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Overwatch |OT6.99999997311%| Game of the Year

Anne

Member
A scoreboard in competitive is a really poor idea. It will only be used to grief other players and adds nothing to the game.

The amount of information you're missing form not having a scoreboard is actually pretty huge. Toxic players are gonna toxic. I'd rather have the information tbh. The fact it isn't even an option for custom lobbies, where pro games happen, is absurd. If I'm a spectator I want them to be able to have that information available to them to help in casting. I want to have it available for them to flash the scoreboard on the screen so I can come to conclusions myself.

I want to be able to watch those games in client and pull up a scoreboard myself :<

I really would prefer to have a scoreboard for the sake of competitive information and to have some other solution to deal with toxicity. It's not like the medals aren't feeding people wrong information and creating toxicity anyways.

Hell the fact I can't view one in a post game screen to even figure out how things played out is ahhhh
 

Anne

Member
Geez that guy want's D.Va to go back to being useless. Her DM is what makes her so good, the health was maybe a little too much, but nerfing DM would just put her back in the awful tier of tanks.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention D.Va. Yeah he definitely really doesn't like D.Va and just wants her gone lol
 
A scoreboard in competitive is a really poor idea. It will only be used to grief other players and adds nothing to the game.

I mean, if you want to analyze your performances and actually get better, it is something that would be super helpful. Like if you look at the scoreboard and see that the Rein is blocking nothing, or the healers aren't doing enough healing you can actually do something to fix it in match as opposed to just going off on them because you think they might be messing up, even if they aren't. In some ways, having a scoreboard would help to alleviate certain kinds of toxicity towards people perceived as not doing their jobs.
 

ISOM

Member
I mean, if you want to analyze your performances and actually get better, it is something that would be super helpful. Like if you look at the scoreboard and see that the Rein is blocking nothing, or the healers aren't doing enough healing you can actually do something to fix it in match as opposed to just going off on them because you think they might be messing up, even if they aren't. In some ways, having a scoreboard would help to alleviate certain kinds of toxicity towards people perceived as not doing their jobs.

It would relieve some toxicity but also increase toxicity as well. I don't really mind it though since I've always kind of wished for a scoreboard as well.
 
TBH medals should be scrapped entirely. They propagate misinformation.
Most people don't even know that eliminations aren't, like, proper kills, but it also counts as an elim if you're, idk, Lucio and your bullet spam grazed someone for 1 damage. You contributed to the kill, so you get an elimination, even though your contribution wasn't quite as important as those of others.
 

Trickster

Member
It would relieve some toxicity but also increase toxicity as well. I don't really mind it though since I've always kind of wished for a scoreboard as well.

It would direct toxicity towards people who are actually performing poorly. Which would be better than people just flaming random players for whatever reason
 

Trickster

Member
Though on the other hand, that also is a recipe for the players who are actually performing poorly to not get better, quite the contrary.
Abuse generally does not work.

I don't think competitive should be a place for people to practice their widowmaker skills though. If they can't perform well with a hero, don't drag it out in competitive, I don't use Genji there because I know I'm not profficient with him, however other people don't seem to let that stop them.

A scoreboard would alleviate the problem of people like that I think
 

ISOM

Member
It would direct toxicity towards people who are actually performing poorly. Which would be better than people just flaming random players for whatever reason

But then bullying bad players would increase immensely. That's what I'm kind of worried about. There's the players who are bad but front like they are actually doing work and exposing those people would be great but then you have the players who are trying and the better players who will pick on/bully those players because they are underperforming. I think it's a delicate issue to think about because even right now you have some people bullied into giving up the game.
 

Cappa

Banned
But then bullying bad players would increase immensely. That's what I'm kind of worried about. There's the players who are bad but front like they are actually doing work and exposing those people would be great but then you have the players who are trying and the better players who will pick on/bully those players because they are underperforming. I think it's a delicate issue to think about because even right now you have some people bullied into giving up the game.

If you´re worried about bullying there are options in game to prevent that, ranging from muting said player, reporting said player, blocking said player, or just turning off team chat.

I dont see why adding something that most competitive games have is such a bad thing. Youre going to have bad players in any multiplayer game regardless of the circumstances. To not implement something because of a fear that it will create more toxicity is just silly. No one is stopping you from blocking and reporting said players, and you can avoid chat altogether.
 

ISOM

Member
If you´re worried about bullying there are options in game to prevent that, ranging from muting said player, reporting said player, blocking said player, or just turning off team chat.

I dont see why adding something that most competitive games have is such a bad thing. Youre going to have bad players in any multiplayer game regardless of the circumstances. To not implement something because of a fear that it will create more toxicity is just silly. No one is stopping you from blocking and reporting said players, and you can avoid chat altogether.

I'm not advocating not having it at all man. I'm just saying it's a delicate issue for others because I've seen the posts talking about people not being able to handle the bullying. I can dish it out and take it and have reported people so it's not a me issue.
 
Ana is a skill based char, so how I see it, if they should nerf her, make it so the skill side is exemplified. Slow down her fire rate and increase the reload, lower the ammo count. Make it so if she has to shoot every shot becomes valuable. Can't just spam shots in one direction. This lowers her healing potential and dps without being crazy with other numbers.
 

Trickster

Member
But then bullying bad players would increase immensely. That's what I'm kind of worried about. There's the players who are bad but front like they are actually doing work and exposing those people would be great but then you have the players who are trying and the better players who will pick on/bully those players because they are underperforming. I think it's a delicate issue to think about because even right now you have some people bullied into giving up the game.

Just to be clear, I don't think it needs to be anywhere but in competitive. And in that mode there really shouldn't be "bad" players due to the ranking system. If someone is consistently one of the bad players on their team in that mode, either the ranking system is broken, or they keep picking heroes they suck with.

And if the problem is that they keep picking heroes they are bad with, I think it's fair that they are called out for it.
 

Jellie

Member
Taking a break seems to have done the trick. 4/1 on placements now. The one loss from symettra on koth and a silver roadhog against diamonds.
 
I'd like a scoreboard as well but in the lower skill ratings it's going to make the game insufferable.

I assume everyone here wanting it is a high skill player and I think at higher levels people are taking it a bit more seriously, however in the lower brackets it's already full of people claiming to be "stuck in ELO hell" not believing they are in a division because of their skill rating but only being dragged down by everyone else.

Is there anyway to tell how many players are even in each bracket?

I had a couple of guys last week that were in Silver berating me about how it's my fault they are stuck in ELO hell, I assume they are still there based on how toxic they were, I've now moved up to platinum where there seems to be less chat but slightly less toxic people.
 

Xater

Member
I'd like a scoreboard as well but in the lower skill ratings it's going to make the game insufferable.

I assume everyone here wanting it is a high skill player and I think at higher levels people are taking it a bit more seriously, however in the lower brackets it's already full of people claiming to be "stuck in ELO hell" not believing they are in a division because of their skill rating but only being dragged down by everyone else.

Is there anyway to tell how many players are even in each bracket?

I had a couple of guys last week that were in Silver berating me about how it's my fault they are stuck in ELO hell, I assume they are still there based on how toxic they were, I've now moved up to platinum where there seems to be less chat but slightly less toxic people.

You are probably right. Yesterday I had some guy complain about my heals in the first minute of the match. I completely ignored him, we won and I was a player of the game because of my heals. He was not on that list for anything. Most of these people complaining are actually quite awful.
 

Greddleok

Member
I don't see a problem with post-game stats. It's basically the same as medals. They give info, but rarely any relevant info. It's not like you can generate a stat for "team player" which is really the only thing that matters in Overwatch.
 
If we're sharing balance suggestions, here's some of my short-sighted ideas:

Ana definitely is in the most need of being addressed. Her healing-rate is really fast, long range and works best on larger characters like tanks. Her grenade also has AOE burst heals to her allies and herself, and even denies heals for others and damages them, making it really versatile. The nano boost is just the cherry on the cake. I'm not sure how you could change her though to stop her from being the sultana of tanks without changing the very essence of the character. As someone that plays Support a lot, the only situation where I won't pick Ana is when someone else has already picked her. It's obviously a problem when one healer excels in virtually all situations, since it trivialises the existence of the others. Perhaps Blizzard needs to figure out what they want "her thing" to be, and just home in on only that. A change I'd propose is to make her biotic grenade come straight out of her own HP. If you use it, 60HP is removed (or however much is still left without her killing herself, and use that to burst-heal/damage the rest. It would take away her self-healing, and add a risk-reward element to her ability, and give her a dope bloodmagic-esque vibe.

On the subject of DVa, I knew her steady stream of buffs were trouble. She was slowly getting out of hand, which aided the rise of Zarya for a while. When they brought Zarya down a peg however, they not only kept the DVa with her buffs, but also slowly continued to buff her further. They clearly wanted her to become relevant, and now that she is, she feels insufferable to play against. Her biggest downside used to be that she had trouble finishing characters off by herself, which was a more than acceptable thing for a tank in a team-based game. Now that she can finish people off by herself, she's in a place where she's not going to go down if she has a healer with her. Every engagement with a DVa turn in slow wars of attrition. If it were up to me, I'd bring her health back down, or make her reload her guns.

Soldier's high damage output is pretty formidable at the moment, but I suppose this is fitting for an attacker role. I'd still marginally bring down his damage output, and completely re-work how his healing works. I'd make make it so his biotic field has a finite amount of health to draw from. If more people want to make use of it, make them share from the same finite pool, like a Half Life health station.

Mercy just straight up needs a new utility feature added to her kit. I'm not sure what, but I really don't like where she's at right now. Right now she is very actively involved in something she doesn't really do especially well. Her kit also encourages her to bail on her team during risky fights, so she can hide and wait for a rez. This self-fulfilling prophecy dynamic seems counter-intuitive to her role and characterisation. Much like Ana and Soldier, I'd once again tweak with the healing mechanics. Since she is most useful when she is attached to a player like a leech, maybe her mechanics should reflect that. Harming a Mercy that is attached to a player, should perhaps sap the HP of the person she's attached to first. It gives her more incentive to stay in fights, but also makes the switch between healing and boosting more valuable.

Finally, Roadhog is a hard character to balance, much like Ana, since his very essence is part of why he can be an issue. He's supposed to be a slow tank with no mobility options, but that can pick off vulnerable characters. He does this great, except when his hook gets really messy. It's essentially the same issue people had with Hanzo months ago. Either the hitboxes are weird, or netcode makes them look deceptive, but there's nothing more unfair feeling than when a hook that misses you still manages to latch on, walls be damned. It looks as broken as it feels. Essentially the hook needs to learn how to let go better. It feels like an obvious suggestion, but I guess it's the only issue I have against the fella.
 
I know this is a pretty silly complain about D.va, but it still bothers me that she has an explosive ult that doesnt damage herself, always thought that buff made no sense compared to other explosive ults (junkrat/pharah/tracer). But it's not really something that makes her OP I guess so not really high priority.
 

Prelude.

Member
You don't always have to kill 2 supports though. People have this misconception about him that hes weak because he dies first, but you just created tons of space for your team, split their team in half and possibly got a kill. You won the fight.
But that's not how it works in reality, if you use your leap to engage you're pretty much already dead because it's not gonna be off cd when you need to leave since no one is supporting you, so you're forced to play super conservatively at the risk of not confirming the frag. Trading is almost never a good thing.
 

Pooya

Member
I know this is a pretty silly complain about D.va, but it still bothers me that she has an explosive ult that doesnt damage herself, always thought that buff made no sense compared to other explosive ults (junkrat/pharah/tracer). But it's not really something that makes her OP I guess so not really high priority.

I don't know about that, one of the basic strats is to self destruct in Overtime on payload/point whatever and stand there yourself.
 

Mantrox

Member
I would like for them to try these on PTR:

- D'va: Take 50 health off and reduce the walking while shooting speed a bit to 25%.

- Ana: Reduce the debuff timer for her grenade by 1,5 seconds, and the damage and healing it does by 10.

- Roadhog: increase the cooldown on hook by 2 seconds if your hook connected and it stays the same if it whiffs.

- Soldier: Reduce the damage he does while ulting by 10%.
 

antitrop

Member
TBH medals should be scrapped entirely. They propagate misinformation.
Most people don't even know that eliminations aren't, like, proper kills, but it also counts as an elim if you're, idk, Lucio and your bullet spam grazed someone for 1 damage. You contributed to the kill, so you get an elimination, even though your contribution wasn't quite as important as those of others.
Ya, I had 2 Silver elim Lucio victories yesterday. It's not that our DPS were bad, it's that they were doing so good I never died and was able to get shots and boops in on almost everyone.
 

AbaFadi

Banned
While I'm here please put me on team "dear god I want a scoreboard please give it to me."

Yeah we need a scoreboard. I had silver damage as Reinhardt the other day after round 1 and had to wonder what the DPS and Roadhog on my team were doing.
 
If we're sharing balance suggestions, here's some of my short-sighted ideas:

Mercy just straight up needs a new utility feature added to her kit. I'm not sure what, but I really don't like where she's at right now. Right now she is very actively involved in something she doesn't really do especially well. Her kit also encourages her to bail on her team during risky fights, so she can hide and wait for a rez. This self-fulfilling prophecy dynamic seems counter-intuitive to her role and characterisation. Much like Ana and Soldier, I'd once again tweak with the healing mechanics. Since she is most useful when she is attached to a player like a leech, maybe her mechanics should reflect that. Harming a Mercy that is attached to a player, should perhaps sap the HP of the person she's attached to first. It gives her more incentive to stay in fights, but also makes the switch between healing and boosting more valuable.

She needs to be able to survive for longer in the heat of the battle but it needs to be situational and deliberate by the player. I would say give her 100hp Shield when tethered and give her the same invulnerability on casting resurrect that the team gets.
 

Cappa

Banned
Given how many stats they track in-game it would be a pretty cramped scoreboard.

Overwatch did have a scoreboard way back then...... it wasnt cramped.

Also, people have created some of their own... this one isnt bad and its certainly a start id probably remove a few things from it myself but I would love to see something like this... considering Overwatch DID have a scoreboard in the past.

8rjjXCv.png
 

Anne

Member
Given how many stats they track in-game it would be a pretty cramped scoreboard.

The game doesn't need to track every stat on an in game board, just pertinent ones like KDA and maybe damage/healing? Save the rest for post game stat dumps like other games do.

Also I went around outside of GAF and looked at what people are saying. A lot of people around gold/plat think Soldier is ridiculous it looks like. I don't want to be snooty, but I feel like those players are just finally up against something that can easily put down kill pressure when McCrees and such at that level couldn't. He's probably slightly too good, and it's marginally too good at that. Really the only thing that stands out is that 1v1ing him when he has CDs up is too hit and miss.

I'm finding it kind of funny how around that level I see tons of complaints about Soldier but the higher up I go all of those complaints are replaced by D.Va. At least people consistently call out Ana across all levels.
 

Greddleok

Member
For me the main issue with Mercy is that she's a dead weight if the opposing team knows to kill her first.
She just heals. She can't DPS, she can't speed boost, she can't debuff. If the target she's healing isn't being attacked, and the opponent is focusing her (like they should), then she's useless.

Poor escape
Poor survivability
Poor utility
 
The problem is what stats matters varies so much from character to character. Like I don't care how many kills my Lucio or Mercy are getting or how accurate they are, and it doesn't matter how much healing Mei or Roadhog are doing. It'd be difficult to make it work for every character.
 

Symphonic

Member
Overwatch did have a scoreboard way back then...... it wasnt cramped.

Also, people have created some of their own... this one isnt bad and its certainly a start id probably remove a few things from it myself but I would love to see something like this... considering Overwatch DID have a scoreboard in the past.

snip

I'll be pretty disappointed if they show ever kills. Medals are one of the more refreshing features of the game, especially since the teams are so small.

More states wouldn't be bad though.
 

Anne

Member
The problem is what stats matters varies so much from character to character. Like I don't care how many kills my Lucio or Mercy are getting or how accurate they are, and it doesn't matter how much healing Mei or Roadhog are doing. It'd be difficult to make it work for every character.

Ish. K/D/A is pretty universal. So is damage and healing. Utility characters like Mei will still end up on the short stick of those basic stats, but that's just kind of the nature of the character. Past those 5 stats I just listed it gets too specific I'd agree, but those 5 are enough to help inform me what is going on midmatch. If I see a Zenyatta with a low assist ratio for example I can probably figure out that Zen isn't getting set up for good orbs. If I see a Mercy with a high amount of deaths I can assume she's getting caught out too much. For some characters, like Mei or Rein, those might be low, but I can generally figure out how they are doing just by looking. Others there is stuff there worth knowing.

Idk, it just makes no sense how a game is supposed to have this super competitive thing going on that feeds into esports tournaments when it isn't willing to throw up stats on my screen. Like, I get the logic behind the toxicity stuff, but Blizz can't have it both ways.

It's also not like medals are working either. They alleviate some things but create entirely new problems.

(Also we can already see when kills happen anyways because there is a killfeed)
 

Symphonic

Member
Ish. K/D/A is pretty universal. So is damage and healing. Utility characters like Mei will still end up on the short stick of those basic stats, but that's just kind of the nature of the character. Past those 5 stats I just listed it gets too specific I'd agree, but those 5 are enough to help inform me what is going on midmatch. If I see a Zenyatta with a low assist ratio for example I can probably figure out that Zen isn't getting set up for good orbs. If I see a Mercy with a high amount of deaths I can assume she's getting caught out too much. For some characters, like Mei or Rein, those might be low, but I can generally figure out how they are doing just by looking. Others there is stuff there worth knowing.

Idk, it just makes no sense how a game is supposed to have this super competitive thing going on that feeds into esports tournaments when it isn't willing to throw up stats on my screen. Like, I get the logic behind the toxicity stuff, but Blizz can't have it both ways.

It's also not like medals are working either. They alleviate some things but create entirely new problems.

(Also we can already see when kills happen anyways because there is a killfeed)

Showing stats for competitive either in game with a caster or during a post game breakdown makes sense. You can have it both ways.
 

Anne

Member
Showing stats for competitive either in game with a caster or during a post game breakdown makes sense. You can have it both ways.

Ish. You can have it both ways like that, but you're hamstringing people that are trying to make things happen in your comp ladder. It's just withholding a feature several other games have that many competitive players find useful. They do this at the same time as promoting and working intimately with the competitive field. That seems like having it both ways and not really succeeding.

I get the ideas behind what they are doing anyways. Don't promote stat boosting, promote making plays. Don't promote blame, promote personal performance. In the end people are still stat boosting and inaccurately throwing around blame. I'm willing to say the medal experiment has mostly failed, and while I don't expect it to be easy to replace it out of nowhere I think it's worth looking at a different scoreboard.

Also using the scoreboard to downplay toxicity seems kinda eh when there are features that deal with that I miss. I like in other games where I get a notification saying somebody I reported was punished. I like in other games where good behavior is rewarded. I like when punishments that lock toxic players out of certain match pools happen. Right now in Blizzard games I don't quite know what my reports actually do.

Also to be honest I really like the way the game doesn't differentiate between kills and assists.

I kind of like it too, but it's hard to get good info off it sometimes. If they wanted to do stats as Elims/Deaths/Assists where elims are damage contributed and Assists are things like healing/boosts would that make people feel better? I d k. I'll admit final blow #s don't matter to me all that much compared to Kill Participation %, but it still is muddying info up for the sake of feels.
 

Xater

Member
I honestly don't need those stats. Keep them accessible on a website somewhere but out of the game. Keep the stat whores at bay even in competitive.
 
I think it would be nice, if you could see a small scoreboard showing the stats of both teams, i.e. healing done, damage done, damage blocked / absorbed, deaths and kills. All without mentioning player names. In this case could not blame any other specifically, but you can probably see why you have lost / won.
 

Greddleok

Member
Also to be honest I really like the way the game doesn't differentiate between kills and assists.

I also like that. Assists are important in Overwatch to the point that you might as well get credit for the kill. Come characters are specifically designed to get kills and finishing off low HP enemies (like Tracer) while others do a lot of work but can't always guarantee kills.
 

Cappa

Banned
I honestly don't need those stats. Keep them accessible on a website somewhere but out of the game. Keep the stat whores at bay even in competitive.

I think what were getting at is that Blizzard is trying to push Overwatch into this hardcore competitive huge tournament game but is still lagging behind other games in terms of providing relevant statistics for a "competitive game."

All these ideas can be removed from Quickplay and every other mode, adding them to Competitive mode only makes sense, in my opinion, stat whores can still use websites like Overbuff, Master overwatch etc etc to brag about their stats.
 

Anne

Member
Also why can't I hit a post game button that says "hey this person was awesome"? In LoL, you can do that for people you didn't queue with. Even has a reason why you can hit. I would say you can reward people who keep getting those without reports over long periods of time, but Idk how abusable that is. Idk how people would act if they could get a free box every once in awhile for being nice though.

Right now all I get is a "rate match" thing I usually forget exists and have no idea what it really does. I guess I also have "prefer player" but that's pretty vague and I don't always want to keep somebody around like that.
 
I don't see what a scoreboard adds. Toxic people are gonna toxic, true, but bad players are gonna bad. Someone who's bad isn't suddenly going to have a come to Jesus moment, they're just going to continue to blame their team/healers/tanks or whatever.
 
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