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One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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Shirahoshi and Rebeca set the bar so low we actually miss Vivi now.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Time apart makes the heart grow fonder?
So I just finished reading the Alabasta arc, and I wrote up a long post, but it accidentally got deleted, so here are instead the bitesized bits
I'm reading the colored version, which is SO much more bareable in terms of looks than the black and white version. I really dislike OP's early art, and I like it's current art much better due to it's complexity, but make no mistake, OP is meant to be in color. Everything pops at you so much more.
I was surprised that I actually found myself emotionally invested to a small extent. Honestly, I just like VIvi. I can't pinpoint the reason why I like her more than other characters. Maybe for the same reason I like Usopp, in that she is clearly in way over her head and obviously no match for her opponents (which is why the straw hats have to back her), but doesn't give up. Where as Luffy's never say die attitude is more eyerolling because his plot armor (and I hate using that term, but in this case, it's appropriate) is as subtle as a brick to the face, I feel Vivi, like Usopp, has to struggle more and their success isn't as much of an inevitability. Because I liked Vivi more, I felt a little more inclined to care. But I'm me, so it's not too much.
While I was surprised to find myself liking certain parts more, it made me dislike other parts more intensely as well. I've more or less accepted that OP isn't going to make any kind of sense other than arbitrary, but it never stops annoying me how nonsensical the rationale for certain abilities is or how actions don't have the consequences they should. Croc can somehow absorb water because he has the sand sand fruit, which is like being a desert (even though the reason there isn't water in the desert is because of heat and location, not because of the sane itself), so he just magic the water of a place away. But only in his right hand! Why? What makes his right hand a good recipient for sand that other body parts would not? Um....anyway, water is also what his DF is most vulnerable to! Despite literally being able to make it disappear into nothingness. And when he absorbs the water from other living things, one or two gulps immediately fixes it, no problem! That's just one aspect. There's also trying to imagine the positions in which Zoro's body would have to contort to make a sensible transfer from panel to panel or trying to figure out how it would even be an attack. Or how Nami can just produce full mirages just from the fact her thing can clumsily refract light. And....
Ugh. You know. It's One Piece. There's no escaping the nonsense, and you either buy into it or you don't. I don't. I remember there was some dissent at the introduction of Haki removing the 'creativity' from fights by having a single measurable power that can universally affect DF users, but I don't consider it creative when the rules being worked with are so flimsy that they might as well not be there at all. I prefer a good, solid bedrock of justifications.
But what I disliked most was Croc himself. And no, not because he's an asshat. God knows I agree with his general sentiments of how insufferable the strawhats are. But just doesn't shut the fuck up. He has the worst Bond villain traits worked into him. Ultimately, he ends up being as annoying as the other characters because he'd rather spend 20 minutes setting some stupid, sadistic game instead of just getting the job done. He could have won twenty times over. Stuck his hook in Vivi's eyesocket as soon as she showed up. Drowned the strawhats as soon as they were in the cage (his justification was for Vivi to show up, but how the hell would she know if they were dead or not until she actually showed up?). Not to mention his whole interaction with Sanji over the phone was so uncharacteristically sloppy of him. He has this whole super secret organization that he spent years developing, but he never thought to make a code when he knew he was being listened in by the marines or atleast a call sign to make sure that he was talking to a member of his organizatiion? Anyone could have just walked in and listened to him compromise himself...which is exactly what happened. He didn't recognize that that wasn't Mr. 3's voice or that he was speaking completely differently form how he speaks or how he was acting strangely flippant to his fearsome boss? Jesus, Croc, that's one fucking hell of a blindspot in your covert organization. But without that call basically begging someone to screw him over, the strawhats would have no way of even beginning their journey.
This isn't wholly unique to him of course, plenty of villains and even main characters don't stop talking, ever, often flat out telling what they're going to do and how. It actually kind of amazes me how few characters think to hide their DF abilities, or lie about them. Seems like huge tactical missed opportunity. But I guess it's more glaring with Croc as he's supposed to be this hyper intelligent vicious dude, but he just makes so many blatantly idiotic mistakes, at the same time no small wonder that a bunch of noob pirates that don't even know Haki can screw his shit up.
