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Overwatch |OT10| That'll do pig, that'll do

T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Fugu said:
Console or PC?
Click to expand...

PC, 2100 SR, and I'm not calling her overpowered, just like Roadhog 1 hit wasn't overpowered. Just not fun to play against, particularly in solo queue where help doesn't always come.

Unless you think it's easy to fight a Pharah with a Zen and Mercy healing her by yourself with a soldier. I find I always take her down to 25% health, and she just drops to the ground behind a wall, and then pops back up 2 seconds later fully healed.

Maybe I just need to learn to play widow.

Either way, it mostly just sucks having to be forced into one of like 6 different heros that can fight her if you want to climb at all. She deletes half the roster unless you're confident in your teammates to deal with her for you, which is a bad bet. Zarya, Orisa, Reinhart, Mei, Reaper, Tracer, Junkrat, Roadhog, Symmetra, and Torb, are basically off limits to someone looking to climb unless you either get no enemy pharah or teammates that know how to deal with her. Sombra, Bastion, and Genji isn't great against her either.
 
A

AbaFadi

Banned
Fugu said:
They probably should nerf her on console. It makes absolutely no sense to nerf her on PC however, since we've only recently reached a place where she's actually workable at high levels. As for needing two slots on your team to counter her, that's true but so does every other non-hitscan non-healer when used in an advantageous situation. Bastion requires a concerted effort to counter but he sucks.


Pharah was irrelevant in Season 1 and 2 and had a very hard time in the tank meta. Now her pick rate in pro games is in the high single digits and her stats in comp are like, below average for a DPS. I think the issue here is of perception in that getting beat by a Pharah often feels like a stomp, but she doesn't actually win that much and the big tanks have a much larger impact on the game.
Click to expand...

Pharah got buffed at the end of season 2 which made her lift higher and damage increased I believe, which was why she has more play after season 2. I play at a pretty high rank on pc, and the amount of times I see a Pharmercy dominate is pretty high.

Pharah is in a weird spot where without a Mercy pocket, she's really not that hard to deal with. It's when you throw a Mercy with her she becomes annoying. If they were to nerf something, I'd rather they nerf the combo in some way. That would probably be a nerf to Mercy though.
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
So they kill Roadhog, and next you guys want them to neuter Pharah?

How about you tell me to stop playing this game all together?
 
T

TheDrizzlerJ11

Member
Give Mercys fly around ability a real CD and she'd her survivability becomes signigificantly nerfed and much easier to kill when pharmercing. She'd be absolutely no fun to play as tho.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
The problem with mercy is that while she can pull out her pistol, the way she plays means she cannot do any damage while healing, nor can she heal while damage boosting, and so on. She's limited to a single action at any one time. Something that can't be said about any other healer.

So for her to not be a complete joke, she has to be good at the things she does. There isn't much wiggle room to be had, atleast relative to a lot of other heroes.
 
L

LiK

Member
Pharah isn't an issue, imo. Pharmercy is tho. I dunno what they could do to balance that combo.

rulerk1 said:
Was gonna win a comp game but someone in a duo left becuase he had to go do something. I hate this playerbase so much. His friend didn't even talk about it ugh
Click to expand...

I'm up for Comp tonight.
 
N

Nuno Pinto

Member
AbadabadaFadi said:
If you take a look at the official Blizzard forums she's next on their hit list so be ready for the nerf next patch lol.

Tbh, I'd be okay with a Pharah nerf. Having to use up 2-3 spots on your team to deal with Pharah is pretty annoying anyways, especially when your hitscan isn't focusing her.
Click to expand...

Any word from the devs? Or just by the amount of complaints?

AbadabadaFadi said:
Pharah got buffed at the end of season 2 which made her lift higher and damage increased I believe, which was why she has more play after season 2. I play at a pretty high rank on pc, and the amount of times I see a Pharmercy dominate is pretty high.
Click to expand...

Only the hover got buffed, her splash damage got nerfed to compensate iirc.

AbadabadaFadi said:
Pharah is in a weird spot where without a Mercy pocket, she's really not that hard to deal with. It's when you throw a Mercy with her she becomes annoying. If they were to nerf something, I'd rather they nerf the combo in some way. That would probably be a nerf to Mercy though.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

If they do nerf only Pharah I hope it's nothing too severe.

Having my favorite characters getting nerfed is not fun at all.

LiK said:
Pharah isn't an issue, imo. Pharmercy is tho. I dunno what they could do to balance that combo.
Click to expand...

Batman had a pretty good suggestion, nerf the healing output of Mercy while she's descending.
 
P

Prelude.

Member
I don't think they're stupid enough to nerf Pharah, they're the ones designing the game, they (should) know what's the real problem.
 
F

Fugu

Member
AbadabadaFadi said:
Pharah got buffed at the end of season 2 which made her lift higher and damage increased I believe, which was why she has more play after season 2. I play at a pretty high rank on pc, and the amount of times I see a Pharmercy dominate is pretty high.

Pharah is in a weird spot where without a Mercy pocket, she's really not that hard to deal with. It's when you throw a Mercy with her she becomes annoying. If they were to nerf something, I'd rather they nerf the combo in some way. That would probably be a nerf to Mercy though.
Click to expand...
I play on PC at a high rank as well. Indeed, according to Overbuff I'm currently just outside the top 100 Pharahs. I also heal a lot and I've seen what it looks like from the other side.

The numbers don't support the notion that Pharah is overpowered. Her win rate is not especially high and she's enabled by a character that is generally recognized to be underpowered and at best a liability to be mitigated by a Pharah carry. The pro meta sees Pharah used exclusively with Mercy and almost only on KotH, so there's no support for the "overpowered" argument there, either.

I consider it more poignant to look at the characters that have dominated at all levels of play and to an unignorable degree. What makes Winstion, Lucio and to a lesser extent D.Va must picks that appear in every single game? It sure as hell isn't Pharah.


EDIT: Pharah did indeed get buffed in S2 due to being abysmal in S1 but because games rapidly became oriented around Ana she was pushed out until very recently.
 
N

Nimby

Banned
Like I really dunno anymore, this game has a lot of issues for me personally atm, and Pharah+Mercy isn't one, but it apparently is for other people. It's extremely exhausting to think about all the problems this game has: balance, matchmaking, rank scumming, throwing, toxicity, one-tricks, the numerous amount of bugs in every patch, and Blizzard's reluctance to address these issues are making this game a tough play for me right now.

I sound like Anne right now, but after thinking about it and constantly seeing it, I just don't wanna deal with it anymore. Game still feels like a beta to me, things should have been worked out far sooner IMO.
 
A

AbaFadi

Banned
Nuno Pinto said:
Any word from the devs? Or just by the amount of complaints?

Only the hover got buffed, her splash damage got nerfed to compensate iirc.

Agreed.

If they do nerf only Pharah I hope it's nothing too severe.

Having my favorite characters getting nerfed is not fun at all.

Batman had a pretty good suggestion, nerf the healing output of Mercy while she's descending.
Click to expand...

I'm just going by what Blizzard has done in the past by buffing/nerfing the heroes the community posts about on the forums. If you looked before it was a bunch of threads about Roadhog and look how hard he got nerfed as a result lol.

Fugu said:
I play on PC at a high rank as well. Indeed, according to Overbuff I'm currently just outside the top 100 Pharahs. I also heal a lot and I've seen what it looks like from the other side.

The numbers don't support the notion that Pharah is overpowered. Her win rate is not especially high and she's enabled by a character that is generally recognized to be underpowered and at best a liability to be mitigated by a Pharah carry. The pro meta sees Pharah used exclusively with Mercy and almost only on KotH, so there's no support for the "overpowered" argument there, either.

I consider it more poignant to look at the characters that have dominated at all levels of play and to an unignorable degree. What makes Winstion, Lucio and to a lesser extent D.Va must picks that appear in every single game? It sure as hell isn't Pharah.


EDIT: Pharah did indeed get buffed in S2 due to being abysmal in S1 but because games rapidly became oriented around Ana she was pushed out until very recently.
Click to expand...

I in no way think Pharah is op. People just suck at dealing with her. I think comparing pro play to ladder play is a bit different though. The thing with Roadhog for example, and why he got nerfed, was because he could flank or do whatever he needed to to get picks. This is why you see people like Harbleu who could climb pretty high in ranked play with this play style but it didn't necessarily carry over to pro play since teams can work together to stop a flank hog from wiping a team.

I just don't expect her to remain as is due to community complaints on the official forums. You're right about the Winston and Lucio argument though. Both of those heroes are way too good now and could honestly use a slight nerf in some way.
 
M

MKIL65

Member
Prelude. said:
I don't think they're stupid enough to nerf Pharah, they're the ones designing the game, they (should) know what's the real problem.
Click to expand...

Blizzard clearly has no clue what balance is. It has nothing to do about being ''stupid''

Remember when McCree could melt tanks? They were perfectly content with releasing him in that state.

Then they reworked him, and turned him into a long ranged revolver god. Which was a big issue on PC, they got even more flak for that one.

So no, we have to sometimes point out that they have no clue what they're doing. That's why players should give feedback.

And no, releasing a 150 HP slow-as-fuck monk was not a good idea either!
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Basically Pharah is something you change just as a buff to the characters she counters who see limited play.

Lucio and Winston is something you nerf because they are just generally overpowered.
 
I

Incendiary

Banned
Just played a game where on Defense the kid playing Mercy was forward facing and using her pistol the entire time, when the rest of the team was back by the payload. No idea what he was doing or why he refused to stay with the team, but we still managed to win so whatever.
 
W

weremichael

Member
LiK said:
I enjoy playing as Zen but I wish people did a better job protecting me.
Click to expand...
I really hide in the back and peak fire discord orbs and orbs of destruction and heal folks as they attack or defend (unless there is a Lucio then I stick near him). I sometimes do end up feeling isolated and unprotected and then I switch to Sombra and hack life packs to stay a healer of a short.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
The interesting thing about Dive is that it's hard to pinpoint a specific thing and be like "yup, this right here is what's overpowered, nerf that". Like Winston is super good but is it just Winston himself or the synergy off of him? A lot of people still don't like playing him because of how weak he feels on his own and he seems like a character that could easily become unplayable if they hit something.

TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
Road hog was a bad character since day one tho. It took them almost a year to do anything.
Click to expand...

They were doing a lot of things with the hero since launch. The recent nerf absolutely destroyed him and all the previous balance work they did out of nowhere.
 
T

TimeEffect

Member
What if Mercy was invincible but had a bit of a charge up to Rez, allowing opponents to push her away without interrupting her revive?

So like, a Winston shield could limit it, or Reind could push her away, kind of like a DVA ult.
 
P

pizzacat

Banned
Pharah has less pick rate than the healer that enables her and you guys want nerfs lul

Playing into a pharmercy is playing into a 5v6 where one healer is out in the open at all times and the other is looking over their team in a world where genji and tracer are the best dps options

Play spread out, have a zen, have one hitscan.

Pharmercy is so far from being the end all be all

Esp with the characters in the meta right now
 
N

Nimby

Banned
THe_DeiCiDe said:
How bout this...

10 second cd on hook, 3 clip scrap gun, same damage and fire rate he always had and maybe a 10-20% reload buff.
Click to expand...

I'd be perfectly fine with Roadhog if his right click just didn't one-shot. I play around hook and know its cooldowns, the only time I realistically should get hooked is if a Roadhog catches me off guard or I'm just being too greedy.

Literally every other change was just whatever.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
Just played the most intense game ever. We had two diamonds in our team against one diamond on the enemy team. I was gonna goof around and try maining D.va but 1 min in the game and nope gotta change (Mercy). I can't lose when the stakes are high. My SR is below 2000 so why do we have diamonds anyway lol

Suddenly

Pharmercy

Fuck fuck fuck

We had Soldier but he was a begginer and I can't blame him when Mercy is infinite healing her. And D.va is too busy on the ground so fuck you Blizzard.

Lost two rounds then

Flawless victory. Two can play this game assholes. Fuck yes! Even rez 3 players on air oh yeah.
 
A

antitrop

Member
MCD said:
Just played the most intense game ever. We had two diamonds in our team against one diamond on the enemy team. I was gonna goof around and try maining D.va but 1 min in the game and nope gotta change (Mercy). I can't lose when the stakes are high. My SR is below 2000 so why do we have diamonds anyway lol

Suddenly

Pharmercy

Fuck fuck fuck

We had Soldier but he was a begginer and I can't blame him when Mercy is infinite healing her. And D.va is too busy on the ground so fuck you Blizzard.

Lost two rounds then

Flawless victory. Two can play this game assholes. Fuck yes! Even rez 3 players on air oh yeah.
Click to expand...

Except for Masters, Grandmasters, and Top 500, you keep the rank icon of the highest rank achieved (so up to Diamond), even if you drop below the minimum SR for that rank.

So you can have a Diamond icon and be in Bronze league, as long as you got up to 3000 just once that season.
 
E

ersocaster

Member
On the Pharmercy issue, at least in low/mid plat, as D.Va I can take care of the duo by myself most times. If you get in Pharah's face she kills herself on your mech 90% of the time.

I know that's not necessarily D.Va's best use, but it works. I don't think the combo should be nerfed, there are plenty of ways to deal with her. More often than not you want to prioritize killing Mercy anyway, at least with Pharmercy you always know where she's at lol
 
P

Prelude.

Member
MKIL65 said:
Blizzard clearly has no clue what balance is. It has nothing to do about being ''stupid''

Remember when McCree could melt tanks? They were perfectly content with releasing him in that state.

Then they reworked him, and turned him into a long ranged revolver god. Which was a big issue on PC, they got even more flak for that one.

So no, we have to sometimes point out that they have no clue what they're doing. That's why players should give feedback.

And no, releasing a 150 HP slow-as-fuck monk was not a good idea either!
Click to expand...
But Pharah is not the issue, her dps output is one of the lowest, nerfing her makes no sense. So, yeah, if you look at Pharmercy and think Pharah is the one that needs to be addressed, you're not the brightest bulb, it's not about "balance".
They're clearly more competent than the vast majority of who writes on their forums, even if a lot of people are asking for Pharah nerfs, it doesn't mean they should listen to them.

Mercy has been a poorly designed character since day 1, and the game would have been better overall without her, but since she's been a popular pick pretty sporadically it's never been a huge deal. Now it kinda is, and it's time to fix that with a rework of her garbage kit.
 
C

Carl-Sagan

Member
Anyone in NA wanting to queue up on my account in 2900 ish? Looking to play around tonight.

---

XZBo7Ie.png


Working on playing other healers on my ~2900 account. Unfortunate that my duo had DC'd. We were doing awesome!
 
L

LumpOfCole

Member
MCD said:
Just played the most intense game ever. We had two diamonds in our team against one diamond on the enemy team. I was gonna goof around and try maining D.va but 1 min in the game and nope gotta change (Mercy). I can't lose when the stakes are high. My SR is below 2000 so why do we have diamonds anyway lol

Suddenly

Pharmercy

Fuck fuck fuck

We had Soldier but he was a begginer and I can't blame him when Mercy is infinite healing her. And D.va is too busy on the ground so fuck you Blizzard.

Lost two rounds then

Flawless victory. Two can play this game assholes. Fuck yes! Even rez 3 players on air oh yeah.
Click to expand...

I think that Pharmercy would be more balanced (especially for pre-Diamond levels) if Mercy's automatic HP regeneration doesn't kick in until she's on the ground. It would give more nuance to her skill level as well.
 
F

Fugu

Member
AbadabadaFadi said:
I in no way think Pharah is op. People just suck at dealing with her. I think comparing pro play to ladder play is a bit different though. The thing with Roadhog for example, and why he got nerfed, was because he could flank or do whatever he needed to to get picks. This is why you see people like Harbleu who could climb pretty high in ranked play with this play style but it didn't necessarily carry over to pro play since teams can work together to stop a flank hog from wiping a team.

I just don't expect her to remain as is due to community complaints on the official forums. You're right about the Winston and Lucio argument though. Both of those heroes are way too good now and could honestly use a slight nerf in some way.
Click to expand...
I agree that pro play is different than ladder. I don't think Pharah is all that dominant on ladder either, however, except perhaps on consoles where hitscans can't be relied upon to deal with her. To be clear, I also think that balancing around characters that dominate on the ladder is decidedly the wrong way to go when it's the case that those characters dominate because of their ability to thrive against uncoordinated teams (like Pharah) since doing so ultimately diminishes the long-run advantages of being co-ordinated.

Honestly I wouldn't mind Pharah being retooled a bit to be more self-sufficient when there's no Mercy on the team if it means losing some of her synergy with Mercy. I don't really know how they would accomplish that but it would be a welcome change for me since I do a lot of solo queue.
 
T

TheDrizzlerJ11

Member
Papercuts said:
They were doing a lot of things with the hero since launch. The recent nerf absolutely destroyed him and all the previous balance work they did out of nowhere.
Click to expand...

What did they do pre hook 2.0? He used to be the least favorite thing to play against imo. Now that he requires teamwork to get anything done that's not a problem.
 
T

TheThinWhiteDuke

Member
weremichael said:
I really hide in the back and peak fire discord orbs and orbs of destruction and heal folks as they attack or defend (unless there is a Lucio then I stick near him). I sometimes do end up feeling isolated and unprotected and then I switch to Sombra and hack life packs to stay a healer of a short.
Click to expand...

That's how I played Zen last season, and it worked pretty well.
This season, though, I am instantly murdered by flanking Genjis, Tracers, and Sombras (and now Reapers, as well).
I've taken to buddying up with anyone near the back and using them as a meat shield when the flankers come for me.
 
R

rulerk1

Member
it's a videogame so im not really surprise nor care but i think every match I played in this morning had at least two middle schoolers in them. They also had good game sense to know what to pick and what was bad. One was kind of stubborn in choosing what the team needed but it wasnt too bad. Certainly better than the college aged trolls i usually had before the summer..
LiK said:
Pharah isn't an issue, imo. Pharmercy is tho. I dunno what they could do to balance that combo.



I'm up for Comp tonight.
Click to expand...

im down. Cant believe that dude had no qualms about leaving. Just up and left. We were winning too!
 
M

MKIL65

Member
I honestly do think Pharah is the issue, not Pharmercy. She should not be able to fly that high, it totally hampers your damage output as DPS.

That's really it. This is why she is tough to kill.

Then, when you don't pay attention, she quickly descends and lands 2 rockets in your face.
 
B

Blues1990

Member
MKIL65 said:
I honestly do think Pharah is the issue, not Pharmercy. She should not be able to fly that high, it totally hampers your damage output as DPS.

That's really it. This is why she is tough to kill.

Then, when you don't pay attention, she quickly descends and lands 2 rockets in your face.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I want to play more of Zarya and Mei in Competitive, but both Pharah and Mercy are hampering me to do so.

90% of my games have them appear in some fashion, and it's really ruining the game for me.
 
F

Fugu

Member
MKIL65 said:
I honestly do think Pharah is the issue, not Pharmercy. She should not be able to fly that high, it totally hampers your damage output as DPS.

That's really it. This is why she is tough to kill.

Then, when you don't pay attention, she quickly descends and lands 2 rockets in your face.
Click to expand...
Again, I'm going to assume you're talking about console, because on PC, If you're playing as a hitscan, a Pharah in the sky has extremely limited horizontal movement and is only marginally more difficult to hit than a target that literally isn't moving.
 
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