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Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo
- Thread starter GraveRobberX
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RandomExpletive
Member
Christ Ana makes Genji ults way scarier than they used to be 
Haven't touched comp yet, I fear for my rank
Haven't touched comp yet, I fear for my rank
buy teh haloz
Banned
Yeah just got booted from a game.
Hellshingu
Member
If he shot faster they'd have to nerf his damage quite a bit. People are up in arms abut his range falloff buff as it is making him shoot faster will cause even more issues.
Fallout Phoenix
Member
I love it when I get POTG as Mercy.
sounds good
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
You want her to one shot 200 HP heroes with a headshot?
As much as I love mei I think that might be a bit much.
LOL
Forerunner
Member
All those skins are terrible. Shame on you guys!
Okay, today is straight up bad for me. I can't play Mobawatch anymore, I get stuck in games with stacked heroes, my lootbox contains a highlight I dislike of a hero I dislike and then gives me a duplicate of that same hero highlight in the same goddamn box, and I think I may have won maybe only 2 or 3 of my 10-15 games today.
Today is not the day to Overwatch for me.
On the other hand, I bit the bullet and tried to play one match of Comp. It wasn't as horrible as the other one. In fact, it was pretty close. We still lost. but I don't mind that when we made them work for it. I'll see how many games like that I have and then decide if Comp is worth it.
Today is not the day to Overwatch for me.
On the other hand, I bit the bullet and tried to play one match of Comp. It wasn't as horrible as the other one. In fact, it was pretty close. We still lost. but I don't mind that when we made them work for it. I'll see how many games like that I have and then decide if Comp is worth it.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Because he's actually kinda bad?
Sigrun Mercy is the best skin in the game, don't hate bro
cause he's not great, and because that kind of needs to work that way anyways.
Forerunner
Member
I mean even ignoring that. His kit makes little sense to me. Like he shouldn't even have the repair with how poor it is.
It's like he has the repair because the TF2 engineer has a repair. But the TF2 engineer can repair through one non-direct hit soldier on his turret. Tobjorn can't repair through a support on his turret. So you might think, well he's supposed to be more dyanmic with his turret and not camp out on it because Overwatch is a much faster game with faster rounds. But then his turret should behave like the mini-sentry in TF2. But it doesn't. It takes far too long to set up and get up to level 2 for that kind of role.
I don't think that's the right way to see the balance here. A comparison to TF2 isn't good. In TF2 you will be facing off against many more players, and the situations are often different and more chaotic. Overwatch is a faster game, but with way less players, and tighter maps in general. Torb's turret is good for what it does, and it doesn't matter if "a support can kill it" because lets be honest, Zenyatta can be a turret buster with the right team dynamic, and Mercy can kill Bastions if she is well positioned and Rein's shield holds. Being "support" in Overwatch isn't the same as being "support" in TF2. The fact that several maps are designed specifically to give Lucio the advantage of being able to bump people off the map is a good example of how the support class functions more actively in Overwatch.
Man it's been so long since I got one of those. Probably first week I got three playing mercy and everyone being impressed with simple things like full team heals. The good old days when shit wasn't so toxic.
Don't rage when you encounter a Hanzo player with a hidechat in comp especially on KOTH. He won't see his teammates's chat begging him to switch out his hanzo.
A person who hides chat in comp wasn't going to switch anyway.
It's obviously not going to be a 1:1 comparison for a number of reasons. But the problem is that, and Blizzard has proven this with McCree, I don't think they're sure of a lot of characters identity. As pointed out in higher level competitive usage, Torbjorn is near nonexistent and has been that way for a while. Even Bastion has that he can move and shred team pillar Reinhardt's shield. But Bastion is in the same camp as Torbjorn that I don't know what the longterm plan is for either of those two characters
'People that kill noobs' has a short shelf life. And the idea of buffing Torbjorn being something that feels secondary and not his character identity like his gun would be incredibly disappointing but I don't know what else you do because the lockon speed is insane so you dont want to make that too good. But god knows you need that or Tracer will lose yet another counter. A buff to his armor providing would be an incredibly dull change.
Where as Bastion just needs another ability.
That kind of person was never going to change anyways.
Torbjorn has a way better gun than engi.
I actually think the argument that Torb shouldn't even be able to repair the turret is interesting, but it seems like you don't get that much benefit out of the change. Repair is useful when you win a fight and have breathing room. So you lose that and gain the advantage that new Torbs are slightly less likely to be bad. That would be nice but I'm not sure it's really required.
Torb is supposed to only place/upgrade/repair turrets while not under fire. As long as there are no enemies nearby you should basically be able to get set up anywhere pretty easily. That's why turret cooldown works the way it does, that's why upgrading works the way it does, and that's why repairing works the way it does.
Torb is really built around a guerrilla strategy that recognizes you will constantly be losing territory and that's okay as long as they don't get the last bit of territory before time runs out.
I guess I'm also one of the few people that think McCree is in a good place right now. Torb has niche uses that are good enough tbh, the turret kind of has to function the way it does or it would just be outright oppressive. Right now his identity is somewhere between a static damage dealer and a support and I think anythign moving him along those lines is fine. Bastion is probably fine too, he has quite a bit more wiggle room than some people might think. A lot of the characters being "bad" right now has to do with the meta more so than their designs. That can change in some other ways.
Like, if timers ever get shorter on payload (I suspect at some point in time they will) then characters like Torb are suddenly better in some type of strats. Lots of other shit to happen.
While I have had the moments of reprieve to repair, I would argue that you're already putting yourself at a disadvantage by repairing. As you mentioned, guerrilla warfare. No point in repairing your turret since they now know where it is and you'd be better off simply building a new turret near the point but somewhere else to surprise them with.
Only real time I can think of repairing is when the enemy team is trickling in rather than coming in together or in smaller groups and at that point, you've likely already won.
User 85168
Banned
I think at the current set up the turret is more for distraction than pure kill power. His gun is monstrous.
What if you remove the hammer, and give turrets self-heal when not under fire (say, if 5 seconds pass without it taking damage, self-heal begins). Encourage more Torbs to put themselves out there rather than sitting behind a turret. Also, they should just drop turret level 1 entirely and start it at level 2, but make it take longer to build. The level 1 turret is completely useless as it is, and no one leaves it at level 1.
It's weird, my best Hanzo games are when I'm getting pushed up against a wall and panicking. You'd think the best sniping I'd do is when I'm calm and in control of the fight with a good lead. But nope, it's when the whole team is coming down on mine and I'm panicking and shooting McCrees above me with headshots at close range.
He does have some of my favorite elmination lines, 'Haha... Perfect'
It is. Which is kind of why I wish his style was more akin to the mini-sentry style engineer. I definitely play my Torbjorn as a place it and forget it while I parade into the fray if the shit is at my doorstep. Usually if I'm engaging in a skirmish I'll drop a turret and hope they're too occupied with me that my turret has time to build and helps me do damage quick enough. Which is a fun way to play.
He does have some of my favorite elmination lines, 'Haha... Perfect'
It is. Which is kind of why I wish his style was more akin to the mini-sentry style engineer. I definitely play my Torbjorn as a place it and forget it while I parade into the fray if the shit is at my doorstep. Usually if I'm engaging in a skirmish I'll drop a turret and hope they're too occupied with me that my turret has time to build and helps me do damage quick enough. Which is a fun way to play.
Actually natural turret self-heal is a great idea.
The only quibble I have with your second point is that dropping a new turret during ult so that you can upgrade it really fast is a viable strategy sometimes. But if you made turrets self-upgrade as well as self-heal and the speed of both was faster under ult, that would still work. So yeah. Good plan, I think this would make Torb feel a lot more sensible to play. Just place the turret and it will IKEA itself while you kill people.
This would also let you change Molten Core a bit to be less of a noob stomper/reset button, which would probably be good. Instead of an immediate 800 health it could give a bunch of regeneration and make health into armor or something.
I mean, the way high level OW works is that pushes are pretty all in/drastic when they do happen. Torb's turret just exists to punish people who don't push fast enough or extend a fight too long. If they win when they push, Turret dies, you move back and start up a new one right away. The repair hammer really just exists to elongate how long a turret is going to be annoying if people can't keep focus on it.
Kind of the entire point of the character. Dropping 75 armor a pop is /insane/ and allows him to just stall shit out even harder, Molten Core just exists to stall shit out, the gun just punishes people that are caught out which usually happens from a stall or bad push.
Like, that's just his identity. Putting too much stock into the turret when if it slows people down at all it did its job. That shit is supposed to die fast and be hard to maintain for a reason, it's not exactly aimed at being a DPS or combat machine. It being slow to build just kind of works with OW's map and tempo.
Kind of the entire point of the character. Dropping 75 armor a pop is /insane/ and allows him to just stall shit out even harder, Molten Core just exists to stall shit out, the gun just punishes people that are caught out which usually happens from a stall or bad push.
Like, that's just his identity. Putting too much stock into the turret when if it slows people down at all it did its job. That shit is supposed to die fast and be hard to maintain for a reason, it's not exactly aimed at being a DPS or combat machine. It being slow to build just kind of works with OW's map and tempo.
My contribution to this as a filthy casual is this: Torb might be countered pretty easily by an optimized team, but the vast majority of players aren't that.
I've had Torbs who keep the turret in the same place all match...hell, I've BEEN torbs that kept the turret in the same place, and I was easily able to keep it alive via repairs and Molten Cores. I can't emphasize enough how I hate how Molten Core basically auto-wins any encounter first encounter. It doesn't matter what character you are, what kind of jump you have on the turret, if it Molten Cores, there's not a hero in the game that is going to take out it's instant 800 HP before it kills the opposing player trying to murderize it. I've tried everything, and the only thing that works is D.Va's ult because does it's stupid amount of damage and it'll still kill D.Va herself. The only time I've seen a MC'd turret taken out was when the ENTIRE team concentrated fire, and I imagine that's impossible even at higher level play because the rest of the opposing team will be shooting at you.
But even if a team decides to in fact go after it while you don't have Molten Core ready, it seems you can use that to your advantage as bait. Like, if the opposing team knows the turrets location, and you know that the opposing team will go after that turret, then you can use that to flank said team because you know where they'll be going. I've seen bastions position themselves around the corner because they know someone will go after the turret, at which point they murderize them.
But all that aside, it just seems foolish to measure the game by how the most skilled and knowledgeable players will react to it. Even assuming that it is utterly worthless to high level play, then fine, he still serves a great purpose to lower to mid level players, which will be the vast majority of any game's population.
its erryone piccking thur favurite heroes aand havving phun, hur hur
I've had Torbs who keep the turret in the same place all match...hell, I've BEEN torbs that kept the turret in the same place, and I was easily able to keep it alive via repairs and Molten Cores. I can't emphasize enough how I hate how Molten Core basically auto-wins any encounter first encounter. It doesn't matter what character you are, what kind of jump you have on the turret, if it Molten Cores, there's not a hero in the game that is going to take out it's instant 800 HP before it kills the opposing player trying to murderize it. I've tried everything, and the only thing that works is D.Va's ult because does it's stupid amount of damage and it'll still kill D.Va herself. The only time I've seen a MC'd turret taken out was when the ENTIRE team concentrated fire, and I imagine that's impossible even at higher level play because the rest of the opposing team will be shooting at you.
But even if a team decides to in fact go after it while you don't have Molten Core ready, it seems you can use that to your advantage as bait. Like, if the opposing team knows the turrets location, and you know that the opposing team will go after that turret, then you can use that to flank said team because you know where they'll be going. I've seen bastions position themselves around the corner because they know someone will go after the turret, at which point they murderize them.
But all that aside, it just seems foolish to measure the game by how the most skilled and knowledgeable players will react to it. Even assuming that it is utterly worthless to high level play, then fine, he still serves a great purpose to lower to mid level players, which will be the vast majority of any game's population.
its erryone piccking thur favurite heroes aand havving phun, hur hur
Really? I've just started playing her recently and I feel like the only thing she deserves is a little less health!
1-shot half the overwatch roster. people would be maaaaaaad lol
toastyToast
Member
I jump into quick play to try out Ana. Instant triple locked Hanzo RIP
veloxStrix
Banned
This new hero is pretty amazing. I really enjoy shutting down Pharah's and Tracers with them. Their ultimate is pretty crazy too. Lets me lock down whole areas. Wish the secondary fire on the revolver was a little stronger though.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Revolver?
veloxStrix
Banned
Yeah, the flashbang is really strong but sometimes I go to use the secondary fire and it feels way weaker than just headshotting.
Don Draper's Hat
Member
Something needs to be done about Sudden Death.
Just had a game on Hanamura where my team couldn't capture the first point, then they couldn't capture the first point. So Sudden Death, we get to attack that same point with far less time? Terrific.
The defending side should have less time than usual to set up their defences, or their ultimates should build up at a slower rate.
My team goes down a rank because we have 90 seconds to capture a point neither side could manage to capture in, what is it? 5 minutes?
Bullshit!
Just had a game on Hanamura where my team couldn't capture the first point, then they couldn't capture the first point. So Sudden Death, we get to attack that same point with far less time? Terrific.
The defending side should have less time than usual to set up their defences, or their ultimates should build up at a slower rate.
My team goes down a rank because we have 90 seconds to capture a point neither side could manage to capture in, what is it? 5 minutes?
Bullshit!
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
What site is this?
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