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One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!

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Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Like I told Tathanen, if you disagree and choose to do otherwise, that's your perogative, but I think you're missing out and it means is that we have nothing to talk about.

Just to be clear, I do enjoy thinking analytically. I'll analyze the hell out of the things I enjoy, I will tear them to pieces and wring them dry. I just do not enjoy thinking critically about them. It's the evaluative process that generally does not interest me, with a few marked exceptions. My gut reaction is usually plenty for me in that regard.
 
I think about everything I read critically, yes. I consume a lot of things as well. Some more than others, but I make an effort with everything. I've looked at other aspects of OP here too, how Haki works was a recent discussion a while back with Imperial Bishop. As I said, I always found thinking critically about things to be far more rewarding than not doing so.

Like I told Tathanen, if you disagree and choose to do otherwise, that's your perogative, and all it means is that we have nothing to talk about. I engage things critically, so if you're not gonna do that, there's...just nothing to discuss. I don't go in for circle jerks of "FUCK YEA, LUFFY, PUNCH THE SHIT OUT OF THAT BAD GUY"

I am sorry but this whole idea that you think critically is bullshit .
You can not disconnect a story from the real world culture , demographics and commercialization .
Certain aspect of the story are that way because of them and there is no deeper meaning to it .
Now you don't have to like them or agree with them but they not going to change .
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
Pretty sure there's several aspects of the series that Oda put in just because he thought it was cool.
 
Just to be clear, I do enjoy thinking analytically. I'll analyze the hell out of the things I enjoy, I will tear them to pieces and wring them dry. I just do not enjoy thinking critically about them. It's the evaluative process that generally does not interest me, with a few marked exceptions. My gut reaction is usually plenty for me in that regard.

I agree .

Pretty sure there's several aspects of the series that Oda put in just because he thought it was cool.

Which goes back to what he said .
He writes stuff that he thinks teenage boys will find cool .
Of course there are aspect of that female going to like for eg the number shirtless guys in OP .
 

Veelk

Banned
These are the two things I can't understand about you.

While realizing that a majority of posters in here disagree with you and have no contention of speaking with you, why do you continue?

The second bit I highlighted makes it seem like you have some sort of duty to point out these flaws to the posters in here. And that's fine that you think that way (I think), but you mentioned masochism earlier so is that it?

You get some kind of high or pleasure from people constantly arguing with you and disagreeing with you?

Honestly speaking, I'm fascinated.

I've wondered this about myself often too. It's hard to explain because I know most people aren't like this. Most people are just looking to 'win' arguments, show off their knowledge, or whatevber. Like I said before, this is not an ego thing for me. It's not like I sit here thinking "Hahaha, look how I am mentally dominating you all". Like I told Tathanen in either that post, or one above it, I try to hunt for the truth of things, for lack of a better word. An argument, to me, isn't a fight, it's an exploration.

To discern truth, I use argumentative techniques and engage with others. But I hunt it for myself. If I go into a conversation, feel I've completely refuted someone's arguments, but learned nothing, I guess that's good practice, but it's mostly just a matter of keeping my wits sharp, not gaining anything. What I look for is perspectives I haven't considered, and then I put pressure on them to see if they crack. If they don't, that's when I get really happy. It doesn't matter to me whether or not I agree with it, it's a new way of understanding things, and it works. It's obviously a case of diminishing returns, but you eventually find something new, or even rediscover a perspective you've forgotten or just leaned too far away from. I don't care about 'winning' a debate, I care about finding out how things actually are, how people think, etc. That's why I read fiction too.
 

Seda

Member
Hey hello,

I've been asked to 'halp' this thread a bit as it seems things have gotten kinda sloppy. I'll try to keep this brief but feel free to ask questions if you have 'em. First of all, while I've spent some time surveying the thread I do /not/ have the full picture, of course, and for that I apologize in advance.

From what I can tell there's been plenty of discussion about One Piece and characters/gender/fanservice, and while several good points have been made over the last many days (and I mean that), it's become circular, with a hint of meta-discussion & preaching to the choir, and with no quick end in sight. There are some good conversations certainly about how the series has changed over time, the role of characters, etc, but it's become stretched.

The thing is, this is a community thread, and you have to be respectful of the 'time' of others in the community. Many people have had enough of this conversation and would rather discuss something else with the ongoing story. That doesn't mean they support sexist views or hate feminist criticism or anything! Not everybody have the interest or devout curiosity to criticize these elements to the same degree.

If this were the topic of a thread, then of course we'd ask people who 'aren't interested' to not post. But that can't be the case for a community thread, which can have several discussions on a wide variety of topics pertaining to the media. From what I've seen, the particular discussion has become stale and tired, and it's not much productive anymore.

So please, let's just drop that tangent here for now.
 
I've wondered this about myself often too. It's hard to explain because I know most people aren't like this. Most people are just looking to 'win' arguments, show off their knowledge, or whatevber. Like I said before, this is not an ego thing for me. It's not like I sit here thinking "Hahaha, look how I am mentally dominating you all". Like I told Tathanen in either that post, or one above it, I try to hunt for the truth of things, for lack of a better word. An argument, to me, isn't a fight, it's an exploration.

To discern truth, I use argumentative techniques and engage with others. But I hunt it for myself. If I go into a conversation, feel I've completely refuted someone's arguments, but learned nothing, I guess that's good practice, but it's mostly just a matter of keeping my wits sharp, not gaining anything. What I look for is perspectives I haven't considered, and then I put pressure on them to see if they crack. If they don't, that's when I get really happy. It doesn't matter to me whether or not I agree with it, it's a new way of understanding things, and it works. It's obviously a case of diminishing returns, but you eventually find something new, or even rediscover a perspective you've forgotten or just leaned too far away from. I don't care about 'winning' a debate, I care about finding out how things actually are, how people think, etc. That's why I read fiction too.
Thanks for this post, I have a friend like this so I was just wondering where you were coming from.

Hey hello,

I've been asked to 'halp' this thread a bit as it seems things have gotten kinda sloppy. I'll try to keep this brief but feel free to ask questions if you have 'em. First of all, while I've spent some time surveying the thread I do /not/ have the full picture, of course, and for that I apologize in advance.

From what I can tell there's been plenty of discussion about One Piece and characters/gender/fanservice, and while several good points have been made over the last many days (and I mean that), it's become circular, with a hint of meta-discussion & preaching to the choir, and with no quick end in sight. There are some good conversations certainly about how the series has changed over time, the role of characters, etc, but it's become stretched.

The thing is, this is a community thread, and you have to be respectful of the 'time' of others in the community. Many people have had enough of this conversation and would rather discuss something else with the ongoing story. That doesn't mean they support sexist views or hate feminist criticism or anything! Not everybody have the interest or devout curiosity to criticize these elements to the same degree.

If this were the topic of a thread, then of course we'd ask people who 'aren't interested' to not post. But that can't be the case for a community thread, which can have several discussions on a wide variety of topics pertaining to the media. From what I've seen, the particular discussion has become stale and tired, and it's not much productive anymore.

So please, let's just drop that tangent here for now.
Thanks Seda.
 
Hey hello,

I've been asked to 'halp' this thread a bit as it seems things have gotten kinda sloppy. I'll try to keep this brief but feel free to ask questions if you have 'em. First of all, while I've spent some time surveying the thread I do /not/ have the full picture, of course, and for that I apologize in advance.

From what I can tell there's been plenty of discussion about One Piece and characters/gender/fanservice, and while several good points have been made over the last many days (and I mean that), it's become circular, with a hint of meta-discussion & preaching to the choir, and with no quick end in sight. There are some good conversations certainly about how the series has changed over time, the role of characters, etc, but it's become stretched.

The thing is, this is a community thread, and you have to be respectful of the 'time' of others in the community. Many people have had enough of this conversation and would rather discuss something else with the ongoing story. That doesn't mean they support sexist views or hate feminist criticism or anything! Not everybody have the interest or devout curiosity to criticize these elements to the same degree.

If this were the topic of a thread, then of course we'd ask people who 'aren't interested' to not post. But that can't be the case for a community thread, which can have several discussions on a wide variety of topics pertaining to the media. From what I've seen, the particular discussion has become stale and tired, and it's not much productive anymore.

So please, let's just drop that tangent here for now.
Welp there it is..So how about those 5600 strawhats.
 
Isn't that the only reason Zoro can cut anything?

I wonder if we ever going to get to see Zoro cut diamond .
Which would be a nice throw back to AB.
Also i don't think we have seen him cut sea stone either .

Welp there it is..So how about those 5600 strawhats.

It going to be interesting to see how Oda deals with them.
Is he going to give us updates of them during arcs or afterwards , will he have them on the cover story doing stuff .
When he will use them or how much of them et etc .
 

Seda

Member
Will do, just one question: Am I the only one not allowed to discuss this further, or does this apply to everyone?

Well, in a sense, everyone, but this isn't, like, a hard ban until the end of time or anything like that. It's simply been a dominating topic for a while now and more and more people seem to be less and less interested in participating - especially as it becomes less about One Piece and more about fictional criticism in general.

So, let's just let things cool off for now.
 

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
I wonder if we ever going to get to see Zoro cut diamond .
Which would be a nice throw back to AB.
Also i don't think we have seen him cut season either .
He'd have to get into a fight with the Whitebeard pirates to get an opportunity to try. Jozu all day.

Also, I feel like a lot of what people create for media is usually really well though out, but there are totally many moments where things happen because it is damn cool and nothing more.
 

Veelk

Banned
Well, in a sense, everyone, but this isn't, like, a hard ban until the end of time or anything like that. It's simply been a dominating topic for a while now and more and more people seem to be less and less interested in participating - especially as it becomes less about One Piece and more about fictional criticism in general.

So, let's just let things cool off for now.

I only ask because 3 of the last 4 turns of discussion towards it on the thread haven't been due to me, and I merely was merely responding to posts that were already remarking on it. If the topic comes up naturally again and I respond to it, I don't want to be singled out for it being back on the table.
 
A nuanced, well articulated engagement of the topic? Surely, this is a dream.

But seriously, I can agree with pretty much all of that. I am not all that familiar with Japans customs, outside the generalities of some of the stuff you mentioned. I know there are some feminists groups there, but they are scarce like usual. Still, it brings up a good point that social change is never drastic. It's always baby steps. I don't really find it believable with Nami, given her fanservice proclivity and being a teenage girl, but it would fit totally Robins character to be disinterested in any romantic situation, I think. It's an aspect I hadn't considered as strongly as the others. Thank you.

I didn't bring this up in my original post, as it's purely anecdotal, but that same friend who I referenced lives in Japan currently (she's American) and worked at bar for a while. She discussed the series a lot with the patrons of the bar, as, from what she made it sound, following and discussing One Piece there is the equivalent of "water cooler" talk in the US where people will talk about trending shows. Anyway, she frequently brought up her frustration with the fact that Robin doesn't gets fights, and was especially frustrated when she didn't get a fight with Diamante, and the response from the men (and, from what she tells me, the women as well) was almost universally "Why would you ever want Robin to fight? No, she should stay off to the side". Like I said, it's not hard data or anything, but I feel that Oda is often restricted to write for what Japanese society expects of women, and does try his best to at least give women more of a purpose than what would normally be expected of someone in his position.

In regards to the mass amounts of scantily clad women viewed with a male gaze, I think the reason I can generally forgive or ignore it because men are generally given the same view. I'm not referring to the tired "Well men get objectified as much as women" argument, where in actuality those ripped and muscly men are still viewed with a male gaze as being a power fantasy. I think Oda realizes how much pull women have with One Piece as much as men, and a lot of the marketing pushes for One Piece recently have been with more of a female gaze. I've seen people express exasperation over the recent focus on "3 Brothers" with most things One Piece these days (like the recent PS4 game just announced, or the Episode of Sabo they did for the anime). Trust me on this, it's ALL for the fangirls.

Again, this is entirely anecdotal, but recently I took a vacation to Japan (I'm American as well) this summer and had an opportunity to go to the Universal Studios Japan live show for One Piece that they do every year. This year's show was also focused on 3 Brothers. My friend (who has far more experience with Japanese than I do) managed to get us reserved seats online, so we were right up in the second row. I noticed that I was one of, if not the only, guys who was this far up. End of the show, I understood why, as the actors go around in the crowd and high five the people in the stands. The girls were practically TACKLING one another to get to Ace and Sabo. I think Oda knows exactly who those two (and Law; trust me on this one) appeal to.

So, I dunno, I do hate to use the tired argument of "Men and women are sexualized equally", I think it does applies to One Piece to an extent. I actually think that's one of the strengths of the series; it's able to appeal to the lowest common denominator with it's blatant sex appeal (to both men and women!) and low brow humor, but also manages to subvert some of this in the process (like how I attempted to detail in my last post) in order to hopefully expand some people's notions of gender roles. It's not perfect, as I think Oda's own sexual tastes get in the way a little too much (I don't mind Nami wanting to dress sexy, as it was always a progression of her character seeing as how she associates clothes with wealth, but the parade of bikini tops have been much), but I appreciate his efforts.

Edit- er, sorry, I was writing this post before Seda came in and requested we not discuss this anymore. I'll drop it.
 

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
I only ask because 3 of the last 4 turns of discussion towards it on the thread haven't been due to me, and I merely was merely responding to posts that were already remarking on it. If the topic comes up naturally again and I respond to it, I don't want to be singled out for it being back on the table.
I think it's if you see something related to Nami or Robin, not to be chomping at the bit to get back into the vicious OP sexism cycle.

Also, lol at the above post.
 
Just to be clear, I do enjoy thinking analytically. I'll analyze the hell out of the things I enjoy, I will tear them to pieces and wring them dry. I just do not enjoy thinking critically about them. It's the evaluative process that generally does not interest me, with a few marked exceptions. My gut reaction is usually plenty for me in that regard.

I know this was directed at a specific person but I actually find this funny since I'm the complete opposite. I have no issue being critical about anything yet when it comes to analyzing something from a compartmentalized perspective I just can't.
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Edit- er, sorry, I was writing this post before Seda came in and requested we not discuss this anymore. I'll drop it.

Insightful post anyway! That's interesting to hear about the brothers, I think some people have suggested that as well in the past.

I know this was directed at a specific person but I actually find this funny since I'm the complete opposite. I have no issue being critical about anything yet when it comes to analyzing something from a compartmentalized perspective I just can't.

Wacky!!!
 
Any of ya'll collect figures here? Got Sabo and Koala on the way. Glad to see my faith in Sabo returning rewarded.

One Piece has actually gotten me into figure collecting. Friend of mine has been getting me Portrait of Pirate figures as birthday and Christmas presents for the past couple of years, and now I've built up a collection of them. I've been given Smoker, timeskip Usopp, timeskip Brooke, and, the crown jewel of my collection, Alabasta-era Bon Clay as gifts, and since then I've been picking up smaller figures (The Grandlines Men/Women line) at cons, and went I last went to Japan I went a little over board a got probably way too many haha. I also managed to grab a POP pre-timeskip Franky for a decent price, and a POP Vivi.
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
I'll admit, I'm tired of the "Three Brothers" focus too.
Are we forgetting the emotional scene after Marineford where Luffy loses it and Jinbe has to restrain him and tell him "Do not think about what you have lost, think about what you still have" and he remembers and screams "I HAVE MY CREW!"

But if it's something the fangirls love (which I've read is a major demographic in Japan), then I can see why they do it.
 

Veelk

Banned
Just to be clear, I do enjoy thinking analytically. I'll analyze the hell out of the things I enjoy, I will tear them to pieces and wring them dry. I just do not enjoy thinking critically about them. It's the evaluative process that generally does not interest me, with a few marked exceptions. My gut reaction is usually plenty for me in that regard.

I responded to this, but Seda deleted it. What I said was that I can respect that. For me, thinking critically and thinking analytically are essentially synonymous. It's inevitable for me to follow up with the question of "Is this good" after I ask "How does this work", so I was using them the same. If you like think analytically and just have no interest in making judgement calls, that's fine, as long as you're thinking about it.
 
I'll admit, I'm tired of the "Three Brothers" focus too.
Are we forgetting the emotional scene after Marineford where Luffy loses it and Jinbe has to restrain him and tell him "Do not think about what you have lost, think about what you still have" and he remembers and screams "I HAVE MY CREW!"

But if it's something the fangirls love (which I've read is a major demographic in Japan), then I can see why they do it.

The last time we got some stats on the OP the fan base was rather even between men and women .
And knowing the numbers it sells you can have a lot of fangirls or fanboys .
Got to make that money on both sides .
 
Man the women love ace,sabo,zoro and law so much lol my own fiance goes "there goes my baby every time zoro goes all bandana badass and "that's right law you use ya room boo" it's hilarious
 

Squishy3

Member
i have lucy

img_0855d2suu.jpg
 
It even extends to sketch comedy shows.
The boyfriend too obsessed with One Piece

Holy shit never saw that before .
It's hilarious LMAO .

EDIT got to show my friends this .

Man the women love ace,sabo,zoro and law so much lol my own fiance goes "there goes my baby every time zoro goes all bandana badass and "that's right law you use ya room boo" it's hilarious

I figure the women love luffy also , he is always number 1 on polls .
Then again everyone loves luffy .
 

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
I want to get a Luffy Figurine, but I have trouble deciding what. Then I'll need a complementary Zoro figurine, then I would need the monster trio...

So that's why I haven't bought any figures yet, but that Red Hawk Figurine posted earlier looks super dope.
 
Not into figurines, but I definitely want to get into some One Piece merch.

When I was at Universal Studios Japan, they had entire stores devoted to One Piece merch to hype the live show. Among other things, my favorite purchase was a hoodie-towel hybrid that was meant to protect from the sun and wipe off sweat. It wrapped around your shoulders and had snaps in front of your neck. They had a bunch of different styles, but I got one that was supposed to be the marine jacket that they tend to wear off their shoulders. I wore it around the park, and occasionally the park staff would stop what they were doing and do the marine salute.

Suffice to say, had it been socially acceptable, I absolutely would have worn that towel the entire rest of the trip.
 

Gear 4 looks awesome on the cover .

When I was at Universal Studios Japan, they had entire stores devoted to One Piece merch to hype the live show. Among other things, my favorite purchase was a hoodie-towel hybrid that was meant to protect from the sun and wipe off sweat. It wrapped around your shoulders and had snaps in front of your neck. They had a bunch of different styles, but I got one that was supposed to be the marine jacket that they tend to wear off their shoulders. I wore it around the park, and occasionally the park staff would stop what they were doing and do the marine salute.

Suffice to say, had it been socially acceptable, I absolutely would have worn that towel the entire rest of the trip.

That story sound great .
Not into figures my self so would have to think about other merch to get .
I always loves posters .
 

RomanceDawn

Member
I responded to this, but Seda deleted it. What I said was that I can respect that. For me, thinking critically and thinking analytically are essentially synonymous. It's inevitable for me to follow up with the question of "Is this good" after I ask "How does this work", so I was using them the same. If you like think analytically and just have no interest in making judgement calls, that's fine, as long as you're thinking about it.

Veelk, do I know you from Arlong Park forums? Perhaps you went by the name of Darth?
 

Veelk

Banned
Veelk, do I know you from Arlong Park forums? Perhaps you went by the name of Darth?

Nope, never had an account there. I'm not that dedicated to this series. It's more of a curiosity than anything. Honestly, these last few days/weeks have been the longest I spent talking about it, in general. I started reading around the time the timeskip happened, and been a lurker since then until basically recently. God, if you think I'm bad now, you should have seen me when I was into Naruto.
 

Jarate

Banned
Has Luffy never drank Alcohol before? Ive thought ive seen him drink it with Zorro early in the series

Meh chapter, didnt really bring much to the table, looking forward to seeing Sanji and co do their thing
 

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Has Luffy never drank Alcohol before? Ive thought ive seen him drink it with Zorro early in the series

Meh chapter, didnt really bring much to the table, looking forward to seeing Sanji and co do their thing
I thought the same thing. I always saw him drinking out of mugs with the rest of the crew. Maybe it was just milk.
 
Amazing.

When I was at Universal Studios Japan, they had entire stores devoted to One Piece merch to hype the live show. Among other things, my favorite purchase was a hoodie-towel hybrid that was meant to protect from the sun and wipe off sweat. It wrapped around your shoulders and had snaps in front of your neck. They had a bunch of different styles, but I got one that was supposed to be the marine jacket that they tend to wear off their shoulders. I wore it around the park, and occasionally the park staff would stop what they were doing and do the marine salute.

Suffice to say, had it been socially acceptable, I absolutely would have worn that towel the entire rest of the trip.
Amazing.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Has Luffy never drank Alcohol before? Ive thought ive seen him drink it with Zorro early in the series

Meh chapter, didnt really bring much to the table, looking forward to seeing Sanji and co do their thing

No, he has but maybe he drinks beer or rum while he parties. We know he's had sake once though.

I thought the same thing. I always saw him drinking out of mugs with the rest of the crew. Maybe it was just milk.

You don't drink sake out of a mug, that's for beer or rum.
 
I thought the same thing. I always saw him drinking out of mugs with the rest of the crew. Maybe it was just milk.

Could be luffy making a excuse not to drink with them since it was more than just drinking a drink.
Or sake was not used as a term for alcohol but the type of drink.
Not like it matter anyway since they did what they wanted to which is the luffy way .
 

Chariot

Member
Incidently Luffy was the only one who didn't drink beer at Whikey Peek and the Baroque Works was actually in their everyday working wete bounty hunters (since that came up too a while ago).
 
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