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[Beer Monkey]

In the spirit of Thomas Jefferson (and to mangle a Spock quote), I wish to say "To hell with the rest of the developed world."

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."

These and dozens of other Thomas Jefferson quotes make it clear that today's 'NeoCons' would make him throw up.

 

[bjork]

So it's basically done now, right? All the rest of what'll happen is a formality?

It doesn't make much difference to me who is in power or whatever, but everyone's been dying for some power shift to the left, and now it's here. Hopefully something better comes from it than what we've been getting.

Demo president is pretty much a shoo-in if they get the right speaker (ie not kerry), right?

 

[castle007]

149,249 50% tester

141,733 Burns

 

[Shard]

I just want to say that I hate this Mizzou nickname for Missouri.

 

[Dan]

A bunch of nothing.

What a worthwhile contribution.

 

[JayDubya]

I fail to see how a welfare state and a police state are the "same crap".

Yeah, I agree with you here, even if I agree with his general sentiment. They're both different, both are bad, and both leave lasting effects.

It's like we get a Republican, we get more authoritarian crap, we get a Democrat we get more socialistic crap, and both parties give lip service to the idea of getting rid of the crap but they never actually do because they'd lose either popularity or power, so we just keep pushing more and more socialistic and more and more authoritarian until we're in what can only be defined as pure hell for a libertarian / fiscal conservative.

 

[StoOgE]

Yeah, Tester is going to win Montana.

On MSNBC they are all but calling it. The last republican strongholds numbers are coming in.. and they are coming in Democrat. They just said the democrats are saying they are extremely confident they have won Montana.

ITS DONE. WE WIN, CELEBRATION TIME.

 

[Triumph]

As much as I think the Dems would have really cemented things with another nominee in TN, I just watched Ford's concession speech and I have to say that guy is super classy and I think he's got a good career ahead of him.

 

[Open Source]

He's nothing like a Democrat. Your post is so off base it isn't even funny. At least threeball was a joke character.

He's very much like a Southern Democrat. Prove me wrong.

 

[PantherLotus]

Yeah, this is what I don't understand: Bush is a liberal (aka "compassionate conservative"). He pays lip service to the Republican base on social issues (gay marriage, abortion, fetal stem cell research) but for all practical purposes could pass as a traditional Democrat--high spending, big government, presciption drug plan, police the world policies. And the Democrats HATE him, much more so than they did real conservatives like Reagan. That's what you get for trying to work with the people who want your job.

It's the religious right's control over the Republicans that will ultimately be their undoing.

And you got the Democrats pegged wrong, unless you're just repeating things you've heard, which you can't be blamed for.

Democrat "traditional issues/strengths"
1. Equal Rights - Minorities and Women (and now, Gay people)
2. Education
3. The Lower Class (workers, union members, and the Ghetto)
4. Environmental Improvements (Protection)
5. Strong and trustful standing among our international peers
6. Policing Corporations (antitrust, higher minimum wage, worker's rights, etc)
7. Health Care (this is a shit hole of an issue, and will remain so until pharmaceuticals and insurance companies control this)

"Big government" and "tax & spend" is just another example of Republicans effectively changing the language to suit their purposes. Democrats biggest misstep in the past 20 years was losing the poor whites in the south. As long as the Republicans can keep playing on the racial issues down there (see the Tennessee race), it will be a deadlocked 50/50 country. When the masses (of normal poor people) realize that when Republicans say "low taxes" they mean "for corporations."

Also, "small businesses" aren't exactly run by poor people. Spread the word. Only upper-middle class individuals have enough money actually have a business. And we're not talking about that one girl you know who makes cakes for money while looking after her kids. It's not the same thing.

/ramble

 

[monchi-kun]

http://www.elaph.com/ElaphWeb/Politics/2006/11/189242.htm

i see a bunch of squigly lines, translate please

 

[Cooter]

I don't see any Democrat winning the White House in 08 when they are going against a moderate Rebulican. Give the Dem's two years of controlling both houses and the public will absloutely not want the Dem's to control all three branchs. Mark my words.

 

[thefit]

Yes! Republican districts in Montana are reporting in and they are leaning democratic

 

[castle007]

i see a bunch of squigly lines, translate please

it is in arabic, it just basically says that the Democrats won the House.

if you are using windows, right click and just choose the arabic windows language. But I doubt that it will help :lol

 

[Diablos]

Webb, in Montana, eh?

Spoiler

It's ok, I've made a lot of typos too

 

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah, this is what I don't understand: Bush is a liberal (aka "compassionate conservative"). He pays lip service to the Republican base on social issues (gay marriage, abortion, fetal stem cell research) but for all practical purposes could pass as a traditional Democrat--high spending, big government, presciption drug plan, police the world policies. And the Democrats HATE him, much more so than they did real conservatives like Reagan. That's what you get for trying to work with the people who want your job.

Worst Post ever

 

[StoOgE]

Yes! Republican districts in Montana are reporting in and they are leaning towards Webb!

Tester. Webbs in Virginia

 

[Macam]

Quasi-authoritarian is bad. Higher taxes going to stupid social programs and general wealth redistribution is bad, too. This is Douchebag vs. Turd Sandwich in a nutshell.

Bush's stuff is a naked power grab, bad on paper, but doesn't directly affect Joe Blow on the street. Taxes are more real, more tangible, and they hurt everybody. The Patriot Act sucks and I want it gone, but it doesn't directly impact my pocketbook, know what I'm saying? Both are terrible, but I know what I hate a smidge more.

Not to derail things from the current elections, but...

I'm no fan of taxes, but I hardly understand this borderline obsession some people have with it (especially in Texas), certainly at least given the current circumstances. That and I do have to take contention with your assessment that Bush's power grab doesn't directly affect Joe Blow; when you eliminate something like habeus corpus as the Military Commissions Act did, that certainly does affect every single American. That's not to say you'll get thrown into Guatanamo tomorrow morning, but it, at the very least, raises the possibility.

Regardless, I hope the Democrats do restore sense into the Congress (House and/or Senate) -- and I'm far from fearful of providing the Democrats with absolute power in '08. With elections coming up at least every two years, there's plenty of opportunity to vote in sensible, moderate Republicans to counter any move in that direction. First, however, we'd need to find some sensible, moderate Republicans (and, second, Democrats would have to start really screwing things up).

 

[thefit]

Webb, in Montana, eh?

Spoiler

It's ok, I've made a lot of typos too

We need sleep

 

[ferrarimanf355]

Yes! Republican districts in Montana are reporting in and they are leaning democratic

Great to hear, although CNN says it's still a 7,000 vote lead.

 

[thefit]

Yes, yes we are all sleep depribed my kids about to wake up to feed and I gotta work tomorrow!

 

[Shard]

Worst Post ever

Threeball was much more entertaining.

 

[Open Source]

Yeah, I agree with you here, even if I agree with his general sentiment. They're both different, both are bad, and both leave lasting effects.

It's like we get a Republican, we get more authoritarian crap, we get a Democrat we get more socialistic crap, and both parties give lip service to the idea of getting rid of the crap but they never actually do because they'd lose either popularity or power, so we just keep pushing more and more socialistic and more and more authoritarian until we're in what can only be defined as pure hell for a libertarian / fiscal conservative.

If Gore had been in office, we still would have had a Patriot Act-like series of laws passed. And it would have been Republicans complaining that government was being too intrusive. I remember the same stuff coming up in the 90's with Clinton and the ATF.

That's right, I don't buy that Bush or Republicans should get any credit for being "strong on terror" because the other guys would have done the same stuff if they were in charge.

So I think that while the "police state" and "nanny state" terms both exaggerate the extent of the damage, Democrats and Republicans of the last few years are in favor of both once they get power. You'll see.

 

[Yamauchi]

Has this been up on Drudge for a while?

VA SEN [99.67% IN]
R- ALLEN 1,161,739 49.24%
D- WEBB 1,169,373 49.56%

 

[penguini]

It's the religious right's control over the Republicans that will ultimately be their undoing.

And you got the Democrats pegged wrong, unless you're just repeating things you've heard, which you can't be blamed for.

Democrat "traditional issues/strengths"
1. Equal Rights - Minorities and Women (and now, Gay people)
2. Education
3. The Lower Class (workers, union members, and the Ghetto)
4. Environmental Improvements (Protection)
5. Strong and trustful standing among our international peers
6. Policing Corporations (antitrust, higher minimum wage, worker's rights, etc)
7. Health Care (this is a shit hole of an issue, and will remain so until pharmaceuticals and insurance companies control this)

"Big government" and "tax & spend" is just another example of Republicans effectively changing the language to suit their purposes. Democrats biggest misstep in the past 20 years was losing the poor whites in the south. As long as the Republicans can keep playing on the racial issues down there (see the Tennessee race), it will be a deadlocked 50/50 country. When the masses (of normal poor people) realize that when Republicans say "low taxes" they mean "for corporations."

Also, "small businesses" aren't exactly run by poor people. Spread the word. Only upper-middle class individuals have enough money actually have a business. And we're not talking about that one girl you know who makes cakes for money while looking after her kids. It's not the same thing.

/ramble

Ummmmm... how old are you? 15? If you had a taste of the real world (or allowed yourself to live in it) you would realize how full of shit you are. And you have no idea about small businesses and who run them... don't act like you do.

 

[JayDubya]

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology."

Heeeeeey guess what. I'm an athiest, and Jefferson believed in freedom of religion and separation of church and state, and I vehemently agree. In general, the legacy of the founders is a spirit of religious tolerance, not one of utter disdain for those that practice or don't practice a given religion.

But really, do you have a point?

I mean, I disagree with his statement on corporations, it flies in the face of much of what classical liberals believe regarding private property. It isn't like I agree with everything Ayn Rand ever said either, but I do think she makes a lot of good points.

The state does not have omnipotent power over you or your property - that was the whole spirit, the whole point of the revolution, and we're pissing it all away to move towards European ideologies where the state has more and more and more power. Pisses me off to no end.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Great to hear, although CNN says it's still a 7,000 vote lead.

7200

every vote counts!

I was losing it because for every % of precints counted, tester was losing ground. things have stablized now, it looks.

 

[PantherLotus]

It's all about language. Whoever owns the language (is it "Equal Rights" or "Marriage Protection?" Is it the "Estate Tax" or the "Death Tax?" Etc), owns the country.


When the Democrats take control of the language, they will finally get their message through. Until that moment, they have to wait until the Republicans screw up, every time.

 

[Open Source]

It's the religious right's control over the Republicans that will ultimately be their undoing.

And you got the Democrats pegged wrong, unless you're just repeating things you've heard, which you can't be blamed for.

Democrat "traditional issues/strengths"
1. Equal Rights - Minorities and Women (and now, Gay people)
2. Education
3. The Lower Class (workers, union members, and the Ghetto)
4. Environmental Improvements (Protection)
5. Strong and trustful standing among our international peers
6. Policing Corporations (antitrust, higher minimum wage, worker's rights, etc)
7. Health Care (this is a shit hole of an issue, and will remain so until pharmaceuticals and insurance companies control this)

"Big government" and "tax & spend" is just another example of Republicans effectively changing the language to suit their purposes. Democrats biggest misstep in the past 20 years was losing the poor whites in the south. As long as the Republicans can keep playing on the racial issues down there (see the Tennessee race), it will be a deadlocked 50/50 country. When the masses (of normal poor people) realize that when Republicans say "low taxes" they mean "for corporations."

Also, "small businesses" aren't exactly run by poor people. Spread the word. Only upper-middle class individuals have enough money actually have a business. And we're not talking about that one girl you know who makes cakes for money while looking after her kids. It's not the same thing.

/ramble

Do you know what a Southern Democrat is? Socially conservative, fiscally liberal. Fits Bush to a T. Thanks for your analysis, though.

 

[PantherLotus]

Ummmmm... how old are you? 15? If you had a taste of the real world (or allowed yourself to live in it) you would realize how full of shit you are. And you have no idea about small businesses and who run them... don't act like you do.

Oh? What kind of small businesses are you thinking of?

 

[VALIS]

I don't see any Democrat winning the White House in 08 when they are going against a moderate Rebulican. Give the Dem's two years of controlling both houses and the public will absloutely not want the Dem's to control all three branchs. Mark my words.

Yep, you're right. McCain or Guiliani would likely smoke Clinton or even Obama unless the Dems have a freaking magical two years between now and then.

But as long as they keep Congress, that's not so bad. Even though I'm not fans of theirs, McCain or Guiliani as prez with a Dem Congress is a US government even more left-leaning than the Clinton years!

 

[MIMIC]

Damn, the Virgina difference is only 8k now?

 

[Chichikov]

Demo president is pretty much a shoo-in if they get the right speaker (ie not kerry), right?

