pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Complaining about Oda's lack of female battle treatment is getting super old. It'll happen if it happens.
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One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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NHarmonic.
Member
Nami's fights were amazing. Probably there was lots of pseudo-science involved but using the weather to create attacks and defenses was really creative and interesting.
The discussion was never that Nami was badlly written per se. I would agree that she's about as well written as any other OP character, but that doesn't change the fact that she or other women don't have much going for them in terms of empowerment. Yeah, you can argue that she's useful, what with her exposition about what the hell is going on. But that's like arguing Q is an empowered character just because James Bond would have a harder time if he weren't given all sorts of fancy gadgets by him. Useful sure, characterized yeah, but the empowerment goes to someone else.
That's the real problem with convincing people of sexism. It's difficult to prove that it makes the product in which its present worse. You can write a fairly characterized female character while keeping her firmly in the kitchen without disapproval of the stereotype. It's just a matter of fleshing out the stereotype. OP would be a better manga if it had more empowered female characters on the battlefield, but it's difficult to prove that when detractors from the idea have the OP as it is and argue that it's already good and a hypothetical OP with better female representation is hypothetical and can't be provided for as evidence. It's not something you really notice until you see it actually there, and lack of it isn't something that is bad by typical measures of writing.
Exactly. She works better behind the scenes.
Having support members is an important part of an RPG cast. Having all Warriors and no Mages is detrimental.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I was mostly responding to the person claiming Nami is the worst written character in all of OP.
I don't disagree with your views on this, Nami still doesn't escape OP's larger unfortunate tropes & writing.
Absolutely. But she is still powerful. She dealt with Hakuba very convincingly.
Robin is extremely powerful, but her calm personality and her backstory show us that she really doesn´t like direct confrontations, that is also what made her a great assassin and made her survive all those years until meeting the strawhats.
Hell, remember how she almost One-Shot Gecko Moria? If it wasn´t because of his Shadow ability, he would have been dead. Snap.
Hell, remember how she almost One-Shot Gecko Moria? If it wasn´t because of his Shadow ability, he would have been dead. Snap.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Robin doesn't fight much because it's hard to write fights that she can lose.
Her devil fruit ability is really broken. The last one-on-one matchup she had was in Skypiea... the first arc after she joined.
Her devil fruit ability is really broken. The last one-on-one matchup she had was in Skypiea... the first arc after she joined.
More Fun To Compute
Member
No matter how shameful Robin seems to us now she will always be a hero to Koala.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Yeah, her natural opponent would be a logia, which she would straight up lose to unless she found their elemental weakness or until she learns armament Haki and it then becomes a curb stomp.
mrmickfran
Member
Camie
Don't all the crew lack empowerment? Isn't that kind of what happens when someone decides to follow rather than lead? Especially when they are following such a willful and charismatic captain such as Luffy? I guess I don't see it. Can someone tell me how say Sanji is more empowered than Nami? He probably gets more fights (although it's been over a year since either fought, so who knows). If anything Nami probably has the most empowerment as she is best at convincing Lufy to change his course (not that he is very amenable).
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
The people arguing for sexism in One Piece literally think Empowerment = # of fights. If you go by any other metric, most of the females in the series are just as driven, charismatic, and multi-dimensional as any of the men.
Camie
Bonney Maybe?
Cloud Strife
Member
I always imagine her fighting someone who can anticipate her attacks and damage her limbs.
Might be a good way for Oda to flesh out her powers and limitations which he haven't really had yet.
NHarmonic.
Member
I'm pretty sure Oda can do this if he wants. The versatility of Robin's fruit is a key point for fights, i mean she can even fly with it. I agree that she fits on the "support role" but personally her fight on Skypiea was cool, it even came with badass panels like:
(Love the drawing style on this panels, btw. So good)
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Would be a nice inverse of the Impel Down -> Marineford situation, where we basically didn't see the crew for a few arcs.
Cloud Strife
Member
Yeah, Luffy got his semi-all-out fight, so give everyone else theirs already!
I think a lot of these conversations are particularly weird because I feel like they didn't really used to exist. Sure, there were some minor things here and there, but there definitely was a turning point in Oda's work where it became immensely more noticable. That's what makes it such a weird subject, because it's not like we're just dealing with a writer who only ever used certain tropes. We're talking about a comic that people felt pretty comfortable about championing against this kind of stuff at one point.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
The problem isn't the number of fights. It's the clear gender division on who gets to fight. It's fine if Robin doesn't get many fights (though I think the fanbase agrees that everyone wants to see another full 1v1 for her after so long). She's generally a strong female character throughout the series and she shows her strength through her supporting roles. The problem only became sexist after the timeskip when Oda started the trend of only males getting fights. It was ridiculous when ALL THE GUYS got fights in Fishman Island but none of the females did. And that trend has continued as the males have dominated all the fights ever since. Before the timeskip, it was usually Usopp and Robin that refrained from fights, which worked. But only Nami and Robin refraining from fights is what causes the sexism angle, especially with the other worrisome elements present since the timeskip. It presents the idea that only males want to fight while female characters will avoid it at all costs just because they are female (e.g. count the characters who have been shown avoiding, running, hiding or changing sides rather than engage in a full fight: Nami, Shirahoshi, Bonney, Baby5, Viola, Rebecca, etc.)
And that's why Robin in particular gets complaints about sexism. While the other characters can be explained away with "that's just their personality", we all know Robin would crack a few spines without hesitation. She's the one the fanbase puts in its hopes to be the fighter so that this sexist trend isn't present. But she doesn't (for good story reasons) but it still leaves the series without a female character with the will to fight. Which leaves the only female characters since the timeskip to willingly jump to the fray as Tashigi and Monet, which had it's own set of problems. And when you are placing your hopes on Tashigi, it's never going to turn out well.
Oda doesn't care about fights anymore. Luffy vs Doflamingo had more chapters dedicated to Luffy getting his haki back than exchanging punches. All Doflamingo family members got one chapter dedicated to each of them and that was it. Were fights that short before the time skip, I don't remember. Heh
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
People forget Luffy vs. Arlong was a one stage fight that consisted of Luffy curbstomping Arlong and destroying his house.
I liked his fight against Enel, because once Enel realized that Luffy could basically destroy him, it became less of "Luffy vs. Guy" and more of "Guy does everything he can to keep Luffy away from him". It also showed how Enel came to be the strongest warrior on his island even without the Goro Goro Fruit, because once Luffy started smacking him around he reverted to using his bo staff and tactical fighting (encasing his arm in gold and throwing him off of Maxim). Skypiea was such an interesting arc.
I liked his fight against Enel, because once Enel realized that Luffy could basically destroy him, it became less of "Luffy vs. Guy" and more of "Guy does everything he can to keep Luffy away from him". It also showed how Enel came to be the strongest warrior on his island even without the Goro Goro Fruit, because once Luffy started smacking him around he reverted to using his bo staff and tactical fighting (encasing his arm in gold and throwing him off of Maxim). Skypiea was such an interesting arc.
Sanji, Brook, Nami and Chopper and supposedly in Wano, where there are Kaido's people, aren't they?
I wonder if there's some kind of hierarchy in Kaido's organization that'd lead to interesting fights equally shared among crew members so to break that male/female fight ratio inequality. (kudos to them if they're 1v1 fights)
I wonder if there's some kind of hierarchy in Kaido's organization that'd lead to interesting fights equally shared among crew members so to break that male/female fight ratio inequality. (kudos to them if they're 1v1 fights)
I kinda do I guess? Tashigi is one of my favorite characters in the series and it was a bit frustrating to see how she was handled during Punk Hazard. I had hoped she could beat Mozet without Zoro's help but she couldn't. Granted Zoro didn't completely save her since she got her shoulder bitten rather painfully. I mean I'm disappointed but at the same time a bit grateful that Oda didn't let Zoro save Tashigi from getting any damage. I think it serves as experience for Tashigi to get stronger after getting beat by Monet, Vergo and Law. There has to be a reason Oda breaks Tashigi numerous times in the manga more than any other female right?
As for Robin, I really hope she gets a 1v1 fight soon. Her actions in Dressrosa were impressive but I really want her to see how she engages in a direct conflict after the timeskip even if she's best as support.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Wano is the Samurai Island that is supposed to be a dangerous enough that pirates and marines don't mess with it. We don't know who is there but possibly Jewelry Bonney is there.
Zo/Zou or whatever is the island that they were going to meet at with all the crew and Bepo.
The way Kaidou is built up it's unlikely that the strawhats could take him on alone with 1v1 fights. It would probably be another "war" arc but closer to Marineford than Dressrosa.
Eh, I don't need fights. Depending on the fight, they can sometimes be the most boring part One Piece. When they're good they're good, but it's more about the emotional impact during them that really gets me excited.
I think the main thing, as I've always said, is that I'd prefer for Oda to just slow down on all the external characters and focus on the crew a bit. I think that easily solves almost all of our problems.
I think the main thing, as I've always said, is that I'd prefer for Oda to just slow down on all the external characters and focus on the crew a bit. I think that easily solves almost all of our problems.
Let's agree that they were introducing almost every colloseum fighter in the tournament, there was even a panel filled with them.
That's the wheel that keeps spinning: Instead of getting more panel time for crew members, historical events and plot there's more and more new characters being introduced.
That's the wheel that keeps spinning: Instead of getting more panel time for crew members, historical events and plot there's more and more new characters being introduced.
I think the reason is simple, she's not Kuina. Only characters with back stories get any serious development time.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Tashigi is still 100x better than the average person in the OP world. I was really surprised she did as much as she did in her fight with Monet. Post-timeskip was more kind to her than it was to Robin or Nami.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
SBS stuff like that is mostly joke stuff though.Reading the wiki, it seems Momousagi was in the running to become an Admiral... I wish she did.
Edit: Double post, sorry
Just like Whitebeard's dog.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Personally I can't wait for the reveal of that final shichibukai.
I personally wonder whether it's a known character or someone entirely new.
Frozenprince
Banned
My money is on a known lesser character.
Maybe Momonga?
Looks kinda like Carl from Aqua Teen.
why would momonga quit being a vice admiral and become a pirate just so he can be a shichibukaiMy money is on a known lesser character.
Maybe Momonga?
Looks kinda like Carl from Aqua Teen.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Is that a slice of pizza with a soul patch?Personally I can't wait for the reveal of that final shichibukai.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
"I ate the pizza-pizza fruit. Now I am a Pizza Man!"
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