not. But the reality is you can't really fuck up!
This whole argument is stupid. Some of us prefer dline play. You can say I'm a bitch or have no skill, don't give a shit.
If we're going to start banning dline I sure as shit hope we start banning more stuff and also players who have no fucking respect for other league members or even try to set up times to play.
There's been things to happen in this Madden that is fucking insane stat wise compared to anyone's dline play.
Who gives a fuck if someone wants to play dline.
If we're going to start banning dline I sure as shit hope we start banning more stuff and also players who have no fucking respect for other league members or even try to set up times to play.
There's been things to happen in this Madden that is fucking insane stat wise compared to anyone's dline play.
Who gives a fuck if someone wants to play dline.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
DL play isn't getting banned
No you can't! There's no normal difference in the get-off animation between perfect/late, only on the interaction once the ol/dl actually connect.
Brent and I have been asking for this for a long, long time friend :/
CB mentioned that he's been pushing to make it a requirement to visit this thread or something, but not sure why that's even something up for debate. Why someone has to post in a whole other thread to try a get a game going in THIS league is asinine.
Change is slow, unfortunately. There are plenty of things id love to try and improve but basketball reasons usually get in the way. Though I get the feeling that next years game is when ill be able to start actually get some of these things done.
I mean, I can definitely understand rule changes or something else taking some convincing but ease of scheduling games is fundamentally important to this league. It makes things easier for all parties involved. I just don't see why there would be pushback on that from anyone at all.
Don't get me wrong, I understand I'm not the easiest person to schedule an actual time with. I rarely am able to just say, "yes, that definitely works" unless someone happens to be available mid day - but I respond and generally am able to find a workable time with everyone because I try to get it done.
But my response has also never changed. If you can get me before 9pm eastern, I can almost always set that up within the 72 hours. After that time, the best I can do is play it by ear.
I've probably typed that general response like 100 times over the 3 years I've been in the league...in the thread or in a PM.
It's going to get a whole lot more complicated next year with a kid being born right around Madden time.
But my response has also never changed. If you can get me before 9pm eastern, I can almost always set that up within the 72 hours. After that time, the best I can do is play it by ear.
I've probably typed that general response like 100 times over the 3 years I've been in the league...in the thread or in a PM.
It's going to get a whole lot more complicated next year with a kid being born right around Madden time.
This simply isn't the case, or you are passing really terribly. The recovery for back 7 defenders isn't nearly as good as it used to be in previous years.
This is nonsense. The amount of times you "jump" to penalties called ratio is 10%, maybe. There have also been plenty of times where jumping incidentally ends up being beneficial in that your defender has speed/momentum built up from the adjustment or the offensive line AI just breaks because you're a standing defender and there is an easy gap for you to cut through. Regardless, the risk is still absurdly lower to the point that it doesn't even warrant comparison to the risk that comes with playing LB or DB.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
We get to the point in the league cycle where we have no backups left. So we either kick someone out and let the cup play or we don't. I'd rather have a dm who plays 3/4ths of his games vs a cup team. But it is annoying that people schedule then don't show up so I'm not sure if he will be in the league in madden 17
CrimsonCommie
Member
Madden is trash. Everybody should play Dota or the show instead.
I said you could when you play friends in DD!
I said you could when you play friends in DD!