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[yarden24]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

ok then, lets say someones father (an elder ,in a position of trust) told them to murder your entire family, they then proceed to butcher them.. now they run away and dont get caught for say... 20 years.

I assume you would be totally fine with them not getting persucuted, is that correct?

Handing them over to superiors, i.e., following orders is a war crime? Seriously, not every Nazi is a war criminal, and there's absolutely no point in sending a 97-year old man to jail.

yes, commiting a war crime, is in fact considered a war crime, I dont see how bieng ordered to do so makes you an less guilty, though it certainly makes your superiors guilty as well

this of course is if he is indeed proven to be guilty

 

[HerbertFish]

What the fuck.

I've never been in one of these threads and am not defending the rest of his post or saying this guy shouldn't be tried (he should), but why do people have such a problem with the "brainwashed" statement? I mean fuck, isn't that the whole reason we had a world war? Hitler managed to manipulate an entire country with ridiculous beliefs. In this guys case, if you send 15k people to their deaths, you have to be completely mentally fucked up. He should still be held responsible though.

Edit: Okay, he was the one who bolded brainwash. That makes more sense.

 

[HammerOfThor]

The way that article in the OP points out several times that all the victims are Jewish is really annoying. We are well aware of who the Holocaust victims where.

While I get putting him thru court, and I agree time can't forgive the crimes he committed, he will probably die before anything meaningful happens.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Well, the Nuremberg Trials were a judicial abomination, there isn't much credibility to it.

Oh I think there was a lot of credibility based on the mounds of evidence used to prove guilt and the future application of it's principles in later tribunals and international law.

The guy surely isn't a war criminal, but being a Nazi officer seems to eliminate any chance of defending himself.

He surely is.

I can explain why I mean he was no criminal. First, young hungarian men, much like latvians, had two options: enlist in the SS or be captured/killed by either nazis or communists. He, like everyone in the Latvian Legion, obviously didn't want to get killed, and also didn't want the Red Army to take Hungary.

That's a weak ass excuse if I ever heard one. Since anyone in Nazi Germany could have been killed for not following orders, by your logic, those people in the SS are the real victims.

Second, being in charge of a ghetto doesn't mean he killed prisoners, or, as a matter of fact, that he even knew about such things happening.

A deaf mute could tell what was going on there.

The only source of him being a mass murderer is the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which as biased as one can be.

Yeah the Jews are engaging in a massive conspiracy to defame a 97 year old guy.

 

[JiuJitsuka]

I disagree, the people who were just following orders should be rehabilitated and taught skills on how to resist authority when they have a moral objection. Now if the person actively participated and made no effort to get out of immoral actions then that's a different story.

I have to agree with this point.

 

[Arcteryx]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

Let's face it: he cries because he can't whip any more Jews.

Honestly can't believe people are trying to play the "brainwashed" card here. This isn't someone who was in the Hitler Youth. This was a semi-important person who handled the lives of THOUSANDS of people.

 

[Grym]

The way that article in the OP points out several times that all the victims are Jewish is really annoying. We are well aware of who the Holocaust victims where.

Jews were not the only victims in the Holocaust

 

[Forceatowulf]

The "why bother" people really piss me the fuck off.

At this stage it's about principle, people. You can't do what he did and just walk away. I don't give a fuck if he was a thousand years old. The fuck out of here.

 

[kswiston]

Jews were not the only victims in the Holocaust

I think that the Holocaust was traditionally defined to cover only the extermination of the 6 million Jews. Others argue that other ethnic/political groups that were persecuted and put to death should be included as well, since those other victims probably matched or outnumbered the Jewish victims in total. However, I don't think any of those other groups were hit as hard as the Jewish people, which saw 90% of their number die in Poland, Germany and other places.

 

[Grym]

I think that the Holocaust was traditionally defined to cover only the extermination of the 6 million Jews. Others argue that other ethnic/political groups that were persecuted and put to death should be included as well, since those other victims probably matched or outnumbered the Jewish victims in total. However, I don't think any of those other groups were hit as hard as the Jewish people, which saw 90% of their number die in Poland, Germany and other places.

I'm aware. But I'm not a fan of simply overlooking the 2.5 million gentile Polish (not to mention the Gypsies, Catholics, handicapped, homosexual, and others not of the "Aryan" race) killed in the Holocaust in order to simplify the general public's understanding of what the Holocaust entailed.

 

[LyleLanley]

Guilty until proven innocent GAF is out in full force today. Trial by media wins again.

I really like all the 'throw him in prison' comments.

Innocent until proven guilty???

I think most people in this thread are saying that he should be thrown in prison after a trial if he is found to be guilty.

 

[Kiraly]

It is not like the Hungarian government will do anything worthwhile, I read that the organization hunting nazi criminals caught one a while back and he was acquitted of all charges by Hungarian court.

 

[SniperHunter]

It is not like the Hungarian government will do anything worthwhile, I read that the organization hunting nazi criminals caught one a while back and he was acquitted of all charges by Hungarian court.

Mossad can still kill him though....

 

[The Technomancer]

On the one hand, he's ninety-fucking-seven, there's no way that putting him in prison does any good in terms of the whole "rehabilitation and punishment" thing, but on the other hand definitely put him on trial, put him on the world stage, and let him die with everyone knowing what he did.

 

[yarden24]

It is not like the Hungarian government will do anything worthwhile, I read that the organization hunting nazi criminals caught one a while back and he was acquitted of all charges by Hungarian court.

admittley I know little of the hungarian court system, but did it ever cross your mind that maybe he was in fact, innocent?

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Just because he's old doesn't mean he's safe from punishment.

 

[volturnus]

admittley I know little of the hungarian court system, but did it ever cross your mind that maybe he was in fact, innocent?

It surely doesn't. Being a nazi automatically makes him guilty of crimes against humanity and so on.

 

[SniperHunter]

Just because he's old doesn't mean he's safe from punishment.

Agreed. According to some people here, it's ok if a 97 year old man molests kids, kills people and blows up a building because he is too old and will die during trial. What a bullshit argument.

 

[Omegasquash]

On the one hand, he's ninety-fucking-seven, there's no way that putting him in prison does any good in terms of the whole "rehabilitation and punishment" thing, but on the other hand definitely put him on trial, put him on the world stage, and let him die with everyone knowing what he did.

I think the latter hand weighs more than the former, but that's just my opinion. Raking him over the coals if he's guilty of being a fucking NAZI is kind enough already.

Sorry my opinion sort of shows there. I'm all for due process, of course.

 

[CountAntonius]

Arrested

An elderly man suspected of Nazi war crimes has been arrested in Hungary, prosecutors said Wednesday, after a worldwide Jewish rights organization discovered him living in Budapest.

Ladislaus Csizsik-Csatary is accused of sending more than 15,000 Jews to the Auschwitz concentration camp in the spring of 1944, the he Simon Wiesenthal Center said.

 

[juanpablo]

If a 97 year old can be prosecuted for war crimes committed 8 decades ago then surely there is no issue prosecuting a certain 84 year old Israeli by the name of Ariel Sharon for the war crimes he commited 3 decades ago?

 

[Utako]

He probably was responsible for the deaths of very old people. He didn't say "What's the point?" and leave them alone.

 

[Instigator]

If a 97 year old can be prosecuted for war crimes committed 8 decades ago then surely there is no issue prosecuting a certain 84 year old Israeli by the name of Ariel Sharon for the war crimes he commited 3 decades ago?

Bring him back from his coma then sentence him to death.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Young, stupid, and brainwashed. He believed in what he was fighting for, he didn't know any better, he thought the road he chose was right because his elders (in a position of trust) told him to.

Everything is relative, and so were his actions.

Yes, he is responsible for sending thousands to meet their maker, but what is an appropriate punishment for this man?

He's already dead, and probably dead inside. He probably had no life either, living in fear, not being able to relax, thinking when 'they' will come for him.

Put yourself in his shoes, he probably cries every night knowing what he did. He is human, not a machine. He may have regrets, he does have emotions.

Reducing him to evil will do you no good, he has sinned, but he is still HUMAN.

And what do humans do? They err.

Your 'fucking' reductionism is futile, he becomes his actions, and you demonstrate a lack of empathy. And so do all the other blind justiciers out there. The judicial system does not accommodate each case by its own, and if it did, it wouldn't be equitable for all, and that is why it fails. Something can be done, outside of the broken 'system'.

Justice is blind.

Others have already said it but it bears repeating. I've rarely seen so much wrong in one post on this board.

 

[astroturfing]

i agree that he shouldn't just get away with it because he's old.. if he really was responsible for mass murder, there's should be no escape.

BUT i can't help feeling a bit uncomfortable with the idea of punishing someone who probably doesn't remember what he did, and might not understand why he is punished. if he is too far gone and merely a shell of a man, what is the point of punishment other than satisfying our own lust for revenge?

i hope he still remembers though and that the memories haunt him.

 

[Onemic]

i agree that he shouldn't just get away with it because he's old.. if he really was responsible for mass murder, there's should be no escape.

BUT i can't help feeling a bit uncomfortable with the idea of punishing someone who probably doesn't remember what he did, and might not understand why he is punished. if he is too far gone and merely a shell of a man, what is the point of punishment other than satisfying our own lust for revenge?

i hope he still remembers though and that the memories haunt him.

And how do you know that he suffers from dementia?

 

[astroturfing]

And how do you know that he suffers from dementia?

well i dont, i guess i just assume a 97 year old brain doesn't function properly anymore.