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Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo

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A

Anne

Member
Kamion said:
It depends on the time you took to attack last time. Sometimes you get like 60-90 seconds to take Hanamura A for example. If the other team is any good, this is very hard.
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I mean on coin flip. On coin flip it is always the same time.
 
A

Anne

Member
Izayoi said:
How will games resolve without sudden death?

A draw?
Click to expand...

Probably. Payload is getting time bank system, and they are adjusting the timers in general to try and make draws less likely.

CSGO just allows draws to happen and nobody minds it in that game.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
X-Frame said:
On release when Widow was dominating PC (so I read), she was still worthless on console. The reason for this disparity seems to be because of how poor the aiming feels on console compared to other popular FPS games. It's just much harder to be precise. For those that remember Killzone 2, it feels like that. Input lag, Deadzones, Aiming Acceleration, whatever it is -- something needs to be addressed.
Click to expand...

I did use Widow pre-patch, and I don't think she was worthless. Opposite in fact, I was getting kills most times I got a hit, except I wasn't as good as aiming back then.

I have noticed a wierd deadzone in the aiming. I don't really care about that. It's unusual, but I can get used to it. It might also cause the reverse problem of making sniping too easy. I'm okay with sniping being a challenge from hell. I'm just not okay with it being a challenge from hell while also having no recourse for failing that challenge. Any character and their mother can outfight widow because the rest of her kit is so lackluster.

If they simply change the aiming and make it easy, she'll be a better sniper and that will make her more deadly, but it doesn't change that she doesn't bring much to the team besides that.
 
S

Soulflarz

Banned
Pixel Fist said:
The game might as well instantly hand the win to whichever team gets Defence from the coin flip.

Have they said anything about balancing this out in the future?
Click to expand...

They have, they said it's a very even matchup, and it was leaning towards attackers in the past which we can see from them cutting the time a little. However, attackers inherently have an advantage in overwatch due to how the game works in general with initiation.

Awkward.
 
A

Anne

Member
ROBOKITTYZILLA said:
I think that would influence character choice too much. I think it should just be a draw with either equal reward or use the time as a small extra bonus.
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It actually turns out that the idea of stopwatch influencing team picks is mostly untrue. The reason Blizz doesn't like stopwatch is they don't like the situation occurring where a games hasn't "ended" but it's impossible for one team to win.
 
R

ROBOKITTYZILLA

Member
Anne said:
It actually turns out that the idea of stopwatch influencing team picks is mostly untrue. The reason Blizz doesn't like stopwatch is they don't like the situation occurring where a games hasn't "ended" but it's impossible for one team to win.
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Yeah, that too. The other team would just quit if they couldn't beat the time. I guess they could always just end the game in that case.
 
N

Nudull

Banned
I was so afraid of fucking up with Lucio, after with my first match with a group, everything started to click for me. Thanks for the advice, folks. :)
 
V

Veelk

Banned
When no one can kill the Zarya whose charge is constantly at 100%

Gkr542V.gif
 
R

RemiLP

Member
So i was watching some random pro matches on youtube, and saw a match with this EU team Anox. And then i notice two of the names, cypher and cooller. And if you dont know them, they are probably among the best ever quake players, and The aiming and map controll needed in quake is way above any other fps.

Anyone heard of this team before, and know how they stack up against the very best?

Gona be interesting to see how good they get in Overwatch. There is no lack of talent atleast. Gona keep an eye on that team from now on :p
 
O

ohkay

Member
optimus8936 said:
The issue is really skilled players making new accounts that have much lower MMR than their main accounts so they are playing against people that are far worse than them and they just dominate every match.

Saying that they're "learning new characters" is a terrible excuse because they could literally just play QP so they don't lose rank and they can still learn new characters.

Stomping in every game is a terrible way to learn new characters anyway.
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The point, outside of trying to cheat the matchmaking system to easily climb, is to try characters that you wouldn't do well with at your current skill rating, and therefore be penalized for playing that character. Quick play is only a place to test your mechanics with a character, it doesn't necessarily tell you how you'll work with a team, considering most people don't work as a group in QP and there are ridiculous strategies because of hero stacking.

Nudull said:
Anyone have any tips on playing Lucio properly? I tried him out in training a while ago, but he seems a bit weird to handle.
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You have two purposes: make sure you are in line of sight and in healing range with as much of your team as possible and don't die. It's mainly just knowing where to position yourself so you won't get picked while maximizing healing.

In order to survive, jump/wall ride as much as possible, use your pushback to get people off you, and turn on speed boost if you have to.

Also, save your ult for the right time. If you're defending, use it if you think you're gonna lose a team fight and can save most of your team with it, or if the opposing team is using their offensive ults (like zarya, reaper, genji). On offense, save it for a big push to give your team the advantage, or if it looks like your team is gonna lose a fight.

Learn when to use speed boost. This is mainly instinctual, but if your team isn't in need of healing, speed boost is normally beneficial. Other than that, make sure you turn it on if the enemy is using an ult that requires line of sight, like D.Va's, McCree's, Soldier's, etc. Also, turn it on for your teammates ults that could benefit from it, like Reaper, Soldier, Genji, etc.

Edit: also make sure to shoot as much as possible, and keep your eyes out for what the other team is doing. Shooting at people your team don't see might alert them to enemy positions, and doing some poke damage is never a bad thing.

Speed boost is good to use if your entire team is pushing onto a point too. The rush catches a lot of groups off guard.
 
C

Copenap

Member
X-Frame said:
I agree -- but I think if they tweak Widow directly it's them addressing the symptom of the problem rather than the cause.

On release when Widow was dominating PC (so I read), she was still worthless on console. The reason for this disparity seems to be because of how poor the aiming feels on console compared to other popular FPS games. It's just much harder to be precise. For those that remember Killzone 2, it feels like that. Input lag, Deadzones, Aiming Acceleration, whatever it is -- something needs to be addressed.

If they were going for "heaviness" feel like KZ2, that argument seems to go out of the window when you factor in PC with aiming so accurately with high sensitivity with a mouse.

Once they "fix" console aiming, it should be much easier for them to balance console vs. PC. Obviously it never will be 1:1, but if the aiming on Console felt like Destiny or COD then it'd be a lot closer.

I apologize if I sound like a broken record on here since I bring this up a lot, but it is definitely the most important console balancing issue right now.
Click to expand...
CoD? Stay the hell away with your aim assist. There is nothing wrong with OW controller aiming, a controller will just never be as precise as a mouse and thus snipers are useless in every console game ever.
 
A

Anne

Member
RemiLP said:
So i was watching some random pro matches on youtube, and saw a match with this EU team Anox. And then i notice two of the names, cypher and cooller. And if you dont know them, they are probably among the best ever quake players, and The aiming and map controll needed in quake is way above any other fps.

Anyone heard of this team before, and know how they stack up against the very best?

Gona be interesting to see how good they get in Overwatch. There is no lack of talent atleast. Gona keep an eye on that team from now on :p
Click to expand...

Anox is top 5 EU actually.
 
W

Wyndstryker

Member
ohkay said:
You have two purposes: make sure you are in line of sight and in healing range with as much of your team as possible and don't die. It's mainly just knowing where to position yourself so you won't get picked while maximizing healing.

In order to survive, jump/wall ride as much as possible, use your pushback to get people off you, and turn on speed boost if you have to.

Also, save your ult for the right time. If you're defending, use it if you think you're gonna lose a team fight and can save most of your team with it, or if the opposing team is using their offensive ults (like zarya, reaper, genji). On offense, save it for a big push to give your team the advantage, or if it looks like your team is gonna lose a fight.

Learn when to use speed boost. This is mainly instinctual, but if your team isn't in need of healing, speed boost is normally beneficial. Other than that, make sure you turn it on if the enemy is using an ult that requires line of sight, like D.Va's, McCree's, Soldier's, etc. Also, turn it on for your teammates ults that could benefit from it, like Reaper, Soldier, Genji, etc.
Click to expand...

Pretty much this, Lucio's ult is extremely good at keeping people alive when in desperation. Last night had a really good match and the other team managed to pull off a Zarya/Genji ult combo on our team. Managed to get the ult off right when the Zarya ult landed so the whole team got protected. Only 2 people died when normally that should be a full team wipe.
 
C

Copenap

Member
RemiLP said:
So i was watching some random pro matches on youtube, and saw a match with this EU team Anox. And then i notice two of the names, cypher and cooller. And if you dont know them, they are probably among the best ever quake players, and The aiming and map controll needed in quake is way above any other fps.

Anyone heard of this team before, and know how they stack up against the very best?

Gona be interesting to see how good they get in Overwatch. There is no lack of talent atleast. Gona keep an eye on that team from now on :p
Click to expand...
I believe Anox won one of the gosu gamers weekly a couple weeks back as an underdog and then proceeded to lose the next weeks against teams they were the favourite against. This could also be completely incorrect.
 
D

Deadpandas

Member
Veelk said:
I don't think it can be realistically understated how abjectly worthless Widowmaker is now on consoles. She's literally one of the most useless characters right now. Torbjorn is more useful than her.

I am not a great player by any means, but I have my moments. When I play Widowmaker well, I still feel laughably limited in my contribution. The most I can say is that when I hit someone, I do a fair amount of damage, instant kill if it's a headhshot. But hitting enemies is REALLY REALLY hard as Widowwmaker. At a distance, at an elevated angle, they're all tiny dots. And they have SO many recovery options. They can get out of my line of sight, pick up a health pack, self heal, have a healer heal them, use an ability to block my shots. The worst is that so many characters can outgun her though. Like, Widowmaker should theoretically be a counter to Pharah, but because she's so difficult to hit, AND that pharah's missiles can fuck with your positioning, a pharah will win out most times. A soldier can just lightly shoot in my general direction while strafing a bit while I have to line up my sight. A genji or McCree can headshot her from a distance if they are outside her narrow field of vision. The number of counters she has are beyond count.

Now, you might be thinking that all snipers suck in this game. But this isn't the case. Hanzo is an objectively worse sniper, but he still is super useful as a mid-long range fighter, either by spamming arrows so his allies who are closer might get an easier kill, or just being a really high damaging midrange fighter. His scattershot can take out many characters instantly. His sonar Arrows are what Widow's Ult is, which is just insulting. Then there's Ana. Her rifle can shoot faster. She has the sleeping dart and the grenade trick. She can be a great asset if the player in question knows how to play her right. Again, maybe not even as a sniper, but a back line fighter that is healing and hurting and putting to sleep and nanoboosting.

Compare that to Widow's tool kit. Her sniper rifle is the best in the game, but it's hampered by the fact that sniping is really difficult to do. Characters taht are speedy are nigh impossible to hit and characters who are large and slow can tank your shots. She can use her grapple once every 12 seconds, so she doesn't have much in the way of mobility. She has a poisonous mine she can set, that definitely helps but can't kill anyone by itself, and she can only plant one in a 15 second span. This mine is impractical to use in the heat of combat itself, since after fired, it takes a bit to set itself up, before proximity can affect it. Her main firing mode, an assault rifle, isn't worthless, but it's on the weaker side of DPS. And her ult is completely passive. Wall Hacks help, but not to the extent that they should. I would argue they primarily benefit her teammates rather than herself, because even with wallhacks, aiming is goddamn hard.

She needs a boost, and I don't think just getting her 150 body shot damage is enough. She needs to be more mobile by shortening her CD on her grapple or more HP, because anyone who merely knows her position has an extreme advantage over her. She needs her mine to be more usable. Either do more damage or let her set up two of them. And her ult needs to have some kind of damage benefit. Hanzo can unlease the dragons, Ana can supercharge an ally....Let Widow make her headshots easier.

At this point, it's not a matter of 'git gud'. If the only way to be a good Widowmaker is to get headshots with nonstop frequency, then that's just not going to work.
Click to expand...
wtf Widow is amazing
 
U

User 85168

Banned
Has there been any word from Blizzard about LucioBall hero abuse? What little incentive I had to play LucioBall is gone because every other game there's someone who thinks it's really fun to switch heroes and ruin the game.
 
S

SmackAttack

Member
Nudull said:
tfw you save everyone from a self-destruct with Lucio's ult. ;u;
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It's a pretty great feeling, isn't it? I felt like celebrating the first time I did that and my team gave me all the votes at the end likely for it. You done good.

I had a good 4 straight wins in Competitive (solo) where all the teams I was on were clicking perfectly. Half of the enemy teams quit after Round in two of those games after being shut down hard. Then took a loss because someone switched from being a useless tank to a useless healer and no one seemed to pick up their slack which was a bummer.
 
S

Sn4ke_911

If I ever post something in Japanese which I don't understand, please BAN me.
Chi said:
Has there been any word from Blizzard about LucioBall hero abuse? What little incentive I had to play LucioBall is gone because every other game there's someone who thinks it's really fun to switch heroes and ruin the game.
Click to expand...

Yeah they know about this bug.
 
O

onepiecefan

Member
Will there be select game on this? Would be awesome, it can be annoying joining games where the opponents are seconds from victory or when you keep getting the same maps etc.
 
E

ExMachina

Unconfirmed Member
Soulflarz said:
Yes. A lot of people reach 65 by luck. Hell, we placed my friend at...64? and we won 3 more throwing him to 66 even though his marks with the tank he used put him at 20th percentile. Hilarious that hes gonna get 300cp, pretty cool!

But yes most people in the 60s think they're really good even though tbh I didn't notice any skill difference till high 60s/into the 70s. You can reach 65 being at the skill of a 50 with a good group. The issue is people see it and go "wow I nearly hit 65 that makes me so good!" when it means nothing necessarily.
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I have a friend who placed 65, so she's played a grand total of 2 hours of competitive. It's pretty funny that she'll get 300 CP for that. :p

Nudull said:
I do not envy people with headphones when playing comp. That shot must be depressing.
Click to expand...

Eh, it's just a part of any team-based game and it has its ups and downs.

Sometimes you'll get awesome people who are positive on the mic. Any kind of shot calling makes a huge difference and praising good plays keeps the team's morale up and prevents tilting.

And then sometimes you run into someone whose salt is off the charts. They spend their time berating the team and highlighting any missteps, lol.

I'm lucky that the group I queue with has a pretty good attitude about it - of course getting the former is better, but we can laugh at the latter case.
 
L

Lan Dong Mik

And why would I want them?
sorry if this has been covered, but is lucio games just totally broken right now? I just tried it and there was a hanzo on the other team.
 
T

The Antitype

Banned
That Slice N Dice achievement popped. A day late, but still happy to have it.

Interestingly, the achievement for interrupting a special with Ana's sleep dart also popped... and I don't remember ever doing that. Which you think I would, since I've played a grand total of 2 matches with her.....


Whatever. I'll take it.
 
S

Sn4ke_911

If I ever post something in Japanese which I don't understand, please BAN me.
Lan Dong Mik said:
sorry if this has been covered, but is lucio games just totally broken right now? I just tried it and there was a hanzo on the other team.
Click to expand...

Yeah Lucio Ball is bugged right now, plenty of people abuse it by choosing heroes that aren't Lucio.

Probably best to not play this mode until they fixed it.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
There is a certain method of torture that is like extreme good cop, bad cop. Where you put the subject through periods of pleasure between misery. It makes sure they're never acclimated to the pain. Overwatch is that in game form.

Lose, lose, win, lose, lose, lose, lose, win, lose, lose...
 
P

petethepanda

Member
The tracking for assists in Lucioball is kind of like, nonexistent? Not that it really matters with a limited brawl, but the part of me that subconciously tries to treat it like Rocket League gets frustrated :lol
 
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