buy teh haloz
Banned
Well, yes. Most characters don't fit 100% into their class.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Overwatch |OT3| White, White, Blue, White
- Thread starter Dance Inferno
- Start date
- Status
Well, yes. Most characters don't fit 100% into their class.
oh shit. i hadn't thought of that. i believe you may be onto something.
Incendiary
Banned
Just played a defense map of Symmetra and the Five Dwarves. Won, but man it was boring. I was Symmetra of course.
Helden sterben nicht!
The matchmaking system seems to be tuned well at keeping people around 50 but it needs to work on doing that through even games. I find one-sided games to be fairly common and they're not really much fun for either side.
It's difficult to make many extrapolations since the matchmaking is entirely opaque but I feel that the priorities are a bit out of whack and, surely, there is no shortage of complaints of a similar nature.
Playing almost exclusively as Mercy gives me a lot of time to evaluate the performance of my teammates and sometimes it's befuddling the games that get put together.
It's difficult to make many extrapolations since the matchmaking is entirely opaque but I feel that the priorities are a bit out of whack and, surely, there is no shortage of complaints of a similar nature.
Playing almost exclusively as Mercy gives me a lot of time to evaluate the performance of my teammates and sometimes it's befuddling the games that get put together.
I don't get why players don't put priority on the payload. Payload seems to bring out the most stupidity. With 10 seconds on the clock why is 1 Zayra keeping 3 of my teammates off the payload? Why is the Reinhardt charging off the payload to enemies rather than staying near it and waiting for back up?
I was playing Pharah but I was the only one attacking turrets snd Bastion so I had a Soilder constantly on my ass while our Hanzo did nothing but whiff ults.
I was playing Pharah but I was the only one attacking turrets snd Bastion so I had a Soilder constantly on my ass while our Hanzo did nothing but whiff ults.
They are playing for fun. Their fun is sacred.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
i know we all agreed that levels dont matter but when a level 5 gets dropped into a match with level 80s-130s and they are basically dead the whole time you gotta wonder...
Red Arremer
Member
The problem I have with Zenyatta being classed as Support is that pub teams seem to think he is good enough as a healer to not warrant a primary Support in Lucio or Mercy. In other words, he's far enough removed from being support to not being able to fill that role in properly.
I understand every other character's classification except Zenyatta. He's an off-healer at best, but a damage dealer first and foremost.
Incendiary
Banned
Support =/= Healer.
Might have been grouped with some of the higher levels.
It's why healers should have their own category and actually have full on proper healers, and the supports that are like sym should be defense
He heals and does damage. Yeah that's more enough, for sure.
If only he had some other ability...
What if discord orb increased cooldowns?
Omega Kirby
Member
Level 108 now. I'm done with this game for now, kinda burned out. I'll be back when new content releases
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
I feel like it'd be kind of broken if it went past 2 sec cool down.
Also, this game completely died on my friends list. Like went from 10+ a night to like 1-2. People seem to be getting tired of it even though it's amazing! I played for the first time today since like Thursday due to work stuff though, so I can't talk much.
Weird.
Red Arremer
Member
As a support player, I am well aware of that, thank you. Lucio isn't a pure healer, but his speed buff and shield are also clearly support powers. Symmetra doesn't heal at all but her shields, teleporter and to a lesser extent her CC-focused turrets are clearly support powers. And Mercy's right click is a damage buff for her target.
And while all 3 other supports can do okay to well when fighting, Zenyatta feels more like he sets himself up rather than enabling his team. He's clearly built to do damage, he just incidentally also can heal and his debuff works for other teammates.
Am I really not making any sense at all?
petethepanda
Member
They need to make that an automatic POTG.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
I feel like confetti should rain down if you make the shot. It's so difficult.
optimus8936
Banned
That should be its own platinum trophy, easy, and automatically give you 50 free loot boxes.
just why blizzard?
what did I ever do to you except give you 10 years of wow subs, and I get fucked over by matchmaking and get the dumbest, first time using a mouse and keyboard, picking double bastion and no healer almost done games that will be losses to queue into.
It's starting to feel like some sort of sick psychological torture experiment they are running. How can people be this bad
what did I ever do to you except give you 10 years of wow subs, and I get fucked over by matchmaking and get the dumbest, first time using a mouse and keyboard, picking double bastion and no healer almost done games that will be losses to queue into.
It's starting to feel like some sort of sick psychological torture experiment they are running. How can people be this bad
LurkerPrime
Member
Zenyatta supports his team by keeping his allies alive, either by healing them, or ensuring that dangerous enemies die. He is a powerful offense or defense (objective) hero in the right hands, though remarkably fragile, and a skilled player will ensure that there's nowhere an enemy can hide to keep them safe. From a far distance, he can wreak havoc on the enemy's front line, while ensuring the allied front line holds. There is no question as to Zenyatta's role in Overwatch.
I guess I just don't understand this opposition to Zenyatta as a support hero. It's like saying Soldier should be support because he can heal, or D.va should be offense because she's like Tracer, a guerilla harasser. It is disregarding the big picture of the hero in question--as in, what they are capable of, as well as what they're capable of in a team.
Like, each class has its own broad definitions. Offense heroes are about assaulting the enemy directly--damage is what they do; they have limited utility and can generally do very little to aid allies or hinder enemies, outside of killing the latter. Defense heroes, meanwhile, have a bevy of skills to lock down areas, but lack the aggressive mobility of Offense. Tanks are sturdy and survivable, capable of harassing or deflecting damage away from their allies, buck lack in damage-dealing skills. Lastly, Support aids allies directly, keeping them alive and in the fight, while sacrificing most of their offensive and defensive capabilities. There's definitely some overlap, but overall each hero's classification is very clear.
That's not it at all.
Every time I go on a win streak the game starts putting me with the worst teams imaginable until I've lost quite a bit and then the cycle will repeat. It's ridiculous.
hahah, no.
I swear the PotG algorithm thats currently in the game is the reason for all the bad players since all they see is those "cool" plays from "cool" reapers, soldiers and hanzos etc. Yea I say "cool" because a good 50% of them that I've seen as of late have been lame plays from McCree for example where he gets a double kill with his ult but the reinhardt who pushed the payload solo to win the game or the mercy who ressed 3 people on objective and helped secure it got ignored.
If the avarage muppet saw more of these plays then perhaps it could make them go "gee that was a really cool move, I wanna try that shit out!" and that way the general quality of the game could slowly improve.
If the avarage muppet saw more of these plays then perhaps it could make them go "gee that was a really cool move, I wanna try that shit out!" and that way the general quality of the game could slowly improve.
Incendiary
Banned
I feel like you're really downplaying the debuff aspect of Zenyatta's abilities. Nobody else in the game has a real debuff - Widowmaker has her poison mines and Mei freezes, but beyond that Zenyatta is the only person that can affect status on the enemy team. And he has no cooldown and can essentially switch it to any enemy at any time. Plus, the debuff helps massively when doing damage.
He's clearly meant to be played more offensively than the other supports, sure. But that doesn't make him any less of a support. That's why his ult is essentially a super shield - it requires him to be on the front lines to protect his teammates. Got a Bastion in the corner that needs taking out? Throw out your orb of discord then throw up your ult to give your team a clear shot at him.
It's like support classes in D&D or an RPG like Final Fantasy. They don't have to be clerics casting regen and cure all the time, they can be casting things like silence or slow or other debuffs to help out the rest of the party to take the enemy down. And I really think Zenyatta is way more useful when other team members are taking advantage of the orb of discord, thus support.
I think the problem is public games are too disorganized to use Zenyatta effectively. Zenyatta requires teamwork and a plan of attack - if everybody runs around doing their own thing, Zenyatta is useless because he can't really heal anybody nor can anybody on the rest of the team take advantage of his debuff because any time he pops his head out somebody will target him unless there are other people to protect him.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
He is fine as support. While zenyatta heals only 30 health per second (compared to 50 from mercy), his range and ability to focus on doing other things simultaneously makes up for the shortfall. Both him and mercy technically require line of sight to heal for longer than 3 seconds (maybe 2 for mercy, not sure). And while mercy has an "escape", zenyatta can heal from a much much longer distance, needing less reason for an escape. Both have self healing mechanic (passive heal vs shields).
I'm definitely not arguing zenyatta is stronger than mercy, but in a good spot nonetheless as a support. He does work best as a secondary healer, but in the right composition I think he can hold as solo healer.
I think if you compare him to soldier 76, who is listed as an offensive character with healing, zenyatta definitely looks more support than off character, especially because his ult pours out the healing, I think 100 per second. You can top heal as zenyatta because of how good that ult is.
Special mention for orb of discord. If you think about it, that no cooldown, autohit ability effectively reduces the target's hp by 1/3rd if you 100-0 them with it on.
LurkerPrime
Member
Zenny's heal needs LoS? It explains so much.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It wears off after 3 seconds of no LOS, just like orb of discord. So it heals at least 90hp.
Red Arremer
Member
If his game was to be a stat changer rather than a healer, then why give him a fairly weak heal on the orb of harmony, and not give him a proper buff to his teammate? If damage and speed boosts are already no-gos because Mercy and Lucio have them, make it some other buff. CC immunity for instance would be pretty cool.
I understand that his orbs are supportive in nature, but so are Torbjorn's turret and armour, or Soldier 76's healing field. Does that make them support heroes, though? Someone else mentioned that he's supposed to be doing his stuff from behind the lines, and keep his teammates alive by taking out enemies - isn't that also exactly the same thing that Widowmaker and Hanzo are supposed to do? Wouldn't he thus make more sense being in the Defense class?
Again, you don't have to pretend like I don't understand what support means or that I'm implying that they have to have god heals. I'm perfectly fine with Symmetra classed into Support because basically everything she can do is support. I've been playing supportive classes in basically every game that has them - class shooters, MOBAs, even the example of D&D you bring up. I've almost always been the support hero there. It's what I'm good at, it's what I enjoy, and it's what I prefer doing if I have a choice. But Zenyatta doesn't sit well with me being classified that.
He's about as much of a support as that Ranger/Druid dual class who is mostly focused on dealing a lot of damage but also happens to have a CC/heal in his repertoire.
At least, I would like the "team tips" to say "too few support heroes" if only Zenyatta is picked.
That's another excellent point. His kit doesn't work well for what he's supposed to do (i.e. stay behind the lines), because he has to go front and center and then is a sitting duck.
Give Zenyatta a proper buff on his Orb of Harmony instead of the rubbish heal, and rework his ult to synergize with the rest of his kit, and I'll be glad to consider him a support.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I honestly think that transcendence is the worst support ult. It's still very good, but it puts zenny in the exact position he doesn't want to be in with no means to get to a favorable position. Lucio excels in a frontline group, mercy can just fly away and sym's can bring her victims who comes hunting for it while being one of the best utilities on defense.
You're right. Fuck at this point his ult should be gives harmony orbs that dont break line of sight for the duration of the ult to all his team mates regardless of where they are as long as they are in front of him
Zenyatta would be a lot better as support if the discord icon showed up for other team members. As it stands now you have to vocalize every opponent you stick it on which is just excess clutter speak during combat when an identifiable icon would work better for the team to know who to concentrate fire on.
Cynn
Member
Could be worse. I got play of the game once because someone killed themselves. lol Check it out.
https://youtu.be/9-W9hMY3DjU
Really? I stopped playing for this reason and was hoping it would get better after a couple weeks when all the casual players go back to CoD or something. :/
The fact that it isn't is weird given how good the game is with showing every little effect.
buy teh haloz
Banned
Overwatch is pretty casual.
They do see the smaller purple orb but not the red discord icon. It's pretty hard to see the orb but it's there if they're looking for it. The thing with the discord red icon is that you can see it through walls so it might as well be wall hack for a single target for the whole team if you expose that to everyone.
Red Arremer
Member
Then make it invisible for team mates who don't have line of sight. Problem solved. Since there's already line of sight mechanics in the game, it shouldn't be too hard to implement.
Nah, it's pretty lame. Majority of the games Iv had the past couple of days are vs full teams stacking a specific hero and my team not knowing how to counter.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll