-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
- Start date
- Status
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Perona isn't hard to find and she is reasonably priced. Even Bartolomeo's crappy ass Figuarts is going for 200, it's ridiculous.
It's a combination of not really buying figures any more and being a poor.
I would say robots and ninja's firmly fall into the land of awesome rather than silly, mostly because the vast majority of things in OP are silly to some extent and they're still considered cool. And Robots atleast have proven to be a pragmatic use of weaponry, and ninja's are probably gonna be badass too. They haven't even seen ninjas, so how would they know it's silly? And a long running joke is a repeating joke, with punk hazard just being the most recent use of it I could think of. Don't get so hung up about semantics, man.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Lol, what even. I agree that they're awesome, but that's not even relevant. That has nothing to do with absolutely anything.
Man, why is every joke in One Piece the most complex matter in the world for you? Don't make this into another fly in the soup situation.
igordennis
Member
Sorry for the double post, but apparently Zou, assuming the New World sea isn't only a couple feet deep, is probably based on the Elephants by Salvador Dali, which is a seriously cool and trippy image
Wow you are right. That is amazing. That elephant just got 1000 times weirder.
Edit: proper response to above post would probably unleash the sexism discussion again.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
You're both saying the same exact thing, just with a different "end" on it.
I would lean towards it being a recurring girls don't like "boy-awesome" ie "girl-silly" things joke. Like robots, ninjas, probably giant swords, etc.
Neoriceisgood
Member
That's definitely one way of putting it.
So you agree these things are awesome rather than silly while still arguing that the joke is centered around these things being silly rather than awesome and see no inherent contradiction in this?
Have you considered that maybe it's not me that overthinks things after contradicting on what seems to be pure reflexive instinct? As pelican is pointing out, we're essentially saying very similar things, but with different tones, which is something I was trying to call attention to in my reply.
Anyway, with that Oda quote, I consider the debate done. I hadn't been trying to steer the debate there, but someone earnestly asked about how the joke happened, and I just gave the accurate answer without going into it. I don't know how your supposed to avoid the sexism topic when the answer is basically "because Oda is using a sexist perspective." But, I'm sure people are already set to start grumbling an out how I'm stirring shit up again, so better stop here.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Yeah, it's like Japan-Progressive, which is the equivalent of 1960s rest of the world.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
?
I said the exact same thing as the quote did.
You and me think robots are awesome. Women in One Piece think they are silly. It's a joke. It's not rocket science, and there is no contradiction whatsoever in what I said.
mrmickfran
Member
It looks like we finally get pirates vs. Ninjas.
Ah. I misread then.
Anyway, again, the way the joke works or is meant to work isn't lost on me. I'm trying to orient the idea on why would women think they're silly, which is what I see is lacking. Ninjas are essentially assassin's like Robin was and robots have been shown to be incredible weapons of power. It doesn't make much sense why anyone would think these things are inherently silly, especially in OPs world where everything has an element of silliness anyway and they still take it seriously. So people's reaction to such things being unawesome doesn't make sense regardless of what they have between their legs. The awesome of those things to their silliness (or lack thereof) is empirically verifiable, not really opinion based.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Lately you're the one who's been antagonizing, let's all Netflix and chill.
Unknown One
Member
It's a nice contrast to the Naruto character, Sai, but Kanjuro is much better because of his shitty drawings.
I'm not looking for any fight or even going into any depth. Literally the only thing I'm doing is: why would women not think robots and ninjas are awesome. We know the external reason Oda gives in the sbs, but what's the internal one? If there isn't one, then it's a poor joke. Good jokes make sense within the context of the world they're in.
I Uh... Don't think I'm ready for that level of commitment with you guys
And because he's probably already had more worth to the story than Sai ever did.
Imagine if it had been Usopps power
igordennis
Member
Y'all need to take the high road. Thread is much nicer that way
What, putting veelk on ignore? I'd say thats the childish road, not wanting to hear something you dont like. Which doesnt even work because everyone quotes veelk's posts. I'd rather not make this thread dumber, he offers interesting, if sometimes long (although i feel he cant help but to always explain his position so thoroughly) discourse.
This is off topic so lets just get back to elephants with kilometers long legs.
Unknown One
Member
True.
It'll be funnier if it was Luffy's, but not possible.
I do want to see Luffy draw something and have him bring it to life.
Yeah, I am a mouthy bastard, aren't I? In my experience, people often misinterpret things online, which leads to elaboration later on anyway. Though at this point, it might as well be a tic.
Still, I haven't done anything especially lengthy here in a while.
Being too dense to understand a simple joke is now 'interesting discourse'?
Robin appreciates the cute dragon that looks unique and is surprised by the cliche reaction of her comrades about ninjas who at the same time mocked the dragon for its unique looks (which puts Robin in a better light than the others) - there is nothing of an 'interesting discourse' here and this whole discussion feels just like another attempt to interpret shit the worst way possible for a female character.
This thread has enough room for all kinds of fruitless discussions but some of it is on the verge of trolling and baiting.
I don't want to punch anyone unconcious
It would, if it happened. Which it didn't. Robin didn't react to the ninja reactions at all. Or if I was attacking Robin as a character instead of the writing, which I wasn't. And it's hard to argue I'm interpreting things in the worst possible way when Oda is pretty open about his rationale for the joke. Which I wasn't attacking for the sexism anyway, but the lack of internal rationale.
And people wonder why I try to be as thorough as possible.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Wait are people using a SBS to prove something about Oda when half the time there are full of jokes and gags lol.
The answer is that there is no internal reason, as you said. Oda's joke is that boys love robots and ninjas and girls do not in this world. Oda is using his limited idea of gender construct to create a gag that resonates with japanese people.
I think everyone knows that at this point, and people have already decided if they're fine with it or not, so there's really no need for the discussion. There's nothing to prove.
Why would people from this world even know what Ninjas and Robots are? It's because oda's joke is to make them like "common" japanese children.
I think everyone knows that at this point, and people have already decided if they're fine with it or not, so there's really no need for the discussion. There's nothing to prove.
Why would people from this world even know what Ninjas and Robots are? It's because oda's joke is to make them like "common" japanese children.
No, but seriously, his views on gender are rather traditional, that much is obvious by the way how he writes.
Seriously. This thread is just awkward to read sometimes.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
..except for all that okama stuff.
I don´t know if this has been discussed, but I was thinking about how brilliant is that Usopp now has a bigger bounty. Since the timeskip he has been fairly comfortable picking his battles and been underestimated, because either adversaries don´t recognize him as Sogeking or because the other Straw Hats are far more of a menace to them.
But now with such a high bounty enemies will look at him and treat him in the same way they treat Luffy or Zoro: Like a strong opponent.
Imagine, say, this huge guy with a intimidating ability, that will usually be the designed fighter for Sanji, now going for Usopp and telling him stuff like "So you are God Usopp, huh? I heard you took down the Donquixote family all by yourself, well then lets taste your might" and Usopp scared shitless trying to pass the battle to another straw hat. He is used to the B-Rank or C-Rank enemies, or he has to team up for A-Rank, lets put him against an S-Rank and see how he deals with it.
But now with such a high bounty enemies will look at him and treat him in the same way they treat Luffy or Zoro: Like a strong opponent.
Imagine, say, this huge guy with a intimidating ability, that will usually be the designed fighter for Sanji, now going for Usopp and telling him stuff like "So you are God Usopp, huh? I heard you took down the Donquixote family all by yourself, well then lets taste your might" and Usopp scared shitless trying to pass the battle to another straw hat. He is used to the B-Rank or C-Rank enemies, or he has to team up for A-Rank, lets put him against an S-Rank and see how he deals with it.
Yes, God Usopp has an incredibly high potential for jokes. It's even better because he's a liar and a bragger, but now people will actually believe him.
Yeah, well, I kinda don't wanna go into drag queen discussion, that would end horrible. Just that: how many non-drag gay people are in One Piece.
I was explaining the joke
gundamkyoukai
Member
I won't say not .
Well, all that okama stuff is kinda played up for laughs, which is pretty shitty, I'd say. Although I do find it funny, so I'm part of the problem.
(Not to mention... other shit. EDIT: One example of which Chariot brought up.)
The Okama stuff is traditional Japan tho, and in traditional Japan it was also played for laughs, much like its done on One Piece.
Aaronrules380
Member
I'd say he's fairly progressive from the perspective of Japanese culture, it's just that Japan as a whole is less progressive than countries like the US on these issues
igordennis
Member
I think he understood the joke just fine. His point was whether this joke had an explanation within the universe of One Piece or whether it was just a gag because Oda wants it to be. Im indifferent about it but veelk isnt because he wants to know how coherent the universe of OP is. Hence his questioning about it. I respect it and find his views interesting, yes.
gundamkyoukai
Member
You can't tell how coherent something is from a joke or gag most of the time .
That is like wondering how come nami hurt luffy when we know she don't have haki .
We know it's done for lol and there not much to it same for the rule of cool times.
I think the robot joke originally came from the "Docking" scene in Thriller Bark when Robin refused to dock with the other members, if anything it shows men as idiots who love robots and flashy stuff, while girls love cute stuff like chopper or, in the case of Robin, the dragon drawing, its a generalization played for laughs.
The best way I can think off in the context of the series: Think about how Luffy reacts to attractive women: he is usually either unaware or disinterested, the best example is how Hancock was unable to affect him with the Mero Mero Beam and then how she keeps on trying to show his love with Luffy and Luffy just refusing to have any part on it, and this is all played for laughs.
Now lets go back to the only time Luffy was affected by a woman: Back at the end of the Alabasta arc, the boys are spying on Nami and Vivi, and Nami gives her "Happiness Punch" showing everyone her naked body and everyone, including Luffy, got affected by it. This was, again, played for laughs.
So my theory is gags take precedence over realism and even characterization everytime, because that is just the way the world works. Is the same reason why Robin was showed shocked in the Dressrosa arc and why now Law is joining in the shenanigans of the Straw Hats. Because its funny.
The best way I can think off in the context of the series: Think about how Luffy reacts to attractive women: he is usually either unaware or disinterested, the best example is how Hancock was unable to affect him with the Mero Mero Beam and then how she keeps on trying to show his love with Luffy and Luffy just refusing to have any part on it, and this is all played for laughs.
Now lets go back to the only time Luffy was affected by a woman: Back at the end of the Alabasta arc, the boys are spying on Nami and Vivi, and Nami gives her "Happiness Punch" showing everyone her naked body and everyone, including Luffy, got affected by it. This was, again, played for laughs.
So my theory is gags take precedence over realism and even characterization everytime, because that is just the way the world works. Is the same reason why Robin was showed shocked in the Dressrosa arc and why now Law is joining in the shenanigans of the Straw Hats. Because its funny.
You don't seem to understand what coherence is. You seem to think a joke/gag in the story is somehow separated from the story. If it's on the pagepage, it's part of the world. If a joke is done in such a way that it makes no sense in the universe, then it is incoherent with the universe.
This is an example of a coherent joke, though apparently I had misunderstood it. I thought Robin didn't want to do docking because she is a more solemn personality than the rest of the straw hats and considered those shenanigans to be beneath her dignity. That is a joke that makes sense why it would happen. I'm disappointed if the punchline of it was "lol women" rather than "lol Robin"
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked