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[Kleegamefan]

Here are my tentative desires for a PC:

OC'ed AMD Mobile Barton XP2600+

Beefy Powersupply (PC power and cooling inc?)

19 inch monitor

perhaps 2 36GB Raid0 HDDs

nForce2 mobo (NF7-S?)

Dual-format DVD burner(Pioneer A07?)

a good AGP DX9 card (nVidia 6800 GT/)




I was wondering if you guys could help me with some suggestions on a tower...I am willing to pay as much as $200 (but would like to keep it lower than this)...I live in Mohave Valley Arizona, which is one of the hottest places in the US....130 degree summers....I am looking for a good tower that will dissipate heat (aluminum, I would think?), has a digital temp. readout and has lots of fans and/or excels in cool airflow...

I do not want to get any fancy water cooled setups but I will be overclocking my Mobile Barton by a moderate amount (don't want to push it too far) so I wan't as much cooling overhead via the tower...

Any suggestions?

Oh, and where is the best forum for overclocking (mobile bartons, mobos, video cards, etc)

Thanks guys

 

[Slo]

Setting your sites awfully low, arent' you? Are you trying to build this thing dirt cheap?

 

[Kleegamefan]

I am trying to build what I am trying to build...

At any rate, what do you guys think about these cases?

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-119-058&DEPA=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-119-030&depa=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-119-042&depa=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-141&depa=0

 

[Slo]

What does that mean? Why not go with a nice AMD 64? Are you going with a Mobile Barton just because you want to overclock it? How much do you want to spend?

HELP ME HELP YOU HELP ME HELP YOU.

 

[Ar_]

36Gb HD? I'd go for 200Gb minimum. Better GB/$$ ratio and you will fill them easily. Especially with a broadband internet connection.
Maybe that's not what you started the thread for thought

 

[EekTheKat]

perhaps 2 36GB Raid0 HDDs

Well if you work with video a lot then that's probably a pretty good solution.

I'd probably go with a single raptor 74gb (for the OS + programs installed on it) and a 250+gb 7200rpm drive as pure storage.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

19" LCD monitors are a rip off... Many are unaware of this, but a 17" LCD is the same size (give or take) as a 19" CRT.

Definately get a wall mount for the LCD Looks cool and saves space and looks really cool.

Why are you getting a Nforce 2 mobo? They have USB issues w/ external storage.

 

[EekTheKat]

For what it's worth as a point of reference, my setup is nearly the same as that one (except with a 2500+ Mobile barton).

I'm running at 216x11.5 right now 2485mhz, with the ram at 2,2,2,11 at 1.825vcore

I've been tempted to switch to PC4000 ram or so, but I have a feeling I've reached the point of diminishing returns on my setup, that and this is still pretty damn fast for all the gaming that I do.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

What's w/ the CPU?


If you can drop $200 on a case, you should definately get a more capable CPU. AMD64 or a 2.8 Pentium 4.

Especially dealing w/ video. Encoding is all CPU, so the faster the CPU the better. OCing introduces mucho heat, so I don't suggest going that route, especially if you're new to this.

 

[tedtropy]

19" LCD monitors are a rip off... Many are unaware of this, but a 17" LCD is the same size (give or take) as a 19" CRT.

Definately get a wall mount for the LCD Looks cool and saves space and looks really cool.

Why are you getting a Nforce 2 mobo? They have USB issues w/ external storage.

Depends on what he'll be using it for. A good CRT is still the way to go for gaming - you're not stuck with one native resolution and it's still going to be able to update the screen quicker.

 

[ravingloon]

It was a while ago, but a very reputable site did a comparison of aluminum and steel cases and showed aluminum was zero benefit. It's lighter and very popular, but don't eliminate a steel case based on heat considerations.

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Newegg, but I've also ordered cooling supplies from:

http://www.casecooler.com/index.html

numerous times and give them big thumbs up. Great service, prices, and resellerratings.com rating.

As I mentioned way back in earlier threads (Probably under Judge&Jury) I'm also hot (SW Florida) and I replaced all my stock Antec fans with Panaflo fans and I'll agree with all the people who love these fans, very good fans and worth the money if you're not in a cool climate.

I also had to RMA my Radeon 9800 and didn't want to void the warranty on my replacement by tearing off the fan, but if these new cards still are not exhausting the air out the case and you don't want to void your warranty, I can vouch that this is a pretty decent solution for getting the stagnant heat away from your video card:

http://www.casecooler.com/43slotexfanb.html

Sorry I'm not gonna contribute more at the moment, but after waiting 4 weeks to get my cable rehooked (Thanks to Hurricane Charley ripping the cable down), I'm still without a working cable modem. The repairman came out on Saturday, couldn't get the modem working, and said to go to the office on Monday and get a new modem. After replacing the modem, I find out half the city was without RoadRunner during the weekend and this was the cause. The replacement modem is defective. So I'm just waiting for a RR technician to come on Wed. and do everything right at once. In the meantime I'm using a free trial of AOL and clicking on links is too much of a pain. I'll check back later.

Edit: When you get the Kenwood/Rocket Tykes for your daughter, post some impressions. Assuming I can get what I think I can for my Infinitys, I'm gonna jump on this deal. Haven't been a fan of tiny speakers, but my Infinitys have silk dome tweeters and I love the sound. The fact all 5 speakers are using this for their tweeters has me very impressed. And that receiver. *Swoon*

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I can vouch that this is a pretty decent solution for getting the stagnant heat away from your video card:http://www.casecooler.com/43slotexfanb.html

^^^
BAD ADVICE

I used to think the same thing, but that's not the case. A GPU fan, much like a CPU fan, is designed to pull air in towrds the heatsink. An exhaust fan pulls the air away.

It's becomes an expensive game of tug O' war.

 

[ravingloon]

Well I get a shitload of hot air coming out of that exhaust (My hottest fan). With the little crappy fan on the Radeon, all the hot air gets trapped beneath the video card and can't rise because the card is blocking it's path upwards. Now if the fan were on the other side of the card, I wouldn't have bought it. But my case temperatures went down and I can overclock my crappy Infineron RAM quite a bit further than normal. But if these new cards have nice cooling solutions, disregard.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

No, your setup works great, but putting an exhaust fan near the grfx card is a no-no. It's best to have nothing near the grfx card (leave an empty PCI slot). That way the two don't work against one another. I had to learn the hard way.

Air flow is so very important. But multiple fans does not = good air flow. You have to be strategic in their placement. Most people's heating issues come from warm environment and sh!tty case air intake, not so much lack of exhaust.

 

[teh_pwn]

You're getting two SATA Raptors in RAID 0? Why? It won't perform noticably better than a single, and it's such a low capacity. Save your money and get a Seagate Barracuda or something.

Why RAID 0 isn't worth it:
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101&p=11

Here's a standard good ol SATA HDD. They'll perform about the same as Raptors in games and whatnot:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-034&depa=0

Here's a beast of a HDD that'll outperform 36 GB Raptors in RAID0 and it has 300 GB capacity. If you're looking for brute speed, get something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-359&depa=0

Why is it faster? 16 MB cache and Native Command Queing:
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2094&p=12

That's comparing to the 74 GB Raptors, which are faster than the 36 GB.




Ditch the Barton 2600+. It won't keep up with your video in the future, and it'll lag in applications.

For AMD, I suggest getting a AMD 64. The Socket 754s are really cheap now. Remember a Barton 3200+ (which is as much as a 2600+ Barton will OC to anyway) gets spanked by a 2800+ 64.

Get an Antec Truepower 480-550 W.

Nice video and drive.

If you're not going anywhere and you play games, get a CRT hands down. I recommend NEC/Mits because they use an aperture grill (basically a Trinitron and Sony left the CRT market a couple years back). But if you're moving around a lot and you don't play games too much, get an LCD.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I'm just going to throw up props for the 6800 GT. I've only had mine for about a week, but I like it better than my 9800Pro because it doesn't overheat and crash.

However I still question you coupling this video card with that processor. What are you hiding from us?

 

[Kleegamefan]

If you can drop $200 on a case, you should definately get a more capable CPU. AMD64 or a 2.8 Pentium 4.

Here's the deal....

This particular comp is limited by my decision to use the nVidia nForce2 mobo, which as you all know is an AGP product...

I do not wish to spend the xtra $$$ on the PCI-Express platform as that would force me to use much more expensive parts..that is, I would have to get a more expensive Athlon 64, a more expensive nForce3 mobo, and a seprate sound card since most nForce 3s don't have built-in DD 5.1 sound, ala the nForce2...

Again, this is my first PC build, so if I screw up, I would rather replace the mobile barton for $80 than an Athlon 64 for a few hundred or if I fry the mobo, I can get a new nForce2 for half the price(or less) of an nForce 3...

I plan on building a balls-out PCI-E comp. next year (wait for any PCI-E bugs or kinks to get worked out)....besides an OC'd Mobile bartoned, 6800GTed, nForce2ed comp. isn't really slumming it, is it?

The reason I a willing to pay a premium for the case is since I will be OC-ing the Mobile Barton and maybe the FSB and video card too...PLUS I live in a super hot climate, I want the coolest(as in temp.) case I can find, without resorting to anything exotic like water cooling...

Believe me, I will be building a comp with the 18000 3DMark scores soon enough....for now, this will do...


Back on the subject; so do you think I should go with an all alloy case considering my cooling requirements??

I really like the S-curve design of that Cooler Master case....are they the only ones who do this???

Any one with a digital readout on the front?

 

[Kleegamefan]

OOOHHH...this is NIIIICCCEE:

http://www.casecooler.com/thtsdrsicava.html

I like this one...has anyone used it (or something like it) before....how are the fans?.

I don't want the clear window in the side, do they provide an option to delete it?

Mucho props to ravingloon

I recieved the Kenwood/Tyke combo yesterday but I haven't set it up yet (daugther is currently grounded for hiding hot pockets under her bed and lying about doing her homework....grrrrr!!) but I will post impressions once I set it up for her...

teh_pwn (great name, btw) thanks for the Raid0 info...I will read up on it and make a decision....mostly I wanted to get the 2 36GB HDD because:

A-I don't think I'll need a million GBs of HDD space

B-I was assuming dual Raid0 HDDs would improve performance with games (Doom 3 and HL2) and stuff...

So keeping it under 120GBs (which should also keep prices down) what should I get??

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

You could have mentioned your daughter earlier and a lot of us would have taken that to mean that you had other responsibilities that influence how much you spend on a PC. Might have saved you some explaining.

Anyway, looks like Thermaltake is copying other case designs again, but that doesn't mean that it's bad. I built a PC for my sis with a Thermaltake case; one with a big metal door to block access to the button from her twin five year-olds. The case fans were super quiet, so I'm sure these will follow suit. I also put a new TT powersupply in my PC the other week, and the fan in it, turned on low, are nearly silent. I like their stuff.

As for hard drives... back home, folks up north liked WD and folks down south liked Maxtor. I had both fail on and decided to one-up em all and get a Seagate. I like my Seagate, but that is by no means conclusive. I can say this: It is vewy, vewy quiet.

 

[Kleegamefan]

My daughter has nothing to do with with me building this comp....I will be building another, more powerful PCI-E comp. in the future and I want to start off with an AGP one...

Since I will be building the 2nd computer in 2005, its performance will probably spank any of the stuff you are suggesting now anyway......here is what I am looking at building:

Mid-level comp now for Doom 3 and HL2 and to get my feet wet with OC-ing(even though this is my first computer I will be building, I believe I am up to the challange)

Screamer comp. later for stuff like Unreal 3

BTW, beyond Thermaltake, Coolermaster and this one from Silverstone: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-163-028&depa=0

Does anyone else use the S-curve front panel design??

Its the most stylish and elegant solution I have seen yet....


EDIT: found a black Thermaltake without the window for $102 at newegg!!!

YUMMY!!

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-133-137&depa=0

Does this case have good airflow??

 

[Kleegamefan]

A little pricey, at $165, BUT it has everything I like, styling wise(LCD display, S-curve design)

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=11-163-028&DEPA=0


I wish, for that kinda dough, it was all alloy though


PS...I really like how the Silverston Temjin has the LCD screen on the front panel so you don't have to open up the S-curve door to get the readaout.....do any others have this option or do you think there is any way to get a different S-curve case (like, say, the coolermasters) with an external LCD screen???

 

[isamu]

.................?

Klee....

ETA on GameFan's resurrection?

 

[crumbs]

I have 2 80gb samsung hds in raid 0 and it was a waste. Unless you do video editing or something that involves extremely large files, skip raid and just get one drive. However, the samsung drives (SATA) have been very quiet and reliable. People don't talk about them like WD or Seagate, but I've been happy with them.

 

[ravingloon]

Get the Sunday ads, and there's almost always really good deals on 7200RPM and 8MB Cache Hard Drives. For your purposes, anything else is lousy bang for the buck. You can get great deals on Western Digital drives (My preference).

The NF7-S has a temperature diode underneath the processor and another on the motherboard (For case temperatures). There are a number of software programs you can use, including one by Abit. You can get the CPU and Case temperature anytime you want just by opening the application. So unless you're really anal about having the display on the case, it's not really necessary.

Edit: You can also set the CPU warning and automatic shutdown really low in the BIOS. I think I have CPU shutdown set at 65C in BIOS. So it'll shutdown long before any damage occurs if things go haywire.

I also included that CaseCooler link because I would recommend not even worrying if a case has lousy fans. Just replace everything with Panaflos (They're pretty cheap). They're made by Panasonic for industrial applications and if you spend enough time looking around the internet, you'll see there's a huge following for these things.

 

[Tenguman]

If you're limiting yourself because you're afraid of frying something ---- don't.

you're not going to fry anything. Better to take a VERY small risk than to miss out on a better PC

That 2600+ is going to hold your 6800GT back A LOT. If you're going for that CPU, then you're better off getting a 6600GT and saving ~$200 since the performance will be about the same as what you're looking to buy already. Your videocard scales with your CPU, and a 2600+ Barton tops out at the 128mb line (9800 Pro/6600)

 

[ravingloon]

1 more thing about the case. The southbridge chip on the NForce2 boards (Audio and LAN) gets really hot. I'd read about this, but when I was building and testing my computer, I couldn't believe how hot it was. When I finialy put the side panel on, with intake fan, the air from that fan took the temperature of that chip to room temperature. So I'd really recommend a case with a side panel fan (If for no other reason than the southbridge chip).

 

[Kleegamefan]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it really helps me...

ravingloon...you are the bomb....where is a good forum on the net to go talk about OC-ing Mobile Bartons and such??

Check out the cases at this site!!!!


http://www.xgbox.com/

I really like the LCD designs on their cases...

I think this is going to be my next box:

Introducing the new QUANTUM case by XG, this highly stylized & very sleek case is every user/gamers dream machine. Not only is the QUANTUM unique in its design, it's built for stability and power.

We also added a high performance, 500Watt P4 ATX Power Supply! This comes standard on our Hi-End QUANTUM case. What QUANTUM comes equipped/ready high speed SATA power ready that comes with this package. A bonus feature is the front panel LED lighted HDD and Power Indicators, a unique look thats sure to captivate the essence of true power and performance for today’s and tomorrows performance oriented atx cases.

FEATURES
- Dual Side Panel Ventilation
- Highly Stylized Silver Paint and Emblem
- 7 Fan/Temp Speed Controller BUILT IN
- 500W P4/AMD - SATA Ready Power Supply
- Top Panel I/O Ports: 2 x USB 2.0, 1394, Spk. & Mic
- Cable Managment Clips Installed
- Tool Free Rail Clips
- Massive Ventilation
- Total Case Security
- Tool Free PCI Fasteners
- Dust Free Filters
- Drive Bays: 5 x 5.25”, 2 x 3.5” (plus 3 x 3.5” Hidden)

- 5.25” Bays: 5
- 3.5” Open Bays: 2
- 3.5” Internal Bays: 3
- 80mm Fans: 2 (Included)
- 92mm Fans: 3 (Included)
- Material: SECC 1.0mm
- Power Supply: 500W, Intel P4 & AMD Approved,
Nylon Sleeved, SATA Power Enabled.

- Top I/O Ports: 2 x USB 2.0, Firewire, Spk & Mic
- Tool Free PCI Slot: Included
- Temp/Fan Display: Included 7 fan/temp fan controller
- Fan Filters: 3
- Dimensions (DxWxH): 480 x 190 x 435mm

I actually found the place that makes the quantum for XG:

http://www.mge-usa.com/mge-web/titanium.htm

 

[ravingloon]

That's a sexy looking case. And with the ventilation on that thing, I'd think it'd be pretty easy to keep the case temperatures around room temperature.

I'm not saying this is the best site for oc'ing (Their may be better that I don't know about), but I really like the forums over here:

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/

They have some basic guideline/FAQS, links to some motherboard mods (If you wanna go really hard core), and just a ton of really useful information. The Abit NF7-S seems to be the most popular NF2 board on the forums, so if you stick to the Abit section, there's a lot of posters.

As for specific advice, it's not really that easy. They'll usually reply that all components are unique and there's no steadfast rule about what you can and can't do. You have to experiment with your components to find the best fit. But generally you just overclock the FSB and/or multiplier and once you get unstable, can raise voltage a notch. Raising voltage allows you to push higher, but also increases CPU temps.

 

[pestul]

The new ATI X800XT (non-PE) is another card to consider as well.. since it's now in direct competition with the 6800GT, and can pretty much overclock to XT-PE speeds. .. unless all you play is Doom 3 and OpenGL games.

 

[radioheadrule83]

What kinda spec would you guys recommend for a system that is solely for uploading/downloading to a site, and video editing?

I live in the UK so I can't use NewEgg or some of the other places you guys do, but I think I can hunt down the parts. I'm on about $1,340 a month after tax... I need a suprising amount for paying my way, and living for the month, but I don't mind saving a little if I have to...

Cheers.

Tom

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I still question the logic here...

You can get socket 754 mobo (Athlon64) w/ regular ol' PCI slots. They all have them save for the brand brand new sh!t. OC'ing is not worth it when you can get something way more capable and future-proof...stock.

Also, I've built PCs using those cases and they're huge.

I dunno. I see what you're doing but I can't really endorse the part selection.

P.S. - And why is RAM hardly mentioned? That's so very important to consider.

 

[Slo]

ABIT "NF7-S2G" nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard For AMD Socket A CPU -RETAIL
Item# N82E16813127184

$89.00

AMD 45 Watt Mobile Athlon XP 2600+, 266 MHz FSB, 512K L2 Cache Processor - OEM

$103.00

Total (Before tax): $ 192.00

ASUS "K8V" K8T800 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL

$99.00

AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512k L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - OEM
Item# N82E16819103487

$208.00


Total (Before tax): $ 307.00

That's only an extra $100 for a 3200+ A64. Just something to consider.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

Exactly my point.

 

[Kleegamefan]

OK, now I get what you guys are saying...

I just assumed current Athlon 64s were just PCI-E

Couple of questions though:

ASUS "K8V" K8T800 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 754 CPU -RETAIL

The onboard audio for this mobo is the following:

Onboard Audio: AD1980 6-Channel Audio

And the onboard audio for the Abit NF7-S nForce2 is this:

Onboard Audio: nVIDIA SoundStorm APU(Dolby 5.1) + 6-Channel AC97 CODEC

How do the 2 compare, exactly....from what I gather(correct me if I am wrong, though) the Soundstorm APU is better than the AD1980...if true, this is not bad for a cheaper mobo?

ALSO....how much faster would this:

AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 512k L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - OEM
Item# N82E16819103487

Be than this:

AMD Athlon XP 3200+ "Barton", 400MHz FSB, 512K Cache Processor - OEM

From what I understand (bare with me, I'm still a n00b) you can overclock a mobile barton 2600+ to Athlon 3200+ speeds pretty easily and this is exactly what I plan to do...Doom 2 and HL2 are CPU limited from what I understand....does anyone have any benchmarks that compare the socket 754 Athlon 64 3200+ to the Athlon XB 3200+ barton?

This would probably illustrate to me just how much more would the extra $100 get me in games like HL2 and Doom 3....

PS. does the K8T800 decode Dolby Digital....I believe Doom 3 is encoded in DD 5.1 right?

 

[SKluck]

Soundstorm is the best onboard audio you will ever get. If you don't have an nvidia board you might as well just get a soundcard.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

For an audiophile, why would you want onboard audio? Get a dedicated sound card, if not now, later.

Also, why are you bothering w/ OCing? That should be a luxury, not a necessity. When your XP install gets hosed one day due to OCing (it happens), then you'll really regret it.

 

[ravingloon]

I would kind of question the CPU direction too (It made a lot more sense when these threads started). But if he's planning on building a monster system with all the latest tech next year, I can also see how you can save a couple hundred and sacrafice very little short term. Even cheap RAM isn't gonna limit performance that much and a killer rig built next year is gonna want DDR-2 system RAM.

DCB: There's a significant difference between Soundstorm boards when using the analog out and using the digital out. If using the digital out, many argue it sounds better than Audigy and has the best CPU utilization out there.

If going the Athlon 64 route, however, I'd skip the NForce3 boards. No matter what mobo you choose, your only real option (Quality and CPU utilization) is the Audigy family anyways.

Edit: And with regards to cooling. Even if you're running things stock, unless you're running the air conditioning year round, good cooling is recommended. If there's periods in the Spring/Fall when the temperatures are borderline and you don't wanna run the air just so your PC can breathe easy, good ventilation is a must.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Please bare with me guys, it is just an idea at this point....I haven't commited anything yet...

Again, this comp is just phase one....like I said before, there will be a phase two comp next year along with probably a few more comps in the future....I am in school getting my degree in Computer Science and will be pursuing the Network + and A+ certs next year....I am taking a Networking class this semester...

It has been my plan to make my first PC build an OCed Mobile Barton for a couple of months now....I know that may sound funky to you guys but that is the beauty of building PCs...you can do whatever crazy thing you want...to a degree...

I do not know that much about RAM but my tentative plans were to to get dual Crucial 512MB DDR PC3200 RAM w/3.0 CAS latancy....again not the best, but good enough to get good performance with Doom 3/HL2...

Is the Athlon 64 3200 OC friendly like the Mobile Bartons, which I believe really lend themselves to OCing..

Benchmarks comparisons??

 

[PanopticBlue]

Your choice of parts do not really make sense. It's a price/performance issue.

Most importantly though, because of your choice of parts, and your admittance to being a noob, I would highly suggest NOT trying to OC just yet. Your knowledge thus far suggests that you're not exactly sure of what you're doing, however good your intentions may be. There is great potential here for you to fry your new rig the first day.

The Athlon 64 3200 at stock speed will smoke that mobile Barton, I don't care how much you OC it.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

On board audio rocks (pun intended), don't get me wrong... It as come a very long way. But regardless of the sound quality, it eats up CPU cycles. Not a lot, but enough for it to be somewhat of a drag. I'm no audiophile by any means, but still would only used integrated audio if I absolutely had to.

 

[teh_pwn]

Here's benches for all the recent processors and the AMD XP Barton line:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040601/socket_939-19.html

The AMD 64 3200+ is like 20% faster than the XP Barton 3200+ consistently. You can't OC much with a Barton 3200+.


Right now, Intel's got much better CPUs for OCing. I have a P4 3.0 GHz Nortwood 800 FSB, ABIT IC7 MAX 3, and 1 GB of Dual Channel PC4000 OCZ RAM in dual channel.

I have overclocked to 3.5 GHz stable for about 2 months, with no changes to core voltage or anything on air cooling and stock heatsink/fan. Just a few minor changes in BIOS aside from increasing my FSB multiplier. I tried 3.6 but programs will crash under heavy load. I could go higher if I increased my CPU core voltage, but that's risky.

I ran Sisoft Sandra yesterday, and my processor benches between a P4 Prescott 3.8 GHz and 4.0 GHz that are about to be released. I can't really compare to AMD because the program seems intel biased and synthetic. But I can compare to other intel cpus.

I paid:
CPU - $220
Mobo - $180
RAM - $300

$700. A tad pricey but it beats paying that much for the processor alone (the 3.8 GHz processor).

 

[teh_pwn]

As for HDDs, I'd recommend a SATA 160 GB. It's the best cost/memory right now. Extra memory won't hurt you. It'll increase your speed too because as your HDD gets full, performance drops. If you've only got like 20% freespace, you're going to have lag.

I have this one, or an earlier revision of it:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-018&depa=1

Just over $100.

 

[ravingloon]

On board audio rocks (pun intended), don't get me wrong... It as come a very long way. But regardless of the sound quality, it eats up CPU cycles. Not a lot, but enough for it to be somewhat of a drag. I'm no audiophile by any means, but still would only used integrated audio if I absolutely had to.

I'm going to assume you're not talking about the Nforce Audio chip (Which not all Nforce 2 boards have). Because that's got the lowest CPU utilization of any sound solution ever.

And I'm not trying to talk anybody into anything, but if he's taking those classes in school, overclocking is not going to trouble him. Anyone not riding the short bus shouldn't have too much trouble and unless the mobo has a lousy BIOS system, frying the 1st day should be impossible (Too much heat over extended periods is another issue).

And DCB, how would XP ever get hosed from overclocking? Assuming you somehow did fry a processor one day, it's a piece of hardware that simply needs replacing. I think whoever you saw this from had a couple too many viruses on his computer from warez and somehow lumped the 2 problems together. CPU goes, replace it. XP doesn't need rebooting unless you're replacing the motherboard with it.

 

[Tenguman]

From what I understand (bare with me, I'm still a n00b) you can overclock a mobile barton 2600+ to Athlon 3200+ speeds pretty easily and this is exactly what I plan to do...Doom 2 and HL2 are CPU limited from what I understand....does anyone have any benchmarks that compare the socket 754 Athlon 64 3200+ to the Athlon XB 3200+ barton?

here are some ideas to give you ideas of the performance of similar speeds of Athlon 64's and Athlon XPs

From Anandtech's DOOM 3 vs CPU article:

you can clearly see how much benefit you get by going with the Athlon 64 as far as Doom 3 is concerned (heck as far as any game is concerned)


I bought my Athlon 64 motherboard + Athlon 64 3200+ for under $300 a month ago. Non PCI-E

But if you're cost consicence, a regular XP is OK.

 

[Kleegamefan]

OK...that helps me more....

Yes, it does seem that upgrading to the Athlon 64 *will* net me quite a performance boost even *without* overclocking..

So then...

Would you sat the Socket 754 Athlon 64 3200+ is the best value?

Is the Athlon 64 3200+ as overclock friendly as the Mobile barton?

What mobo should I use (looking for the best onboard audio I can get)

Look guys, the reason I am looking for onboard audio is because I am looking to keep costs down...

The nForce2/w soundstream (basically an XBOX SPU/Mobo) is said to give great sound via the toslink out (I can hook it up to my Aragon Stage One pre)and decodes Dolby Digital which for me is good for Doom 3...choosing this mobo forces me to get something like a Mobile Barton and OC it...which for the money gives good performance, so I thought...

Yes, the Athlon 64 *does* seem to offer much better performance, and I am starting to think hard about that choice but if I go down that road, not only will I now have to pay $100 more for the CPU, I will probably now have to also invest in a seprate sound card for Dolby Digital decoding and soundstream-like sound quality via the digital outs..that is probably another $50 at least...so the choice is not quite as cut and dry for me...

Hmmmmm......

 

[Kleegamefan]

SCRATCH THAT..

Just found out that a majority of these 754 mobos use the C-media AC97 codec and this supports Dolby Digital:

http://www.cmedia.com.tw/product/CMI9780.htm

The Albatron "K8X800 ProII" K8T800 Chipset Motherboard supports the 7.1 VIA Vinyl Envy24PT PCI Audio Controller:

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/audio/controllers/envy24pt/

And, of course, many 754 mobos also have the Realtek ALC850 8-Channel Codec like this nForce3 mobo:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-123-219&depa=0

Here is the codec:
http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/products1-2.aspx?modelid=2003101


So, I guess, my next question is; do any of these codecs perform as well as the Soundstream?

That is, do they offer CPU utilization, Dolby Digital decoding and sound quality performance similar to the Abit NF7-S?

The answer to these questions are important to me..

 

[ravingloon]

I did a lot of searching last summer and found some pretty good audio benchmarks from a number of sites. Have no idea where there are now, but ALL onboard audio (NFORCE the only exclusion) is absolute crap. Where as Nforce and Audigy would generally be 2-10 percent, the other onboard chips were 25-35 CPU utilization on some games (Almost never below 20 percent.) You use these onboard audio, you're gonna pretty much be pissing away whatever performance gains you're gonna receive (Unless benchmarking with audio turned off is your only objective).

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=0

I can't vouch for this, but this is what I would get if building a Athon 64 computer today and budget was a concern. Audigy 1s for 44.99 seems like a decent solution.

 

[ravingloon]

I think I'm checking out of this thread. On board audio may have improved since summer 2003. If you really wanna be sure about what you're buying, I suggest you grind away on Google with specific model numbers and key words of cpu utilization.

 

[buck naked]

As an NF7-S and 36gb Raptor owner myself, I recommend you stay away from SATA Raptors. The NF7 doesn't have a proper SATA implementation, it runs on the PCI bus - meaning you'll be bottlenecked with a RAID setup.

Look into the Maxtor MaxLine II Plus range if you want performance and size on a single disk.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

And DCB, how would XP ever get hosed from overclocking?

Do some research. It's common. System won't boot due to a corrupt file in the system 32 folder. Others here have had that happen as it was up for discussion not too long ago.

Either way, I don't feel like getting in a debate about OC'ing because, quite frankly, it makes no sense for him to do so.