Hardly.
A lot can happen in 2 years.
And don’t forget, in 94 the GOP won 8 Senate seats and 54 house seats from the Democrats.
Clinton still won easily in 96.

 

[ferrarimanf355]

Damn, the Virgina difference is only 8k now?

Oh shit.

 

[Cooter]

Hardly.
A lot can happen in 2 years.
And don’t forget, in 94 the GOP won 8 Senate seats and 54 house seats from the Democrats.
Clinton still won easily in 96.

Truth. 54 and 8.

Always put things in a historical perspective.

 

[Diablos]

bjork: Not really. Which is why part of me is saying it might not be so bad if Dems don't get the Senate.

I'd rather see them get the White House in a couple years... we'll see.

 

[PantherLotus]

Do you know what a Southern Democrat is? Socially conservative, fiscally liberal. Fits Bush to a T. Thanks for your analysis, though.

Yeah, after the Religious Right took over your party, they started taking away those Southern Democrats away. They're called "NASCAR DADS" now.

 

[castle007]

GAF I am going to sleep

wake me up when they announce the Senate winner

 

[Dan]

If Gore had been in office, we still would have had a Patriot Act-like series of laws passed. And it would have been Republicans complaining that government was being too intrusive. I remember the same stuff coming up in the 90's with Clinton and the ATF.

That's right, I don't buy that Bush or Republicans should get any credit for being "strong on terror" because the other guys would have done the same stuff if they were in charge.

So I think that while the "police state" and "nanny state" terms both exaggerate the extent of the damage, Democrats and Republicans of the last years are in favor of both once they get power. You'll see.

These sorts of posts reek of projection.

 

[bjork]

Hardly.
A lot can happen in 2 years.
And don’t forget, in 94 the GOP won 8 Senate seats and 54 house seats from the Democrats.
Clinton still won easily in 96.

but clinton was cool. bush? I dunno... whoever tries to replace him is like the rebound boyfriend after a bad breakup... doomed the moment he walks in the door

 

[JayDubya]

Do you know what a Southern Democrat is? Socially conservative, fiscally liberal. Fits Bush to a T. Thanks for your analysis, though.

Up until the medicare increase I might have argued with you, but yeah...

 

[Open Source]

Yeah, after the Religious Right took over your party, they started taking away those Southern Democrats away. They're called "NASCAR DADS" now.

Sorry, but the Religious Right isn't really very active in the Libertarian party. They tend to disagree with the legalization of drugs and prostitution.

But thanks for your analysis.

 

[ferrarimanf355]

The stem cell research bill in MO passed. Tony Perkins is going to be pissed.

 

[Hitokage]

Do you know what a Southern Democrat is? Socially conservative, fiscally liberal. Fits Bush to a T. Thanks for your analysis, though.

"Fiscally liberal"? Look, you may take pride in not supporting either Republicans or Democrats, but confusing an ostensibly pro-business, pro-unearned income agenda with a populist or socialist agenda is idiocy. Please stop.

 

[Incognito]

The stem cell research bill in MO passed. Tony Perkins is going to be pissed.

**** that cracker! :lol

 

[Dreamfixx]

Good night guys. Its 3:00am here in Va, and I have a test tomorrow:lol


Here's hoping for Webb...

 

[Yamauchi]

Democratic Tester
150,058 50%

Republican Burns
(Incumbent)
143,033 48%

Libertarian Jones
7,515 2%
74% precincts reporting - Updated: 2:58 a.m. ET

 

[Karakand]

i see a bunch of squigly lines, translate please

I don't have the time to translate the whole article but this is the headline:

"White House: Democrats win in the lower house (House of Representatives)."

Spoiler

I'm not a terrorist.

 

[penguini]

Oh? What kind of small businesses are you thinking of?

Let's just say my line of business puts me into dozens of small businesses a week... a great percentage of the owners are from low to middle income backgrounds. In fact, I can't think of one of my customers that is from a middle-upper class background.

So are you done talking out of your ass? Great, thanks!

 

[Diablos]

but clinton was cool. bush? I dunno... whoever tries to replace him is like the rebound boyfriend after a bad breakup... doomed the moment he walks in the door

Not if they shift to a moderate voice. A TRUE moderate voice.

If Dems get the Senate too, it will be a serious wakeup call to the Republicans over the next two years, I think. And gone will be the potential far-right loons for President. Which can only be good for the country. But I still want to see Dems take the White House.