Support NeoGAF

[SmartWaffles]

I lost to a team defending Dorado that had 3 mercys, 2 torbjorn and a Pharah.

3 mercys.

Help.

The gimmick teams seem to be the hardest to crack.

I lost to 3 mercys.

Get lots of tanks, 3+, they have no enough firepower.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Ok so what's Blizzard's reason for forcing everyone's winrate to 50% by making lopsided matches on purpose

I wouldn't be salty about losing at a 50% rate if games weren't so lopsided.

I had one night where I went 2-6 before I called it quits. That was awful, and obviously bringing my WL down. The next night I went 6-6 and it was actually legitimately fun because the games we played were real back and forth experiences and never terrible blowouts.

 

[Empty Space]

Neither one of these explains why it matches you with people 50+ levels lower than you. While level alone is not an indicator of raw skill, someone with a single digit level is less like to have general map/matchup/character knowledge.

There's going to be a calibration period if someone wins several games in a row and seems to preform well. The algorithm is probably going to over compensate and throw a person up a few tiers. This happens a lot in Dota 2 with smurfs they'll do extraordinarily well against beginners then get bumped up to the next major tier of skill and suddenly they get worked. Also whose to say a level 5 didn't simply play a ton of the beta?

Reading too much into levels isn't really productive. You could also be running into premade groups which cause problems too.

 

[ViviOggi]

It doesn't 'force' 50% winrate, that's the end goal of an appropriate MMR system, if you're winning a lot your MMR is rising and it's matching you against harder opponents.

That's the point

I've had my fill of this "forced 50" shit from frequenting the Dota thread for years, it's all but a conspiracy theory based on bias and no matter how much you argue it never stops

 

[Bots are better than you]

It doesn't 'force' 50% winrate, that's the end goal of an appropriate MMR system, if you're winning a lot your MMR is rising and it's matching you against harder opponents.

Does this matching to harder opponents include worse teammates too? Because that's how my games last night really felt like.

I'm not the best player, good grief, i'd call myself mediocre at best, so there's something really wrong if i'm top of the team and getting the most votes (even epics) afterwards ... i'd rather be the underdog in exchange for a better roster of allies. :]

 

[maomaoIYP]

Would someone be kind enough to give me a brief primer on how to play Roadhog effectively? I love his design, his legendaries are awesome, he seems fun to play, and yet I suck at playing him right now. When I try to tank I get mowed down so fast. I'm still trying to get a feel for his grappling hook's length.

Don't play him like a Reinhardt. Use him on flanks to pull enemies out from their positions. The hook has quite a lot of range but your 'shot' needs to compensate for movement too.

After hooking on you can hold your primary attack button to attack automatically upon hook release. The release can range from immediately in your face or about 1 body's length away.

For any victim who isn't a tank, a primary shot + melee should kill. To maximize chance of that hold forward when you release your hook as well. If the victim doesn't die, a second melee is much faster than trying to shoot again. If the victim is a tank, shoot twice instead of trying to melee.

The hook isn't foolproof, enemies with quick escape/defense skills can get out of it if the primary shot doesn't kill them. These include Mei, Reaper, Pharah, Tracer etc.

edit: Someone recommended hook, melee, shoot on the previous page. Don't do that. Melee cancels out the shoot animation, making it super fast. Raising your gun after your melee is impossibly slow.

As for your ult, don't use it expecting kills, it's meant as an objective clearing move. Also Bastion in turret form is immune to pushback, but vulnerable to the hook. If you go up against a Reinhardt, walk up to him to use your ult and push him back.

 

[nOoblet16]

Ugh, Reaper.
He was my main for a bit, but he's honestly useless imo. He does nothing for his team, and he's helpless unless people are distracting away from him. Yes he's deadly at close range, but he's harmless at any other distance.

So why don't you go close?
That's like saying an rocket launcher based character doesn't shoot shotgun for close combat.

Taking out tanks and support is doing nothing for the team? He doesn't have to stick with the team to do something for them you know. As a reaper you should always be aiming to get to a higher ground and then jump on enemies back to take them out. He's kind of like how Spy works in TF2 in that you travel behind enemies without being seen and then take out as many as you can starting from the back while approaching towards your team.

 

[Empty Space]

Does this matching to harder opponents include worse teammates too? Because that's how my games last night really felt like.

I'm not the best player, good grief, i'd call myself mediocre at best, so there's something really wrong if i'm top of the team and getting the most votes (even epics) afterwards ... i'd rather be the underdog in exchange for a better roster of allies. :]

In my experience when there feels like there's a skill disparity between teammates it means that those players excel at different things. Maybe you have great decision making, but they have great twitch skills. The matchmaking feels you belong together, but for very different reasons.

 

[kagamin]

I think I'm getting better at Lúcio, I'm keeping around a 70% win rate with him right now and I'm really feeling his wall riding mechanics a lot better now, I'm nailing a lot harder wall rides at good times and healing with amp it up at crucial moments to keep a push going.

 

[yanipheonu]

I really like Zarya but the more I play her the more I feel she needs buffs. You have to have perfect aim to be effective with the laser and the worst part is that getting her power to higher levels rarely feels like I'm actually doing significantly more damage. I get it up to 99 sometimes and with how hard it is to get to that point and how fast it drops off I expect to really shred through enemies, but nope I still need sustained laser in the enemy for a good long while. She's not strong enough in HP to really "tank" that much damage to justify you having to be at point-blank range for as long as you have to in order to get a kill. The barrier lasts a fraction of a second which means even if you time it perfectly to absorb a lot of damage, when it expires you're still being shot at and are likely to die super soon. The alt-fire does slightly more damage but with the tint splash damage radius despite the projectile still being a low arc severely limits its usability not to mention you only get 4 alt fires before you have to reload.

Her Ult still lets the enemies fire back at you as you're trying to kill them, and since I said before it takes a shitton of time to kill an enemy you once again have to hold a laser right in front of their face while 3 or 4 enemies stuck in the black hole sare free to shoot you in the face. You have to rely on some other character to do the bulk of the damage.

Gah, she's such a frustrating character. I liked her before but as I get better with other characters I have less and less reason to go back to her. Playing her feels like you have to work twice has hard to get half the results some other character gets, like say, Mei. Just compare the two Ults. Both Ults are AoEs that incapacitate enemies, except Mei's is actually good in that all frozen enemies can't fight back, and once all caught enemies are frozen it's headshot city and you get at least a couple of guaranteed kills. Zara's Ult is basically the same function but worse.

I just wish they made her gun more satisfying to use. Always feels unsatisfied to me, like I'm vaguely maybe damaging people with my stream of energy I guess. Even the hit marker kinda gets lost in the effect. I never really know how much damage I'm doing with her.

In general Overwatch has a bit of the problem in terms of conveying feedback to the player. Often I won't even know if I'm low health, I don't expect COD red jam all over my screen, but more of a clear indicator of low health would be appreciated.

Might just be coming off Destiny's clear indicators of damage numbers, and overall clearer UI. I'd actually be curious to see if Overwatch could pull of the Borderlands damage numbers. Make it easier to tell how much damage we're doing.

 

[Vol5]

Ugh, Reaper.
He was my main for a bit, but he's honestly useless imo. He does nothing for his team, and he's helpless unless people are distracting away from him. Yes he's deadly at close range, but he's harmless at any other distance.

He is squishy as fuck but if you keep him inside and within confined spaces he does his part. Dropping into a group with his ultimate usually gets results but the range is shite. I'm liking him but he's definitely a lone wolf. A lot of other players I've found back away fast from a reaper in a hallway or room for example. Shows that he has some respect in those specific areas.

 

[LurkerPrime]

I did liken him to the spy myself. The problem is his abilities aren't as well developed along those lines. His teleport is too slow and too telegraphed, and his ghost ability isn't fast or subtle enough for sneaking, instead mostly for laming it out in firefights.
As for the combos, almost any character can combo off of those alts. And several characters do it just as well or better.
He's such a lone wolf character in my mind. He's just does not seem like a sensible pick for most games.

His teleport isn't for use in-combat. It is primarily for misdirection and evasiveness--y'know, ducking around a corner and then teleporting to the other side, that sort of thing--especially since an enemy seeing it practically turns it into a free kill. And his ghosting is absolutely a last resort sort of thing, to back up to a health pack or ally, or to evade an enemy ult. Meanwhile Reaper's ult has some of the highest damage potential in the game, right alongside his weapons.

I think you're severely underestimating how useful he can be, from sheer offensive potential. Being able to knock out an enemy in a second rather than seconds is incredibly valuable--doubly so when it comes to tanks. And again, to reiterate, he is never meant to stand side-by-side allies duking it out; he strikes from behind, from above, from the sides--an unexpected spot, dealing critical damage.

In other words, Reaper is like Bastion... but with legs.

 

[m4st4]

I think I'm getting better at Lúcio, I'm keeping around a 70% win rate with him right now and I'm really feeling his wall riding mechanics a lot better now, I'm nailing a lot harder wall rides at good times and healing with amp it up at crucial moments to keep a push going.

I had one of those zen gaming moments with him yesterday - on fire the whole time, felt like I was untouchable and died maybe two times. When those moments happen you just know. Still, Symmetra is on top for me, 73% right now, sometimes I manage to kill Roadhog or Reinheardt with her..

 

[ramyeon]

Any games going on PS4?

 

[kagamin]

Went 17/12 today, not bad but worse than yesterday.

 

[Jblanks]

When you go tank but your Mercy damage boosts a Widowmaker the entire game, feelsbad. Still won.

 

[nOoblet16]

Yeah I do, Cause I play symetra like him sometimes. sneak up behind the enemy, and murder them all before they catch on.

What I'm saying is he adds nothing to a team. He has no real co op scenarios. A mercy link? Second you ghost you leave her to die. Reinhart? His shield doesn't work with your range. He's not even that good at running down snipers and turrets.Best he can do is run distraction, and grabbing a big kill streak once in awhile.
If you're playing reaper, your team pretty much better be kickass already imo.

You don't use wraith form to sneak up. You should not be with a Mercy or a Reinhardt in the first place.

And I don't know how you play Reaperif you think he isn't that good at running down snipers when he can get to them in an instant and one headshot kills them. It doesn't matter if his teleport is choreographed, that's why you use it from the side to flank so that you don't get seen while using it. It's impossible for a widow to notice you coming if you simply teleport behind her from the side.

You are trying to play from the frontlines, expecting the wrong combo and teleporting/trying to sneak from there...ofcourse it's not going to work.

 

[Kinsei]

Mcree finally clicked for me during this last play session. I managed to go 29-3 with him (we still lost though). Fittingly enough the next loot crate I opened was one of his legendary skins (Gambler).

 

[Romars202129]

Most of what you say is accurate, but it sounds like you're devaluing disruption a bit. Infiltration and disruption is important to clear a path so your team can advance.

As for pair-ups, Reaper seems to go well with meat-shield Roadhog, or a chaos causing Winston. Both of them can compensate for your vulnerability when you get in range, and wouldn't mind too much if you ghost out the door.

Disruption does have value. Just Reapers' particular brand isn't as useful as say, junkrat. or Tracer
And for those pairups, that's putting two close range characters together. Their strengths do compliment each other, but said strengths usually do the trick on their own, no? So many better hero's to pair up with Winston and Roadhog, I'm not quite sure where to start. For instance, I feel they'd work better together themselves than with Reaper.

The game is significantly more boring when there is hero stacking. it most definitely is not the same thing only better.

Difference for the sake of difference? Fine, Mercy then.
But, double Roadhogg means double hooks. Which significantly beats the incredibly slight close range attack power advantage the Reaper/Roadhog team up might have. Not too mention their double mid range options.

 

[Bots are better than you]

I had one of those zen gaming moments with him yesterday - on fire the whole time, felt like I was untouchable and died maybe two times. When those moments happen you just know. Still, Symmetra is on top for me, 73% right now, sometimes I manage to kill Roadhog or Reinheardt with her..

Is killing Reinhard with Symmetra something special, or am i missing some irony/sarcasm? At least on PS4, when i play Symmetra, Reinhard is like my favorite enemy. Turrets placed out of his reach eat him, and it's easy to circle him with the lock-on fire. ^^

In my experience when there feels like there's a skill disparity between teammates it means that those players excel at different things. Maybe you have great decision making, but they have great twitch skills. The matchmaking feels you belong together, but for very different reasons.

I honestly don't think i'm having any special skills in this game, maybe if you call "reading the objective" and "playing the objective" a skill, but i would call that the very core of playing a game. ^^

 

[Alucrid]

His teleport isn't for use in-combat. It is primarily for misdirection and evasiveness--y'know, ducking around a corner and then teleporting to the other side, that sort of thing--especially since an enemy seeing it practically turns it into a free kill. And his ghosting is absolutely a last resort sort of thing, to back up to a health pack or ally, or to evade an enemy ult. Meanwhile Reaper's ult has some of the highest damage potential in the game, right alongside his weapons.

I think you're severely underestimating how useful he can be, from sheer offensive potential. Being able to knock out an enemy in a second rather than seconds is incredibly valuable--doubly so when it comes to tanks. And again, to reiterate, he is never meant to stand side-by-side allies duking it out; he strikes from behind, from above, from the sides--an unexpected spot, dealing critical damage.

In other words, Reaper is like Bastion... but with legs.

And t Rex arms

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Would someone be kind enough to give me a brief primer on how to play Roadhog effectively? I love his design, his legendaries are awesome, he seems fun to play, and yet I suck at playing him right now. When I try to tank I get mowed down so fast. I'm still trying to get a feel for his grappling hook's length.

Stick and move, and learn to hook. Don't stand out in the open. Roadhog's got a lot of health but he's also a real big target. Keep your distance and use your right click while your hook is on cooldown. Try to hook squishy, high value targets. Many of them go down in one shot and are generally a bigger threat to your team than the other tanks. Believe me, there's nothing in the world more satisfying than hooking a Genji out of the air who thinks he's hot shit, and one-shotting him in the face.

There are only three heroes you really have to be afraid of in close quarters: a McCree who gets the jump on you, a Reaper at full health, and a powered-up Zarya. If you find yourself in a duel with another Roadhog (and this is important), let him hook you first. You'll both get that first shot off pretty much simultaneously, but getting the second stun will allow you to finish him off without a shot in response. A similar principle applies to McCree's flashbang. Honestly, a Roadhog with his hook off cooldown can 1v1 any hero in the game.

Finally, make sure you're abusing the hell out of your heal. You can recover an absurd amount of health on an absurdly short cooldown. Any time there's the tiniest break in the action, heal up. If someone is chasing you and you turned the corner, heal up. You're taking fire but help is on the way, heal up.

Roadhog has definitely been my most-used hero for a little bit now. He's super fun, and will probably remain my go-to until the D.Va buff makes her viable in more situations.

 

[Bumbletron]

Still, Symmetra is on top for me, 73% right now, sometimes I manage to kill Roadhog or Reinheardt with her..

Sym is awesome. I finally got the Car Wash by stacking 6 turrets inside the gate on King's Row. A Winston jumped past the gate right at the beginning, and I just destroyed him.

I've had a lot of luck against D.Va with Sym as well. Once you get that beam going, it demolishes just about anything.


Also, does anyone else feel Reinhart's hammer has a bit too much reach to it? There are times I would swear I'm nowhere near the thing when I get hit.

 

[1upsuper]

Don't play him like a Reinhardt. Use him on flanks to pull enemies out from their positions. The hook has quite a lot of range but your 'shot' needs to compensate for movement too.

After hooking on you can hold your primary attack button to attack automatically upon hook release. The release can range from immediately in your face or about 1 body's length away.

For any victim who isn't a tank, a primary shot + melee should kill. To maximize chance of that hold forward when you release your hook as well. If the victim doesn't die, a second melee is much faster than trying to shoot again. If the victim is a tank, shoot twice instead of trying to melee.

The hook isn't foolproof, enemies with quick escape/defense skills can get out of it if the primary shot doesn't kill them. These include Mei, Reaper, Pharah, Tracer etc.

edit: Someone recommended hook, melee, shoot on the previous page. Don't do that. Melee cancels out the shoot animation, making it super fast. Raising your gun after your melee is impossibly slow.

As for your ult, don't use it expecting kills, it's meant as an objective clearing move. Also Bastion in turret form is immune to pushback, but vulnerable to the hook. If you go up against a Reinhardt, walk up to him to use your ult and push him back.

Thanks a bunch! I'll definitely try this all out tomorrow. And thank you as well, Earthpainting.

And I just barely missed Rats Off To Ya's post as well. Really helpful advice, thank you.

 

[PatjuhR]

But with double Roadhog insteans of Reaper+Roadhog you miss Reapers Death Blossom.

Once your ult is ready you should get behind the enemy team on clutch plays and make a difference for your team more than a Roadhog can ever do.

 

[Nickdogmoneycash]

Just got a legendary Tracer skin. It's a shame I don't use her much

 

[sappyday]

Wtf did the player base on PS4 just fucking die? I spent the last 15 minutes jumping into skirmishes and then into games that don't have enough players and repeat.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

This title is the story of my life.

 

[Repo Man]

Wtf did the player base on PS4 just fucking die? I spent the last 15 minutes jumping into skirmishes and then into games that don't have enough players and repeat.

Think there might have been a server crash or restart. I just joined a game and it took a minute to find one and the estimated wait time wasn't available. [Edit] this on PC

I just took a look at the spreadsheet of pro settings someone linked back in OT2 and holy crap, how some of these guys play with 800dpi mouse tracking and ingame sensitivity of 3 or 4 is totally beyond me. I prefer setting mine up so that I can do a comfortable 180 degree change of direction with 1 move of my wrist but with these pro settings I can't even manage a 90 degree turn let alone 180

Each to their own I guess.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Thanks a bunch! I'll definitely try this all out tomorrow. And thank you as well, Earthpainting.

And I just barely missed Rats Off To Ya's post as well. Really helpful advice, thank you.

One more thing.

When you're playing Roadhog and you hear an enemy call out an ult, you don't run and hide. You look straight at them and hook them the fuck out of that ult. Pharah's a real easy one because she's completely stationary, and Genji is usually too busy being a tryhard to realize a hook is coming his way.

 

[ramyeon]

So does nobody want to play together on PS4? So sick of random rooms.

 

[PatjuhR]

So does nobody want to play together on PS4? So sick of random rooms.

I would.

 

[PayOffWizard]

Played my first match in a team last night with some gaffers and holy balls its like a totally new experience. So much fun and so intense. When i left we were on 6 win 2 losses.
I also set a load of my career bests, i think its partly because i was playing well but also having people call out plays and player locations helps a load.

Also, playing with mics instantly makes torbjorn irrelevant.

p.s. props to Laputa_94 and his mad tracer skills.

So does nobody want to play together on PS4? So sick of random rooms.

Quote the first post to find a google docs link with all the gaffers on PS4

 

[Jblanks]

When you go tank but your Mercy damage boosts a Widowmaker the entire game, feelsbad. Still won.

And the next game she stayed out of the fight (and healing) for like 90% of the game and than ran in when our team tried making a last ditch effort to move the payload to get the trophy for rezzing 4 people.. ugh.

I need to learn when to just stop playing , I was already mad enough for losing 80% of the games, but I thought I would play a few more to maybe win a couple, but made it worse.

 

[nbraun80]

speaking of sym, are you turrets timed or can you only have a certain number out or are they there til they die?

 

[GrandHarrier]

Believe me, there's nothing in the world more satisfying than hooking a Genji out of the air who thinks he's hot shit, and one-shotting him in the face.

This really is the best feeling in the game.

 

[1upsuper]

One more thing.

When you're playing Roadhog and you hear an enemy call out an ult, you don't run and hide. You look straight at them and hook them the fuck out of that ult. Pharah's a real easy one because she's completely stationary, and Genji is usually too busy being a tryhard to realize a hook is coming his way.

That is so badass. I have to do this now. It is my calling. My destiny. Your comment about Genji made me laugh so hard, thank you.

 

[Nyx]

speaking of sym, are you turrets timed or can you only have a certain number out or are they there til they die?

You can have 6 up at most.

 

[Twookie]

new ot already huh

annyeong

 

[Kinsei]

That is so badass. I have to do this now. It is my calling. My destiny.

It really is. You can also hook Junkrat's rip tire too.

 

[PayOffWizard]

Have you heard Night Rocker?

 

[1upsuper]

It really is. You can also hook Junkrat's rip tire too.

Oh shit. New main incoming.

 

[ElyrionX]

I don't see why everyone feels like they need a support every game especially if they're solo-queueing. I mean, sure, they're nice to have but in uncoordinated pub games, you can just as easily win games without a support on your side or lose them even with a support. There are plenty of variables to this. Thankfully, I have been seeing a lot of people fill the gaps in team compositions in my games these days. I've learnt to stop worrying about team comps and just go with the flow.

 

[maomaoIYP]

That is so badass. I have to do this now. It is my calling. My destiny.

Not all supers can be cancelled by the hook though, so you have to use it with caution.
Off hand, Torbojn and Bastion supers are immune to hooking.

 

[nbraun80]

You can have 6 up at most.

the achievement says 7 beams, so it counts your primary weapon then too?

 

[ramyeon]

I would.

Add me on PSN! ramyeon1989

Played my first match in a team last night with some gaffers and holy balls its like a totally new experience. So much fun and so intense. When i left we were on 6 win 2 losses.
I also set a load of my career bests, i think its partly because i was playing well but also having people call out plays and player locations helps a load.

Also, playing with mics instantly makes torbjorn irrelevant.

p.s. props to Laputa_94 and his mad tracer skills.



Quote the first post to find a google docs link with all the gaffers on PS4

I know about the list yeah, actually asked in the PSN message room but didn't get any response.

 

[Jblanks]

So I sent a message to that Mercy, he replied "trophy hunting, it's just a game fucking child". Yea I'll know to back out if I ever see that guy on my team.

 

[1upsuper]

So I sent a message to that Mercy, he replied "trophy hunting, it's just a game fucking child". Yea I'll know to back out if I ever see that guy on my team.

Games are for children, trophies are for men. What a delightful person he is.

 

[Bumbletron]

Don't know if we've covered this yet, but Junkrat's Tire can PICK UP HEALTH PACKS. That is a game changer. Has anyone tested armor/shields?

 

[Yam's]

So I've decided that I wanted to experience the joy of opening 50 chests without spending money (didn't help that I mostly got crappy loots from my first boxes).

I really hope that they will add a way to earn currency in the future. Like dailies or something. It really takes forever to get those boxes as of right now.