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[Hoddi]

That would be the best case scenario, and I hope is the case as that would free precious GDDR6 used by the system to now be available for games
But im wondering that 2GB DDR5 couldn't possibly be the SSD cache? I know for example the 990 Pro 2TB drive uses 2GB DDR4 SDRAM as cache

Yeah it matches 2GB for 2TB capacity ratio SSD companies use
Cant help but think Cerny would have brought it up if it was system ram added to free GDDR6 allocation to games

PS4 Pro didn't use the extra memory as a disk cache but for the 4k frontend. It's likely the same case here as well because there's even less point in having a disk cache with an SSD.

 

[Fess]

Neither concerned nor do care. It's just amazing how Sony can get away with stuff and fanboys are just sheep following. at least Zen3 for a system that is being released 4 years since your last Zen 2 console.

I really hope it flop sales and marketing-wise. I'm not too fond of this trend.

It’s even more annoying if you’re on PC as main platform and only use the consoles for rare exclusives. The yearly stats showed that I used my PS5 less than 10 hours last year. Still preordered a PS5 Pro because waiting for PC ports can be brutal (Where’s Stellar Blade!!?!!) and there is no way I’ll waste games on the weakest possible hardware those exclusives can play on, base model is going to be the equivalent of Series S going forward.
And at my location: base model $650 + Pro $1,000. So I will have paid $1,650 this generation to play 5-10 timed exclusives early, which I usually buy on Steam as well later on.
Some day I hope I’ll be strong enough to skip consoles completely. .

 

[ShakenG]

Good on them for using the correct tflops number instead of the inflated one that retards on twitter were using. not to mention AMD themselves.

extra 2GB of ram for os is massive since it opens up the full 16 gb for games. thats fucking huge considering just how much of an issue varm is becoming on PC GPUs.

biggest fuck up is the 28% memory bandwidth upgrade especially since that was the main issue that affected the ps4 pro in several games. the fact that this gpu has 67% more tflops and is resulting in only 45% more performance also indicates a bottleneck somewhere and the memory bottleneck could be it. either that or AMD was right and you need infinity cache to improve performance when increasing CUs.

390 watt power supply means this is likely a 300+ watt console. i wouldnt be surprised if this is on 6nm.

My thoughts exactly. Especially on a platform where 256MB could be significant to give back. 2GB sounds hefty.

 

[CS Lurker]

The screenshot below is in Spanish

Poor Brazilians. People never know their language.

 

[Hoddi]

Good on them for using the correct tflops number instead of the inflated one that retards on twitter were using. not to mention AMD themselves.

extra 2GB of ram for os is massive since it opens up the full 16 gb for games. thats fucking huge considering just how much of an issue varm is becoming on PC GPUs.

biggest fuck up is the 28% memory bandwidth upgrade especially since that was the main issue that affected the ps4 pro in several games. the fact that this gpu has 67% more tflops and is resulting in only 45% more performance also indicates a bottleneck somewhere and the memory bottleneck could be it. either that or AMD was right and you need infinity cache to improve performance when increasing CUs.

390 watt power supply means this is likely a 300+ watt console. i wouldnt be surprised if this is on 6nm.

I wouldn't exactly call it 'massive'. It frees up a bit of memory for an 8k frontend but I wouldn't expect this to have much effect on games.

More than anything, it just signals that they're going to push 8k. Having an extra 2GB of DDR5 won't be very useful in games.

 

[SlimySnake]

I wouldn't exactly call it 'massive'. It frees up a bit of memory for an 8k frontend but I wouldn't expect this to have much effect on games.

More than anything, it just signals that they're going to push 8k. Having an extra 2GB of DDR5 won't be very useful in games.

the 2GB DDR5 is only for the OS. its not for games.

Previously, the ps5 used 12.5 gb of Gddr5 for games. so 3.5 gb was reserved for the os. iirc, there were recent reports that some of this was freed up recently due to reducing the OS footprint. but having a dedicated 2GB of slower ddr5 ram just for OS will free up at least 2GB for games, and likely the full 16GB. this is exactly what happened with the ps4 pro which got an additional 1gb of ddr4 ram that opened up around 1.5 gb for pro games from the 8 gb gddr5 pool.

 

[//DEVIL//]

It’s even more annoying if you’re on PC as main platform and only use the consoles for rare exclusives. The yearly stats showed that I used my PS5 less than 10 hours last year. Still preordered a PS5 Pro because waiting for PC ports can be brutal (Where’s Stellar Blade!!?!!) and there is no way I’ll waste games on the weakest possible hardware those exclusives can play on, base model is going to be the equivalent of Series S going forward.
And at my location: base model $650 + Pro $1,000. So I will have paid $1,650 this generation to play 5-10 timed exclusives early, which I usually buy on Steam as well later on.
Some day I hope I’ll be strong enough to skip consoles completely. .

I will not skip completely. I was raised on consoles and its part of me. I will never resist buying Playstation 6 for example. I am the same as you and PC is my main. and I only my PS5 for the super exclusives that I do want to play day one. Like God of war, GT7, Final Fantasy series. I know most of these games wil come to PC. but some I can't wait. I need to play them. The same is going to be with GTA6 for example. as the PC version will be in like forever.

honestly the price of the PS5 or the pro or even if it was more expensive isnt the problem. Just stick to one console per generation.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

the 2GB DDR5 is only for the OS. its not for games.

Previously, the ps5 used 12.5 gb of Gddr5 for games. so 3.5 gb was reserved for the os. iirc, there were recent reports that some of this was freed up recently due to reducing the OS footprint. but having a dedicated 2GB of slower ddr5 ram just for OS will free up at least 2GB for games, and likely the full 16GB. this is exactly what happened with the ps4 pro which got an additional 1gb of ddr4 ram that opened up around 1.5 gb for pro games from the 8 gb gddr5 pool.

So the 2 GB DDR5 has less latency than GDDR6? Does that mean the OS can theoretically be even faster?

 

[//DEVIL//]

omg i just noticed the memory is DDR5 2GB...

Note : its a joke I know its for the OS only. but still too small lol.

 

[tusharngf]

400w PSU limit is broken. Finally they made a monster instead of making a powerful laptop.

 

[Fess]

I will not skip completely. I was raised on consoles and its part of me. I will never resist buying Playstation 6 for example. I am the same as you and PC is my main. and I only my PS5 for the super exclusives that I do want to play day one. Like God of war, GT7, Final Fantasy series. I know most of these games wil come to PC. but some I can't wait. I need to play them. The same is going to be with GTA6 for example. as the PC version will be in like forever.

honestly the price of the PS5 or the pro or even if it was more expensive isnt the problem. Just stick to one console per generation.

It’s an unsolvable equation for me. I lose no matter what I do.

1. Skip consoles.
= Wait for console exclusives. How long? 1 year? 6 years? Forever? Nobody knows.

2. Skip PC.
= Miss out on the best visuals and performance and mods.

3. Only buy the base model consoles.
= Play the worst possible versions of the late generation console exclusives.

4. Only buy the Pro consoles.
= Wait 4 years on all the early generation console exclusives.

I wish I was casual. Could play everything using the cloud or play Sony games on PS4 until PS5 Slim is $199 and play MS games on Series S or a laptop. Could use the money on guitars or whatever instead.

 

[hlm666]

400W peak power draw, that's quite a lot for a console. Well good, I though there is some limitation (I know people were throwing 300W back in 2020) how much you can do with such device. Good to hear

It's probably not a good thing in the long run that even consoles seem to be needing to jack up power now to increase performance. If the only way to get like current topline pc performance in 4 years time is to use 500 watts of power it's goping to be another area of increased cost for larger psu and cooling system.

Is power draw the real reason amd are skipping top end gpus with rdna4?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Is power draw the real reason amd are skipping top end gpus with rdna4?

No, I think they just aren't competitive with NVIDIA's market there.

 

[SmokSmog]

390W PSU so probably 250-260W power under full load
PS5 fat has 350W PSU and sucks 220W~ from the wall under full load .

And GPU clock is at 2175mhz chence the 16.7TF FP32

 

[KaiserBecks]

Sooooooo…
I was curious and made some quick searches and maths. The 45% increase in performance never added at to me since the 28% increase in memory bandwidth was always going to be the limiting factor. The PS5 allocates 2,5GB for system memory. That’s about 15,6% of the total bandwidth of the system. So about 70GB/s. If you subtract that to the whole memory system the gains are closer to 52% in memory bandwidth, which gets us closer to that 45% figure. Give or take a few inefficiencies and probably that’s where that figure comes from.

PS5 Pro is a beast and that’s even without adding Kurt Angle to the mix.

 

[saintjules]

It’s even more annoying if you’re on PC as main platform and only use the consoles for rare exclusives. The yearly stats showed that I used my PS5 less than 10 hours last year. Still preordered a PS5 Pro because waiting for PC ports can be brutal (Where’s Stellar Blade!!?!!) and there is no way I’ll waste games on the weakest possible hardware those exclusives can play on, base model is going to be the equivalent of Series S going forward.
And at my location: base model $650 + Pro $1,000. So I will have paid $1,650 this generation to play 5-10 timed exclusives early, which I usually buy on Steam as well later on.
Some day I hope I’ll be strong enough to skip consoles completely. .

How can PC be superior when there's no official Bloodborne port, let alone Stellar Blade? I ain't waiting for shit like that.

 

[Loxus]

the 2GB DDR5 is only for the OS. its not for games.

Previously, the ps5 used 12.5 gb of Gddr5 for games. so 3.5 gb was reserved for the os. iirc, there were recent reports that some of this was freed up recently due to reducing the OS footprint. but having a dedicated 2GB of slower ddr5 ram just for OS will free up at least 2GB for games, and likely the full 16GB. this is exactly what happened with the ps4 pro which got an additional 1gb of ddr4 ram that opened up around 1.5 gb for pro games from the 8 gb gddr5 pool.

I don't think it's for OS in the way most of think it is. That would mean it would have a split memory pool like XBSX, which Cerny doesn't like. Which means the CPU doesn't benefit from that 2GB DDR5.


On PS4 Pro, it was separate form the main chip and acted as cache.

The nitty-gritty details of the PS4 Pro, according to system architect Mark Cerny / More power, at what cost?
It also makes use of its system memory in a more efficient fashion, using a higher bandwidth on the 8GB of GDDR5 memory to squeeze out an additional 512MB for game developers to make use of. An additional 1GB of conventional DRAM was put in the Pro to help it switch applications, so software like Netflix will be stored on the DRAM when open but not in use.

Here we can see the PS4 Pro's motherboard, which shows the 1GB DDR3 connected to the SCEI I/O controller (Auxiliary processor) and not the main chip.

PlayStation 4 Pro Teardown

Same for PS4 as well, but with 256 MB of DDR3.
PlayStation 4 technical specifications

Auxiliary processor​

The PS4 includes a secondary ARM processor (with separate 256 MiB of RAM) to assist with background functions and OS features.


On the PS5, we can see a similar approach. 512MB DDR4 is connected to the SSD controller as cache.

PlayStation 5 Teardown

If Sony is following what they did with the PS4 Pro, the 512MB DDR4 would increase and change to 2GB DDR5.

PSSR and Ray Tracing memory utilization is probably the reason they went with 2GB.

The PS5's SSD controller actually handles a lot of stuff.

 

[kevboard]

Still not worth it?

 

[Haint]

None of it matters.

It could be a supercomputer and people would still bitch and moan because of the sticker shock.

Rational breakdowns of component costs? Who cares. Comparisons with the price of equivalent PC hardware? Ok egghead.

None of that generates clicks like a disgruntled Youtube thumbnail does.

It's called Brokie mentality.

PS. They all have bad breath most likely.

Literally no one would be bitching if this thing was on par or outperforming even a 4080 (which is over 2 years old at this point). The problem is when you start to hit certain price tiers (i.e. $850 for a disc edition with tax), people aren't so eager to pay that much for a fourth or fifth class experience. Nearing $1000 for gaming hardware is courting premium shoppers looking for a top tier experience, and Sony is absolutely competing for mindshare with impending $699 5070's and 999$ 5080's that will run circles around Pro. High end GPU's aren't actually competition or reasonable substitutions against a $399 PS5, but they are against a $780 Pro. No one entertaining $850 for a Pro is pinching pennies trying to buy used PC shit off Craigslist, they have disposable income and the means to increase their budget without skipping meals.

 

[amigastar]

Why no Frame Generation, i don't get it?

 

[Tarnpanzer]

Why no Frame Generation, i don't get it?

PSSR should be compatible to use in tandem with FSR3.

 

[existensmaximum]

So on the whole, this is what an additional $250 gets you:

Still not worth it?

No, because in my country it costs twice as much as the base PS5.

 

[amigastar]

PSSR should be compatible to use in tandem with FSR3.

Maybe if we get lucky it will be compatible with FSR4 when that comes out.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sony is absolutely competing for mindshare with impending $699 5070's and 999$ 5080's that will run circles around Pro.

 

[RavionUHD]

16,7 Teraflops would result in a core frequency of 2170 Mhz for the GPU, which is a bit lower than the PS5 GPU frequency (which is 2230 Mhz).

Comparing it to PC GPU's, the RX 7700XT has 17,5 Teraflops and the RX 7800XT has 18,6 Teraflops.

 

[jm89]

Literally no one would be bitching if this thing was on par or outperforming even a 4080 (which is over 2 years old at this point). The problem is when you start to hit certain price tiers (i.e. $850 for a disc edition with tax), people aren't so eager to pay that much for a fourth or fifth class experience. Nearing $1000 for gaming hardware is courting premium shoppers looking for a top tier experience, and Sony is absolutely competing for mindshare with impending $699 5070's and 999$ 5080's that will run circles around Pro. High end GPU's aren't actually competition or reasonable substitutions against a $399 PS5, but they are against a $780 Pro. No one entertaining $850 for a Pro is pinching pennies trying to buy used PC shit off Craigslist, they have disposable income and the means to increase their budget without skipping meals.

 

[Fess]

How can PC be superior when there's no official Bloodborne port, let alone Stellar Blade? I ain't waiting for shit like that.

Waiting sucks but if I can go higher on both framerates and visuals then that’s where I want to play the games. It’s the same as PS5 fans dreaming about Xbox games on PS5 with Pro enhancements instead of playing on Series X now.

We know Stellar Blade is coming but as usual we don’t know when. I assume it’ll be minimum 1 year exclusive to PS5. The PC release should be nice, will probably have some sweet sweet mods, I think it’ll be a fun release. But in that case I’ll go in first on Pro, been saving that one a long time already, only played the demo.

Bloodborne is probably a lost cause until the emulated version is good or Bluepoint remake it, which will be delayed on PC as usual… sigh

 

[twilo99]

Could GPU still be RDNA2 with tacked on RDNA4 RT? Don't shoot me, ok!

They specify exactly what kind of CPU it has but not the GPU for whatever reason. It has to be RDNA4 tho

 

[peish]

I don't think it's for OS in the way most of think it is. That would mean it would have a split memory pool like XBSX, which Cerny doesn't like. Which means the CPU doesn't benefit from that 2GB DDR5.


On PS4 Pro, it was separate form the main chip and acted as cache.

The nitty-gritty details of the PS4 Pro, according to system architect Mark Cerny / More power, at what cost?
It also makes use of its system memory in a more efficient fashion, using a higher bandwidth on the 8GB of GDDR5 memory to squeeze out an additional 512MB for game developers to make use of. An additional 1GB of conventional DRAM was put in the Pro to help it switch applications, so software like Netflix will be stored on the DRAM when open but not in use.

Here we can see the PS4 Pro's motherboard, which shows the 1GB DDR3 connected to the SCEI I/O controller (Auxiliary processor) and not the main chip.

PlayStation 4 Pro Teardown

Same for PS4 as well, but with 256 MB of DDR3.
PlayStation 4 technical specifications

Auxiliary processor​

The PS4 includes a secondary ARM processor (with separate 256 MiB of RAM) to assist with background functions and OS features.


On the PS5, we can see a similar approach. 512MB DDR4 is connected to the SSD controller as cache.

PlayStation 5 Teardown

If Sony is following what they did with the PS4 Pro, the 512MB DDR4 would increase and change to 2GB DDR5.

PSSR and Ray Tracing memory utilization is probably the reason they went with 2GB.

The PS5's SSD controller actually handles a lot of stuff.

Yes i was also wondering how will the new 2GB DDR5 interface with APU in traditional sense.

Looking back at ps4 to ps5, Mark Sony likes to have separate memory pool for certain OS functions but why not advertsed this? It makes the consoles specs sounds bigger!

Is there a breakdown of PS OS? How it do things differently, from say Windows, with such split memory at hardware level?

 

[Kumomeme]

someone explain this specs in term of DBZ power scalling

 

[Codeblew]

He should try running games on just a graphics card.

