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[Grexeno]

Being devoted to a man doesn't equal being defined by one. Sakura didn't suck because she was devoted, she sucked because she was blindly devoted to a man who didn't care at all about her.

Mikasa knows that Eren isn't perfect, and she does her best to make up for his flaws. She's badass on her own, Eren is just her motivation. The love that makes it worthwhile for her to get up in the morning.

This devotion could be seen as negative if Eren were some masculine paragon, but he isn't. Sure, Mikasa loses her will to live when she thinks Eren died, but Eren loses his will to live on a regular basis for far less.

Nope. She has no character outside of her devotion to Eren. That 100% equals being defined by him. Also, "badass" and "stoic" are not character traits.

 

[B-Dubs]

Being devoted to a man doesn't equal being defined by one. Sakura didn't suck because she was devoted, she sucked because she was blindly devoted to a man who didn't care at all about her.

Mikasa knows that Eren isn't perfect, and she does her best to make up for his flaws. She's badass on her own, Eren is just her motivation. The love that makes it worthwhile for her to get up in the morning.

This devotion could be seen as negative if Eren were some masculine paragon, but he isn't. Sure, Mikasa loses her will to live when she thinks Eren died, but Eren loses his will to live on a regular basis for far less.

Misaka's character is defined by her relationship with Eren. She wouldn't have a purpose in life without him, that's a much bigger issue than anything else people are complaining about in this thread. She is literally defined by a man and you even admit that.

 

[ethomaz]

Edit - Forget my first post I'm drunk and messed the thread.

About the chapter... I just hate to read "no chapter next week" furiaaaaaaaaaaaa.

 

[Grexeno]

BTW I was drunk lol I just don't told you that

Oh we didn't have to be told lol

 

[ethomaz]

Oh we didn't have to be told lol

Wrong thread lol lol lol

 

[Veelk]

Mikasa's combat capabilities don't change the fact that her character is completely defined by a man. She's a non-sucky Sakura.

Say what you will about female One Piece characters, but none of them are completely defined by a man.

Okay, first off, this is false.

Mikasa is defined by something other than Eren. She's also defined is her duties as a Survey Corps soldier. I'm not even extrapolating on anything, because this is a plot point that comes up multiple times. The group wants to do a mission of some kind, and and Mikasa has Eren as a priority, and they need to remind her that she has other obligations. And she does adhere to those obligations. It's where the internal struggles of her character lie, when she is torn between those two devotions. It's a major part of her character.

And the problem with Naruto's women wasn't that Sakura was defined by her relationship with a man, but that nearly all the women in that series were. There is nothing wrong with a character whose main core is the love they have for another character. Plenty of male characters, stretching back to ancient myths. The reason that it isn't a men's issue is that we don't generalize that characteristic to ALL men. We understand that men have various interests and devotions. So even if Rory from Doctor Who, or Edward from Twilight, or Snape from Harry Potter, or hundreds of other male cahracters can be said to be defined by their love for a woman, we know that male characters aren't as a rule.

The problem with sexism is that exactly what we do with women, and this is why we have these false notions that a woman can't be attached to a man or otherwise she's just fitting into the mold, ignoring the context of the story she is in. And the reason that Mikasa is a good feminist character, despite her being devoted to a man, that attribute is 1. Not put on any kind of pedestal and the more important 2. While Mikasa may be devoted to a man, this isn't a statement on women.

So if you want to compare Attack on Titan to Naruto, you can't just cherry pick Mikasa and Sakura, you have to take all female characters of both series and count how many are defined by their relationship with men in each. Out of the main characters, on Naruto's side, we have Sakura, Hinata, Ino, Tsunade. More if you start counting lesser characters. On the Attack on Titan, we have Mikasa. That's it. And Petra, if you want to stretch the definition of main character to the brink of it's breaking point.

Hange is primarily devoted to SCIENCE! and the dicey moral ethics resulting from that. Krista has major identity issues with her family that become major plot points later on. Annie who is devoted to her mission, and has mysterious motivations. Sasha is a street rat that has hunger issues that is devoloping into a warrior. Ymir has a lot more going on for her than love interest, but even if we ignore the other stuff, she's defined by her love towards another woman. So there's nothing wrong with Mikasa being devoted to Eren as she is, because Attack on Titan doesn't make her devotion isn't a 'woman' thing, it's a 'Mikasa' thing. She is literally the only character of her kind in this regard in the entire series.

To say nothing of the fact that the consequences of a singleminded devotion are treated with a lot of nuance. This obsession that Mikasa is played in a number of ways. In some cases, it can be touching, because such a single minded passion is highly emotional, and a lot of people would like to have anyone care as much about them as Mikasa does about Eren. But at the same time, it's played comedically, with how Mikasa gets jealous and expresses it through violence (like the training ground with Annie). But then it's also sad and pathetic. When she thought Eren died, she lost the will to live. What kind of person is that, to have that little self agency and worth? But then it's also just flat out annoying. Levi and Jean both have to remind her that the fight they're fighting is bigger than just them and she can't just put Eren in front of the world. Seriously, compare the various degrees to which Mikasa's devotion is examined, and tell me how it compares to Naruto where it's played 99% for wangst, and (to my knowledge) how it's never really treated as the fucked up thing it is when Sasuke is so horrifically abusive.

Because Mikasa's devotion is treated with the complexity that befits it, it's good in some cases, bad in a lot of others. It is to say, this features isn't idealized or demonized. It just exists as part of her character, which defines her, yes, but not in a shallow way like in Naruto. It's a complex aspect of her identity that might be the core of who she is, but she's also someone whose growing beyond it, and has faced dilemma's concerning her devotion before. She understands that while Eren might be really important to her, he's not the only important thing to her, and she's not the only person with important things in the world. This makes Mikasa complex and believable as a fully developed human being. She's well written, in other words.

And that's what makes her a good feminist character.

And to make this post somewhat relevant to the topic, OP's women aren't often defined by men, I'll give them that. In fact, as far as Nami and Robin go, they're more defined by their mothers than anything. So I approve, but that doesn't mean they don't have a ton of other sexist issues in the series.

 

[B-Dubs]

OK, let me ask you this: Why did Misaka join the corps in the first place? What was her goal in joining? Here's a hint: she only joined because Eren did and she wanted to protect him. She's not a feminist character in any stretch of the imagination. The entire reason she's in the story at all is due to her fanatical devotion to Eren and the fact she lets what he does run her life. Science girl is a much better example of a feminist character, but she's more insane than anything else so she might not really count.

 

[Grexeno]

Okay, first off, this is false.

Mikasa is defined by something other than Eren. She's also defined is her duties as a Survey Corps soldier. I'm not even extrapolating on anything, because this is a plot point that comes up multiple times. The group wants to do a mission of some kind, and and Mikasa has Eren as a priority, and they need to remind her that she has other obligations. And she does adhere to those obligations. It's where the internal struggles of her character lie, when she is torn between those two devotions. It's a major part of her character.

Um

So, you do realize that this major part of her character still heavily revolves around Eren right?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Okay, first off, this is false.

Mikasa is defined by something other than Eren. She's also defined is her duties as a Survey Corps soldier. I'm not even extrapolating on anything, because this is a plot point that comes up multiple times. The group wants to do a mission of some kind, and and Mikasa has Eren as a priority, and they need to remind her that she has other obligations. And she does adhere to those obligations. It's where the internal struggles of her character lie, when she is torn between those two devotions. It's a major part of her character.

And the problem with Naruto's women wasn't that Sakura was defined by her relationship with a man, but that nearly all the women in that series were. There is nothing wrong with a character whose main core is the love they have for another character. Plenty of male characters, stretching back to ancient myths. The reason that it isn't a men's issue is that we don't generalize that characteristic to ALL men. We understand that men have various interests and devotions. So even if Rory from Doctor Who, or Edward from Twilight, or Snape from Harry Potter, or hundreds of other male cahracters can be said to be defined by their love for a woman, we know that male characters aren't as a rule.

The problem with sexism is that exactly what we do with women, and this is why we have these false notions that a woman can't be attached to a man or otherwise she's just fitting into the mold, ignoring the context of the story she is in. And the reason that Mikasa is a good feminist character, despite her being devoted to a man, that attribute is 1. Not put on any kind of pedestal and the more important 2. While Mikasa may be devoted to a man, this isn't a statement on women.

So if you want to compare Attack on Titan to Naruto, you can't just take Mikasa and Sakura, you have to take all female characters of both series and count how many are defined by their relationship with men in each. Out of the main characters, on Naruto's side, we have Sakura, Hinata, Ino, Tsunade. More if you start counting lesser characters. On the Attack on Titan, we have Mikasa. That's it. And Petra, if you want to stretch the definition of main character to the brink of it's breaking point.

Hange is primarily devoted to SCIENCE! and the dicey moral ethics resulting from that. Krista has major identity issues with her family that become major plot points later on. Annie who is devoted to her mission, and has mysterious motivations. Sasha is a street rat that has hunger issues that is devoloping into a warrior. Ymir has a lot more going on for her than love interest, but even if we ignore the other stuff, she's defined by her love towards another woman. So there's nothing wrong with Mikasa being devoted to Eren as she is, because Attack on Titan doesn't make her devotion isn't a 'woman' thing, it's a 'Mikasa' thing. She is literally the only character of her kind in this regard in the entire series.

To say nothing of the fact that the consequences of a singleminded devotion are treated with a lot of nuance is extremely important as well. This obsession that Mikasa is played in a number of ways. In some cases, it can be touching, because such a single minded passion is highly emotional, and a lot of people would like to have anyone care as much about them as Mikasa does about Eren. But at the same time, it's played comedically, with how Mikasa gets jealous and expresses it through violence (like the training ground with Annie). But then it's also sad and pathetic. When she thought Eren died, she lost the will to live. What kind of person is that, to have that little self agency and worth? But then it's also just flat out annoying. Levi and Jean both have to remind her that the fight they're fighting is bigger than just them and she can't just put Eren in front of the world. Seriously, compare the various degrees to which Mikasa's devotion is examined, and tell me how it compares to Naruto where it's played 99% for wangst, and (to my knowledge) how it's never really treated as the fucked up thing it is when Sasuke is so horrifically abusive.

Because Mikasa's devotion is treated with the complexity that befits it, it's good in some cases, bad in a lot of others. It is to say, this features isn't idealized or demonized. It just exists as part of her character, which defines her, yes, but not in a shallow way like in Naruto. It's a complex aspect of her identity that she is might be the core of who she is, but she's also someone whose growing beyond it, and has faced dilemma's concerning her devotion before. She understands that while Eren might be really important to her, he's not the only important thing to her, and she's not the only person with important things in the world. This makes Mikasa complex and believable as a fully developed human being. She's well written, in other words.

And that's what makes her a good feminist character.

And to make this post somewhat relevant to the topic, OP's women aren't often defined by men, I'll give them that. In fact, as far as Nami and Robin go, they're more defined by their mothers than anything. So I approve, but that doesn't mean they don't have a ton of other sexist issues in the series.

There is nothing complex about Mikasa saying she also defined by her duties does not make her complex .
Which by the way she join only because Eren was in there and no other reason .

 

[Veelk]

OK, let me ask you this: Why did Misaka join the corps in the first place? What was her goal in joining?

To be with Eren. Did you miss the part where I said "Growing beyond it?" What kind of logic is this, that you're excluding the future moments of character growth to argue that she's simply defined. By this logic, Nami is just a money hungry thief whose theiving tendencies have no motive or complexity beyond what was shown early in the manga. Isolate one character moment to the exclusion of others, and yeah, you have a shallow character, whatever series you're looking at.

Um

So, you do realize that this major part of her character still heavily revolves around Eren right?

Did you read my post where I said as much, but that doesn't mean that it's the only defining trait or that it, given the context of the series it's in, isn't even a bad thing?

There is nothing complex about Mikasa saying she also defined by her duties does not make her complex is a joke.

Well, I said my piece, and it's late, so I should go. Honestly, I don't know what I was expecting. I gave a multiple paragraph arguement. You replied with "Nu-uh, ur rong". Truly, I had no chance in this battle of wits. I'll take my leave now.

 

[Grexeno]

To be with Eren. Did you miss the part where I said "Growing beyond it?" What kind of logic is this, that you're excluding the future moments of character growth to argue that she's simply defined. By this logic, Nami is just a money hungry thief whose theiving tendencies have no motive or complexity beyond what was shown early in the manga. Isolate one character moment to the exclusion of others, and yeah, you have a shallow character, whatever series you're looking at.

Yes, all characters tend to be shallow when taken in complete isolation. Mikasa, however, has zero character when taken in complete isolation.

 

[B-Dubs]

To be with Eren. Did you miss the part where I said "Growing beyond it?" What kind of logic is this, that you're excluding the future moments of character growth to argue that she's simply defined. By this logic, Nami is just a money hungry thief whose theiving tendencies have no motive or complexity beyond what was shown early in the manga. Isolate one character moment to the exclusion of others, and yeah, you have a shallow character, whatever series you're looking at.



Did you read my post where I said as much, but that doesn't mean that it's the only defining trait or that it, given the context of the series it's in, isn't even a bad thing?

I'm not talking about her being shallow, she can be driven by her fanatical need to be with Eren and still have some substance. We just need to admit that she is driven by Eren above all else. If he decided to fuck off and live in a cabin in the woods for the rest of his days she'd join him in a heartbeat.

 

[Veelk]

I'm not talking about her being shallow, she can be driven by her fanatical need to be with Eren and still have some substance. We just need to admit that she is driven by Eren above all else. If he decided to fuck off and live in a cabin in the woods for the rest of his days she'd join him in a heartbeat.

She is driven by Eren above all else, but not to the exclusion of all else. The hypothetical situation you propose wouldn't happen, because Eren is too devoted to his own cause, but Mikasa has a more realistic view of that. If he decided to fuck off to the woods, he's be living with fucking titans then. Who would kill him. The early episode, where Mikasa thought Eren died, she shown that she'd survive beyond him. She internalized the lesson of survival beyond all means. Even if Eren had a safe place to go, there is still the titan problem, and she would want to ensure his safety beyond all doubt. Because there is no truly safe place, and she knows this.

So, no, I respectfully disagree. Mikasa is not Eren's dog. She does not just do everything he tells her to mindlessly. I don't know if she necessarily wouldn't go with him, but it wouldn't be as cut and dry as he says. She wouldn't willingly go to her death for him.

Yes, all characters tend to be shallow when taken in complete isolation. Mikasa, however, has zero character when taken in complete isolation.

That sentence doesn't even make logical sense!

Whatever. When I wrote that post, I didn't mean to say that Mikasa was an extremely complex character. But the fact is that her devotion is played to varying tones and scenes. The fact that it is is what complexity is, something that can't operates on multiple levels and can't be easily defined. I listed proof of this by listing events in that happened in the manga.

You refuse to accept the actual story scenes as evidence, then there's nothing to be said. When you refuse to look at the base material we are examining to see if the thing we're looking for is there, then there is no argument to be had because at this point, it's you insisting that something isn't there when I am literally pointing at it.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Well, I said my piece, and it's late, so I should go. Honestly, I don't know what I was expecting. I gave a multiple paragraph arguement. You replied with "Nu-uh, ur rong". Truly, I had no chance in this battle of wits. I'll take my leave now.

Doing a multiple paragraph argument does not change anything which also full of stuff i don't want to get into like other characters in AOT or Sakura .
I am talking about Mikasa alone and saying she complex because of her duties makes no sense.
Saying she has to be force not to following eren does not make her a more complex character .

EDIT also that eg you gave she decide to live on because she won't be able to remember eren anymore .

 

[B-Dubs]

She is driven by Eren above all else, but not to the exclusion of all else. The hypothetical situation you propose wouldn't happen, because Eren is too devoted to his own cause, but Mikasa has a more realistic view of that. If he decided to fuck off to the woods, he's be living with fucking titans then. Who would kill him. The early episode, where Mikasa thought Eren died, she shown that she'd survive beyond him. She internalized the lesson of survival beyond all means. Even if Eren had a safe place to go, there is still the titan problem, and she would want to ensure his safety beyond all doubt. Because there is no truly safe place, and she knows this.

So, no, I respectfully disagree. Mikasa is not Eren's dog. She does not just do everything he tells her to mindlessly. I don't know if she necessarily wouldn't go with him, but it wouldn't be as cut and dry as he says. She wouldn't willingly go to her death for him.

I never said half the stuff you say I did. All I said is that if he decided to leave the fight, he wouldn't but let's say he would for the argument, she would follow him. The only reason she's a part of this story is because of her relationship with him. The only reason she's fighting because of him, her love for him is the central pillar of her character and what drives her actions in the series. Her actions are driven by his.

Even in your response to me you give my argument credence, look at the bold. Your counter argument to my hypothetical literally plays into my larger argument about her character. Just because you don't want to see it doesn't make me wrong.

 

[Veelk]

Doing a multiple paragraph argument does not change anything which also full of stuff i don't want to get into like other characters in AOT or Sakura .
I am talking about Mikasa alone and saying she complex because of her duties makes no sense.
Saying she has to be force not to following eren does not make her a more complex character .

So you're argument continues to be 'nu-uh, ur rong' without actually backing it up with anything. As I said, I never stood a chance against your debate prowess.

As for the bolded, I literally never said that. I don't see a real discussion happening here, so I'm going to bed now, but if you want it to happen after I leave, try atleast reading *AND* comprehending the actual argument you are attempting to refute instead of the one you made up in your head.

I never said half the stuff you say I did. All I said is that if he decided to leave the fight, he wouldn't but let's say he would for the argument, she would follow him. The only reason she's a part of this story is because of her relationship with him. The only reason she's fighting because of him, her love for him is the central pillar of her character and what drives her actions in the series. Her actions are driven by his.

You said 'fuck off to a cabin in the woods', and the farmlands are overrun with Titans. I took to mean that you said Eren was committing suicide. Apparently, that's not what you meant, but hopefully you can understand my misunderstanding.

But my baseline sentence remains true: I respectfully disagree. Or rather, I disagree that the situation is like that to the extent you are describing it. The fact is she does care about others besides Eren. She cares about Armin. She's developed trust with Levi. The fact that recently it's been revealed that she shares her last name with him is going to play a major role in character development for her. I agree that Eren is Mikasa's central pillar, but he's not her only pillar. So if he suddenly decided that he's out....well, maybe, but it wouldn't be an easy decision for her. She wouldn't want to abandon her comrads. She wouldn't want to just leave. She'd be internally conflicted. And shallow characters do not get internally conflicted.

But this is all missing the main point here. The main point was getting at is sexism. Sexism can't be judged by a single isolated character alone because, by definition, it is something defined as the relationship between entire female populations and male populations. Even I agree that Mikasa is shallow and mindlessly devoted to Eren, that would not really make the AoT series sexist in the same way Naruto's was because 'devotion to a man' is not a way you can describe any other character in the entire series barring maybe Petra. For the most part, the devotion is a Mikasa trait, and it shouldn't be looked upon unfavorably in terms of feminism when Mikasa herself is being written as her own person rather than a representation for women, which is the entire point of feminism. Women want to be written as people, and people are varied, with thousands of motivations. Why shouldn't one of them be devotion to a male, as long as it's only one of hundreds?

Edit:

I do comprehend the argument.
In another one of post you said She internalized the lesson of survival beyond all means.

That is far from the truth the only reason she got back up and fight was because she said to her self if i die i can't remember eren .

You don't even comprehend how that wouldn't even be a contradiction to that argument, let alone the actual text on the screen.

Yeah, for real now, I'm out. This will just become a loop of me laughing as you struggle to form coherent sentences if I stay. Get back to me when you pass grade school reading comprehension.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

So you're argument continues to be 'nu-uh, ur rong' without actually backing it up with anything. As I said, I never stood a chance against your debate prowess.

As for the bolded, I literally never said that. I don't see a real discussion happening here, so I'm going to bed now, but if you want it to happen after I leave, try atleast reading *AND* comprehending the actual argument you are attempting to refute instead of the one you made up in your head.

I do comprehend the argument.
In another one of post you said She internalized the lesson of survival beyond all means.
That is far from the truth the only reason she got back up and fight was because she said to her self if i die i can't remember eren .
She did not get back up because she wanted to live on her own or because of her duty \ dreams \ goals but because of eren .

You don't even comprehend how that wouldn't even be a contradiction to that argument, let alone the actual text on the screen.

Yeah, for real now, I'm out. This will just become a loop of me laughing as you struggle to form coherent sentences if I stay. Get back to me when you pass grade school reading comprehension.

I understand the text on screen i just don't think it means or have the same effect as you do.
Don't see how that text show her main driving force is not eren.

EDIT just to be clear and this is my fault since i jump from one argument to the next .
I am not talking about her being complex in my last 2 post but what is her driving force is.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Oh I entered the wrong thread I was looking for the One Piece threa-


wait a second!

 

[IHaveIce]

Discuss the attack on titan shit somewhere else

 

[Nibel]

Discuss the attack on titan shit somewhere else

!

 

[Kater]

Gear 4th: One-Punch Man

You remind me that I should read some more of that manga. Read the first three chapters already. Guess I have some time now with the OP break next week.

 

[pelicansurf]

One Piece, am I right?

You guys should totally start a sexism in entertainment thread and post all this stuff there from now on!

Since like, it's getting cray; especially when Veelk gets involved. Gundam now seems like the Anti-Veelk, but with the same argument tendencies.

The lack of chapter is going to be rough.

 

[NHarmonic.]

i wonder if we'll see X-drake soon. I know currently there is no reason, but having him join the crew would give us an ex-marine, and his power would be cool for luffy (you know, who could hate dinosaurs? lol).

However if it's just for an arc i'd be happy too...

 

[Neoriceisgood]

One Piece, am I right?

You guys should totally start a sexism in entertainment thread and post all this stuff there from now on!

Have you seen what type of posting those general subject threads usually invite?

Much more fun to have these types of discussions within a topic actually about a specific serise like OP, because you'll get active readers/posters participating in the discussion rather than drive-by-posts with ideological one liners.


The big issue with the Mikasa discussion is that it clearly doesn't belong in the OP thread, should've gone in general manga or an actual topic about AoT.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I feel that if you go into recent One Piece expecting women to show exactly the same qualities of strength as male characters then you too quickly overlook how they are strong individual characters. Like Luffy and Zoro have done a lot of things recently so why are there not also female versions of Luffy and Zoro who are even stronger and get more panels. Except we still don't ever want to see them fail or get help because that would make them weak but also at the same time them being able to just overpower enemies makes them appear weak as well? This isn't that manga. Not sure anything can be.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I feel that if you go into recent One Piece expecting women to show exactly the same qualities of strength as male characters then you too quickly overlook how they are strong individual characters. Like Luffy and Zoro have done a lot of things recently so why are there not also female versions of Luffy and Zoro who are even stronger and get more panels. Except we still don't ever want to see them fail or get help because that would make them weak but also at the same time them being able to just overpower enemies makes them appear weak as well? This isn't that manga. Not sure anything can be.

Which isn't what anyone seems to be arguing for.

I would've been fine if we had at least gotten a decent Robin fight. Failure itself isn't a problem.

 

[Lunar15]

Man, this one went off on a weird tangent.

This is why I said it's more productive to discuss everything from a standpoint of pacing and structure: it'd go a long way to solving multiple people's issues. More time to develop characters (not just the crew!) = less time relying tropes like crying girl asking luffy for help. It's not the fact that these tropes exist that's uncomfortable, it's that they're being repeated.

I would strongly doubt that most fans reading this thread would say they disliked the scene in Arlong Park where Nami asks luffy to help her, or the part where Robin cries saying she wants to live. Both of those are beautiful moments that are high marks in the series. But they also had a wealth of context leading up to those exact moments. Everyone can empathize with those tears because everything is coming to a thematic climax. These are two people who never asked for help because they never thought anyone could help them. Ace has an extremely similar moment. The moment with Rebecca in this previous chapter is a little more disappointing than those because she's technically already had her emotional realization, when her father comes back and saves her from Diamante. Her appearing now and screaming for help seems less like a thematic climax and more like an additional emotional hook. When you reduce a woman crying for help down to essentially a gimmick, it's going to be slightly uncomfortable for some people.

But you know, even in my last few negative posts, I still want to emphasize that I do like this arc. I think it's just that pacing issues and such glare more when I really do like what's going on. One Piece is still fucking great, it's just that it'd be nice if some things were a little better, that's all.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Man, this one went off on a weird tangent.

This is why I said it's more productive to discuss everything from a standpoint of pacing and structure: it'd go a long way to solving multiple people's issues. More time to develop characters (not just the crew!) = less time relying tropes like crying girl asking luffy for help. It's not the fact that these tropes exist that's uncomfortable, it's that they're being repeated.

But you know, even in my last few negative posts, I still want to emphasize that I do like this arc. I think it's just that pacing issues and such glare more when I really do like what's going on. One Piece is still fucking great, it's just that it'd be nice if some things were a little better, that's all.

Oh I agree, I wouldn't waste my time complaining about something I didn't love. Otherwise I'd be filling the Bleach, Naruto or FT threads with my righteous rage.

 

[BatDan]

This is still an excellent arc.Doflamingo is an amazing villain.

Let's not forget that a big part of the pacing issues stem from Shueisha forcing breaks on Oda so he doesn't end up in the hospital again. Things get good... then week off. Things get good... then week off. It doesn't help that this is officially One Piece's longest arc (unless you count Water 7 and Enies Lobby as one arc instead of two)

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Which isn't what anyone seems to be arguing for.

I would've been fine if we had at least gotten a decent Robin fight. Failure itself isn't a problem.

But what is a decent fight? Is it worth ignoring how she acted in this arc and how her character has developed because she didn't defeat Diamanté on her own?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

But what is a decent fight? Is it worth ignoring how she acted in this arc and how her character has developed because she didn't defeat Diamanté on her own?

I have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously, what?


Robin doesn't have a reputation for demanding to defeat enemies by herself, what on earth "Developed" by her standing back in that fight?

 

[BatDan]

Does Fairy Tail even have a dedicated thread? Do enough people care?

According to the One Piece wiki, these are the longest arcs.

Dressrosa: 89 (and counting)
Skypiea: 66
Alabasta: 63
Enies Lobby: 56
Water 7: 53
Fishman Island: 51
Thriller Bark: 48
Punk Hazard: 46

I guess another part of the Dressrosa fatigue is that it's a continuation of Punk Hazard, which itself was a fairly long arc.

 

[Grexeno]

Remember that Dressrosa is only the middle arc of an even larger saga.

 

[Lunar15]

I could go on and on about the things I liked in this arc, there's so many individual moments that shine. I mean, I complained about the fact that there were too many flashbacks, but they were AMAZING flashbacks. Law's flashback is one of my favorite ever, and Kyros' flashback was also pretty great. And as much as I complain about having too many characters, all the new fighters he introduced in the arena have been pretty hilarious. He does put effort into making every character he introduces stand out, and that's awesome. Godsopp is still probably one of my favorite jokes in the entire series, and the build up to that moment was classic Oda. And of course, Doflamingo has been a crazy good antagonist, his backstory was perfect.

I also like the way Oda handled Law and Luffy's relationship, considering a lot of people were afraid Law would be a bit of a mary sue and hog the spotlight from Luffy. How the two have worked together has been brilliant, I've loved every second of it.

As others have said, it's definitely an arc that works better in bulk form. There's just so much stuff that when it flips around week to week, it can get really frustrating.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I could go on and on about the things I liked in this arc, there's so many individual moments that shine. I mean, I complained about the fact that there were too many flashbacks, but they were AMAZING flashbacks. Law's flashback is one of my favorite ever, and Kyros' flashback was also pretty great. And as much as I complain about having too many characters, all the new fighters he introduced in the arena have been pretty hilarious. He does put effort into making every character he introduces stand out, and that's awesome. Godsopp is still probably one of my favorite jokes in the entire series, and the build up to that moment was classic Oda. And of course, Doflamingo has been a crazy good antagonist, his backstory was perfect.

I also like the way Oda handled Law and Luffy's relationship, considering a lot of people were afraid Law would be a bit of a mary sue and hog the spotlight from Luffy. How the two have worked together has been brilliant, I've loved every second of it.

As others have said, it's definitely an arc that works better in bulk form. There's just so much stuff that when it flips around week to week, it can get really frustrating.

I actually find it really interesting that prior to gear 4th Law got a lot more damage from the Don, but he's also the only one to actually do damage to him.

It makes Law feel a lot more like a glass cannon v.s. Luffy's speedy fighting style.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I actually find it really interesting that prior to gear 4th Law got a lot more damage from the Don, but he's also the only one to actually do damage to him.

It makes Law feel a lot more like a glass cannon v.s. Luffy's speedy fighting style.

I remember people saying how broken law is because his whole DF and fighting style base around OHKO moves.
So it was interesting to see how Don even with law great DF beat him rather easy .
And it was from mostly just from being faster and physical over powering law .

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I remember people saying how broken law is because his whole DF and fighting style base around OHKO moves.
So it was interesting to see how Don even with law great DF beat him rather easy .

Well just like Doflamingo's parasite, a lot of Law's more powerful KO moves don't seem to work well on particularly powerful/competent opponents.


When it came to something like just a basic marine he could switch their head around with a bomb and ridiculous stuff like that.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Well just like Doflamingo's parasite, a lot of Law's more powerful KO moves don't seem to work well on particularly powerful/competent opponents.


When it came to something like just a basic marine he could switch their head around with a bomb and ridiculous stuff like that.

Yep at one point in time don just hold law sword with his haki hand which was awesome.
It was great to see such a broken character destroy IMO

 

[VariantX]

God, I'm glad this arc is finally coming to an end within the next few chapters. I don't dislike this arc by any means, I actually love it, but I just want to move the story forward. Wheres the rest of the straw hat crew and what are they dealing with? We met Issho, who is the other new Admiral and what can he do? When do we finally set foot in Wano Kingdom? What kind of beast is Kaido that someone like Donquixote Doflamingo has to be wary of him and can go toe to toe with the likes of Whitebeard? When's Jimbei? How the hell did blackbeard steal whitebeard's power and what the hell makes burgess think he could steal Luffy's too? So many questions, so much more hype.

 

[BatDan]

And of course... is there a Gear Fifth?

It's also possible Gear Fourth has multiple forms. Luffy specified Bounceman, something he hasn't done with Second or Third.

 

[Grexeno]

And of course... is there a Gear Fifth?

There's definitely a Gear Fifth. Gear Fourth barely cut it against Doflamingo.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

There's definitely a Gear Fifth. Gear Fourth barely cut it against Doflamingo.

Nah gear 4 was over powering don it just that he run out of time.
It going to be interesting when he can go in and out of it like gear 2 and 3 easy .

 

[MrSaturn99]

I could go on and on about the things I liked in this arc, there's so many individual moments that shine. I mean, I complained about the fact that there were too many flashbacks, but they were AMAZING flashbacks. Law's flashback is one of my favorite ever, and Kyros' flashback was also pretty great. And as much as I complain about having too many characters, all the new fighters he introduced in the arena have been pretty hilarious. He does put effort into making every character he introduces stand out, and that's awesome. Godsopp is still probably one of my favorite jokes in the entire series, and the build up to that moment was classic Oda. And of course, Doflamingo has been a crazy good antagonist, his backstory was perfect.

I also like the way Oda handled Law and Luffy's relationship, considering a lot of people were afraid Law would be a bit of a mary sue and hog the spotlight from Luffy. How the two have worked together has been brilliant, I've loved every second of it.

As others have said, it's definitely an arc that works better in bulk form. There's just so much stuff that when it flips around week to week, it can get really frustrating.

Pretty much how I feel. Oda definitely had too many ideas for Dressrosa but the way most of them have individually contributed to the overall arc/theme is incredible. The dwarves are maybe the only thing I feel that could've been saved for another arc, although I wonder if the Usoland/God Usopp joke would've lost impact (or in the case of the former, exist).

If I was Oda's editor I'd just tell him to chill with the pacing/jumping around. Stuff like the Coliseum fighters and Sabo are GREAT but then you have other factors like Diamante (at the very least, his conflict with Rebecca) or Jiolla that get kinda shafted with the quirky pacing.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

And of course... is there a Gear Fifth?

It's also possible Gear Fourth has multiple forms. Luffy specified Bounceman, something he hasn't done with Second or Third.

If Gear Fourth has multiple models I dont see a need for a Gear Fifth

 

[Welfare]

If Gear Fourth has multiple models I dont see a need for a Gear Fifth

Gear Fifth will be his Awakening.

 

[jstripes]

So, is this arc finally almost over?

I'd like to learn more about those story stones Robin is looking for. I forget what they're called.

 

[BatDan]

So, is this arc finally almost over?

I'd like to learn more about those story stones Robin is looking for. I forget what they're called.

The Poneglyphs
Jinbe's cover story had him find one.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Pretty much how I feel. Oda definitely had too many ideas for Dressrosa but the way most of them have individually contributed to the overall arc/theme is incredible. The dwarves are maybe the only thing I feel that could've been saved for another arc, although I wonder if the Usoland/God Usopp joke would've lost impact (or in the case of the former, exist).

If I was Oda's editor I'd just tell him to chill with the pacing/jumping around. Stuff like the Coliseum fighters and Sabo are GREAT but then you have other factors like Diamante (at the very least, his conflict with Rebecca) or Jiolla that get kinda shafted with the quirky pacing.

You guys have remember that the editor and pacing also take into account the vols.
Vol sales are where the money is .
If weekly pacing seem screw up even more so with oda taking breaks but vol pacing is good i don't think it going to bother them to much.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

So, is this arc finally almost over?

Like I said, I doubt it. CP0 and Big Mam are still hanging about and who knows what Fujitora will do. Although he will probably be like Aokiji or Smoker and hesitantly let the Strawhats off.

 

[BatDan]

I think CP0 left the island before the Bird Cage started.
They haven't been seen since, and considering how close the Bird Cage is now, it's nigh-impossible that they're hiding.