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[FrenchMovieTheme]

i was flipping through the channels the other day and saw some Bush (the band) thing on the encore network. it was some guitar center thing where they interview lead singers or whoever and then the band plays some live songs.

i'm not saying i liked bush the way i liked the pumpkins but i'm not ashamed to admit that sixteen stone was a great album and bush has had some really good songs. after watching this, Bush really reminds me of the current pumpkins: the lead singer and then just a bunch of corpses to fill out the band. Some of the new Bush songs are ok i guess, but it's just not the same. If some of these songs came out around the height of the band you'd say "uh, wtf is this?"

and that's the same way i feel about SP now. it's not that the new album is absolutely god awful, but if i compare the best of the pumpkins to this.... it's very sad. you can rationalize is as macam did and say it's not fair to compare this and things change and i get all that but the bottom line is the real pumpkins created a standard and the current pumpkins are so far below that standard that they really shouldn't be called the smashing pumpkins :/

 

[BigJonsson]

Corgan is on Piers Morgan

 

[ThisWreckage]

I think Zwan was a really, really underrated band.

 

[BigJonsson]

So, when do the Pumpkins get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

If RHCP and GNR got in this year, the Pumpkins better get in there in the next 5 years

 

[Hobbestetrician]

So, when do the Pumpkins get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

If RHCP and GNR got in this year, the Pumpkins better get in there in the next 5 years

25 years after your first release (I believe) is when you are eligible so since Gish came out in 1991, the Pumpkins would be eligible in 2016.

 

[CountAntonius]

I think Zwan was a really, really underrated band.

Yep. Loved the album and different enough from the smashing pumpkins.

 

[tearsofash]

I'm very surprised that people are digging Oceania. But I was also very surprised that people were hating Zeitgeist.

I've been reading reviews saying Oceania is his best work, and my face contorts. I didn't mind Zeitgeist so much, but this doesn't grab me in any way shape or form and is fairly bland. Not that it's not well-made or a unlistenable record, but I wouldn't put it on any top 10 lists ever.

 

[CountAntonius]

Billy on Stern yesterday morning, really fuckin good interview.

http://crestfallen.com/WPC_HS_2012.mp3

via Crestfallen.com

What an incredible interview. Kinda heartbreaking. This band meant so much for me growing up but I guess all those issues made them great.

 

[Fare Godmace]

Anyone else uses Spotify here? I just noticed that they have an entry for Smashing Pumpkins and another one for The Smashing Pumpkins... Their entire discography is in the latter, and they go and put Oceania in the former :lol (Where they've also put MCIS and Pisces Iscariot, although they are in both entries).

Thanks to Oceania, I decided to give a full listen to Machina (I've never bothered too much with the albums after MCIS besides Zeitgeist and some singles), and holy shit... I don't remember which songs I listened to in order to decide that I didn't like it, because I fucking love it right now.

Now I'm really pumped for the 2013 re-release... Don't fuck this up, Billy!

 

[Reese-015]

Yeah, Machina is awesome. I seriously loooove Machina and Zeitgeist (and Zwan was pretty good too), find it crazy that they got so much hate and that Oceania is supposed to be the positive turning point or something.

 

[Reese-015]

Hmmmm... This is really weird... I've been doing my best to give Oceania a chance and I'll admit... It's now actually starting to grow on me... It has none of the grit and noise and rawness I was hoping for and for some reason it's not 'Pumpkins' to me but... Maybe it's good nonetheless.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Hmmmm... This is really weird... I've been doing my best to give Oceania a chance and I'll admit... It's now actually starting to grow on me... It has none of the grit and noise and rawness I was hoping for and for some reason it's not 'Pumpkins' to me but... Maybe it's good nonetheless.

I don't think it's bad either. Just a neutered version of the pumpkins :/

 

[Reese-015]

I don't think it's bad either. Just a neutered version of the pumpkins :/

Well... In a way... But it's funny. I feel like it's the flaws that made the Pumpkins great, I loved the old Pumpkins' pomposity, artsiness and craziness, even if Corgan took that too far every now and then. It makes sense to me now that this album is getting mostly good reception from the critics, but with those flaws gone it also took away the edge.

 

[relaxor]

I think Zwan was a really, really underrated band.

Totally. Mary Star of the Sea is a pretty darn good album all the way through, I enjoy it as much as Machina I. I was really happy to see Zwan live way back when.

Okay mother truckers I'm doing it, pardon my use of extra stuff. I've been in listmania mode lately and this thread reminds me of discussing this great stuff for hours on phoria.

Siamese Dream
Pisces Iscariot
Mellon Collie
Machina II
Adore
Aeroplane Flies High
pre-Gish demos
Gish
ZWAN
Machina I
Judas O
Zeitgeist
Oceania

I can see the last two swapping, I don't care much for Zeitgeist.

 

[BigJonsson]

Oceania is still better then most rock these days /old man rant


I think its amazing that this year we are getting new Pumpkins, Garbage, Offspring, No Doubt

 

[Curufinwe]

I think Zwan was a really, really underrated band.

I would kill for studio versions of songs like Chrysanthemum and The Empty Sea.

This is the acoustic version of Tonight, Tonight Billy played on the Stern show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqXdwBSLqZs&feature=player_embedded

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I think Zwan was a really, really underrated band.

Yep. Also I'm digging Oceania.

 

[Curufinwe]

About to play some of these Oceania songs in Audiosurf.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

I would kill for studio versions of songs like Chrysanthemum and The Empty Sea.

This is the acoustic version of Tonight, Tonight Billy played on the Stern show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqXdwBSLqZs&feature=player_embedded

he's lookin pretty plump

 

[Reese-015]

I... I can't believe I'm starting to like Oceania... I felt it was absolutely terrible a day or two ago.

 

[Infinitemadness]

I... I can't believe I'm starting to like Oceania... I felt it was absolutely terrible a day or two ago.

Although my feelings weren't that strong, I was definitely underwhelmed. Now I can say with confidence I love it. Feels like a grown up version of the band if that makes sense...you know, no longer writing for 15yr olds.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Although my feelings weren't that strong, I was definitely underwhelmed. Now I can say with confidence I love it. Feels like a grown up version of the band if that makes sense...you know, no longer writing for 15yr olds.

Do you love it 101%?

 

[Infinitemadness]

Do you love it 101%?

Till the end. (Have to admit, I laughed)

 

[ATF487]

I think Zwan was a really, really underrated band.

I got into the Pumpkins right after they broke up, so I was hugely anticipating Zwan. MSOTS isn't the greatest album in the world, but that band had so much potential. The early live tracks were fantastic and the Djali Zwan would have been great if they survived.

The Spilled Milk session is worth checking out if anyone hasn't heard it already; one of the few times they really make use of the three guitars

Riverview
Spilled Milk

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

holy smokes i'm starting to actually like the album now. how does something like this happen?

 

[BigJonsson]

holy smokes i'm starting to actually like the album now. how does something like this happen?

Why are you liking it now?

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Why are you liking it now?

3/4ths of the album is very catchy and has some memorable tunes. there are still some embarrassingly bad vocals/lyrics (and i say bad vocals in the sense that it's not what i want to hear from billy, not that its "technically" bad) but at least there are some signs of life. quasar, panopticon, celestials, violet rays, oceana, pale horse, the chimera, glissandra and inkless are all decent to good songs. i'll take those numbers from an SP album these days!

i think my main issue with the lyrics is they seem really uncreative and lazy. most of the songs are about him singing to someone "you don't deserve me but i deserve you" and other crappy lyrics really drag down some of the songs. where is the creative stuff? i'm not asking for ridiculously obscure mars volta style lyrics but shit some of this stuff would be right at home on a nickleback album.

but as i said for the most part i can find enjoyment on the album

 

[Diablos]

I can find enjoyment in picking a scab, but that doesn't make it a hobby of mine

ANYWAY, not sure if this has been posted, but the Pisces Iscariot reissue is apparently going to have 17 unreleased tracks, and a live DVD containing 24 tracks. That's really, really, really, realllllly awesome. Due out next month (7/17).

It was supposed to come out in April, but got pushed back due to production problems. Worth the wait, imo.

The listing indicates that the cassette tape, which was previously described as a “recreation” of the band’s original demo tape, contains 6 tracks, implying that it is The Smashing Pumpkins demo tape, which was one of several early tapes sold by the band at their live shows. Also new from the CDJapan listing, the bonus CD is listed as having 17 unreleased tracks. We already knew that the DVD is to feature the Pumpkins’ November 19, 1988 performance at Roselle Music. However, at that 1988 performance, the band played 9 songs, and CDJapan lists the DVD as containing 24 live tracks. Extra material, perchance?

I'll give Billy a lot of credit here; he's doing a phenomenal job with these reissues.

 

[Deified Data]

Oceania is…a perfect melding of the mysticism of Gish, the inescapable atmosphere of Adore, and the celebratory outlook of Zwan. None of the songs present on the album would make very good singles, and they weren’t meant to. It’s not that the music is inaccessible (because, honestly, this is BC’s most accessible album to date), but each track feels imbued with equal import in the grander scheme of the album.

The Pumpkins have never played as a more cohesive unit on an album before this particular iteration. I miss the old guard, especially Jimmy, but IMO Nicole and Jeff far outshine James and D’arcy in their respective roles – both technically and in their synergy with Billy. Jeff is a perfect complement to Billy's guitars, while Nicole provided the best, moodiest bass on any Pumpkins release yet. No one can replace Jimmy Chamberlin. Mike Byrne carries his weight, make no mistake. I saw the kid live and he destroyed. But the fact that I can’t recall a single memorable drum piece from Oceania is testament to the weight Jimmy carried in the band.

I'm 5 listens in at this point, and I don't know what else to say. Oceania is a quality album. It wasn't what I expected from the Pumpkins, but I feel it's better for that. I don't traditionally rank Pumpkins albums, but I've always had a vague impression that Adore, while not necessarily my favorite, was probably the "best". Oceania is challenging that impression, and it may overtake the seminal Adore after a few more listens.

 

[Dead]

Currently Id rank the albums as

Siamese
Mellon Collie
Adore
Gish
Oceania
Machina II
Machina I
.
.
.
Zeitgeist

I definitely think its excellent. Panopticon puts a huge smile on my face when gets to the end, same with Inkless. And Pinwheels is just beautiful, ranks up there with Billy's best.

In a lot of ways I think the album has the potential to be the "Gish" of the new Pumpkins. A great starting point and a hopefully good indication of where the band can go from here.

 

[jumper]

I can find enjoyment in picking a scab, but that doesn't make it a hobby of mine

Um, so because he doesn't agree with you, he's in denial?

I've only listened to it several times myself. Maybe it'll take a few more listens before I realize I actually hate it?

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

when i stopped comparing this album to the greats is when i appreciated it. the disk is pretty good top to bottom. wildflower is really the only song i just don't like. there is a lot of musical variety here. some great riffs, some 80's cure style stuff and probably the "bands" strongest record since adore.

i think zeitgeists best are better than oceanas but zeitgeist had some real stinkers (thats the way my love is, for god and country, pomp and circumstance).

give oceana 5 listens from beginning to end and i guarantee you will at least find it adequate. i miss jimmys drumming a lot but everything else has improved since zeitgeist

 

[Deified Data]

when i stopped comparing this album to the greats is when i appreciated it. the disk is pretty good top to bottom. wildflower is really the only song i just don't like. there is a lot of musical variety here. some great riffs, some 80's cure style stuff and probably the "bands" strongest record since adore.

i think zeitgeists best are better than oceanas but zeitgeist had some real stinkers (thats the way my love is, for god and country, pomp and circumstance).

give oceana 5 listens from beginning to end and i guarantee you will at least find it adequate. i miss jimmys drumming a lot but everything else has improved since zeitgeist

I find Wildflower to be vaguely Enya-esque...just like Pomp and Circumstance, actually. I don't actively dislike it, but it's not the sort of song I'll actively skip forward to listen to. I'll never skip it, because I think it wraps up the album perfectly.

My favorite tracks seem to be Oceania, Glissandra, and Inkless so far.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

I find Wildflower to be vaguely Enya-esque...just like Pomp and Circumstance, actually. I don't actively dislike it, but it's not the sort of song I'll actively skip forward to listen to. I'll never skip it, because I think it wraps up the album perfectly.

My favorite tracks seem to be Oceania, Glissandra, and Inkless so far.

Oceans is really good. Classic pumpkins.

 

[Deified Data]

Oceans is really good. Classic pumpkins.

The lead in to that song sounds like Pornography-era Cure. Definitely the most brooding segment of the album.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

The lead in to that song sounds like Pornography-era Cure. Definitely the most brooding segment of the album.

definitely. the chimera gives me a frail and bedazzled vibe too. i've listened through the album about 10 times now, and wildflower just isn't catching on for me at all. 12/13 is really good though, especially considering the last SP song i really liked prior to this album was song for a son. i really disliked a lot of the tear garden stuff

 

[maquiladora]

I... I can't believe I'm starting to like Oceania... I felt it was absolutely terrible a day or two ago.

I know that feel.

First time I listened to it, I actually disliked it. No songs stood out to me at all.

But I gave it a second listen. Found myself liking some part of some songs. Third listen, ok there are some good tracks on this. Fourth, this is great...

I now feel like its the best thing Corgan has released in the last 14 years. It just takes time to get into it.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

I know that feel.

First time I listened to it, I actually disliked it. No songs stood out to me at all.

But I gave it a second listen. Found myself liking some part of some songs. Third listen, ok there are some good tracks on this. Fourth, this is great...

I now feel like its the best thing Corgan has released in the last 14 years. It just takes time to get into it.

same thing happened to all of us it seems

 

[Macam]

when i stopped comparing this album to the greats is when i appreciated it. the disk is pretty good top to bottom.

That's what I was trying to tell you guys. It's hard, but just about every single time, you have to let go of the previous body of work to get into the new stuff.

I know that feel.

First time I listened to it, I actually disliked it. No songs stood out to me at all.

But I gave it a second listen. Found myself liking some part of some songs. Third listen, ok there are some good tracks on this. Fourth, this is great...

I now feel like its the best thing Corgan has released in the last 14 years. It just takes time to get into it.

That's more or less what I thought on the first listen as well. It's the Seven Stages of a new SP album. Welcome to the club;-)

I don't share the distaste for Zeitgeist. I quite liked the album, including the energy in a lot of the tracks, and a lot of the work that came alongside it, like the AOL Sessions and so forth. To that end, I just chalk up Oceania in the long list of solid records from BC/SP, however bumpy that ride has been.

As for Chimera, it's the initial wall of fuzzy guitars that evokes the Frail & Bedazzled vibe, but it's very much a Zwan/Zeitgeist fashioned track (Let's Rock!, (Come on) Let's Go!, Bring the Light).

 

[Diablos]

YOU GUYS HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

Best thing Corgan has done in 14 years? Better than Machina 2? We're all entitled to our opinions, but seriously?

I'll give Oceania... credit for at least trying to be more of a... complete album and not something like Zeitgeist that had a lot of neat moments but as an album perhaps fell short in trying to have real focus (overall). I get that praise. It's just the quality of the songs that irk me. They're all so bland. Don't get production values confused with what era the song is reminding you of.

That's what I was trying to tell you guys. It's hard, but just about every single time, you have to let go of the previous body of work to get into the new stuff.

Heh, I never felt compelled to compare and contrast SP work like I am now. Before, every album, despite there being similarities and differences, did not compel me to really look at it under a microscope. It was a testament to Corgan's ability to always write something great. Everything was good enough to stand on its own without being ruined by a constant need to be compared to something else. It was so impressive. Certainly, this is a big part of why I love pretty much everything SP has done since pre-Gish to Machina 2 and even some stuff from the Zeitgeist era. This started going to the wayside with Zeitgeist, I'll admit, and despite some moments of brilliance during that era, the songwriting has now completely fallen off a cliff.

Oceania is…a perfect melding of the mysticism of Gish, the inescapable atmosphere of Adore, and the celebratory outlook of Zwan.

The "celebratory outlook" of Zwan in songs like Chimera is about the only thing I can understand. There's nothing here that reminds me of Gish or Adore.

Also, Inkless sounds like Hummer for Top 40 radio. Half the length, faster tempo, and completely gutted, topped off with bad lyrics. What a piece of crap.

I think someday a lot of you will realize this album wasn't all that spectacular.

Um, so because he doesn't agree with you, he's in denial?

I've only listened to it several times myself. Maybe it'll take a few more listens before I realize I actually hate it?

No, it's just that I think a lot of fans can't come to terms with the fact that Corgan has finally reached that point where he, more often than not, can't write a good song anymore.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Oh, Billy...

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

YOU GUYS HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

Best thing Corgan has done in 14 years? Better than Machina 2? We're all entitled to our opinions, but seriously?

I'll give Oceania... credit for at least trying to be more of a... complete album and not something like Zeitgeist that had a lot of neat moments but as an album perhaps fell short in trying to have real focus (overall). I get that praise. It's just the quality of the songs that irk me. They're all so bland. Don't get production values confused with what era the song is reminding you of.


Heh, I never felt compelled to compare and contrast SP work like I am now. Before, every album, despite there being similarities and differences, did not compel me to really look at it under a microscope. It was a testament to Corgan's ability to always write something great. Everything was good enough to stand on its own without being ruined by a constant need to be compared to something else. It was so impressive. Certainly, this is a big part of why I love pretty much everything SP has done since pre-Gish to Machina 2 and even some stuff from the Zeitgeist era. This started going to the wayside with Zeitgeist, I'll admit, and despite some moments of brilliance during that era, the songwriting has now completely fallen off a cliff.


The "celebratory outlook" of Zwan in songs like Chimera is about the only thing I can understand. There's nothing here that reminds me of Gish or Adore.

Also, Inkless sounds like Hummer for Top 40 radio. Half the length, faster tempo, and completely gutted, topped off with bad lyrics. What a piece of crap.

I think someday a lot of you will realize this album wasn't all that spectacular.



No, it's just that I think a lot of fans can't come to terms with the fact that Corgan has finally reached that point where he, more often than not, can't write a good song anymore.

 

[Red Blaster]

I was listening to Drown today and noticed this thread

Is Billy Corgan still the least self-aware person ever or has he grown up a bit

 

[rkn]

I was listening to Drown today and noticed this thread

Is Billy Corgan still the least self-aware person ever or has he grown up a bit

He's grown down a bit.

 

[Fallout-NL]

This is a discussion forum. Furthermore, arguing taste is a noble endeavor.

 

[Deified Data]

I don't share the distaste for Zeitgeist. I quite liked the album, including the energy in a lot of the tracks, and a lot of the work that came alongside it, like the AOL Sessions and so forth. To that end, I just chalk up Oceania in the long list of solid records from BC/SP, however bumpy that ride has been.

Warm, fuzzy memories of AOL session's Heavy Metal Machine. My god, so good.

This is a discussion forum. Furthermore, arguing taste is a noble endeavor.

Diablos wasn't arguing taste, he was asserting that people who enjoy Oceania are out-and-out wrong, and that we'll come to change our positive opinion with time. There's really no room for debate there.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

Warm, fuzzy memories of AOL session's Heavy Metal Machine. My god, so good.


Diablos wasn't arguing taste, he was asserting that people who enjoy Oceania are out-and-out wrong, and that we'll come to change our positive opinion with time. There's really no room for debate there.

i learned long ago that its pretty pointless to argue about music with people, whether you make valid points or not. it's just too subjective and different music is going to resonate differently with different people.

i will say the pumpkins (well... billy to be honest) really had an uphill climb for me on this record. i went into the record expecting to hate it and to be honest wanting to hate it and wanting to just say "awww fuck it, he has completely lost it and i'm done wasting my time on this motherfucker". so me saying i'm really liking the album a lot is really a complete 180 and if the album was shit i would GLADLY have said it.

i will give any album ive ever heard 5 straight listens from beginning to end before i'm ready to call it like it is and billy roped me in once more! no ulterior motive or rationalization needed because i would have been perfectly content with this album sucking dick and just moving on. but it doesn't

 

[mattiewheels]

Wow, Panopticon is actually a really good song. It's not the great Pumpkins song I've been dying for but it's very close. The rest of the album is a bit downhill from there, but those first two songs, yeah.

(Btw, I'm one of the weirdos who loved Machina, maybe you had to be there...)

 

[Ichabod]

So I finally got around to listening to Oceana last night. As each song came and went, I found myself asking the same question I asked when I first listened to Zeitgeist:

I don't know what happened in the years following Machina, but these days I find myself feeling more and more embarrassed for Billy. I'd be ashamed to put my name on this album if I was the man responsible for Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Zeitgeist was an awesome record...