• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo

Status
Not open for further replies.
Wrong blizzard game. :p

Wrong thread? Lol

Everyone deserves to know!

yes, I was refreshing hearthstone thread and I was like... where'd my post go. I have like 6 different threads open facepalm

Damn Overwatch sure looks different now. New patch? Don't know if going card game is going to work out for them...

The sercret is out. I might as well come clean. I am playing on the new PTR.
 
Damn Overwatch sure looks different now. New patch? Don't know if going card game is going to work out for them...
They saw how well it worked for Witcher and decided to make their own card mini game. They plan on making it into a full game once it becomes popular.
 
Everyone deserves to know!

yes, I was refreshing hearthstone thread and I was like... where'd my post go. I have like 6 different threads open facepalm



The sercret is out. I might as well come clean. I am playing on the new PTR.
It's okay. I accidentally posted about porn in a destiny thread by accident. One of the thread mentioned someone was watching porn and they heard it on mic. I think it was this thread? Lol
 
It's okay. I accidentally posted about porn in a destiny thread by accident. One of the thread mentioned someone was watching porn and they heard it on mic. I think it was this thread? Lol
I remember that. 'Twas odd.
im pretty sure it was in the destiny thread that people heard porn on mic, it's a running joke with DGAF.
 
Oh. Weird. Why was i even in there lol. I don't even own the game outside vanilla. Anyway.

Forgot to play rank tonight but by God was tonight just off in quick play. So many losses.
 
I did it, solo from 52 to 60. It took 56 wins with a 55% w/l. I don’t see myself getting into the 70s without a team, but we’ll see. The season is still early.

I9ABP88.jpg
 

caesar

Banned
Based on my experience, if you want to win, pick lucio.

If I first pick lucio usually my team cant do enough dps to win. Pick Tracer do 20k dmg and the lucio doesn't understand that you need to actually use the speed boost, or when to use sound barrier.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
If I first pick lucio usually my team cant do enough dps to win. Pick Tracer do 20k dmg and the lucio doesn't understand that you need to actually use the speed boost, or when to use sound barrier.

No joke though, had a rank match on ilios with the well. My team kept getting wiped out but i just stayed contesting the point for a good few minutes until my teammates get their bearings and take first point. Couldn't believe that the other team couldn't take me out alone during all that. I sometimes wonder about the skill level of the games I'm playing in.

Didn't even try wall riding the well to go unnoticed. The other team's 2 roadhogs really want me to do it though, but they also keep forgetting a) that lucio can get out of that and b) to shoot. They just kept going for well kills.
 

Satch

Banned
i had some shitter on my team for one game and he was saying i was a bad healer. after we lost i told him to enjoy dropping ranks

next game he was on the enemy team and well..... :)
 
Obviously late to the discussion but I think anyone could agree there's something fundamentally wrong with the way overtime works when it lasts longer than the actual match. Competitive/pro play makes it ludicrously obvious, but you could see it in casual matches too. Seems like a too heavy-handed 'thumb on the scales' approach to try to artificially foster 'close' matches.
 

xviper

Member
i play on ps4 and i have played for over 90 hours but i have not yet heard even one guy in voice chat, is there a glitch or something ?? how do i turn on the voice chat for my team, when i go to options>sound the Group and Team voice chat are both on AUTO JOIN, competitive is unfair, when i play alone i get matched against a team of 6 players who are a group and my team have zero groups
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Yeah the stat sites have been a little wonky after ranked, to say the least.

I had a REALLY busy minute apparently.

JW3XdSw.png
 
Yeah the stat sites have been a little wonky after ranked, to say the least.

I had a REALLY busy minute apparently.

JW3XdSw.png

For all we know its working as intended. How do you hand out wins if a person plays 5 different heroes in a five round game? Which character gets the 'win'?
 

exYle

Member
I just had the most wonderful experience with randoms in solo queue Ranked. Four of them had mics, they switched roles when they needed to, they grouped up when I asked them to, ults were co-ordinated... it was a dream come true

Didn't even rank up
 

Blizzard

Banned
Usually competitive games are pretty good for me. I had great teamwork one game. The next two have been bizarre though -- there has been ZERO communication except from 2 / 12 players in both matches, besides maybe a couple of "Acknowledged".

Usually in my games, there are at least one or two people on voicechat or textchat trying to coordinate (and possibly failing).
 
4 gold 1 silver. Why should I lose half a rank? It's really a bummer how much actual thought they put into how you lose and gain rank. It's 100% wins and losses.
 

Sande

Member
I started playing recently and I'm sooo happy to see that they're nerfing Torbjörn's turret on consoles. Although instead of reducing the damage, I would have liked to see slower turning speed or a blind spot. Getting instantly shredded by the turret even when you sneak up on it is my biggest problem with it.

Blizzard need to be really careful with anything with auto-aim on consoles since shooting is so much more difficult than it is on PC. Reacting somewhat fast to Torbjörn gives me hope. 30% damage reduction is massive though, might be an overkill.
 
4 gold 1 silver. Why should I lose half a rank? It's really a bummer how much actual thought they put into how you lose and gain rank. It's 100% wins and losses.

It's a team game. As frustrating as it can be, no matter how well you did, you weren't enough to carry your team against the other.
 
It's a team game. As frustrating as it can be, no matter how well you did, you weren't enough to carry your team against the other.
So the dude who did horrible losses the same amount of rank? It just doesn't make sense. It's my individual rank. It'd be nice if it took personal performance into account even a little bit.
 

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
So the dude who did horrible losses the same amount of rank? It just doesn't make sense. It's my individual rank. It'd be nice if it took personal performance into account even a little bit.
How do you discern this? Gold medals? Cant do that because you could get a gold medal on dps with 4 kills in a stomp, or on lucio you can get a gold medal in healing from doinig absolutely nothing. What criteria can you use that wont be exploited? Some champs barely get any medals or will only get high scores in one category, such as mercy, do you create a metric for every champion wherein, if you exceed a certain pont, you get extra xp?

You cant make it class based because some people in the class do aoe, some do single target, a soldier will have more damage than most, you cant make it accuracy based because widows would benefit too much.

Its the cleanest way to make it game based, as much as that might suck in individual games.
 
How do you discern this? Gold medals? Cant do that because you could get a gold medal on dps with 4 kills in a stomp, or on lucio you can get a gold medal in healing from doinig absolutely nothing. What criteria can you use that wont be exploited? Some champs barely get any medals or will only get high scores in one category, such as mercy, do you create a metric for every champion wherein, if you exceed a certain pont, you get extra xp?

You cant make it class based because some people in the class do aoe, some do single target, a soldier will have more damage than most, you cant make it accuracy based because widows would benefit too much.

Its the cleanest way to make it game based, as much as that might suck in individual games.
Oh come on...

4 rounds of KOTH gold in every category except for a silver in objective time. It'd be hard to argue I didn't 'belong' in that game with people at those levels. But we also lost pretty bad 1-3. So some people definitely didn't belong. It just sucks that because of the team I was dealt, that now applies to me as far as the game is concerned.

Is what I'm saying really that outrageous? Seems like such a better way to do it. Rank me down if you want, but half a level? And then when we stomp one round, clearly headed for a win, half the opposing team leaves so we get basically nothing. I think it's okay to say that the system needs some work...
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Oh come on...

4 rounds of KOTH gold in every category except for a silver in objective time. It'd be hard to argue I didn't 'belong' in that game with people at those levels. But we also lost pretty bad 1-3. So some people definitely didn't belong. It just sucks that because of the team I was dealt, that now applies to me as far as the game is concerned.