God help the Strawhats the day they face an actual competent enemy is simply interested in accomplishing his goal and has no interest in discussion anything with them.
I got into OP post Vivi departure, so I only ever saw the love for her. I wouldn't have known people hated Vivi.
I'm reading the colored version, which is SO much more bareable in terms of looks than the black and white version. I really dislike OP's early art, and I like it's current art much better due to it's complexity, but make no mistake, OP is meant to be in color. Everything pops at you so much more.
I was surprised that I actually found myself emotionally invested to a small extent. Honestly, I just like VIvi. I can't pinpoint the reason why I like her more than other characters. Maybe for the same reason I like Usopp, in that she is clearly in way over her head and obviously no match for her opponents (which is why the straw hats have to back her), but doesn't give up. Where as Luffy's never say die attitude is more eyerolling because his plot armor (and I hate using that term, but in this case, it's appropriate) is as subtle as a brick to the face, I feel Vivi, like Usopp, has to struggle more and their success isn't as much of an inevitability. Because I liked Vivi more, I felt a little more inclined to care. But I'm me, so it's not too much.
While I was surprised to find myself liking certain parts more, it made me dislike other parts more intensely as well. I've more or less accepted that OP isn't going to make any kind of sense other than arbitrary, but it never stops annoying me how nonsensical the rationale for certain abilities is or how actions don't have the consequences they should. Croc can somehow absorb water because he has the sand sand fruit, which is like being a desert (even though the reason there isn't water in the desert is because of heat and location, not because of the sane itself), so he just magic the water of a place away. But only in his right hand! Why? What makes his right hand a good recipient for sand that other body parts would not? Um....anyway, water is also what his DF is most vulnerable to! Despite literally being able to make it disappear into nothingness. And when he absorbs the water from other living things, one or two gulps immediately fixes it, no problem! That's just one aspect. There's also trying to imagine the positions in which Zoro's body would have to contort to make a sensible transfer from panel to panel or trying to figure out how it would even be an attack. Or how Nami can just produce full mirages just from the fact her thing can clumsily refract light. And....
Ugh. You know. It's One Piece. There's no escaping the nonsense, and you either buy into it or you don't. I don't. I remember there was some dissent at the introduction of Haki removing the 'creativity' from fights by having a single measurable power that can universally affect DF users, but I don't consider it creative when the rules being worked with are so flimsy that they might as well not be there at all. I prefer a good, solid bedrock of justifications.
But what I disliked most was Croc himself. And no, not because he's an asshat. God knows I agree with his general sentiments of how insufferable the strawhats are. But just doesn't shut the fuck up. He has the worst Bond villain traits worked into him. Ultimately, he ends up being as annoying as the other characters because he'd rather spend 20 minutes setting some stupid, sadistic game instead of just getting the job done. He could have won twenty times over. Stuck his hook in Vivi's eyesocket as soon as she showed up. Drowned the strawhats as soon as they were in the cage (his justification was for Vivi to show up, but how the hell would she know if they were dead or not until she actually showed up?). Not to mention his whole interaction with Sanji over the phone was so uncharacteristically sloppy of him. He has this whole super secret organization that he spent years developing, but he never thought to make a code when he knew he was being listened in by the marines or atleast a call sign to make sure that he was talking to a member of his organizatiion? Anyone could have just walked in and listened to him compromise himself...which is exactly what happened. He didn't recognize that that wasn't Mr. 3's voice or that he was speaking completely differently form how he speaks or how he was acting strangely flippant to his fearsome boss? Jesus, Croc, that's one fucking hell of a blindspot in your covert organization. But without that call basically begging someone to screw him over, the strawhats would have no way of even beginning their journey.
This isn't wholly unique to him of course, plenty of villains and even main characters don't stop talking, ever, often flat out telling what they're going to do and how. It actually kind of amazes me how few characters think to hide their DF abilities, or lie about them. Seems like huge tactical missed opportunity. But I guess it's more glaring with Croc as he's supposed to be this hyper intelligent vicious dude, but he just makes so many blatantly idiotic mistakes, at the same time no small wonder that a bunch of noob pirates that don't even know Haki can screw his shit up.
God help the Strawhats the day they face an actual competent enemy is simply interested in accomplishing his goal and has no interest in discussion anything with them.
I got into OP post Vivi departure, so I only ever saw the love for her. I wouldn't have known people hated Vivi.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Good thing Kuma was on their side.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Veelk, why do you watch One Piece if you don't like it? So you can write paragraphs and paragraphs about why it's bad?
Kuma is one of OP's biggest mysteries right now, and there are almost no clues to why he gave himself over to the world government. Unlike the rest of the plot threads planted years and years before they're actually expanded upon, Kuma is a total wild card. I like how the characters are as in the dark as the readers - everyone who knew him before says he would never do that, and seem confused and surprised by his actions. Hoping there's a major truth bomb behind his reasoning.
Yes.
Edit: the next post below is the real answerr, but I'm just sick of the question at this point, so I'm just gonna say yes from now on.
Johnlenham
Member
Bon clay needs to join. I dont care how, it just has to happen
I also feel the need to vent about my frustration with OP's inability to commit to it's violence. It has all these powerful weapons and people and attacks, but almost everyone survives it all, often for no discernible reason. Again, this has been a staple of the franchise, where death only happens in flashbacks or very VERY minor characters, but a major theme of this arc was that in war, people just die. Vivi's whole mission statement was to avoid and deny this, which was derailed by Luffy as unrealistic. And when the war finally did happen, we are treated to several shots of fighting...but it's never with actual bloodshed. It's jarring to be told over and over how awful fighting is and how death is inevitible, but don't ever see it. Even Pell survives a point blank nuclear blast (or equivelent of) and is recovered enough to move the very next day. There is a speech by the King to commemorate the losses they suffered. I remember writing a post when I first read the alabasta arc complaining that nobody died and that people partying right after as if nothing happened was thematically jarring and inappropriate. At that, people said I completely missed the point about the kings speech being to commemorate the people who fell in battle. However, rereading it, I'm not sure I buy that. Yes, it could have been that, but it's talking about general losses, not specifically of people dying. For all we know, they could be talking about the time spent just fighting and injuring one another. For all of the lectures of how Croc though Vivi was an idiot for thinking a war with no causalities was possible, with Luffy even agreeing with him...she might very well be right. As far as we know, nobody died in that allegedly horrible and traumatizing war.
This lack of commitment to it's own brutality essentially delegitimatizes any claim to the characters suffering, so their tears ring hollow. "You're father got stabbed with nails to the wall? Tis' but a scratch." This continues all the way to day. Law should be dead from the first time Doffy slapped his shit in Dressrosa, but somehow being shot multiple times is only a temporary inconvenience. But I know he's going to walk it off in the next few chapters, so what should be a monsterous act turns into more just petty cruelty that doesn't meaningfully change anything between them. Maybe this is the root of why I don't hate any of the villains. They're outrageously evil, but what does that matter when no matter how much damage they try to do, everything can be fixed right up in a jiffy.
Damn, I actually meant to ediit that in, but I hit post before I remembered to. Ah well.
This lack of commitment to it's own brutality essentially delegitimatizes any claim to the characters suffering, so their tears ring hollow. "You're father got stabbed with nails to the wall? Tis' but a scratch." This continues all the way to day. Law should be dead from the first time Doffy slapped his shit in Dressrosa, but somehow being shot multiple times is only a temporary inconvenience. But I know he's going to walk it off in the next few chapters, so what should be a monsterous act turns into more just petty cruelty that doesn't meaningfully change anything between them. Maybe this is the root of why I don't hate any of the villains. They're outrageously evil, but what does that matter when no matter how much damage they try to do, everything can be fixed right up in a jiffy.
Damn, I actually meant to ediit that in, but I hit post before I remembered to. Ah well.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
The crew or the alliance i see the latter happening no doubt
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
What makes it worst is the fact it happens immediately after bon clays goodbye...too many feels
Pegosaurus
Banned
Goda hits you in the gut with THOSE FEEEELS
yup. one of the best characters
I can't wait to learn more about Kuma and Vegapunk. I'm hoping that Vegapunk is a double agent for the revolutionary army, or something.
I think Vegapunk only cares about making scientific advancements, and is probably working for the marines because he can get the most money and equipment, and he doesn't actually care about their ideals.
I mean Doflamingo definitely displayed less of this than other characters. He took a pretty no nonsense approach when things started getting serious in Dressrosa, and Luffy still whooped him. Granted, Doflamingo had opportunities to kill the SHs earlier, namely when Bellamy warned him back in Jaya.
and yeah, if Kuma wasn't on their side, Kizaru would have DESTROYED them at Sabaody.
I disagree. I got really excited when he was all "I'm not gonna make the same mistake as those other idiots and understimate them. Instead, he toys around with all his victims (especially law), keeps the king alive for some reason when eh could have just offed him any time and essentially removed any chance of a future rebellion. And as far the straw hats themselves, what did he do when Luffy Gear 4ed? "AHAHAHAAHAHA, WHAT A RIDICULOUS THING THAT CAN'T POSSIBLY HURT BE BECAUSE FOR SOME REASON EVEN THOUGH 95% OF PEOPLE IN OP LOOK WEIRD AND OH MY NOW I AM GETTING SLAMMED ACROSS THE CITY"
Doflamingo should have cut off Law's head their first fight out. And why he waited to use his awakened ability for at the very end is anyone's guess. If he truly wasn't going to underestimate him, that should have been the first thing the moment their fight started, no BS, no nothing. I don't agree about Kizaru either. Dude loves to talk shit too. He just happens to be OP enough to actually get away with it. I don't recall how the fight went precisely, but I'm willing to bet that if he hadn't spent time shit talking, he would have killed the straw hats earlier than Kuma could arrive. Even Akainu falls victim to this.
The only villain that actually took the no bullshit approach is Kuma, and he's on their side.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Eh, Doflamingo had lots of opportunities post time-skip to essentially "stop" the Strawhats. He could have escaped the island at any time and killed Law numerous times.
The thing is, overconfidence has always been every One Piece villain's downfall. They're all overconfident in their abilities or support which ultimately leads them to being caught off-guard by unpredictable variables. Most villains don't expect Luffy to be so irrational in fighting not to mention him being so powerful. Most also don't expect so many people to ally with the Strawhats as well.
Well, that's where the villains being morons complaint comes in. The strawhats being a force to be reckoned has long since stopped being a surprise to anyone. And Luffy's insanity, as most would consider it, is well documented. It's not like they're hiding it very well or anything. It's been obvious since Ennies Lobby where Luffy publically declared war over his nakama. And it's not even THAT uncommon a trait. Plenty of random characters, from Bon Clay to frikken whitebeard and shanks make it clear that they have no interest in gold or fame, but will do anything for friends. Luffy isn't that unique in this regard. I've often heard it said that the Strawhats are a very rare breed of pirate that isn't interested in dicking the world over, but there are atleast 2 Yonkos that are nice and presumably extent those policies to their fleets, there are plenty of pirates like the Kuja that are content being left alone to do their own thing and aren't actively malicious, and many individual pirates being revealed to be generally nice people even if they start out villainous (Mr. 3 and Hatchi and Brownbeard), implying that the 'bad' pirate crews are often due to evil leaders.
At some point, it just stops being a valid excuse that no one can predict this rambunctious crew. Their mission goals and policies are loud and clear and their strength is indisputable. Especially given that Doflamingo said he was going to avoid the pitfalls that his predecessors fell in, him not doing the obvious thing is particularly disappointing.
And that's not counting just abject failures of common sense, like having a call sign for your secret dendenmushi line where you discuss organizational secret missions. There is literally no way to justify that amount of carelessness. Croc specifically said he was aware that the line might be intercepted, but had no notion that some rando might wander into the hut Mr. 3 had? Ugh.
igordennis
Member
Yep, agreed. This is one of the most annoying things of OP for me. How ANYONE can take a cannon shot to the head and just shrug it off. Any impact Oda tries to make with seemingly devastating attacks is just instantly lost because of this fact that has persisted thorought the entirety of OP. The reader has learned to expect that these attacks are going to be meaningless in 5 minutes when everyone's back to normal and fully healed. The panels dedicated to this have become essentially a waste of space.
Pegosaurus
Banned
Ok, yeah these are all good points haha. I guess Doflamingo's arrogance got the best of him as well. He definitely could have prevented all of this from happening in numerous ways, so I guess that point is invalid.
The only other fight I can think of is with Mihawk, but he never had the intention to kill Zoro, or the others, so I'm not sure if that counts. I hope we do get a fight like that sometime though.
I can totally understand why that would be a complaint, but honestly it doesn't bother me in the slightest, and doesn't diminish the impact of the scenes. I'm pretty good at suspending my disbelief I guess.
Same as the Kizaru argument. "Oh, you wish to challenge me? Why don't I just use my tiny knife instead." Mihawk loves to shit talk and mock opponents, he just has been right so far because he is just that good. Honestly, though, he doesn't really count because he doesn't have any kind of mission to complete. He's just loafing around, netflix and chilling with Perona until Zoro is good enough to meet him
Maybe it's because the point is to establish the malice and cruelty of those characters. I mean, regardless of the outcome, the fact that they are trying to do these evil things entices the audience to hate them. Plus, death or no, they are obviously causing pain, so it's not like the acts mean literally nothing.
But I feel like I'm being emotionally manipulated when that happens, which only entices me to double down on my indifference. It would work much better if used sparingly, but it's hard to think of a villain who didn't have a "And this is just me being a pointless dick to show how evil I am rather than advance the story in any way."
Pegosaurus
Banned
oh i forgot Mihawk didn't use his real sword in the fight, nvm then
and yeah, like I said, I definitely understand where you're coming from on that front
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
No one knows, but we do know that he did survive.
It's the same thing every time someone sacrifice themself in OP, lol. They survive anyway.
ssj5krillhan
Member
Luffy had Law & others to help him fight Doffy but.................... Luffy just fought Ceasar & like the next day he fought a ton of people in the tournament & went after Doffy. All Doffy had was a run in with Kuzan. Doffy was more well rested than Luffy before they fought that's for sure. I don't count Luffy running away from Cabbage in the arena contributing to his fatigue lol.
Edit: Damn just remembered Doffy fought Law but didn't really get a scratch on him while Luffy was using Haki since his fight with Caesar.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
How is it clear? He was wounded by Law, and if I recall, it wasn't a grand slam victory for Luffy either, was it?
Maybe not that clear, but doflamingo had a hard time trying to keep up with gear 4 luffy, even with his awakened power
Law also injected that one attack to Doflamingo that kept on attacking his heart while he was healing himself. I am sure that also left a mark on flamingo
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Nah it's clear gear 4th luffy completely outclassed mingo. Speed,strength,defense(mingos strings bounced off for gods sake) if gear 4th was mastered like gear 2nd i doubt it would have been hard
And there's the issue. Luffy has yet to master Gear 4th or extend the period it lasts, and as long as he doesn't I will call him weaker than Doflamingo, because currently he can't keep up Gear 4th long enough to beat Doflamingo completely, and additionally to that, the time he's completely exhausted and unable to fight after that would be fatal.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I can agree with this actually. So we all agree gear 4th greater than mingo?
Honestly tho from what we've seen of it.I'd put luffy using gear 4th on admiral level. If he learns to sustain it like he can gear 2nd he'll be a monster
I always liked Vivi. She was a little dull and boring next to all the other Straw Hats, but that was what made her endearing. Vivi's normalcy actually stood out and made her unique in the context of the One Piece world.
In my OP rewatch I just watched the first ep of the Jaya Arc, the salvage mission, and it's made me realize this is what I have missed from current One Piece.
I mean, I loved both the Punk Hazard and Dressrosa arcs, but these mini-arc adventures (Jaya, Davy Back Fight) were just fun side-adventures that helped build the world, and didn't have some main mission, per se, which is what they've been on since joining up with Law.
It's not that I don't expect another arc like these eventually, it just makes one think when considering the sheer length of the previous two arcs.
Being said, I am still very interested in seeing where Zou goes, lol
I mean, I loved both the Punk Hazard and Dressrosa arcs, but these mini-arc adventures (Jaya, Davy Back Fight) were just fun side-adventures that helped build the world, and didn't have some main mission, per se, which is what they've been on since joining up with Law.
It's not that I don't expect another arc like these eventually, it just makes one think when considering the sheer length of the previous two arcs.
Being said, I am still very interested in seeing where Zou goes, lol
I never hated her either. I always felt people that did were overreacting.
Then again, I don't hate Shirahoshi or Rebecca either so maybe I'm the crazy one.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Nah ur not crazy at all the hate for Rebecca is way overblown and simply stems from the fact people wanted her as a strawhat when dressrosa started, than when she turned out not to be that kind of person people started to shit on her
I don't really hate any of the characters in one piece either, sure dislike some or parts of some but not hate. I accept that a character is how the maker wanted them to be, if I don't like most of the characters I just don't watch or read the series.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
I had no idea people didn't like Vivi. She was lovely. The polar opposite of Robin (though I like Robin too, mind).
Pegosaurus
Banned
Gear 4 Luffy is undeniably stronger than Doflamingo. If Luffy had opened with Gear 4 and King Kong, there would have been no need for the recharge.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I agree with the first part
Im not sure about the second tho are you talking about the first gear 4 hit or the fight in general because that first hit had mingo trying to figure out what the heck happened lol
Pegosaurus
Banned
luffy is ridiculously fast in gear 4
i don't know how doflamingo propels himself with the strings, but he definitely couldn't keep up
this is a side note, but the reason Zoro will never beat Luffy is because Luffy is too fast. I know people talk about that sometimes.
i don't know how doflamingo propels himself with the strings, but he definitely couldn't keep up
this is a side note, but the reason Zoro will never beat Luffy is because Luffy is too fast. I know people talk about that sometimes.
I disagree with this part, Doffy took a lot of damage of the first round so there's no way to know if the King Kong would straight one-hit KO him
Doflamingo had his Bird Cage in place all the time while fighting Luffy, something similiar to how Law had his room setup all the time to surprise Doffy, so we know having a power like that active for a long time is tiring.
Doflamingo was overconfident for sure, if he had taken Luffy a little bit more seriously instead of wanting to humiliate him and show off his power to Dressrosa then it may have been a closer fight, I still think Luffy could have won if both characters were well rested.
Doflamingo was overconfident for sure, if he had taken Luffy a little bit more seriously instead of wanting to humiliate him and show off his power to Dressrosa then it may have been a closer fight, I still think Luffy could have won if both characters were well rested.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Honestly? Thats what people really overlook. I feel like luffy did way too much before he got to mingo for oda to justify a one vs one win.
Mingo-countered a meteor thats it,and played with law and sanji a lil bit,than battled law
Where as luffy-fought in the Colosseum,ran across the country,scuffle with mingo than thrown out,ran across the country again,tussle with bellamy where he took unnecessary damage because he wouldn't attack him then!! Went one vs one
Steven said last week that the people on Zou have a lot of different verbal tics. So I think there will be more to come
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