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Official Smashing Pumpkins thread
- Thread starter Diablos
- Start date
TheBaldEmperor
Member
Yeah. XYU from Rio was as awesome as ever. I have no complaints about the band or the few songs we've heard from Oceania so far.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
fly high ~ayunite~
Member
So how about dem reissues?
PI is coming next month as a stop gap between the Gish/Siamese Dream reissues and the Aeroplane/Mellon Collie reissues at the end of the year.
CAN'T WAIT! The Adore reissue is going to be amazing, I love the unreleased stuff from that time.
PI is coming next month as a stop gap between the Gish/Siamese Dream reissues and the Aeroplane/Mellon Collie reissues at the end of the year.
CAN'T WAIT! The Adore reissue is going to be amazing, I love the unreleased stuff from that time.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
take my money now billy!
PotatoeMasher
Member
The reissues are the best thing to happen in Pumpkinland in a very long while. As much as I love Siamese Dream, the Mellon Collie through Adore years should be loaded with amazing stuff.
Oceania is streaming on Itunes now. You can hear the entire album:
http://www.itunes.com/SmashingPumpkins
Quasar is pretty kick ass. Billy's vocal mix is a huge improvement over Zeitgeist. But this is only the first song...
http://www.itunes.com/SmashingPumpkins
Quasar is pretty kick ass. Billy's vocal mix is a huge improvement over Zeitgeist. But this is only the first song...
TheBaldEmperor
Member
Finished my first listen through. Pleasantly surprised at how good this is. Exceeded my expectations.
Finished listening to the entire album.
This is going to sound like faint praise, but so be it, but after one listen I wanna say this is the best album Billy has released since Machina 2. That includes Zwan, Solo, Zeitgeist, etc.
It would be too easy to go ahead and lament "oh the album would have been even better with Chamberlin behind the drums" ...at the end of the day that didnt happen. It is what it is. Wont argue that I didnt think that, but I think as a whole the album works.
Although the vocal mix is better than Zeitgeist I just have to accept that Billy will never again sound like he did in old SP. But other than that I think there are some wonderful songs on here, there are some great RAWK moments too and as an album the entire thing works (except that Oceania fades out way too early, seems like it should have gone on for another minute). Im honestly pleasantly surprised. Theres a lot more energy behind this than anything else SP2 (or 3 at this point if you want) has done and this album feels like it actually fits within a chronology of Smashing Pumpkins albums.
This is going to sound like faint praise, but so be it, but after one listen I wanna say this is the best album Billy has released since Machina 2. That includes Zwan, Solo, Zeitgeist, etc.
It would be too easy to go ahead and lament "oh the album would have been even better with Chamberlin behind the drums" ...at the end of the day that didnt happen. It is what it is. Wont argue that I didnt think that, but I think as a whole the album works.
Although the vocal mix is better than Zeitgeist I just have to accept that Billy will never again sound like he did in old SP. But other than that I think there are some wonderful songs on here, there are some great RAWK moments too and as an album the entire thing works (except that Oceania fades out way too early, seems like it should have gone on for another minute). Im honestly pleasantly surprised. Theres a lot more energy behind this than anything else SP2 (or 3 at this point if you want) has done and this album feels like it actually fits within a chronology of Smashing Pumpkins albums.
BigJonsson
Member
Listening now
The first minute is pretty great but Corgan's voice ain't what it used to be
The stream keeps stopping =/
The first minute is pretty great but Corgan's voice ain't what it used to be
The stream keeps stopping =/
I don't have iTunes and I don't care.
But I'm still very excited for the re-issues. The info posted above is quite exciting.
Also it's not about lamenting the fact that Jimmy's absent. It's about how vital he is to the band's sound. It's just dumb to put out anything without him in the band unless it sounds like Adore. If the songs are indeed the best Billy has done since Machina 2, then it's a shame they're tainted by a robotic drummer.
Listening to the samples alone I can tell the drums are mixed in such a way that masks an inability to play anything unique.
Anyway, DAT REISSUE PROJECT. Unf. I'm glad Billy is still wise enough to realize the importance of this. He always said he'd get around to really getting this stuff out there. I am still glad to be a Pumpkins fan for this very reason. I can't think of any other artists over the past couple decades that have been willing to put so much quality stuff out there for their fans, often times for free or very little. Pearl Jam has a lot of bootlegs but that's really not all that unique.
The MCIS/TAFH remasters should hopefully prove to be a vast improvement over the 1995 mix. So many little things wrong. I.e. the weird artifacting in the background during the piano intro to Thru the Eyes of Ruby.
But I'm still very excited for the re-issues. The info posted above is quite exciting.