 

[AteBitWolf]

Can't wait to get mine and start testing some older games.

 

[kiphalfton]

Ok so it was May of last year I shared the TF number

Damn. Doesn't look like there's a cookie reaction on gaf.

Best I can do:

 

[KeplerL2]

They specify exactly what kind of CPU it has but not the GPU for whatever reason. It has to be RDNA4 tho

I'd call it RDNA 3.75

 

[SweetTooth]

someone explain this specs in term of DBZ power scalling

Who is the most powerful? ... yes that

 

[AteBitWolf]

still less than most pcs

Fuck your pcs

 

[RobRSG]

800€ for a 16Teraflop machine…

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Literally no one would be bitching if this thing was on par or outperforming even a 4080 (which is over 2 years old at this point). The problem is when you start to hit certain price tiers (i.e. $850 for a disc edition with tax), people aren't so eager to pay that much for a fourth or fifth class experience. Nearing $1000 for gaming hardware is courting premium shoppers looking for a top tier experience, and Sony is absolutely competing for mindshare with impending $699 5070's and 999$ 5080's that will run circles around Pro. High end GPU's aren't actually competition or reasonable substitutions against a $399 PS5, but they are against a $780 Pro. No one entertaining $850 for a Pro is pinching pennies trying to buy used PC shit off Craigslist, they have disposable income and the means to increase their budget without skipping meals.

Is this a copypasta?

 

[tommib]

More ram for games is really, really cool.

 

[Kamina]

800€ for a 16Teraflop machine…

Analysis - Can 695$ PC outperform PS5 Pro?

Best build i could find for PS5 Pro money. What do you guys think? Does it comes close or even better than PS5 Pro? Edit: specs- Intel i5 12600KF RTX 3060ti 16GB DDR4 3200 ram 1TB drive

www.neogaf.com

 

[chokotoureiki]

None of it matters.

It could be a supercomputer and people would still bitch and moan because of the sticker shock.

Rational breakdowns of component costs? Who cares. Comparisons with the price of equivalent PC hardware? Ok egghead.

None of that generates clicks like a disgruntled Youtube thumbnail does.

That's probably the same expressions they make when taking a horrid shit.

 

[Loboxxx]

Whether it's worth the price or not, at least in my case, will be when I see sharp games like Dragon Dogma 2, Final Fantasy, Monster Hunter Wild, Renmant 2, etc at a stable 60fps.

 

[DinoD]

800€ for a 16Teraflop machine…

Do you know any 16TF machine that could be bought/put together for 800? Sick of this PC shit comparison.

 

[Xtib81]

Specs are decent even though the lack of a CPU bump is disappointing but I still don't see a 800€ console for the specs.

 

[jm89]

 

[Loboxxx]

800€ for a 16Teraflop machine…

How much do 16TF machines cost?

 

[Zathalus]

the 2GB DDR5 is only for the OS. its not for games.

Previously, the ps5 used 12.5 gb of Gddr5 for games. so 3.5 gb was reserved for the os. iirc, there were recent reports that some of this was freed up recently due to reducing the OS footprint. but having a dedicated 2GB of slower ddr5 ram just for OS will free up at least 2GB for games, and likely the full 16GB. this is exactly what happened with the ps4 pro which got an additional 1gb of ddr4 ram that opened up around 1.5 gb for pro games from the 8 gb gddr5 pool.

The 2GB is indeed for the OS, but it translates to a 13.7GB usable for games, up from the 12.5GB the base PS5 has. These figures were from the DF leak, and are straight from the developer portal.

 

[Heisenberg007]

No, this should be $550 at most without drive and feet

Come on, dude. PS5 Standard is $550. Does anyone really think that the $80 difference of the disc drive is equivalent to the bigger GPU, WiFi-7 chip, RDNA 4 ray-tracing, ML hardware, PSSR tech, 1 TB additional SSD, etc.?

Let's be realistic.

$699 is absolutely a lot of money, but PS5 Pro still literally is the cheapest device for high-end gaming.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If it’s 4nm why does it need a nearly 400W power supply?

 

[panda-zebra]

Do you know any 16TF machine that could be bought/put together for 800? Sick of this PC shit comparison.

Not off the top of his head, but I've a feeling he'll get back to you when research is complete...