twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
If I can't get an XBLA port of The Grid, this will do.Rad- said:Holy crap, Monday Night Combat looks really promising.
If I can't get an XBLA port of The Grid, this will do.Rad- said:Holy crap, Monday Night Combat looks really promising.
gafster1 said:Really? It sounds like they're adding some character to the game. We get "Factions" instead of simply colours. We get the updated rule-set, a single-player campaign and more re-play / versatility than the original vanilla Risk.
I say "Thank-you" very much for that.
Risk is a good board game, but I have *no* problem with them adding new layers. I'm sure you'll be able to play the stock 50-year-old risk if you wish.
Rad- said:Holy crap, Monday Night Combat looks really promising.
GodfatherX said:picked up Groove (xbla indie game) for 80 points last night
so amazing, obviously could be better, but the premise is very nice, do yourself a favor and pick this up
Noogy said:Omega5 is a severely underrated little gem, and I wouldn't mind more horizontal shooters like it. As for your question, have you played Ikaruga on XBLA? One of the best shooters ever packaged as an excellent port.
LocoMrPollock said:Yeah, "Factions" with cats for gods sake!
Can't wait to see how the faction of CATS ties in to the single player campaign.
Do you like the old Rare games? I do. Hell, I think they helped save a certain game system back in the day. Perfect Dark was a kick ass game that is now coming back as a remake to the Xbox Live Arcade very soon. But what about other Rare classics? As you'd imagine, Rare is totally game with re-releasing their old games.
Rare boss Mark Betteridge gives us hope in this statement: "There's nothing to announce yet after Perfect Dark, but we've got over 25 years of IP to dip into so there's no shortage of possibilities."
Those Rare people sound really easy-going. Last week they said that they were also up for seeing more of their characters in other games, like how Banjo and Kazooie are both in Sega's All-Stars Racing. It seems like they're game for everything but making a new game. Or at least announcing their new game.
Last year, Zeno Clash was nominated as a finalist for an Independent Games Festival award. This year, its coming to Xbox Live Arcade under the name Zeno Clash: Ultimate Edition.
ACE Teams game is a first person brawler, sort of like Breakdown with an organic feel. Ghat is the lead character and is on the run from his siblings. In this interview, we asked ACE Team how Zeno Clash got started and how they got together with Atlus.
When you sat down to develop Zeno Clash what kind of game did you have in mind?
ACE Team: The very first version of Zeno Clash was called Zenozoik and we built a prototype around the year 2002-2003 on the former Lithtech Jupiter System (the engine used for the game No One Lives Forever 2). That game was too ambitious for us at the time and we eventually abandoned it. But after a couple of years, we gathered as a team and decided to re-design Zenozoik into something focused with a strong core design based on first person melee combat and with a more surreal art style. That is how Zeno Clash was born.
And how did Zeno Clash change from your original design?
Our original game had the problem that it had too many features and none of them were executed with a satisfying level of execution. So when we redesigned the game we took what we felt were the best and most interesting features and transformed that into the core of the game. As a result, first person melee combat became the priority and we concentrated a lot of effort into developing strong fighting mechanics.
image The games style is quite different. What inspired the organic look and was it difficult to get the Source Engine to do what you wanted?
We got inspiration for the organic art style from atypical sources for a videogame. Examples are the paintings of Hieronymus Bosch and John Blanches punk fantasy art of the 1980s.
Creating very organic art using Source was a big challenge for the team. Source is optimized for brush based geometry (boxed shape primitives), so we needed to re-think how we would do environments in the game. We eventually had to upgrade the static mesh class (regular 3d models that can be placed in environments) so that we could use pre-baked lightmaps with them. This allowed us to do completely organic and better lit environments. The way we build environments is completely different from how Valve builds their environments for Half-Life or Left 4 Dead.
Tons of indie developed games are released every year, few of them get published on consoles. How did Zeno Clash get noticed and when do you think you "hit it big time?"
Being nominated as a finalist in the Independent Games Festival (in the category of Visual Arts) was great, but I think the real reason Zeno Clash is getting the attention it is getting is because it is so different.
While many indie games are very unique & creative, there are few that venture into competitive mainstream genres and innovate from there. Most indie games are 2D and more retro-style in design. I think that innovating in such a complicated genre like first person games is a challenge of its own because you not only have to excel in the creative component, but you also have to compete in the production part of game development something that is very hard these days since AAA games have very high budgets.
That is where I think Zeno Clash is unique among indie games: It gets confused and mixed up with mainstream titles.
image How did you hook up with Atlus?
They contacted us. We had already been discussing with Microsoft about a XBLA version and then we had the chance of teaming up with Atlus.
What are the advantages of working with a publisher, like Atlus, opposed to going on your own and distributing Zeno Clash on XBLA on your own?
You cannot distribute games on XBLA without a publisher. But besides that the obvious benefit is having someone who will push and promote your game in the market in a way that you as an independent game studio cannot. Even though the game is due for March, we are already working on producing marketing material and content with them, and this is great since they know this part of the business much better than we do. Atlus has also been very good at suggesting what features will help improve the game.
Did any feedback from the PC game lead to changes/tweaks for Zeno Clash: Ultimate Edition?
Definitely! The inclusion of co-op and other features like adding more attacks were things that fans requested many, many times.
What are some of the challenges you encountered when bringing Zeno Clash to Xbox Live Arcade?
For a number of reasons we had to move from the Orange Box Source engine build to the Left 4 Dead version. It was a bit scary at first since many things broke down and it almost felt like taking a step back, but the switch definitely paid off. The relative ease with which we were capable of integrating cooperative gameplay to the tower challenges was thanks to that decision. There are some tricky parts to working with a console, but fortunately we havent hit any brick walls.
We heard the Xbox 360 version has "Tower Challenges." Can you tell us more about those?
The tower challenges are present in the PC game, but the Xbox 360 version will have co-op for this game mode. Now you will be able to beat up enemies with a buddy via Xbox Live or split screen which is twice as much fun!
image Are there enhancements or features in the Xbox 360 version?
There are many. Weve included several new attacks for the player, new weapons, new enemies and other surprises that we will be revealing soon.
How come Zeno Clash is only for the Xbox 360? Have you thought about a PlayStation 3 version or a Wii game where we can punch things with the nunchuck a la Breakdown?
The Source engine is only ported to the Xbox 360 so there isnt much we could have done about it. Porting the whole engine to another console is something that simply exceeds our possibilities as a smaller independent studio.
After Zeno Clash, whats next? Can you tell us anything about Zeno Clash 2?
A sequel has been planned and other stuff too. Were always thinking of creative new content at ACE. Zeno Clash 2 is an ambitious project and not something we want to rush as a mere expansion pack or something similar. So theres not much I can reveal about it so early. Still, Zeno Clash 2 will not be the only new project we will be working on this next year.
If it weren't for Xbox Live Arcade, PSN and PC, games like Greed Corp would almost certainly be long dead - and that's why we aim our peachiest of blessings at the game download services.
One genre that's enjoyed something of a resurrection through these digital conduits is the strategy board game.
You can understand why 'boardgames on a budget' work. As nerdy as they are - we're talking your Carcassonnes, Risks and Panzer Generals - they are bloody good fun. They're just not £40's worth of fun, you know?
Greed Corp, from the makers of erm, My Horse and Me (don't let that faze you - these guys clearly have more to offer) is the latest genre entry you should look forward to arriving in your favourite digital shop.
It's a bit like Advance Wars meets Chess; up to four players competing across a hexagonal playing field, building bases, pumping out units for battle and harvesting resources.
However, as players plant their minors, the playing field itself - specifically the surrounding hexagons - descends further downwards, before eventually crumbling away entirely. In order to succeed you need to be willing to risk it all - in the hope of being the last man on solid ground.
Gameplay works in turns; you can move your units - called walkers - a number of hexagons per go, or use the money you've amassed to plant harvesters, turrets or unit-builders.
Combat works similarly to the aforementioned Nintendo strategy effort; whoever has the largest number of walkers on the contested tile (units can be massed together, again like AW) will survive the fight.
Games last longer depending on the amount of players (but never more than an hour) and are both strategic and good fun.
HEX APPEAL
Once harvesters are placed on a tile they'll lower all immediate hexagons once per round (with four drops spelling goodbye).
This adds tons of strategy: Not only do you have to ensure that your base buildings and units aren't too close to your harvesters (otherwise they'll eventually crumble away with the land) but critical tiles - those with only one drop left - are chained up and destroyed by any connected crumbling tiles.
So for example, if a line of critical tiles leads from your harvester to an enemy unit or construct, you can use the harvester's self-destruct feature to cause a crumbling combo of death that'll take the entire line of tiles out.
Inevitably this kind of cliff-crashing madness leads to either you or the other player left with one singular, pillar of land and your last unit perched atop it.
From here you can spend your cash on carriers (which can move an infinite number of hexagons per turn) or an artillery cannon to blast their island into dust.
In our short session we found Greed Corp to be a fun and visually appealing strategy game, as the video on this page will no doubt suggest. Online battles are sure to take off and developer W! Games has catered well here.
NEED FOR GREED
Through multiplayer battles, players can unlock titles very much like those in Modern Warfare 2, including 'explorer', 'major' and 'hero'. And if that doesn't keep your attention there's also a meaty single-player game with 24 levels promised - 6 on each faction.
W! has bold plans for the franchise and universe of the board game, with a Pixel Junk-style plan for additional games in different genres.
A top-down shooter and role-playing game are already in production, and from what we've seen it's certainly fleshed out a rich world with civil wars, Miyazaki-style art and an abundance of character. Perhaps - just maybe - it'll make a series horse-riding game as well (ho ho!)
Greed Corps is out early this year on XBLA, PSN and PC for 800 Microsoft Points and the cash equivalent (about £6.80).
Slick Entertainment is a two-man outfit operating in Vancouver, which readers might know as the company that brought popular 2D platform game N to the Xbox 360 alongside Metanet, as N+.
Both of Slick's members used to work for Killzone developer Guerrilla Games in Holland (when it was known as Lost Boys Games), and are currently making a top-down vehicle racer/shooting/demolition game for Xbox Live Arcade. That game is Scrap Metal.
In this interview, conducted after the game had gone to alpha, we discuss the game's network code, damage arbitration, physics system, and even the implementation of 3D using red and blue glasses.
Speaking to Gamasutra, Nick Waanders, the engine coding half of the team, breaks it all down, and shares his thoughts for how to make it as an indie:
Building Scrap Metal
With Scrap Metal, you built your own engine?
Nick Waanders: Yeah, we did. Well, we did development on N+ together with Metanet first, so we had an engine that we could use. We took the base of it, because N+ was 2D and Scrap Metal was 3D, and we had to add our own 3D engine. That's what we worked on. Luckily, Kees, my partner -- my business partner I mean [laughs] -- is the technical artist, so he got a lot of the pipeline setup. I did a lot of the engine programming.
Nice, so it is really just a two-person...
NW: Yeah. The only guy that we also hired is a guy who does music. He's the same guy that did music for Killzone and Killzone 2, so we're really pleased that we can get him. We worked with him at Guerrilla Games, and he was super happy to make our music.
What were the considerations when building or modifying this engine? Are you tailoring it specifically for the platform? Or are you more forward looking with it?
NW: We're trying to not really nail it down to a platform. The way that it's set up is that anything that's platform specific is in only the lower layers. Obviously, when you actually ship on a platform, your code has to be a little bit more specific at certain parts. That's fine. As long as it's contained, then it's fine, right? So, that's what we did. It's C++, so we're not hooked to any system that way.
The rendering engine right now is based on [the 360] tech, but the background can be completely changed and still work. So, if we wanted to port to another system, we could. But right now, because we're only two guys, we have to focus on one system, and that's basically Xbox Live Arcade right now. So, maybe after. If it does well enough and we actually have some money, we might spend it on porting it to other systems.
How has the networking been? You're probably testing it on the test stuff that Microsoft has for XBLA. Some people have found that the test environment and the live environment are not necessarily the same.
NW: Yeah. That was one of the things we also found out with N+. You just don't know what kind of internet connection a person has, right? It's really hard to test for that. They have tools to do tests with it. That's what we're using. We are planning to do some tests with other people that are across the country, in Europe, or whatever, and say, "Hey, download this from Partnernet, and we can do a game and see how it runs." That is going to be one of the struggles because, like I said, we're just two guys. Four-player testing is a little bit hard.
It seems like it necessitates you becoming much more of a code virtuoso because you have to be able to understand networking as well as physics and engine stuff.
NW: Yeah. I remember one time at Relic... I think we either needed a network programmer or the network programmer just left or something like that. So, I got pulled in a room by a lead with another guy -- two other guys, I think -- and he was like, "So, we need somebody to do the network." I was like, "I don't want to do it." And now I have to. You know what? That's kind of also the charm of a small company? You have to do everything, just embrace it, just do it. Actually, I have to say that network programming is fun in a lot of ways, too. It's not just annoying. It's actually fun as well.
We learned a lot from N+. That network system was slightly different. It was more based on online RTS games because that's what I knew from Relic. This one is specifically for racing, so the whole network system is better. It deals a lot better with prediction and that stuff. When you're driving yourself, you don't notice any changes in your car dynamics. It's just the other cars that might be a little bit jumping all over the place, even though we're trying to minimize that, too. It's just a different approach.
You also have physics and real time damage, it looks like. Do you just have specific damage states or is it actually contextual?
NW: The cars are basically built out of I think 12 different parts, and they all have different locations on the car. So, when a car gets damaged, we know which direction it's coming from, so it damages specifically those parts. So, they'll de-color. The shader will make it not as shiny and make it all crumbly looking. And it will deform a little bit. After a certain point, they just fall off. That's when the physics take over.
The reason we did that was actually two-fold. First, it looks good. Second, it's all physics-driven, so we don't have to animate anything. For two people, it really is all about a "where can we cut corners" kind of thing. So, we chose to it that way, and it still looks sweet. It's really two-fold.
Its your own physics engine, right?
NW: Yeah.
Most games that I play, if ever there's going to be some crazy glitchy stuff, it has to do with physics.
NW: Oh yeah. We had all that. [laughs] Like you said, it's our own physics engine, so when that stuff happens, we can look at what's going on and try and fix it. The other thing is there are multiple ways of doing physics. There's impulse-based physics and there's one that more iterative, which relies on the way you iterate over your contact, and that's the way you work it out. That's the one we use, and it's a little bit more robust and clearly calculates what's going to happen purely theoretically. This is way more like, "Okay, this object is here. What's going to happen?"
Especially in multiplayer, if you get multiple machines working together, stuff can go out of sync, so you want to make sure that your physics engine is super robust and stuff doesn't explode. It was the design choice from the start, but I've done many, many physics engines at previous companies, so I kind of knew that the old way didn't really work. I call it the "old way," but it's not really the old way. It's my old way. [laughs] It didn't really work. So, I switched it to this. It's basically based on the library... I don't know if you really know it? Box 2D? It's just a library, just a 2D box falling down, but it's a really good solid engine. It doesn't explode really fast at all, so it's great. That's exactly what we needed.
When you have multiple players colliding and deforming and stuff like that, how are you determining damage arbitration in multiplayer?
NW: That's interesting because that's where it gets really tricky. Basically, the way it works is you have one car. Your own car is purely controlled by you, and all the stuff that happens to your car is decided by you.
On your local machine?
NW: Yeah. So, if I crash into you, I send you a message saying, "I did this much damage to you." I think we send a message like every half-second or three times a second or something like that. "I did this much damage in this direction or location." You get the message, and it goes, "Oh, okay." And it damages yourself. That's when I see it back. So, it's all locally arbitrated. On a PC, I don't know how we would do it because the PC is a little more tricky when it comes to network traffic. On Xbox, it's all encrypted. So, that's a good thing. We can do that and make it all locally authoritative.
Origins of Slick Entertainment
What did you guys do at Guerrilla? I know you were at Guerrilla, but I don't really know the full extent of your background.
NW: It was actually before Guerrilla was Guerilla. It was Lost Boys Games. We worked on a title called Knights. It never actually saw the light of day unfortunately. Kees was the lead artist, and I was the lead programmer. So it was basically the same as we are now, except now we're a two-person shop. Joris de Man was the music guy. There was like three teams. At one point, they had to cut down. Our team got cancelled, another team was cancelled, and Killzone was the one they went through with.
So, have you been indie ever since?
NW: No, actually I went to Relic. Pretty much when our project got cancelled, I went to Relic and I worked on Homeworld, Dawn of War, The Outfit, and a couple more other titles.
Kees went to Bioware actually. He worked on Mass Effect and Knights of the Old Republic. At one point, a friend of mine gave me a call and was like, "Hey, I need somebody that can develop this Xbox Live Arcade game. You want to do that?" I said, "Well, how am I going to do that?" "Start your own company." I was like, "That sounds good." [laughs] So, I quit and started my own company. That's basically how it started. And by chance, Kees moved to Vancouver. Since I've worked with him, I knew him. So I said, "Hey, do you want to come work at Slick Entertainment?" He was like, "Sure, when can I start?" That's basically how it all started.
What is your plan to market your game as an indie?
NW: We went to PAX, and we put out some blog videos with our faces in it, which is interesting to do. It's quite different than what I expected it to be, but it's fun. We were kind of nervous in the beginning. We're trying to get the hang of it. Yeah, so that's what we're trying to do. It's only a two-person studio, so you don't need a lot of sales. I mean, it's great if it does... The thing is, Xbox Live Arcade gets quite a lot of coverage by itself, so we're super happy that we're on there.
Yeah. I've heard mixed reactions from a lot of developers. It's great because it's a really good platform to get stuff out and people really pay attention to it, but also it's got a lot of frustrating points because it winds up being quite a bit like retail because of placement, and not always being 100 percent in control of your pricing and other things.
NW: That's true. I guess it comes with the platform. It's their platform. They can do what they want. They should, right? As an indie sort of studio, it's always a bit of a nervous time. It's like, "Okay, we have this game. We think it's good. But we want to have it on Xbox Live Arcade." You have to try and sell it to them. That's kind of a nerve-wracking thing, right? That's why we were super happy that they actually picked it up. I was like, "Nice!" you know?
Amiga Mio
What were your influences with this game? It calls to mind a lot of games of the past, especially European top-down racers.
NW: I was really into Supercars and Supercars II. I really liked those games. Death Rally on the PC was huge. I really liked that game. What was the other game? Oh, Ironman, of course, on the PC. One screen. VGA. Good old stuff. Those are kind of the games that I grew up with. Kees grew up with a few different ones but also the same. When we started this game, it was like, "Okay, what game do we want to make?" Kees said, "Oh, I wouldn't mind like a top-down racer." I said, "That's exactly what I was thinking." We pretty much decided right there. We didn't even need week one meetings like at big companies nowadays. We just decided.
That's good. That's a good way to know you can work well together if you're like, "Well, I guess we both want to make the same thing."
NW: It doesn't make it hard, yeah. [laughs]
It seems like you've done some work to keep it away from the sort of brown that it was in the earlier days.
NW: Yeah. The first video we put out, a lot of people were saying, "We want more color." Partly, I think it's due to the YouTube-style video because the color kind of disappears. There was, we thought, quite a lot of color in the level, but we did put more in, some more bright colors. The downtown track, especially, has all these neon marks everywhere. It looks a little more flashy.
It strikes me as one of the things that is just kind of how the industry is today. Your game is more realistic looking, and so you're playing on tracks that are more brown and have actual dirt.
NW: Yeah. That's like, "How do you make it not brown?" [laughs]
It's a little difficult to get it out of the brown stereotype when you have rusty cars and ground tracks.
NW: Well, we're definitely working on it a lot. We did add some tracks that are basically asphalt tracks, so if you have a dirt car, it might not perform as well. We still have both sides. Asphalt cars will run great on asphalt tracks, and asphalt tracks will look different and have different styles, like the downtown track with all the neon lights. We have sort of a marina where there are like pools around. We're trying to make it a little bit more varied.
Are you using Microsoft for your quality assurance and all that?
NW: Yeah. They're really good. We had a playtest already, and they helped us out lots. We have two control methods in our game right now. One is directional, and one is like an RC car. We only added our RC Controls when we sent it into playtest, and like 50 percent of the people just couldn't drive. We were like, "Okay, this is good." Now we took it and put in a different control method, and we're going to be playing it through a couple more times, I think. We need all the help we can get, so yeah, they're doing a great job.
Red Versus Blue
You also decided to put some 3D into the game. Why did you decide to do that?
NW: I've always been into the whole virtual reality thing. It never really took off. It's kind of a shame. It's so cool, right? My dad is in Holland still, and I'm over here. So, we're sending each other pictures, and we thought, "We should just have 3D pictures." So, he sent me a bunch of those red and blue looking glasses. At one point when I was programming the game and trying to fix bugs, I was like, "I wonder how hard it would be to actually get the red and blue glasses to work with the game." And it actually wasn't that hard. So, I put it in. I thought, "Oh, this is actually quite good."
So, that's why we decided to just leave it in when we brought it to last year PAX to see what people thought. It seems a lot of people are actually picking up on it. A lot of people hate it -- or not a lot -- but some people are just, "Oh, you've got to take that out. That's horrible." Okay. [laughs] You can turn it off. It's just a fun feature to have. Old school games had it. Magic Carpet had it. I don't know if you remember Magic Carpet. You could pick up those little pearls.
Yeah, wasn't it Bullfrog?
NW: Bullfrog, yeah. I was super into that because of the 3D thing. I thought, "This is so cool." A few other games had it, but since then, I've never really seen it anywhere until last year with the Gamma 3D... The guys, Phil Fish from Fez and stuff, organized it, I think. I thought, "Man, that's right. That was so cool. I wonder if we can put that in Scrap Metal to see how it looks." It looked pretty neat, so I figured, "Yeah, why not keep it in?"
The one thing that strikes me is that it's not necessarily needed for this game.
NW: No, not at all.
It's not very 3D or depth-oriented because you have a relatively flat plane.
NW: On some tracks, it does because we have these big light posts and stuff. They kind of come toward you. We thought that was kind of cool. Basically, it's just a render engine feature that we just enabled for the game. We used it in the editor a few times. You can sort of look at a few things. Sometimes you can't really see what's behind the other things, so switch it to anaglyph mode, put your glasses on, and "Oh, okay."
What exactly did the 3D implementation entail?
NW: Well, basically the way it works is, say you have red and cyan. So, cyan is right between green and blue. It's like the polar opposite of the color spectrum. So, one eye basically only sees red, and one eye only sees... Well, not exactly like that.
Basically, there's a filter that you use on your left and right eye image, and that makes them blend together, and only the left eye will see one part, and only the right eye will see one part. So, basically what we do is we render our game out in split screen from two cameras that are slightly apart, looking at the same subject. So, you get your left eye image and your right eye image, and that's what we blend together over on top of each other with the color matrix multiplication, and that's basically it. That's really all there is to it.
Technically it's Groov, drop the e, dog!GodfatherX said:picked up Groove (xbla indie game) for 80 points last night
so amazing, obviously could be better, but the premise is very nice, do yourself a favor and pick this up
JustAnotherOtaku said:Don't think this has been posted and don't know if it's old news, but just watched a trailer for KoF: Sky Stage and it has a release date of 22nd Jan (this Friday) at the end. Any truth to this?
JustAnotherOtaku said:Don't think this has been posted and don't know if it's old news, but just watched a trailer for KoF: Sky Stage and it has a release date of 22nd Jan (this Friday) at the end. Any truth to this?
Lyte Edge said:That's the arcade version.
.Darkmakaimura said:Still no word on Joy Ride?
Speculation over! A port of After Burner Climax is in this weeks issue of Famitsu officially announcing the game for consoles.
After Burner Climax will be available on PlayStation Network and Xbox Live Arcade as a digital download this spring. Climax Mode, EX Options to tweak settings, and selectable After Burner II music are in the game. The only thing you dont get is the awesome cabinet.
The game will cost 800 Microsoft Points or 900 yen ($10). Now to wait for the North American announcement
UraMallas said:Vandal Hearts refuses to download the last few percentage points. Anybody else having problems with it?
iconoclast said:only 800 points for After Burner?
:bow SEGA
Diablohead said:800??? Best xbla value ever in history of awesome?!
That's not the point, these kind of arcade games are made for replay value, different routes and forks where you select which way to go, high scores to compete and beat against, fuck it's a new afterburner! no other reason neededKafel said:Isn't this game 20 minutes long ?
Yeah, and Outrun 2 is a 7 minute game.Kafel said:Isn't this game 20 minutes long ?
I played the demo and didn't enjoy it very much because I had underpowered guns and tons of enemies constantly running at me. Is the whole game all stressful like that or do you ever get some real guns?Neuromancer said:Picked up the full version of Serious Sam last night. It delivers! What a fun game, they don't make them like this anymore.
Watch a couple Youtube videos of some coop games, and you'll find your answer. It doesn't get any more Serious than Serious Sam.The Lamonster said:I played the demo and didn't enjoy it very much because I had underpowered guns and tons of enemies constantly running at me. Is the whole game all stressful like that or do you ever get some real guns?
That did my head in, didn't think much to the game either. Level one and enemies just kept appearing from nowhere on top of my guy and killing him, with no way to get away because they were just right there.Dr Zhivago said:Tried Death By Cube, some nice ideas but it didn't really feel right somehow. And the analogue stick control on the menus is terrible (the cursor will keep zooming around like they're ignoring the dead zone on the sticks). The blood is a bit weird as well - aren't they all robots?
Awesome, I'll probably get this then. Looks and sounds great too.Dr Zhivago said:Yeah, there's tons of guns. The original PC version had a load of difficulty levels too (including a super-easy one) so assuming the 360 version has them you can have a stress-free time.
Four years ago British bedroom outfit Introversion Software was lauded as one of the most promising independent developers in the world, with three critically acclaimed PC games under its belt in the form of Uplink, Defcon and the excellent Darwinia.
... and then it struck a deal to bring Darwinia to Xbox Live Arcade. Almost four years later, we're still waiting.
As the strategy opus finally approaches release on Microsoft's box, Introversion's charismatic MD, Mark Morris recently visited the CVG office to talk about the game and explain what the hell he's been up to.
It feels like Darwinia+ has been in the making forever. Can you give us a brief rundown of what you've been up to until now?
Morris: Well we were actually talking to Microsoft about bringing Darwinia to Xbox before Xbox Live Arcade was even announced. Our plan was to quickly port the PC version over to Xbox Live Arcade - a quick and dirty port - and it'd be job done in six months, something like that.
Microsoft were umming and ahhing a bit and we went over to the IGF Awards where we picked up a few awards that night. Literally as I was walking off stage Ross Erickson, who was the big man at Microsoft then, bumped into me and said 'alright, we'll take it'. I was too drunk to actually care at the time!
We went away and did the actual technical work and meanwhile Microsoft said 'we need some multiplayer in there; you guys have to put multiplayer in for it to go on Live Arcade'. Darwinia in its first form has actually been a massive multiplayer war game - that was the original concept. So again we thought 'this is going to be pretty simple, we'll just turn the multiplayer back on and in six months we'll be away'.
We just couldn't get it right, it was shit. All we did was put multiplayer games into the Darwinia landscape, tried to throw and objective or two in there and it just didn't work. We just couldn't put it out and the time, we needed to deal with the problem properly.
So we started work on different multiplayer levels, designing proper maps and all the rest of it. Before long we realised that we had quite a lot of content in terms of the multiplayer so we thought what we'll do is launch this game as Multiwinia, we'll launch it as a whole complete sequel to Darwinia on PC and 360 with the original game as DLC.
Microsoft kind of said to us, 'no we don't want you to do that, we wanted Darwinia - that's what you signed up for'. So we kind of said, 'alright, this is your decision, we'll put Multiwinia out on PC with a big PR storm and Darwinia+ will come out on 360 later on'.
It didn't quite work out that way... Multiwinia came out and did quite well but there wasn't as much interest in it as we thought there would be. I also think to a certain extent at Introversion we'd gotten used to people being interested in our games and we thought that was going to carry on. For some reason with Multiwinia it didn't happen and I think it was because it looked like Darwinia, it was a sequel but people didn't really know - we'd announced it as an add-on pack.
So it didn't really work out and World of Goo came out at exactly the same time too, which really hammered Multiwinia hard into second and third slot.
Did you find Microsoft's constant requests for revisions frustrating?
Morris: We were incredibly frustrated. Everything we did they basically said was not good enough. Everything; the menu system within the game we were quite happy with but they said 'this doesn't say HD proposition, this doesn't say Xbox 360, this doesn't say new, novel... this isn't good enough'. We must have gone back with four or five menu iterations - something as simple as that.
We hadn't realised how important the outer game experience was to Microsoft. We sort of thought the only thing that mattered was the game itself but Microsoft had a different view. That wanted all of the "charm and character" of Darwinia, as they described it, like the intro sequence, the boot loaders and all this other stuff we did on PC brought over to the 360 - but updated, HD-ed and 'sex-ified'.
Creatively we were a bit fed up with Darwinia. We've been working on it for a long time and also from a business perspective we were getting fed up because the idea was that this was going to be a six month port and yet now we were on year two.
But at the same time Microsoft always backed up what they said with quite good evidence and facts - they were quite reliable. They did this huge usability report for us and it was like 200 pages of problems people were having when they were playing Darwinia+. You can't ignore that, you can't go 'yeah actually the controls are fine', you have to respond.
It was quite difficult because Darwinia and Multiwinia are quite different games so harmonising the controls between the two was a quite difficult problem. But eventually we got there and I think when we were finished we were very, very proud of the end result, which is why at the back of our manual we wrote, 'this is the best version of Darwinia we have ever made - the director's cut'.
It's only been in the last couple of years that RTS games have broken through on to consoles, so did you get any influence from Command & Conquer and all those games in terms of controls?
Morris: Not really if I'm being completely honest. The controls really came from first principles, experimenting and trying to get it right. It's very difficult, there are always problems. I think with Darwinia there are certain ways that it behaves that we couldn't get away from; if we'd have implemented it differently there would've been a corresponding problem to try and solve.
So we kind of found a healthy medium; there's a crosshair floating around on the screen because in the PC version you can right click to throw a grenade where your cursor is and we wanted to replicate that.
It took a long time because especially in Multiwinia the controls are subtly different. Initially they were very different, so you'd learn things in the Darwinia tutorial that then wouldn't hold true in Multiwinia and that just confused the f*** out of people. People don't tend to struggle anymore, which is good.
s is part two of our chat with Introversion Software boss, Mark Morris. Read part one of our interview for the first half, otherwise you're not going to have a clue what's going on, are you?
So Darwinia+ is obviously and XBLA exclusive. Why no PSN release?
Morris: When you're a small developer you kind of have to go with whatever you're offered. I would prefer a world where we could put our content out of 360 and we could put it out on PSN, because I think that being able to do that is really going to enable small developer to take risks.
Defcon
Is PSN better setup for small developers to get their games on the service?
Morris: I think there are different challenges with Sony. With Microsoft your approval is given at the start, as long as you deliver what you said you'd deliver you're going to launch, where as it's not like that with Sony. Sony's clearance for launch comes quite later and you have to invest quite a lot of time before you get it. That's a problem because it means you have to invest a lot of time and effort and then you're in a much weaker negotiating position because they could turn around and say 'we don't want it'.
To be fair, I'm sure if Microsoft wasn't happy with what you'd delivered they'd say 'you need to fix this'.
How much does Introversion need Darwinia+ to be a success? Are you banking on it financially?
Morris: Our success is inextricably linked with every project that we make. We haven't been able to get away from serial game development yet, which means that all of our money is generated from sales of the previous game and some back catalogue sales that really help out - Valve helps us a lot.
There is a minimum sales figure for Darwinia+, a level that it has to achieve. If it doesn't achieve that then we don't have enough money to continue going - simple as that. We know how much money we're going to make from the back catalogue next year so we have to hit this minimum sales level.
So if fans want to see more they should buy this game?
Morris: Yeah, basically. That's the message. There isn't any other mystic source of income for us, we haven't got reserves.
Would it be fair to say that Introversion is still looking for its big hit then, that game that will take all the pressure off?
Morris: I think that we've spent four years developing a game which is a hell of a long time and expensive. I think it would be disingenuous for me to say we haven't had a hit yet - I think we've had four. We've done well. What happened though is we were so young and inexperienced when we started out that we didn't know how long this project was going to take. We didn't really attack it in the way that we would attack it now.
Subversion
We don't need Darwinia+ to be a massive runaway success. We know the figures that Space Giraffe did and they're not particularly high. As long as we do as well as Space Giraffe we'll be OK, so we're kind of hoping we're going to hit that sort of level. At the same time, I didn't drive here in my Bentley which is kind of the reason we started Introversion! I'd like a game that just goes stellar, of course I would. But in terms of Darwinia, this was the best game we released from a critical perspective and I really hope that the 360 players enjoy it as much as the PC gamers did.
What's next for Introversion?
Morris: We are working on a game called Subversion next. We haven't said much about it, we're kind of in a creative jamming phase. The way that I think you should make games is by taking as long as you need to understand what the game is going to be like. It's quite rare that you have a Defcon moment, wake up and go, 'yeah I can see this entire game'. Usually you've got an idea for a game and you want to see how the pieces fit together.
On Subversion we've started with city generation. So we can automatically generate cities now and if you check out our website you'll see all of this stuff. We're generating ten kilometres by ten kilometres and the idea is that within every building in a city we want to then auto-generate a room, and then some sort of missions will then be taking place within that automatically generated environment.
So it's quite similar to Uplink but all in a virtual world. So imagine taking the virtual world of Uplink into the physical world of Subversion. That's kind of what we're trying to do and we're just trying to see where we can get with that at the moment. So that's the next big IP for us.
Good read. It does seem like forever since this was announced, but I'm glad to hear that Microsoft stepped in as much as they did to push the game as far as it could go.Shard said:Darwinia+ Interview
WHOMP WILY! 5
Clear the game once.
BLUE BOMBER 10
Clear the game in under an hour.
SUPERHERO 10
Clear the game on HARD.
HARD ROCK 20
Make it to a boss room without getting damaged.
HEADBANGING 20
Defeat the 8 bosses without your helmet on.
DESTROYER 20
Defeat 1000 enemies.
WORLD WARRIOR 5
Defeat one of every type of enemy.
TRUSTY SIDEARM 20
Defeat the 8 bosses with just your default weapon.
NO COFFEE BREAK 10
Clear the game without using any energy, mystery, or weapon tanks.
TENACIOUS 20
Clear the game without continuing.
INVINCIBLE 30
Clear the game without dying.
MR.PERFECT 30
Clear the game without getting damaged.
Shard said:
It looks like Darwinia+ is make or break for them. I hope the game is successful because I think they have the right idea for what a console RTS should play like. We probably won't be seeing it until the Spring though.There is a minimum sales figure for Darwinia+, a level that it has to achieve. If it doesn't achieve that then we don't have enough money to continue going - simple as that.
Shard said:
Host Samurai said:Does anybody know the chances or if these titles have been brought up for a XBLA release?
SystemShock 2
Diablo 2
and with easy modeShard said:Only not stupid.