Also it's not about lamenting the fact that Jimmy's absent. It's about how vital he is to the band's sound. It's just dumb to put out anything without him in the band unless it sounds like Adore. If the songs are indeed the best Billy has done since Machina 2, then it's a shame they're tainted by a robotic drummer.
Listening to the samples alone I can tell the drums are mixed in such a way that masks an inability to play anything unique.
Anyway, DAT REISSUE PROJECT. Unf. I'm glad Billy is still wise enough to realize the importance of this. He always said he'd get around to really getting this stuff out there. I am still glad to be a Pumpkins fan for this very reason. I can't think of any other artists over the past couple decades that have been willing to put so much quality stuff out there for their fans, often times for free or very little. Pearl Jam has a lot of bootlegs but that's really not all that unique.
The MCIS/TAFH remasters should hopefully prove to be a vast improvement over the 1995 mix. So many little things wrong. I.e. the weird artifacting in the background during the piano intro to Thru the Eyes of Ruby.
distantmantra
Member
The re-issues do sound sweet. I'll take a listen to Oceania, but I'm not expecting much.
Infinitemadness
Member
Pretty good, he nailed the desire of wanting to listen to an album from start to finish. But how often am I going to/will have time to do that?
Nothing on here is radio friendly, again...mission accomplished, Billy. Still a weird approach and proves how stubborn he is with the industry clearly going in the opposite direction. I know hes against that, but jesus...he sounds like an old man not down with modern times. Just adapt.
Nothing on here is radio friendly, again...mission accomplished, Billy. Still a weird approach and proves how stubborn he is with the industry clearly going in the opposite direction. I know hes against that, but jesus...he sounds like an old man not down with modern times. Just adapt.
distantmantra
Member
Sounds? He is.
Mango Positive
Member
I would say listening to the radio is a bit "not down with modern times".
I like it so far. Better than ZG anyway. I stopped listening to them for the most part when Adore came out. I now love that album, but I've never been able to get into any of that Machina stuff.
Gouty
Bloodborne is shit
His bitching isn't even coherent. Pompous something.....Placing a greater value on certain guitarists is bullshit but I'll go ahead and state one of my heroes is better than some other guitarist...waaaaaaaa?
Translation = I'm pissed that my work is no longer held in great esteem, unlike Radiohead.
Translation = I'm pissed that my work is no longer held in great esteem, unlike Radiohead.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
Radioheads last album fucking sucked but billy is just mad. He has the talent to still be relevant but he's not
Infinitemadness
Member
I don't mean me when I'm saying making something radio friendly. I don't listen to the radio but when someone has an ego that big and wants to be loved by all, play the fucking rules.
I agree with the Machina era stuff...I look back on it and cringe, but its never as bad as my mind makes it out to be when I do give Machina a listen. Machina II seems like a collection of B-sides, why its praised is beyond me.
I think at this point I'm gonna say Zeitgeist is a better album than Oceania...I think I subconsciously miss the hard hitting drums even though I don't think the new kid isn't bad.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
Machina has some gems (siyl, I of the mourning) but time has not been kind to it
distantmantra
Member
Corgan has been milking a dead horse for years now. Dude should just give up.
But he won't.
But he won't.
Well Radiohead's latest album is garbage too, except for Lotus Flower.
Still, he's an idiot for saying that. Does he not realize how many SP fans love Radiohead and vice-versa?
He really needs to hang it up.
Still haven't listened to Oceania.
distantmantra: You're alive!
Deified Data
Banned
Or. Or. Just keep making the music you want, how you want. Those who get it will get it. Those who don't, who cares?
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
I get that to a degree but it's like if Tool started making Christian music. If I listen to tool i want to hear tool, not whatever Maynard feels like making right now. If billy wants to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks then form a new band instead of dragging the pumpkins through the mud.
Deified Data
Banned
I understand that different fans have different preferences. If I had my way, SP never would have left the limbo space between Adore and Machina. But I have absolutely no expectation for Billy to cater to my particular whims. I want Billy to be happy with the music he makes - that's the SP I want to hear. If he wants to play a whole set without BWBW, god bless him, do it.
Billy Corgan doesn't care about being relevent anymore - that's just an expectation being projected on him by his fans. He's getting older and I don't think he has any expectations of being played on the radio again. If this is the music that makes him happy, this is the direction I want to see SP going, whether it's my "favorite" Pumpkins or not.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
He absolutely wants to be relevant again but he wants to do it on his terms. He is so against writing songs that sound like the pumpkins that he is actually working against himself. I have enjoyed some of his recent songs but zombie pumpkins are not the same smashing pumpkins I loved. That's just the facts
I have to say I'm really liking this new album.
I'm still not into MLIW, but that's not to say its a bad song, just one that will likely never grab me. And sure this doesn't sound exactly like the old pumpkins, but I think when you don't listen to it from that perspective, it brings other things to the SP table.
For me this is definitely better than Zeitgeist and Machina, and possibly Adore (but I need to give it a few more listens).
I'm still not into MLIW, but that's not to say its a bad song, just one that will likely never grab me. And sure this doesn't sound exactly like the old pumpkins, but I think when you don't listen to it from that perspective, it brings other things to the SP table.
For me this is definitely better than Zeitgeist and Machina, and possibly Adore (but I need to give it a few more listens).
Infinitemadness
Member
The lack of reading comprehension from all these news sites about him "pissing on Radiohead" is ridiculous. Shit. His examples may have been poor, but I get his point.
I've probably given a listen to Oceania at least 8 times now, start to finish. It's pretty good. It definitely doesn't suck or stack up to previous Sp because, it isn't previous Sp. It's just kinda there on its own for me. It starts off really strong though.
I've probably given a listen to Oceania at least 8 times now, start to finish. It's pretty good. It definitely doesn't suck or stack up to previous Sp because, it isn't previous Sp. It's just kinda there on its own for me. It starts off really strong though.
Fare Godmace
Member
Hey guys, is the iTunes stream only available for US users? I can't find it anywhere 
I can't believe I'm somwehat pumped for a new Billy album. I'm still cautious, but I liked Quasar when I heard it during the Rock in Rio show.
I can't believe I'm somwehat pumped for a new Billy album. I'm still cautious, but I liked Quasar when I heard it during the Rock in Rio show.
Hey guys, is the iTunes stream only available for US users? I can't find it anywhere
You've got a PM.
After 2 listens, I think Pinwheels is my favorite on the album. Fade out on Oceania is still completely baffling. As a whole I think the album is just a hair weaker than Machina 1, and about on par with TFE.
And finally, FINALLY, a Pumpkins album with good backing vocals. Nicole is all over this album, good for her.
What do you mean BC is an old man not down with the times?
You can just hear the raaaaage with lyrics like:
RAWR.
BigJonsson
Member
I heard Celestials on the radio last night, I was so shocked I had to pull out my phone to Shazam it to verify my shock
I listened to parts of this album and I am really sad to say that this is the worst first impression I've ever had of anything SP/Billy have done. Ever. Probably the only time I've felt completely meh about it.
The mix sounds like shit, the lyrics are shit, the drums sound like shit, his vocal style has evolved into something totally not genuine and more than ever lives up to why people never liked his voice; I could go on and on. A couple songs might end up swaying me in the other direction but overall this is a dud. Even Zeitgeist and Mary Star of the Sea (and yes, TFE) were better.
It's time for Billy to hang it up.
It's really funny how he goes on a rant about "iTunes cuddly" music and the far too corporate nature of mainstream music these days, then makes music that's closer to that than anything else he's ever done. I don't know if he's totally stupid or not; I think he's counting on (part of) his fanbase to just blindly follow him into the abyss so he can attempt to grasp at straws and remain viable (or try to).
I'm excited for the reissues, and will buy every single one of them. But that's about the extent of my appreciation for SP today. And it is amazing that Billy has so much quality material that he can continue to do stuff like that; it's quite nice to have that after being a fan for so long. But I wish he'd just realize he just has to move on.
I'll still defend what I thought made the band so great forever, and that stuff will ALWAYS be great to me, but this shit? No way.
The mix sounds like shit, the lyrics are shit, the drums sound like shit, his vocal style has evolved into something totally not genuine and more than ever lives up to why people never liked his voice; I could go on and on. A couple songs might end up swaying me in the other direction but overall this is a dud. Even Zeitgeist and Mary Star of the Sea (and yes, TFE) were better.
It's time for Billy to hang it up.
It's really funny how he goes on a rant about "iTunes cuddly" music and the far too corporate nature of mainstream music these days, then makes music that's closer to that than anything else he's ever done. I don't know if he's totally stupid or not; I think he's counting on (part of) his fanbase to just blindly follow him into the abyss so he can attempt to grasp at straws and remain viable (or try to).
I'm excited for the reissues, and will buy every single one of them. But that's about the extent of my appreciation for SP today. And it is amazing that Billy has so much quality material that he can continue to do stuff like that; it's quite nice to have that after being a fan for so long. But I wish he'd just realize he just has to move on.
I'll still defend what I thought made the band so great forever, and that stuff will ALWAYS be great to me, but this shit? No way.
TheBaldEmperor
Member
Worst impression ever? I have listened to it several times through and I'm pretty happy with it. I have no problem with the new direction they have taken. Teargarden stuff was hit or miss for me but this is great. I've been listeneing to them since the early 90s and I understand it doesn't have the same feel as their older material, but I'm okay with it.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
listened to a few songs so far and its not bad. the stream doesn't list the song names for me but the first song was pretty good. the next few weren't that great but not horrible.
i can't put my finger on it but i don't like the way he sings now. it's not a completely different voice but something about it doesn't sound right :/
i can't put my finger on it but i don't like the way he sings now. it's not a completely different voice but something about it doesn't sound right :/
Deified Data
Banned
He took a lot of voice lessons between Machina and Zeitgeist, hence him sounding a lot "smoother". I miss the old vocals, too.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
listened to most of it and right now i'm not very impressed. i actually like the first song a long (quasar?) but beyond that there really aren't any standouts.
there is quite a bit of cookie cutter bullshit that sounds like it was a b-side off zeitgeist, but there are some decent songs beyond that and SURPRISE! some nice solos here! i just can't get over his voice though
i'll still probably buy it though. there is enough here for me to justify a purchase..... plus i'm really desperate for some new music. the last album i bought was tenacious D (which was like 28 minutes long) but the last REAL album was the mars volta and that was fantastic. maybe this album will grow on me
there is quite a bit of cookie cutter bullshit that sounds like it was a b-side off zeitgeist, but there are some decent songs beyond that and SURPRISE! some nice solos here! i just can't get over his voice though
i'll still probably buy it though. there is enough here for me to justify a purchase..... plus i'm really desperate for some new music. the last album i bought was tenacious D (which was like 28 minutes long) but the last REAL album was the mars volta and that was fantastic. maybe this album will grow on me
Mango Positive
Member
I hate to pull the "I'm a musician and..." card, but the guy has learned how to sing. It's lost the rawness, but that's been replaced with technical ability and control, so I'm forced to support it.
After a couple of days with it, I've decided I really like it. Billy's tastes have changed. So have mine. There's enough that's close to "back in the day" that I can accept it as a Pumpkins album. It's really best if you can leave your expectations at the door. If you'd never heard of the Pumpkins, you'd probably like it.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
why would you want it to be "technically better" when it doesn't sound better? unless you think it does sound better this way and i can't really argue with an opinion if it's your honest opinion. he doesn't scream anymore. i know he's in his 40's now but serious on his "high" notes it just sounds like someone is grabbing his balls. sounds really shitty. can we get some growls or some actual real singing instead of overproduced vocals that he's trying to make perfect?
on 2nd listen there is potential of a decent album here. i usually get albums 5 full listens before making a final judgement though. i actually liked a lot of zeitgeist (doomsday, 7 shades, tarantula, united states, bleeding the orchid, bring the light were all decent.... starz would be good if it was just called "stars" and if he didn't basically ruin the song be adding in "we ah staaaas... we ahhh" awful)
Haha, after my first listen of Oceania I realized there wasn't anything as cringe-inducingly bad as that on the album. Oceania is automatically better.
Starz is a cool song, wtf. It was even better live. I'd agree it suffered from bad production but it's still a good song.
There is not a single moment on Oceania as cool as, say, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCVrE41Dik0&feature=player_detailpage#t=160s
Please ignore the fanmade video.
Or, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61CXXBHrPE8&feature=player_detailpage#t=485s
Or, yes, despite the lame religious lyrics, even this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02p4KuuSvXY&feature=player_detailpage#t=98s
And I'm even gonna say this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro8shNTlzTY&feature=player_detailpage#t=154s
Oceania doesn't have anything this good. Not even close.
Zeitgeist actually had some great songs, but they all fell victim to shitty production values for the most part.
And I'm really not defending the album as it's definitely among the worst, rather trying to demonstrate how far Billy has fallen since even then. Oceania is a huge turd. It was painful to sit through.
There is not a single moment on Oceania as cool as, say, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCVrE41Dik0&feature=player_detailpage#t=160s
Please ignore the fanmade video.
Or, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61CXXBHrPE8&feature=player_detailpage#t=485s
Or, yes, despite the lame religious lyrics, even this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02p4KuuSvXY&feature=player_detailpage#t=98s
And I'm even gonna say this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro8shNTlzTY&feature=player_detailpage#t=154s
Oceania doesn't have anything this good. Not even close.
Zeitgeist actually had some great songs, but they all fell victim to shitty production values for the most part.
And I'm really not defending the album as it's definitely among the worst, rather trying to demonstrate how far Billy has fallen since even then. Oceania is a huge turd. It was painful to sit through.
distantmantra
Member
At this point, I don't think I'll even bother listening to Oceana.
Mango Positive
Member
Yeah, Oceania is good. This coming from someone who gave up on them at Adore. I agree that Zeitgeist had some great moments, but it's definitely not as good as Oceania. Get some good pot and give it another go.