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Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo
- Thread starter GraveRobberX
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I'm watching the Rio Opening Cermony tonight and that happens in 1 and a half hours. So I'll probably be on much later. I'll join you if I see you on.
Mei's skill ceiling is actually extremely high.
Nobody at high level cares that heroes like Bastion aren't getting played. They mostly care about how Zen/Lucio nonsense is bonkers and the game is extremely fast and in the offensive side's favor.
Defensive heroes being weak has little to do with offense being favored. It has more to do with the maps/spawn rules and things like Zen/Lucio that make the engaging team basically always at an advantage.
Buffing defense heroes to that power level would honestly just make the game a lot worse or result in the opposite where they just gridlock everything. Low level players would also suffer a lot. Blizz should really just reevaluate the spawn rules and timers while also taking a hammer to Zen/Lucio to see what happens.
Nobody at high level cares that heroes like Bastion aren't getting played. They mostly care about how Zen/Lucio nonsense is bonkers and the game is extremely fast and in the offensive side's favor.
Defensive heroes being weak has little to do with offense being favored. It has more to do with the maps/spawn rules and things like Zen/Lucio that make the engaging team basically always at an advantage.
Buffing defense heroes to that power level would honestly just make the game a lot worse or result in the opposite where they just gridlock everything. Low level players would also suffer a lot. Blizz should really just reevaluate the spawn rules and timers while also taking a hammer to Zen/Lucio to see what happens.
MarioHead3
Banned
I see have taught you well in the art of sarcastic responses.
Now, go forth and change the world, my son.
I don't really think there's a need to get concerned about characters not getting play on the highest tier. I mean, why does a game with 22 heroes (and counting, probably will be 30 in a year), need to be "balanced" such that every skill level uses every single type of character?
Defense characters have a place - turrets, snipers, bombs, walls. What do these all share in common? They're things which can hinder the other team without the characters putting themselves in the heat of the action. This is helpful for players who prefer this style of playing, or for players who simply aren't very good in close combat. They can contribute to the team in their own ways, while staying alive. Having that option is great.
But when we talk about the very best players in the game who have great situational awareness and are also great at dealing in close quarters, able to attack well, move out of the way of attacks, etc, they will always shine more with characters who are purely offensive. Offense is the best defense after all. But that hardly represents all the players playing the game. Why feel the need for the balance of the game to be held hostage by the meta at the pro level?
Defense characters have a place - turrets, snipers, bombs, walls. What do these all share in common? They're things which can hinder the other team without the characters putting themselves in the heat of the action. This is helpful for players who prefer this style of playing, or for players who simply aren't very good in close combat. They can contribute to the team in their own ways, while staying alive. Having that option is great.
But when we talk about the very best players in the game who have great situational awareness and are also great at dealing in close quarters, able to attack well, move out of the way of attacks, etc, they will always shine more with characters who are purely offensive. Offense is the best defense after all. But that hardly represents all the players playing the game. Why feel the need for the balance of the game to be held hostage by the meta at the pro level?
I'll say that some things that happen at the high level do matter (I'll keeping saying Zenyatta is busted bullshit until he gets nerfed) and people should know that. But worrying about Torb and Bastion and shit not being there is p silly, yeah. Those chars are niche and benefit the lower teams more.
Also at high level the defined game speed is bleeding down which hurts defense too like I said. That's worth adjusting for overall game health and makes those defensive characters easier too.
Everything else is kinda whatever.
Also at high level the defined game speed is bleeding down which hurts defense too like I said. That's worth adjusting for overall game health and makes those defensive characters easier too.
Everything else is kinda whatever.
IceBringer
Banned
Finally bought it today and played a couple matches. It's really fun! I've only played tracer so far but I'm having fun with her. Tanks are a pain in the ass though. What stats should I look at to see if I'm doing good?
I'm interested in playing with GAFers to try and pull myself out of ELO hell (or just have some fun in quick play). Does GAF have any groups that play together that would be interested in one more?
Paltheos #1779
PC
Voice chat capable
Added, I'll help out when I can
I'd like to add that 2 of the tanks(Reinhardt and Winston ) don't even need aiming to be helpful, It's a conscious decision by Blizzard to make the game more appealing to those who are not very good at FPS games.
You try to place a fight winning wall in every team fight against a coordinated team, then manage to stick to somebody to freeze them. The poor girl has no DPS or mobility in a fight so her decision making and wall placement have to be stupid good.
EnvyUs vs Cloud9 (Beyond the Summit - winners' finals) starting now:
https://www.twitch.tv/beyondthesummit
https://www.twitch.tv/beyondthesummit
I won't even get that because the Top 500 thing wasn't active when I hit 76! Damnit. lol
Dead Prince
Banned
I'm interested in playing with GAFers to try and pull myself out of ELO hell (or just have some fun in quick play). Does GAF have any groups that play together that would be interested in one more?
Paltheos #1779
PC
Voice chat capable
I think ive played against you. the name looks familiar
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
I really need to get to SR60, highest is 58 so close. An extra 80CP would be great, 65 would probably be possible but I just don't play enough.
also, since people are complaining about being in a bad rank, the only suggestion I can give is to put on your tryhard pants. Activate those sweat glands and sweat your heart out. Play as the cheesiest class or the best class you have. Your goal in comp is too win.
I find this happens a lot with people is that they try to do too much or try to play cooly and fun instead of trying their hardest to win. Gotta activate those sweat glands dudes
I find this happens a lot with people is that they try to do too much or try to play cooly and fun instead of trying their hardest to win. Gotta activate those sweat glands dudes
MarioHead3
Banned
If you're sweating from playing Overwatch, you might wanna see a doctor.
sometimes you gotta sweat bro
sweat is a term I believe from gears of War where a player is being a "try hard"
As annoying as she is I kind of wish she got a minor buff. She actually changes matches which is absolutely needed in OW since most matches in ranked are so similar to each other. Well, perhaps not so in the ranks where I'm at but definitely in the pro scene (although I like that she's starting to see some use in there, I'm close to giving up watching pro OW since all matches are bludgeon fests).
Plus, if people desperately need to play as their favorite girl I rather their character is good.
I think Mei is getting better the more the game develops so I'm curious how well she does as is. I think if they buff her it could potentially be too good actually. Lower level players would definitely have issues there.
Speaking of, I hope to see her get pulled out in Kings Row for C9 vs Envy
Speaking of, I hope to see her get pulled out in Kings Row for C9 vs Envy
Yeah, maybe she's in a decent spot. It's hard to tell since the game is so new, but since she's been seeing some resurgence lately maybe she's fine as she is right now. If so it would be a shame to overbuff her like they did to Zen, who is currently seen in every game. More important then would be "fixing" some of the other mainstays like Lucio and Reinhardt. They may not be broken but I feel like they constrict the current games a bit too much, being respectively a huge shield and AOE healing which makes all teams group up. I'd love for a meta where teams are more spread out and skirmishes are slower.
I'd say Lucio is legit broken. I think Rein is okay, the game just needs room for fights to actually happen that don't require him to exist >_>
#ThrowSpeedboostUnderABus
The changes to the supports and the addition of Ana kinda did that.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
No.
LumpOfCole
Member
Mei's ultimate needs to kick in faster (or grow in radius) to get her moving to a good spot. Every good player can avoid a Mei ult these days.
Shake Appeal
Member
Even in the mid-to-high 50s, people pretty much play 2xOffense (at least one of which will be McCree, Genji, or Reaper)/2xTank/Lucio/Zenyatta.
You might sometimes see Mercy or Hanzo or Widow or Ana. The occasional desperation Bastion or Mei. Torbjorn one time in five on Defense. People break out Winston if Genji is pissing them off. But that's it.
You might sometimes see Mercy or Hanzo or Widow or Ana. The occasional desperation Bastion or Mei. Torbjorn one time in five on Defense. People break out Winston if Genji is pissing them off. But that's it.
I think Ana can be a great addition although she's not seen a lot in pro OW right now (and although I'm doing alright with her in QP I won't run her in ranked yet, and I haven't seen many others do that yet). NRG seems to like her a lot so she can potentially be a game changer as the game evolves and players put more hours into her. Plus she's damn fun to play.
Speed boost seems broken at higher ranks, but isn't used at all below them in my experience. I think they could remove that part of his E ability almost completely and the game would be better off.
That's kind of the point. The ult lasts a really long time and you basically get to say "this area is mine." If it gets set up in a combo with like Earthshatter or is put into a tight spot mid-fight it is pretty dumb actually.
great argument
Mei has a skill ceiling obviously, just like every other class, but that doesn't mean it's as high as a genji, tracer or plenty of the other characters that are all heavily used in comp play tournaments. She's lacking a huge movement option though, which is absolutely huge. Her most skillful playing ability is knowing where to throw walls (not that hard tbh) and aiming her icicles, which isnt the most efficient use of her character.
it's fine to play characters that doesnt necessarily have the highest skill ceiling, because unless you are playing the bery highest tiers of gameplay, it wont really matter. She just has the same problems the pyro has in tf2, where she needs to be up close to be useful, but doesnt have a movement ability to really make her all that useful to use.
LumpOfCole
Member
Eh I say Zarya's ult is still better in nearly every combo circumstance, partly because it takes effect so much more quickly. The area denial is nice but it doesn't seem good enough.
I mean you combo into Mei's ult. Zarya has like the best offensive ult in the game and set ups the combos, different uses
Her mechanical skill is low but that doesn't stop her macro skills from being really high up there. You're also heavily overvaluing movement. Yeah it's hella good on offense heroes and is even crazier atm cause Lucio/game speed problems exist. That doesn't mean non mobile heroes don't have good things to do in meta. Sym is still meta. Zarya is still meta and actually high tier with limited accurate range. It's possible to be a good hero without mobility.
As much as people compare this game to TF2 it's actually way different. I'm about ready for that comparison to die off.
LurkerPrime
Member
So is Lucioball actually like Rocket League, or is it just "Not Soccer" enough to draw comparisons? Because it's the first brawl gimmick I've legitimately enjoyed and it kinda makes me wonder if I should try Rocket League some day.
The defense matrix/ult buff did wonders for her. It was a really sweet change.
The defense matrix/ult buff did wonders for her. It was a really sweet change.
I mean you combo into Mei's ult. Zarya has like the best offensive ult in the game and set ups the combos, different uses
Her mechanical skill is low but that doesn't stop her macro skills from being really high up there. You're also heavily overvaluing movement. Yeah it's hella good on offense heroes and is even crazier atm cause Lucio/game speed problems exist. That doesn't mean non mobile heroes don't have good things to do in meta. Sym is still meta. Zarya is still meta and actually high tier with limited accurate range. It's possible to be a good hero without mobility.
Zarya is a tank class with 400 health and can protect others really easily along with one of the best ults in the game
Symmetra is a niche character used very rarely with one of the best ults in the game is used correctly.
Mei can freeze herself in place to get surrounded by the enemy team and can place walls as well as only having 200 health. You dont necessarily need speed to be in the current meta, but it's something that's clearly missing from most of the defense characters other then Widowmaker and Junkrat. Junkrats movement option isnt that reliable either.
SDhe has the same issue as Pyro had in tf2 where her main use is a random pick to maybe throw off the other team enough. The characters she's supposed to counter all can easily get away from her, and honestly, if you had the best player in the world on defense, would you rather him play Mei or Genji at the very highest levels
There's nothing wrong with playing these characters, especially the people on gaf as I doubt anyone here is a pc player that's super high. They can be effective up to a degree, but once again, would you rather your best player play genji or Mei. Genji has a much higher skill ceiling so you'd obviously want to play him a lot more.
also, TF2 and Overwatch are incredibly similar games. Anyone who's played either will tell you that (considerring most of the tf2 classes basically have characters that play incredibly similar in Overwatch too)
It's a class based team FPS. Only major difference is that Blizzard doesnt do 5CP. But they are incredibly close mechanically.
It's a class based team FPS. Only major difference is that Blizzard doesnt do 5CP. But they are incredibly close mechanically.
Terareflection
Member
It's just more interesting to see your favorite characters used at a high level. Seeing the same characters and playstyles gets boring for the viewership. I think if Blizzard really wants to tout the comp aspects of the game, it worth it to consider balancing the whole cast.
They might just add a cap to Lucio's heal to like 3 lowest health people normally and when he boost it extends to everyone nearby. Like the new aura paladins have in wow
Forerunner
Member
Nah, you guys leave Lucio alone.
On Kings Row I would rather them play Mei hands down. Not even joking. Hell Hanamura too.
His minuscule heal per person isn't what makes him OP. It's the fact that speed boost is such a game changer. Leave his heal alone.
dryuriev7777
Member
One thing I think we need is another character that can go through D.va's defense matrix and someone that can shut down Zarya's barrier. Double D.va is so incredibly irritating to go against because of alternating defense matrix on top of the big pool of armor they have on, and with Zarya I think having literally nobody that can hit someone that has her barrier is a bit much.
Here's hoping Sombra is a pure shutdown character. A character having the ability to prevent/shut down abilities, even if it's just a second or two, would be fantastic for putting on the pressure for the maps I'm god awful at like Temple of Anubis B.
Here's hoping Sombra is a pure shutdown character. A character having the ability to prevent/shut down abilities, even if it's just a second or two, would be fantastic for putting on the pressure for the maps I'm god awful at like Temple of Anubis B.
TF2 had only 9 classes, and valve could never balance out the competitive game to where more then 4 classes were used.
Right now, ive seen in basically 2 matches ive watched of this tourney
Zenyatta, Mercy, Lucio, Winston, D. Va, Reinhardt, Zarya, Tracer, Genji, Reaper, McCree, Pharah, Junkrat, and it's not like Ive seen all of the counter switches. That's more then half the classes used, which is actually quite a feat for a competitive game. This is also ignoring the random picks you'll see sometimes of Torbjorn, Bastion, Symmetra and Mei, and we usally see a widowmaker at some point.
Ana might start getting used once people learn her more (I think her anti-ult ability is killer, but I think a D. Va does what she does but better) and Hanzois used rarely, and most of the other classes are just kind of gimmicky classes that have their niche. I also used to see Roadhog a lot, but havent seen him today yet.
Seriously, I'm gonna be heartbroken if he ever gets nerfed.
Then maybe with your advanced strats you can tell these competitive teams what to do. We just had a kings row where teams ran Genjis instead of Meis! The absolute mad men!
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