• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Official RNC topic 2.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Alcibiades

Member
Slurpy said:
I have a hypothetical questions to you people who are supporting Bush.

If, hypothetically, there is another attack on US soil before the elections- will that strengthen or weaken the Presidents case. The thing is, he wins both ways.

The whole campaign has been based around the fact that America is safer. Logically, a 2nd attack would imply this is not true. However, sadly, it would be used as more fuel for the campaign as to why Bush needs to be re-elected. There is no measuring stick to this success. The anything that would negate this succcess will only be used to bolster Bush.
Its a fucking stupid scenario. You can never 'dissprove' the effectiveness of the 'war on terror'. Every attack will make the case stronger.
I don't think that an attack in necessarily something that would help him win re-election, even though some analysts believe that.

Things are so strange nowadays who knows what would happen. Look what happened in Spain.

I've never thought it would in any way help him, but rather how much it would hurt him, or how would Kerry react. It depends on too many things...
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Things are so strange nowadays who knows what would happen. Look what happened in Spain.
What? You mean the then-current and already not-so-popular administration's denial of the identity of the attackers lead the people to change their vote within previous polls' margin of error?
 

Alcibiades

Member
yeah, but I think the protests/marches and attacks from the socialist parties about how supporting the US and Britain caused terror changed some minds at the last minute.
 

Baron Aloha

A Shining Example
Slurpy said:
If, hypothetically, there is another attack on US soil before the elections- will that strengthen or weaken the Presidents case.

I'm not supporting Bush but I'll gladly answer anyway. Basically, he would be finished IMO. The dems would say that he was incompetant and it would probably stick to him this time.

The only thing he might be able to do to spin it would be to say that it is impossible to stop every terrorist attack and that the terrorists did this because they want a change in government because he (Bush) is doing such a good job at going after them. Essentially he would be making the argument that a vote for John Kerry = helping the terrorists. Come to think of it, this would not be much of a stretch from his current position.
 

Alcibiades

Member
I saw that post-CNN thing in the re-run in the middle of the night, IMO it wasn't really ownage. He kinda looked flubbed and had to look through his notes, but it was basically a "But, But" vs. "But, But" type exchange. Pretty unextraordinary.
 

HAOHMARU

Member
I can't wait for tonight O'Riely factor. He is going to talk about the protester that knocked out that police officer and who he is :)
 
HAOHMARU said:
I can't wait for tonight O'Riely factor. He is going to talk about the protester that knocked out that police officer and who he is :)

wow! quite possibly the best topic during the RNC, and on the eve of president bush's speech, too!
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
JC10001 said:
I'm not supporting Bush but I'll gladly answer anyway. Basically, he would be finished IMO. The dems would say that he was incompetant and it would probably stick to him this time.

The only thing he might be able to do to spin it would be to say that it is impossible to stop every terrorist attack and that the terrorists did this because they want a change in government because he (Bush) is doing such a good job at going after them. Essentially he would be making the argument that a vote for John Kerry = helping the terrorists. Come to think of it, this would not be much of a stretch from his current position.

I'm not sure about that. They would capitalize on the fact that it would be unthinkable to replace the commander in chief during such a crisis, and tie it in with Kerry's 'weakness', etc. It can go either way, who knows. It may solidify it for either depending on the american mantality.
 

KingV

Member
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:
This is a lie. Kerry has said that he would still have voted to give the authority to take action on Iraq to Pres. Bush, as he did. This Congressional gesture helped us pressure Saddam into making concessions on inspections, etc., until Bush abused the authority he was given and acted rashly. There was no direct vote on an invasion of Iraq.

The Republican attacks on Kerry are 99% based on lies and misrepresentations.

Actually, what really happened is that Kerry voted to not give the President Authority to act in Iraq during Gulf War I and got burned badly for it, I expect he did not want to make the same mistake twice.

Further you're making a semantic argument. While technically, yes, Congress voted to authorize the use of force on Iraq, it was obvious to anyone halfway intelligent that President Bush fully intended to invade Iraq. Particularly in October of 2002, when it really started kicking into full swing.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/0/9/0/8/7/9/A0908792.html
Note from this Iraq War timeline:

-Sept. 12: President Bush addresses the UN, challenging the organization to swiftly enforce its own resolutions against Iraq. If not, Bush contends, the U.S. will have no choice but to act on its own against Iraq.

-Oct. 11: Congress authorizes an attack on Iraq.

Either Kerry is backpedaling or a fool, if he thought that we should not invade Iraq, then he shouldn't have voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq, especially since the President already made it clear that he fully intended to invade Iraq without UN support before Kerry voted to authorize it. Either Kerry wasn't doing his job properly as a Senator, or he thought the President was lying. It's that simple. Like many other issues, Kerry wants it both ways. He has to take responsibility for his voting record if he wants people to take him seriously. I think Kerry's recent fall in the polls indicates that the American public is starting to catch on to his schtick.

Bush: Hey congress authorize an attack on Iraq. I fully intend to attack Iraq and depose Saddam Hussein if He doesn't step down from power.
Congress: We vote yes, you can do that.
Bush: Ok, I'm goind to do it now.
Kerry: Wait,that's not what I meant.
 

KingV

Member
Catchpenny said:
:lol :lol :lol

Wanna place a bet on that? Bush will have a lead coming out of the convention, but it'll remain within the MoE of most if not all major polls.

I take Bush by 5 points in the popular vote come November 2nd, unless there's a drastic shift in Kerry's campaign strategy or an unforeseen development that heavily damages the Bush campaign. While I don't think the Nader factor will be as big as last election (it essentially lost the election for Gore), it's not going to help much, as indepents will surely eat up at least a point or two, most of which will be siphoned off of Kerry's votes.
 

KingV

Member
Sorry to edit while you were writing it, I found that link like 2 seconds after I wrote the original post and was trying to squeeze it in before anyone responded. That was poor forum etiquette, my bad, I don't mean to seem like I'm trying to revise forum thread history to change the discussion.

Apologies.
 
Oh man I'm excited about Bush' speech tonight. His words:

"Tax relief is on the way. Don't go spending it all in one place."

PLEASE let this be the Fair Tax plan.
 

Hamfam

Junior Member
KingV said:
Actually, what really happened is that Kerry voted to not give the President Authority to act in Iraq during Gulf War I and got burned badly for it, I expect he did not want to make the same mistake twice.

Further you're making a semantic argument. While technically, yes, Congress voted to authorize the use of force on Iraq, it was obvious to anyone halfway intelligent that President Bush fully intended to invade Iraq. Particularly in October of 2002, when it really started kicking into full swing.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/0/9/0/8/7/9/A0908792.html
Note from this Iraq War timeline:

-Sept. 12: President Bush addresses the UN, challenging the organization to swiftly enforce its own resolutions against Iraq. If not, Bush contends, the U.S. will have no choice but to act on its own against Iraq.

-Oct. 11: Congress authorizes an attack on Iraq.

Either Kerry is backpedaling or a fool, if he thought that we should not invade Iraq, then he shouldn't have voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq, especially since the President already made it clear that he fully intended to invade Iraq without UN support before Kerry voted to authorize it. Either Kerry wasn't doing his job properly as a Senator, or he thought the President was lying. It's that simple. Like many other issues, Kerry wants it both ways. He has to take responsibility for his voting record if he wants people to take him seriously. I think Kerry's recent fall in the polls indicates that the American public is starting to catch on to his schtick.

Bush: Hey congress authorize an attack on Iraq. I fully intend to attack Iraq and depose Saddam Hussein if He doesn't step down from power.
Congress: We vote yes, you can do that.
Bush: Ok, I'm goind to do it now.
Kerry: Wait,that's not what I meant.

uhm, the weapons inspectors didn't even go back into the country until like December. And even up until March, the day of invasion, Bush was still giving it that "Well, we're waiting for Saddam to get rid of his WMD, if he does, we won't invade". Of course, the joke being, he didn't have any.
 

Alcibiades

Member
Hamfam said:
uhm, the weapons inspectors didn't even go back into the country until like December. And even up until March, the day of invasion, Bush was still giving it that "Well, we're waiting for Saddam to get rid of his WMD, if he does, we won't invade". Of course, the joke being, he didn't have any.

actually, Bush/Blair were giving "we need verification as to what happened to the weapons, where they went, and if they were destroyed, proof for the inspectors"

Of course, the joke is I think Iraq kinda followed through on some of it, but nobody believed it, as they didn't have papers trails, just some scientists telling them, or something like that.

In retrospect, Saddam kinda complied (not 100%, but some)...
 

KingV

Member
Hamfam said:
uhm, the weapons inspectors didn't even go back into the country until like December. And even up until March, the day of invasion, Bush was still giving it that "Well, we're waiting for Saddam to get rid of his WMD, if he does, we won't invade". Of course, the joke being, he didn't have any.

You can't fault Bush for doing what he said he would do. You can only fault Kerry for not believing him. He was very clear before the vote to authorize military force against Iraq that the US fully intended to unilaterally invade Iraq. He said he would do it, and then, he did it. You might not agree with the use of force in Iraq, but how can Kerry specifically say "Oh I didn't think he would do it, so I voted to authorize it.", and people listen to that with a straight face. There is nothing nuanced about a Yay or Nay vote. It's either yes, I agree with this, or no I don't. You would be daft to vote in favor of something because you thought it would never happen.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Let's say I were your boss, and I said "here, show these visiting Japanese businessmen a good time." Does that mean I authorize you to hire them hookers and have a big bukkake in their honor?

Authorizing the reasonable use of military force is not the same as authorizing the immediate and untempered use of military force. You may as well suggest Kerry, by voting for military force, also by implication encouraged the Abu Ghraib scandal. There is an expectation that when someone is 'authorized' to do something, they are expected to go about it in a reasonable way. I don't think your argument holds a lot of water unless the vote was explicitly for immediate action before the UN weapons inspectors had finished their job.
 
KingV said:
You can't fault Bush for doing what he said he would do. You can only fault Kerry for not believing him. He was very clear before the vote to authorize military force against Iraq that the US fully intended to unilaterally invade Iraq. He said he would do it, and then, he did it. You might not agree with the use of force in Iraq, but how can Kerry specifically say "Oh I didn't think he would do it, so I voted to authorize it.", and people listen to that with a straight face. There is nothing nuanced about a Yay or Nay vote. It's either yes, I agree with this, or no I don't. You would be daft to vote in favor of something because you thought it would never happen.
I can see how Kerry can make a distinction. I can't find the source of this quote, but I've heard it paraphrased as "I voted for the authority, but I didn't think he'd fuck it up so bad."

Still, though, that's one of the areas where I don't like Kerry's stance. The way he describes it now sounds diplomatically ideal... but as you said, it was pretty obvious Bush wasn't just going for another bargaining chip by then.
 

KingV

Member
maharg said:
Let's say I were your boss, and I said "here, show these visiting Japanese businessmen a good time." Does that mean I authorize you to hire them hookers and have a big bukkake in their honor?

Authorizing the reasonable use of military force is not the same as authorizing the immediate and untempered use of military force. You may as well suggest Kerry, by voting for military force, also by implication encouraged the Abu Ghraib scandal. There is an expectation that when someone is 'authorized' to do something, they are expected to go about it in a reasonable way. I don't think your argument holds a lot of water unless the vote was explicitly for immediate action before the UN weapons inspectors had finished their job.

What was a reasonable expectation? Bush was going to the UN to militarily enforce the UN resolutions. That clearly meant an invasion. I mean, how much should Kerry have expected? I would certainly expect the use of military power in Iraq to mean "Kick Saddam's Ass", maybe he expected a Clintonian response of launching a couple Tomahawks? Besides, Kerry said that he would make the same vote again, knowing what he now knows. I think that's an implicit recognition that he expected a large military expenditure. Hell here's an article from the same day the vote was taken stating that the US "is developing a detailed plan to occupy Iraq and install an American-led military government in Baghdad if the US topples Saddam Hussein."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2320625.stm

You're practicing revisionist history by pretending that nobody thought we'd really invade in late 2002.

Here's a response to the Resolution from California Democrat Rep. Pete Stark on why he didn't vote in favor of the Resolution, from Oct 10th, 2002:

"The bottom line is I don't trust this president and his advisors.

"Make no mistake, we are voting on a resolution that grants total authority to the president, who wants to invade a sovereign nation without any specific act of provocation. This would authorize the United States to act as the aggressor for the first time in our history. It sets a precedent for our nation -- or any nation -- to exercise brute force anywhere in the world without regard to international law or international consensus.

This guy knew what was going to happen, did Kerry not go to work that day or what? Why are you so quick to give Kerry a free pass on this, the overwhelming body of evidence suggests that there's no way Kerry could not have known that Bush intended to invade Iraq, depose Saddam Hussein, and install a temporary government.
 

Dilbert

Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
I can see how Kerry can make a distinction. I can't find the source of this quote, but I've heard it paraphrased as "I voted for the authority, but I didn't think he'd fuck it up so bad."

Still, though, that's one of the areas where I don't like Kerry's stance. The way he describes it now sounds diplomatically ideal... but as you said, it was pretty obvious Bush wasn't just going for another bargaining chip by then.
The thing you have to remember is that Senators are supposed to represent the interests of their consituency. If the people of Massachusetts supported that position on the vote...what else was he going to do? To the best of my knowledge, practically the whole nation was whipped up into a pro-war fervor at that point.

There are two models in a representative democracy for how elected officials are supposed to relate to the electorate. In the representative model, the official is supposed to vote or act in such a way as to reflect the majority opinion of his portion of the electorate (in American terms, his district). However, in the trustee model, elected officials are supposed to make independent decisions based on their own judgment to best serve the welfare of the people. The problem, of course, is that people switch back and forth between the models when it's convenient to their cause. Politicians' first job is to get reelected, and that requires them to satisfy their constituency that he/she is covering their narrow interests. However, their political opponents want to personalize their voting record -- "look, Senator X doesn't believe in such-and-such because he voted a certain way!" -- even though a) it may not represent all of their personal views and b) a particular bill is usually not one-to-one with a certain issue.
 
The resolution did contain a couple of caveats; it wasn't entirely a blank check. Here's the relevant language:

(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

In other words, it asked the President to make an effort to exhaust the possiblities for peaceful resolution before invading. Kerry didn''t think Bush adequately did so.

King is basically attacking Kerry on the grounds that he should have realized how untrustworthy Bush is. That might have been an reason to vote for Dean or some other more antiwar candidate in the primaries, but it's hardly an argument to vote for Bush. ("You fucked up! You trusted me!")
 
I agree with what you say, -jinx-. It doesn't mean, though, I'd be pleased if someone voted for a war they were otherwise against because their constituents were in a fervor.

For Giuliani to go First he says he's an anti-war candidate, now a pro-war candidate! is still a stretching misrepresentation of the facts, but two stretches don't make an I-agree-with-John.
 

KingV

Member
(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq

That part is the key. Notice that it's either peaceful means will not protect American interests *OR* will not lead to enforcement of all UNSC resolutions regarding Iraq. The Franco-Russo-Germanic campaign in the UNSC against the use of force in Iraq basically forced Bush's hand to either put up or shut up. This is an interesting find, I was unable to quickly google up the exact text of the resolution, but this still reads pretty much like a blank check to me.
 
King, here's an excerpt from Kerry's remarks on the Senate floor from October 9, 2002, regarding the resolution. I think his position is pretty clear, unless you're being willfully obtuse.

When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security and that of our allies in the Persian Gulf region. I will vote yes because I believe it is the best way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable. And the administration, I believe, is now committed to a recognition that war must be the last option to address this threat, not the first, and that we must act in concert with allies around the globe to make the world's case against Saddam Hussein.

As the President made clear earlier this week, ``Approving this resolution does not mean that military action is imminent or unavoidable.'' It means ``America speaks with one voice.''

Let me be clear, the vote I will give to the President is for one reason and one reason only: To disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, if we cannot accomplish that objective through new, tough weapons inspections in joint concert with our allies.

In giving the President this authority, I expect him to fulfill the commitments he has made to the American people in recent days--to work with the United Nations Security Council to adopt a new resolution setting out tough and immediate inspection requirements, and to act with our allies at our side if we have to disarm Saddam Hussein by force. If he fails to do so, I will be among the first to speak out.

If we do wind up going to war with Iraq , it is imperative that we do so with others in the international community, unless there is a showing of a grave, imminent--and I emphasize ``imminent''--threat to this country which requires the President to respond in a way that protects our immediate national security needs.

Prime Minister Tony Blair has recognized a similar need to distinguish how we approach this. He has said that he believes we should move in concert with allies, and he has promised his own party that he will not do so otherwise. The administration may not be in the habit of building coalitions, but that is what they need to do. And it is what can be done. If we go it alone without reason, we risk inflaming an entire region, breeding a new generation of terrorists, a new cadre of anti-American zealots, and we will be less secure, not more secure, at the end of the day, even with Saddam Hussein disarmed.

Let there be no doubt or confusion about where we stand on this. I will support a multilateral effort to disarm him by force, if we ever exhaust those other options, as the President has promised, but I will not support a unilateral U.S. war against Iraq unless that threat is imminent and the multilateral effort has not proven possible under any circumstances.

In voting to grant the President the authority, I am not giving him carte blanche to run roughshod over every country that poses or may pose some kind of potential threat to the United States. Every nation has the right to act preemptively, if it faces an imminent and grave threat, for its self-defense under the standards of law. The threat we face today with Iraq does not meet that test yet. I emphasize ``yet.'' Yes, it is grave because of the deadliness of Saddam Hussein's arsenal and the very high probability that he might use these weapons one day if not disarmed. But it is not imminent, and no one in the CIA, no intelligence briefing we have had suggests it is imminent. None of our intelligence reports suggest that he is about to launch an attack.

The argument for going to war against Iraq is rooted in enforcement of the international community's demand that he disarm. It is not rooted in the doctrine of preemption. Nor is the grant of authority in this resolution an acknowledgment that Congress accepts or agrees with the President's new strategic doctrine of preemption. Just the opposite. This resolution clearly limits the authority given to the President to use force in Iraq, and Iraq only, and for the specific purpose of defending the United States against the threat posed by Iraq and enforcing relevant Security Council resolutions.

The definition of purpose circumscribes the authority given to the President to the use of force to disarm Iraq because only Iraq's weapons of mass destruction meet the two criteria
laid out in this resolution.

Congressional action on this resolution is not the end of our national debate on how best to disarm Iraq. Nor does it mean we have exhausted all of our peaceful options to achieve this goal. There is much more to be done. The administration must continue its efforts to build support at the United Nations for a new, unfettered, unconditional weapons inspection regime. If we can eliminate the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction through inspections, whenever, wherever, and however we want them, including in palaces--and I am highly skeptical, given the full record, given their past practices, that we can necessarily achieve that--then we have an obligation to try that as the first course of action before we expend American lives in any further effort.

American success in the Persian Gulf war was enhanced by the creation of an international coalition. Our coalition partners picked up the overwhelming burden of the cost of that war. It is imperative that the administration continue to work to multilateralize the current effort against Iraq. If the administration's initiatives at the United Nations are real and sincere, other nations are more likely to invest, to stand behind our efforts to force Iraq to disarm, be it through a new, rigorous, no-nonsense program of inspection, or if necessary, through the use of force. That is the best way to proceed.

The United States, without question, has the military power to enter this conflict unilaterally. But we do need friends. We need logistical support such as bases, command and control centers, overflight rights from allies in the region. And most importantly, we need to be able to successfully wage the war on terror simultaneously. That war on terror depends more than anything else on the sharing of intelligence. That sharing of intelligence depends more than anything else on the cooperation of countries in the region. If we disrupt that, we could disrupt the possibilities of the capacity of that war to be most effectively waged.

I believe the support from the region will come only if they are convinced of the credibility of our arguments and the legitimacy of our mission. The United Nations never has veto power over any measure the United States needs to take to protect our national security. But it is in our interest to try to act with our allies, if at all possible. And that should be because the burden of eliminating the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction should not be ours alone. It should not be the American people's alone.

If in the end these efforts fail, and if in the end we are at war, we will have an obligation, ultimately, to the Iraqi people with whom we are not at war. This is a war against a regime, mostly one man. So other nations in the region and all of us will need to help create an Iraq that is a place and a force for stability and openness in the region. That effort is going to be long term, costly, and not without difficulty, given Iraq's ethnic and religious divisions and history of domestic turbulence. In Afghanistan, the administration has given more lipservice than resources to the rebuilding effort. We cannot allow that to happen in Iraq, and we must be prepared to stay the course over however many years it takes to do it right.

The challenge is great: An administration which made nation building a dirty word needs to develop a comprehensive, Marshall-type plan, if it will meet the challenge. The President needs to give the American people a fairer and fuller, clearer understanding of the magnitude and long-term financial cost of that effort.

The international community's support will be critical because we will not be able to rebuild Iraq singlehandedly. We will lack the credibility and the expertise and the capacity. [...]
 

explodet

Member
I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, but I just read this:

The campaign also unveiled a real canine attack dog last night when the White House pooch Barney was seen in a video segment debating his Democratic challenger for president, a French poodle known as Fifi Kerry.

That was another shot at Kerry's French ancestry, a trait Republicans see as making him effete and untrustworthy.
Is this true?
To me, it smacks of racism.

(I hope I'm not opening up yet another can of worms)
 
i have the whole bush speech, here's an excerpt.

America has done this kind of work before - and there have always been doubters. In 1946, 18 months after the fall of Berlin to allied forces, a journalist wrote in the New York Times, "Germany is a land in an acute stage of economic, political and moral crisis. [European] capitals are frightened. In every [military] headquarters, one meets alarmed officials doing their utmost to deal with the consequences of the occupation policy that they admit has failed." End quote. Maybe that same person's still around, writing editorials. Fortunately, we had a resolute president named Truman, who with the American people persevered, knowing that a new democracy at the center of Europe would lead to stability and peace. And because that generation of Americans held firm in the cause of liberty, we live in a better and safer world today.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
HalfPastNoon said:
i have the whole bush speech, here's an excerpt.

What Bush fails to realize is that the "war on terror" is slightly bigger in scope than World War II. Comparing the two is nearly impossible.
 

firex

Member
He's made the connection, time and time again, in a ploy to make him appear to be the kind of confident, universally respected president that FDR and Truman were.
 
here's another goodie:

Again, my opponent and I have different approaches. I proposed, and the Congress overwhelmingly passed, 87 billion dollars in funding needed by our troops doing battle in Afghanistan and Iraq. My opponent and his running mate voted against this money for bullets, and fuel, and vehicles, and body armor. When asked to explain his vote, the Senator said, "I actually did vote for the 87 billion dollars before I voted against it." Then he said he was "proud" of that vote. Then, when pressed, he said it was a "complicated" matter. There is nothing complicated about supporting our troops in combat.

JESUS CHRIST. THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING I HEAR ON FOXNEWS EVERY EVENING.
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
Is it normal to feel seething hate whenever they zoom in on audience members cheering at some amazingly assinine (and usually untrue) comment? God. Great satisfaction will beget me just thinking of what these people will feel when their candidate loses in November. I hope they all enjoy this convention.


This will be the greatest day for them during the last 4 years. It will all be over in a couple months. SO, enjoy and cheer away.

FLIP FLOP, 4 MORE YEARS... have your fun, wave your flags, smile and cheer. Then feel disdain in November.
 

firex

Member
I am enjoying these quotes, especially after the White House said earlier today that Bush's speech was going to be different from all the other speeches at the RNC attacking John Kerry.

Another Bush lie? Who would've thought it. Or maybe this is just another Bush "flip-flop."
 
this i dont understand:

I believe that America is called to lead the cause of freedom in a new century. I believe that millions in the Middle East plead in silence for their liberty. I believe that given the chance, they will embrace the most honorable form of government ever devised by man. I believe all these things because freedom is not America's gift to the world, it is the Almighty God's gift to every man and woman in this world.

i'm starting to doubt this veracity of this speech. "Almighty God's gift to every man and woman in this world."

he wouldn't really say that, would he? and what gives HIM the right to impose his values on other countries?
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
HalfPastNoon said:
he wouldn't really say that, would he? and what gives HIM the right to impose his values on other countries?

Haven't been paying much attention over the past four years, huh? ;) Bush wears his religion on his sleeve. How obvious is it? It was pointed out by a fucking Reagan.
 

KingV

Member
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:
King, here's an excerpt from Kerry's remarks on the Senate floor from October 9, 2002, regarding the resolution. I think his position is pretty clear, unless you're being willfully obtuse.

Good Find, I haven't seen that. I find it difficult to mesh Kerry's comments with voting for the authorization. It's like he delivered a speech saying we should not unilaterally enter Iraq, but then voted to allow the President to do so. I may be being cynical, but this seems like a very politically convenient position. If the war was to go well and be incredibly popular Kerry could say, "Yeah, I voted for that" if it goes sour he can say "Well, I voted for it but I actually spoke out against unilateral action." If this is truly what he believed, and he thought that it was unlikely we would actually invade Iraq, I find it just as disturbing, though not purposely misleading, that he could not see that the Bush Administration had every intention of doing what they said they would do. I remember, as a Senior in college this time frame and thinking it was pretty much inevitable that we were going to go into Iraq, and I think most articles from that time period indicate that.
 
In an ownership society, more people will own their health plans, and have the confidence of owning a piece of their retirement. We will always keep the promise of Social Security for our older workers. With the huge Baby Boom generation approaching retirement, many of our children and grandchildren understandably worry whether Social Security will be there when they need it. We must strengthen Social Security by allowing younger workers to save some of their taxes in a personal account a nest egg you can call your own, and government can never take away.

boo yeah!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom