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Official Smashing Pumpkins thread

F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
distantmantra said:
Same here. Hell, I even saw them once during the Zeitgeist tour. As a fellow AMS-Per from back in the day, it's nothing but Corgan making a pathetic attempt to relive his glory days.
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it's worse than trying to relive his glory days. if billy came out and just kind of did greatest hits shows, or did album specific tours (like Pixies, for instance) then i have no problem with that. dude has to earn a paycheck and those could be fun shows.

but instead, he is pissing on the corpse of the pumpkins by bringing out all this new garbabe. he can still write a decent song but based on the new stuff it's about 1 out of every 15 songs being decent. the rest are awful.
 
Gouty

Gouty

Bloodborne is shit
FrenchMovieTheme said:
it's worse than trying to relive his glory days. if billy came out and just kind of did greatest hits shows, or did album specific tours (like Pixies, for instance) then i have no problem with that. dude has to earn a paycheck and those could be fun shows.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with this at all.

Touring on past glories is snoozeville. I'm far more interested in new music, even if it doesn't touch his 90's output.

Billy needs to keep writing new material, but don't shy away from the hits when putting together set lists.

He also needs to stop talking, period. Don't talk anymore Billy, just put out new records and scale back your ambitions. Ten tracks, not 44. Release them on itunes and on a CD, you aren't Radiohead, you aren't going to reinvent any distribution models or the concept of the album so stop wasting energy in those areas.

Finally and possibly most importantly he needs to either get Jimmy Chamberlin back or a drummer of equal skill to join the band.
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Gouty said:
I don't agree with this at all.

Touring on past glories is snoozeville. I'm far more interested in new music, even if it doesn't touch his 90's output.

Billy needs to keep writing new material, but don't shy away from the hits when putting together set lists.

He also needs to stop talking, period. Don't talk anymore Billy, just put out new records and scale back your ambitions. Ten tracks, not 44. Release them on itunes and on a CD, you aren't Radiohead, you aren't going to reinvent any distribution models or the concept of the album so stop wasting energy in those areas.

Finally and possibly most importantly he needs to either get Jimmy Chamberlin back or a drummer of equal skill to join the band.
Click to expand...

new music is worthless if most of it is awful. a snoozefest is going to a pumpkins 20th anniversary show and getting like half of the songs on the setlist being new songs or shitty covers (set the controls for the heart of the sun.... uhhh, yeah great choice for a live show bro)
 
G

Grimmy

Banned
Billy should have just started a new band. Zwan II or Geeze or whatever, instead of taking and sullying the SP name. To me SP still ended in 2000.
 
Gouty

Gouty

Bloodborne is shit
FrenchMovieTheme said:
new music is worthless if most of it is awful. a snoozefest is going to a pumpkins 20th anniversary show and getting like half of the songs on the setlist being new songs or shitty covers (set the controls for the heart of the sun.... uhhh, yeah great choice for a live show bro)
Click to expand...

DUDE! DUDE CAN YOU HEAR THIS! LISTEN! HANG ON I'LL HOLD MY PHONE UP HIGHER HES PLAYING DISARM!


CAN YOU HEAR IT?!
 
F

FrenchMovieTheme

Member
Gouty said:
DUDE! DUDE CAN YOU HEAR THIS! LISTEN! HANG ON I'LL HOLD MY PHONE UP HIGHER HES PLAYING DISARM!


CAN YOU HEAR IT?!
Click to expand...

lol

the funniest thing i've ever seen at an SP show is during the machina tour i had pit tickets and motherfuckers were moshing TO BLANK PAGE! come on man give me a 5 minute break from the pushing and ass grabbing!
 
M

Macam

Banned
I've loved the Pumpkins since the SD days when I was introduced to them, but without being as intricate of a diehard as some around here...but you know, as someone who's seen BC & co. perform live from Machina to his solo work to Zwan and to Zeitgeist -- the music is still good stuff (although, I have to say, the Kaleidyscope/Teardrops stuff is scraping the bottom of the creative barrel to me so far).

Much as I try not to, I always have a little mental pushback on some of the new material and get a little quick to judge, but it almost always grows on me and find its own little musical place. Adore is a prime example of that, as I remember being a little cold to it, but now it's probably one of my favorite albums, albeit that it always begs me to put on a pair of headphones and listen to it in full, end-to-end.

That said, BC definitely needs to stop talking about plans and start just performing and putting out material. He spends far too much devising grandiose crap that will never happen (44 songs! An album within an album! A record club full of goodies!) and far less on actually committing to them and executing them. For the first time in a long time, I've just passed on the most recent tour; there's just too much creative wandering in the woods and member churn. I can barely keep up with which new bassist is filling in for whichever one came before.
 
S

Seraphinianus

Banned
Grimmy said:
I just bought the Siamese Dream remastered version. Pure gold. It sounds as fresh as it did when I bought it in '94 *tear*. And the second disc is really an ear-opener, even for this ex-SP fan.
Click to expand...


had fun revisiting it earlier this year...it was fun for a bit, but yeah, still ex-fan. The lyrics are notably cheesier than I remember.
 
A

ATF487

Member
ChiTownBuffalo said:
what if Billy Corgan losy his car keys?
Click to expand...

Great impression.

I bought the Siamese Dream reissue and would buy the Gish one if I had the money, but it's such a cool collection. I love the fake little LP sleeves. I wonder what they're going to do with MCIS, since the cool B-Sides were already on The Aeroplane Flies High.

I sort of wish Corgan never brought back the Pumpkins, though. I liked Zwan for what it was, and while Zeitgeist could have been worse, it's just the definition of diminishing returns. I've heard decent things about Oceania but I'm obviously not holding my breath
 
E

exhume

Member
Yesss Smashing Pumpkins thread. They were my favourite band for about 6 years and I still have a huge soft spot for them. Those remastered discs look really sweet, I'll have to see if they're selling them anywhere around here...

I saw the band play in 2008 and they only played 4 new songs. Everything else was awesome old hits (Mayonaise and Porcelina! 1979!) but I've heard they sorta stopped doing that since then.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
The Zeitgeist stuff was mostly a total disappointment, don't really have an opinion on the Teargarden material, but I've been really liking the Oceania songs that have been performed live so far

I've recently fallen back into listening to Adore a lot and have been getting into the 98 live material, which I never really did before, and man, that stuff was beautiful. The 9 minute+ renditions of Blank Page are just incredible

I don't really have an issue with BC still using the name though. The break between 2000 and 2007 clearly divides both eras.
 
O

Oreoleo

Member
exhume said:
I saw the band play in 2008 and they only played 4 new songs. Everything else was awesome old hits (Mayonaise and Porcelina! 1979!) but I've heard they sorta stopped doing that since then.
Click to expand...

Not really actually. I feel like the whole "Oh they play too much new stuff now" thing is really overblown. When I saw them in 2007 they played a lot of deep cuts like Hummer, Set the Ray to Jerry, Muzzle and Lucky 13. 2008 anniversary tour as you mentioned they brought back Mayonaise and Soma, Speed Kills, Eye, Transformer etc and for the most recent tour they've been playing a lot of Gish, SD, and Pisces stuff in promotion of the remasters. Geek USA for the first time since 1999, Plume, Frail and Bedazzled, Obscured and Window Paine off the top of my head as well. The fans just want something to complain about, even if it's largely unfounded.
 
G

Grimmy

Banned
Dead said:
I've recently fallen back into listening to Adore a lot and have been getting into the 98 live material, which I never really did before, and man, that stuff was beautiful. The 9 minute+ renditions of Blank Page are just incredible
Click to expand...

The live stuff from Adore was truly godly. In fact, I've always wondered how the album would be received if they had these versions of the songs instead:

1. To Sheila: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv1Z4p8Tdlk (ok I cheated here)
2. Ava Adore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPO5-MOFZ8E
3. Perfect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G0bYIaJuHg
4. Daphne Descends: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTLrpnfDlzM
5. Once Upon a Time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_keGVyKyOk
6. Tear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ds-fPZUdb0
7. Crestfallen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMUhTOwZIxs
 
E

exhume

Member
Orellio said:
Not really actually. I feel like the whole "Oh they play too much new stuff now" thing is really overblown. When I saw them in 2007 they played a lot of deep cuts like Hummer, Set the Ray to Jerry, Muzzle and Lucky 13. 2008 anniversary tour as you mentioned they brought back Mayonaise and Soma, Speed Kills, Eye, Transformer etc and for the most recent tour they've been playing a lot of Gish, SD, and Pisces stuff in promotion of the remasters. Geek USA for the first time since 1999, Plume, Frail and Bedazzled, Obscured and Window Paine off the top of my head as well. The fans just want something to complain about, even if it's largely unfounded.
Click to expand...

That's pretty awesome. Last time they played here (Australia) was 2010 I think, and the reports I heard were pretty negative. I'll have to catch them next time, here's hoping it won't be a long wait...I'd kill to hear Starla live, do they ever play that?
 
O

Oreoleo

Member
exhume said:
That's pretty awesome. Last time they played here (Australia) was 2010 I think, and the reports I heard were pretty negative. I'll have to catch them next time, here's hoping it won't be a long wait...I'd kill to hear Starla live, do they ever play that?
Click to expand...

Yeah it looks like it was a pretty regular entry in setlists this year (er, last year. 2011). They've played it as much since the reunion as they did before they broke up in 2000, which I find pretty surprising.

http://www.spfc.org/tours/song.html?song_id=166
 
E

exhume

Member
Orellio said:
Yeah it looks like it was a pretty regular entry in setlists this year (er, last year. 2011). They've played it as much since the reunion as they did before they broke up in 2000, which I find pretty surprising.

http://www.spfc.org/tours/song.html?song_id=166
Click to expand...

Oh, that page is a nice resource. And ah yes, now I remember why I didn't see them in 2010, they played Festival Hall...the worst venue I've been to in my entire life, haha.
 
O

Oreoleo

Member
exhume said:
Oh, that page is a nice resource.
Click to expand...

Hah, tell me about it. I'm surprised you'd never heard of SPFC before. Though I guess if you aren't really into SP (or haven't been for a while) it isn't quite so shocking.. but yeah pretty much anything you could possibly want to know about the Pumpkins can be found on there somewhere.
 
E

exhume

Member
Orellio said:
Hah, tell me about it. I'm surprised you'd never heard of SPFC before. Though I guess if you aren't really into SP (or haven't been for a while) it isn't quite so shocking.. but yeah pretty much anything you could possibly want to know about the Pumpkins can be found on there somewhere.
Click to expand...

Haha, I think I used to read it religiously back in the 90s. I did sort of lose interest in the band after Machina though and only just started rediscovering them a year or two ago. Looking at that page is giving me massive envy over all the shows I could have gone to and didn't!
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
After not really giving a fuck about what Corgan's been doing the past 5 years (outta sight, outta mind), Ive given enough listens to the new Oceania stuff played live that I can legitimately say I really like most of the material. Quasar is pretty awesome. I'm really surprised, it's easily the best stuff that baldy has done under the SP name since Machina (of which I am a pretty huge fan, mastering problems aside)

If the rest of the album is similar in quality to this stuff, then as usual, the production, mix and mastering will be what makes or breaks the album.

Hopefully the non botched re-mastering job done on Gish and SD is a good sign for the new album.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
The worst thing about Zwan is that it ended so badly we'll never get proper versions of songs like The Empty Sea, Chrysanthemum and My Dream. I like the new stuff well enough, but some of those Zwan songs were as good as anything the Pumpkins did in the 90s.
 
D

Diablos

Member
The reissues are great. Gish in particular sounds so much better. It's quite obvious that the people who remastered them had a very specific set of guidelines, which is nice considering most reissues these days just get an EQ boost. The samples don't clip, and while made louder, retain the same dynamics, which is vital to the DNA of their first two albums. I couldn't be happier with how they turned out.

Looking forward to the rest of the releases. Billy recently mentioned that Glynis is going to be totally reworked, which is a good thing since the mix is weird. Pisces Iscariot reissue should be out by summer, iirc. I love the Siamese Dream DVD. Holy shit what a great concert that is. It's a legendary bootleg that I've had in radio format for quite some time, but it's nice to have it as a DVD/Linear PCM and not with tracks cut out like the bootleg. And, of course, the bonus CD's that come with Gish/SD are excellent. Siamese Dream (the song) really rocks. Has a certain attitude about it. It's in the vein of Geek USA. Considering the title it's surprising it did not make it onto the album. There is a crappy alternate demo version of the song that has been floating around for over 10 years now, but it's nothing like the Soundworks demo that I don't think anyone has been able to hear prior to the reissue.

I am not optimistic for the band's future. They need to, at the very least, get rid of Mike Bryne. He's a terrible drummer. Matt Walker of Filter did a good job. He was no Chamberlin, but he held his own.

Here's a great live version of By Starlight that I'm glad was able to make its way onto youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPy1gsc6oPc
Matt Walker on drums... again, no Chamberlin, but it works.

A really great live song. The outro is vintage Pumpkins.
 
P

PotatoeMasher

Member
The video where he does Daydream was a bit sad. I realize D'arcy's off with her horses and cocaine or something, but it sucks that the rest of the band isn't involved at all at this point.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
A couple of live clips that recently caught my attention

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3fVYDWnj74 < Alternate Rocket, live from first Mellon Collie tour. Quality is eh, but the camera is upclose and its just an awesome, emotional performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQT1G3pistc < Hummer live performance from 1994. Its just another great performance of an amazing song, but theres a bit in it that really made me single this one out. Billy kind of starts to space out around 4:50, and then has this expression on his face as hes playing...really stood out to me. Almost kinda sad.

DanDeschain said:
Out of all the prospective remasters, I think I am most excited for the Machina II remaster.
Click to expand...
Im curious as to how the album will be released.

Box set with the remastered versions of MI and MII, and then seperate discs for the Double Album re-arrangement, + bonus discs...could end up being like a 6-7 disc box set...which seems really unlikely...
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
Billy Corgan &#8207; @Billy

it's official, 'OCEANIA' on June 19th



I assume thats the album version of all the songs they released online over the past couple years?
 
O

Oreoleo

Member
BigJonsson said:
Billy Corgan &#8207; @Billy

it's official, 'OCEANIA' on June 19th



I assume thats the album version of all the songs they released online over the past couple years?
Click to expand...

All the songs that have been put online over the past few years (post- Superchrist/GLOW/FOL) have been collected into these EP's:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00381YJQO/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0041KOVUU/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Songs from Oceania have been played live and of course you could find them on Youtube if you desire, but to my knowledge no one has heard studio versions of the Oceania tracks yet.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
The album is apparently being mixed by David Bottrill

Bottril has worked with King Crimson, Tool, Peter Gabriel, Muse (on Origin of Symmetry)

BigJonsson said:
I assume thats the album version of all the songs they released online over the past couple years?
Click to expand...
No its an all new album, designed as such. Billy seems to have completely abandoned the entire Teargarden concept, which is good.
 
D

Diablos

Member
I know this makes me sound like the snobbiest of fans, but I can't take the Pumpkins seriously anymore with such a shitty drummer.
Great producer for the album, but Billy does most of the work anyway so I doubt it matters.
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/features/32345/Smashing-Pumpkins-Ill-have-the-last-laugh

Machina II is a brilliant album, have you ever thought about releasing it properly, maybe when you re-issue the others?

Yes. Our sell-out move, for Machina, is we’re going to remix the whole record and put it in its official sequence the way I’d hoped for in the beginning. I wrote it as a rock opera double album type of thing, so we’re going to remix the whole thing. I’ve already talked to Flood, and he’s been indicating he wants to be involved with that part of the process, and then we’ll finally finish the album, the way it was meant to be.
Click to expand...
Confirmation of entirely brand new mix for all of Machina, and perhaps involvement from FLOOD as well...
 
D

Dead

well not really...yet
N13Sj.jpg


"Quasar"
"Panopticon"
"The Celestials"
"Violet Rays"
"My Love Is Winter"
"One Diamond, One Heart"
"Pinwheels"
"Oceania"
"Pale Horse"
"The Chimera"
"Glissandra"
"Inkless"
"Wildflower"
Click to expand...

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...veal-oceania-cover-and-track-listing-20120427
 
O

Oreoleo

Member
Dead said:
http://www.fasterlouder.com.au/features/32345/Smashing-Pumpkins-Ill-have-the-last-laugh


Confirmation of entirely brand new mix for all of Machina, and perhaps involvement from FLOOD as well...
Click to expand...

Dead said:
N13Sj.jpg




http://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...veal-oceania-cover-and-track-listing-20120427
Click to expand...

Thanks for the updates Dead. Flood being involved with Machina is good news. That mixing job must have been eating at his soul for the last decade. Oceania cover is cool too, still on for June right?
 
D

Diablos

Member
Machina suffers from awful production values, but I honestly like Machina II the way it is. It was kind of left as-is before it got overproduced, and the vinyl sound contributes a certain kind of warmth to the overall feel of the album. It's great. That said, the re-issue should be fun.

Not even cautiously optimistic for Oceania, but of course I'll give it a listen. I had a dream that the reason why it took longer to release was that the Mike Bryne had a falling out with the band and Jimmy came back to record all the drum tracks. :D

The Gish and Siamese re-issues are so awesome. I'm really impressed how flawless the remasters are. They should be used as examples as to how bands and artists really need to sit down with their producers/mixers/etc. and make sure they get everything right.

Mellon Collie/TAFH is in desperate need of a better mix (probably more than anything else in their discog besides Machina I), and I'm sure they will deliver.
 
D

Diablos

Member
I view Billy/Jimmy as a requirement for the Pumpkins sound. You certainly don't need Darcy, and while it sucks, you can get away with no James Iha. But you must have Chamberlin on board, or it won't work.

The band without Jimmy worked for Adore because of the way the songs were written/produced, not to mention the quality of the drummers that the band toured with at the time... but stuff that is more traditional SP is pretty much a lost cause without Jimmy Chamberlin, I'm sorry. He's one of the best drummers of his generation... he cannot be replaced, and his talents and contributions to the band are a part of it, not just something that anyone can replicate -- especially some kid who has no unique drumming style whatsoever.
 
N

NGAMER9

Member
Nobody watching the live stream of the Rock in Rio concert? As bad as the new material has been, Billy still knows how to put on a show. He blew me away during the Starla solo.

And I hate to say it, but the new kid on drums isn't doing too terribly. He's no Chamberlin for sure, but I wouldn't say he's bad by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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