Is what I'm saying really that outrageous? Seems like such a better way to do it. Rank me down if you want, but half a level? And then when we stomp one round, clearly headed for a win, half the opposing team leaves so we get basically nothing. I think it's okay to say that the system needs some work...
W/L is the best way, get over it
 

DeSo

Banned
So is Tracer the new meta? Seems I see one every game now. Does she even have a hard counter? If I'm playing Mercy I'm constantly getting harassed by the annoying cunt.
 
So is Tracer the new meta? Seems I see one every game now. Does she even have a hard counter? If I'm playing Mercy I'm constantly getting harassed by the annoying cunt.

Counter/strong against tracer:
roadhog (hook, short cooldown, plus able to outheal her DPS while healing, gunfire can take her down in 1 solid shot too)
Lucio (but not for killing 1v1 typically in my experience, but he can self heal and knock back to really interrupt her dps, plus the damage off his primary fire can force her to back off)
Zarya (prevents her picks, plus instant damage from left click, kinda like lucio not exactly a killer of tracer but that is tracer's strong point)

Also I'd say these do okay, depending on the situation:
McCree
Pharah
Junkrat
soldier 76

I think there might be more noteworthy characters. It's hard to say someone hard counters tracer because her strong point is survivability. It's really burst damage that counters tracer hard. And I don't think enough people have learned tracer because once you do you'll pick up on a lot of tips of how to deal with tracer as well.
 
So is Tracer the new meta? Seems I see one every game now. Does she even have a hard counter? If I'm playing Mercy I'm constantly getting harassed by the annoying cunt.

Roadhog is pretty good against her. If you can hook her and she doesn't have recall up she's basically dead.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Tracer is scum cancer of hell, at least I can fly in the air and give Mercy a place to not die for a few seconds.
No thanks. I appreciate the suggestion though.
Do you accept that you are the constant and it happens on the enemy team as well?

I had one of your games yesterday. It comes down to how much you want to be invested to ranking up. Part of that means skills such as convincing your team to change, swap, push as 6, shot call a player advantage or rez advantage, or RoadHog Hook cooldown to your team, a pressured sniper, so people will move through a choke, etc.

If I'm serious about winning a game I will advise our team comp in spawn, say to push left/right -> high ground, or make openings for a team that won't get on the point by solo flanking to backcap and force rotations.

Improve your gameplay and shotcalling first and it might make you less frustrated.
Just kidding I get mad as fuck still
 

FiraB

Banned
Man I hate when people cheat outright.

Had a pharah that was invincible, laid an entire missile barrage into her and nothing. The junker blew a tire-bomb up in her face, nothing and a genji laid into her and...nothing.

Really like the game but cheats really piss me off.
 
Tracer is scum cancer of hell, at least I can fly in the air and give Mercy a place to not die for a few seconds.

Do you accept that you are the constant and it happens on the enemy team as well?

I had one of your games yesterday. It comes down to how much you want to be invested to ranking up. Part of that means skills such as convincing your team to change, swap, push as 6, shot call a player advantage or rez advantage, or RoadHog Hook cooldown to your team, a pressured sniper, so people will move through a choke, etc.

If I'm serious about winning a game I will advise our team comp in spawn, say to push left/right -> high ground, or make openings for a team that won't get on the point by solo flanking to backcap and force rotations.

Improve your gameplay and shotcalling first and it might make you less frustrated.
Just kidding I get mad as fuck still
Oh I'm generally very happy. I've gotten good teammates. I don't think I'm anything special at the game and I've been able to go from 50 after placement to 57. I just think the system could be more refined rank down for loss but a bit less if you do well, more if bad, etc. Same for a win. It wouldn't be perfect but I think it'd be better than what we have now.

And I think we can give blizzard a little more credit, I'm sure they could come up with a somewhat reliable way to figure out who's doing well or not. Just because it'd be a little more work for them doesn't mean it's not worth asking for.

But I'll be playing, and enjoying myself either way, so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
 

RemiLP

Member
Ranks only based on w/l is the only way to go.

This is an objective based team game. The only thing that really mathers is your contribution to the win. How do you measure that? Seems like an impossible thing to put a number on. Sure, kdr, objective time etc is an indication, but could also be WAY off.


In the long run, you will keep winning if your better than the people around your rank, and you will level up. team mates and oponents are all Random and is Equal for Everyone. The only 'constant' is you.
 

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Oh come on...

4 rounds of KOTH gold in every category except for a silver in objective time. It'd be hard to argue I didn't 'belong' in that game with people at those levels. But we also lost pretty bad 1-3. So some people definitely didn't belong. It just sucks that because of the team I was dealt, that now applies to me as far as the game is concerned.

Is what I'm saying really that outrageous? Seems like such a better way to do it. Rank me down if you want, but half a level? And then when we stomp one round, clearly headed for a win, half the opposing team leaves so we get basically nothing. I think it's okay to say that the system needs some work...

In any competitive game you are going to find games where you couldnt have won and games that you had no hand in winning, it is a fact of the system, you cannot create perfect matchmaking and EVEN if you could matchmaking cannot take into account how a person is feeling on a particular day, someone of equal skill to you can play both well above and well below their skill level at any one point because of external factors. Also you have to take into account the season is still very new so there is simply not the data to create the 50% principal consistently, you will find peaks and troughs and anomalies. You seem to be suggesting if one person does so well in "one" game but lose they should be rewarded for doing so well in the face of such opposition, while you may think this is reasonable it goes against a few key principals.

a) Seasons are played over multiple multiple games and, as matchmaking seeks to get you to a 50% winrate, rewarding you for individual games and spiking your reward based on those performances goes against what matchmaking is trying to do, in such a case it would have to compensate by punishing you for very bad performances in games you won, otherwise it creates a sytem that is not "fair" and becomes imbalanced and, as much as some will be sad that they arent compensate for playing well, imagine the shitstorm of people who win and are given next to nothing because they didnt contribute significantly.

b) As I mentioned in my prior post, it is not as simple as "This person played so unbelievable well lets cap his xp so he doesnt lose much" because desigining a system like that has to take into account so many variables beyond "Oh he got 40 kills hes good". There are mutliple roles and rewarding each role equally would be an absolute nightmare, you cannot underestimate how much of an issue it would create because, as ive explained, the distribution of points varies between not only classes but individual heroes. You cannot create a sytem around accuracy, healing, damage, play of the game, deaths, kills because in every circumstance some heroes would be significantly more prone to meeting these targets.

c) Your point about skill, skill is a very difficult to measure thing, especially when it comes to team compositions, an example, in some compositions there are two tanks, two healers and one dps, say this becomes meta, well then you have one dps who is going to be gold on everything (Lets say they are soldier 76) because they literally are responsible for a majority of the teams damage and the team is there to keep him alive, everyone has contributed, but the soldier is going to have the medals. In your suggested system the solderi would be rewarded on a loss and the others would not be, even if one of them played a much better role btu didnt have the stats to back it up.

d) Every competitive matchmaking game that I know of, from Mobas to Strategy games to FPS is designed around the "55% principal" which is that to advance you need ot win 55% of your games, matchmaking is designed that if you do this you will rank up, so basically 6/10 games, this coincides with the system trying to "find" your elo by getting you to a 50/50 winrate which rewards you with good competitive games. Competitive games are not seen through the eye of individual games but as a collective, this reduces gross unfairness because you can win/lose individual games based on factors such as teammates but over the long term your skill will be recognized. This will lead to immense frustration in some games and being totally carried in others, it is the system, you have to get used to it.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Roadhog is pretty good against her. If you can hook her and she doesn't have recall up she's basically dead.
"basically" meaning if she doesn't teleport behind or to the side of you due to buggy Roadhog hook. ;_; I hooked someone today, I think a McCree, and luckily managed to kill them even though I got the random side slide post-hook.

I think it had to do with him being Lucio speed-boosted.
 
In any competitive game you are going to find games where you couldnt have won and games that you had no hand in winning, it is a fact of the system, you cannot create perfect matchmaking and EVEN if you could matchmaking cannot take into account how a person is feeling on a particular day, someone of equal skill to you can play both well above and well below their skill level at any one point because of external factors. Also you have to take into account the season is still very new so there is simply not the data to create the 50% principal consistently, you will find peaks and troughs and anomalies. You seem to be suggesting if one person does so well in "one" game but lose they should be rewarded for doing so well in the face of such opposition, while you may think this is reasonable it goes against a few key principals.

a) Seasons are played over multiple multiple games and, as matchmaking seeks to get you to a 50% winrate, rewarding you for individual games and spiking your reward based on those performances goes against what matchmaking is trying to do, in such a case it would have to compensate by punishing you for very bad performances in games you won, otherwise it creates a sytem that is not "fair" and becomes imbalanced and, as much as some will be sad that they arent compensate for playing well, imagine the shitstorm of people who win and are given next to nothing because they didnt contribute significantly.

b) As I mentioned in my prior post, it is not as simple as "This person played so unbelievable well lets cap his xp so he doesnt lose much" because desigining a system like that has to take into account so many variables beyond "Oh he got 40 kills hes good". There are mutliple roles and rewarding each role equally would be an absolute nightmare, you cannot underestimate how much of an issue it would create because, as ive explained, the distribution of points varies between not only classes but individual heroes. You cannot create a sytem around accuracy, healing, damage, play of the game, deaths, kills because in every circumstance some heroes would be significantly more prone to meeting these targets.

c) Your point about skill, skill is a very difficult to measure thing, especially when it comes to team compositions, an example, in some compositions there are two tanks, two healers and one dps, say this becomes meta, well then you have one dps who is going to be gold on everything (Lets say they are soldier 76) because they literally are responsible for a majority of the teams damage and the team is there to keep him alive, everyone has contributed, but the soldier is going to have the medals. In your suggested system the solderi would be rewarded on a loss and the others would not be, even if one of them played a much better role btu didnt have the stats to back it up.

d) Every competitive matchmaking game that I know of, from Mobas to Strategy games to FPS is designed around the "55% principal" which is that to advance you need ot win 55% of your games, matchmaking is designed that if you do this you will rank up, so basically 6/10 games, this coincides with the system trying to "find" your elo by getting you to a 50/50 winrate which rewards you with good competitive games. Competitive games are not seen through the eye of individual games but as a collective, this reduces gross unfairness because you can win/lose individual games based on factors such as teammates but over the long term your skill will be recognized. This will lead to immense frustration in some games and being totally carried in others, it is the system, you have to get used to it.
Fair enough, I concede.

Save this post. I'm sure it will be useful in the future.
 

Mr Cola

Brothas With Attitude / The Wrong Brotha to Fuck Wit / Die Brotha Die / Brothas in Paris
Fair enough, I concede.

Save this post. I'm sure it will be useful in the future.

Trust me I know the frustration, ive been playing these games my whole life and it goes against every core concept to have the game fuck you, and lets be honest in isolated incidents and even some entire days the game will fuck you. But its a feature not a bug. What I will say is that its going to be worse now than it will be in a few months because the system is being iterated on a weekly basis so the frequency of mismatches will go down. That and the general skill level of players will rise as they get used to things, there will be less stomps because of incorrectly understanding the meta and counters.

On the plus side, and people should not underestimate this, this is the first season of a game and if you can pay attention to and understand the meta you will rise quite highly. In games like League that have been around a long time coming in now you are having to pick up on people who have played for years and know what they are doing, right now if you understand it and play well you can be playing with pro players in a few weeks whereas in league that would take you years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom