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[Anne]

I don't even like the old version of D.Va tbh, but the new one has this problem. Like if you just look at her stats (health/DPS), she's just flat too good to lose most standing 1v1s. If you count mobility as a "stat" then there's that too. She's a flying statball without interesting mechanics to mess with or play around, and that's why she's picked. You can just throw DPS/health in something's face to solve the problem.

If you revert her she still doesn't have interesting mechanics outside of DM. Admittedly DM is very good, but it's not why she's picked really. I'd rather Blizzard look at her empty E slot and make her a bit less of a statball and more of an interesting hero to play with/against. As she is designed right now she just isn't going to be very good without overbearing stats.

This isn't a "D.Va is good now so we should nerf her" type deal. It's just not a very good design that has been highlighted by her stat adjusting. Instead of straight nerfing her stats, I'd rather they nerf her now and look at giving her a kit update again later.

 

[Veelk]

Zarya has been hella nerfed though, so even with a Dva health/shield nerf she still shouldn't be dominated ine 1v1 like before.

When? The two main nerfs I know about are that she gets 40% from her shields instead of 50% (which I think is still too high. That beam in CRAZY strong, and Zarya players should have to work for it. I'd like to see her try with 30%, maybe even 25%) and a lowering of her damage, but since they also altered her beam to give continuous damage, it mitigated a lot of that. Zarya is still a monster when played right, I think. I'd be willing to try and see a nerfed D.Va go up against her, but I wouldn't be surprised if she just went right back to melting the poor little korean.

 

[Anne]

Tbf I don't think Zarya being good had much to do with D.Va being underplayed. I think at 500 health and that slower movement(which means lower DPS) D.Va was just kinda ass. In order to get her played they just threw on a pretty ludicrous stat adjustment, and the end result is a pretty obnoxious character that just brings a shitload of stats to the table.

MOBA items, particularly LoL, have had this design problem too. The unique effects are whatever and people just buy them and create a character that just has outright better stats for gold. In Overwatch there are no items, and there's this character sitting there that just outright has much better stats than the rest of the cast without much else going on.

It's okay if they just want have a simple, stat heavy character in the game, but D.Va is definitely not the way to go about it. She has too many stats and a jetpack.

 

[Data West]

Zarya is definitely not someone I would call 'hella nerfed'

McCree pre-buffs was hella nerfed
Hanzo post-hitbox nerf(the first time through) was hella nerfed
I can barely tell the difference with Zarya since the nerfs honestly especially with the hit registration change

 

[Shake Appeal]

She's a flying statball without interesting mechanics to mess with or play around, and that's why she's picked. You can just throw DPS/health in something's face to solve the problem.

Yeah, I think this is why I just don't care about D.Va even in her current iteration. I find her one of the least interesting heroes to play (or play against). There's just very little that's fun about her. Even after the shooting speed increase, she always feel cumbersome and dull.

With Genji, Zarya, Ana, Sombra, I'm always juggling cooldowns and doing exciting, interesting things. Even a hero like Reaper, who's dirt-simple to pick up and play reasonably well, feels better to use than D.Va.

 

[caesar]

Zarya is definitely not someone I would call 'hella nerfed'

McCree pre-buffs was hella nerfed
Hanzo post-hitbox nerf(the first time through) was hella nerfed
I can barely tell the difference with Zarya since the nerfs honestly especially with the hit registration change

Really? You could have 100 energy all the time with no effort and spam m2 for huge damage.

 

[LiK]

All this Dva hate. Was good before. Better now.

 

[Rynam]

Finally bought the Game in the current sale, are there some Heroes that are good for beginners?

 

[xaosslug]

Did this get posted yet?

Kaplan responded to the Tracer controversy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIIDvvOP4HA

"wow, who knows what character will be gay the next time I log in"

if this is actually something that bothers peeps... they have bigger issues to worry about in their life than OW's hidden MMR.

 

[Veelk]

Yeah, I think this is why I just don't care about D.Va even in her current iteration. I find her one of the least interesting heroes to play (or play against). There's just very little that's fun about her. Even after the shooting speed increase, she always feel cumbersome and dull.

With Genji, Zarya, Ana, Sombra, I'm always juggling cooldowns and doing exciting, interesting things. Even a hero like Reaper, who's dirt-simple to pick up and play reasonably well, feels better to use than D.Va.

This is inevitably going to be a subjective thing, but I will not stand for this D.Va slander. I certainly always found her more fun to play than the walking CoD-clone that is Soldier.

D.Va has been my favorite character to play as even from the beginning, specifically because she was fun. Like, other characters were fun too, but she is the only character that can fly like she does, giving me a lot of manueverability. Her DM can be satisfying if you use it to eat something significant. And I find her ult the most satisfying to pull off. My favorite was when I launched my mech through a Hanzo's ult, so it was actually hidden from view until the last second, which resulted in a quintuple kill. Only reason I didn't do a full team wipe was because the Zenyatta ulted.

Her only real unfun piece was her guns. It feels kind of silly to be in this huge mech and unable to move just because your firing your guns. And even that's better now.

 

[Jellie]

Finally bought the Game in the current sale, are there some Heroes that are good for beginners?

Soldier 76 would probably be the easiest to pick up. His abilities are a rocket and a biotic field that heals him so he's pretty self sufficient. Plus with his recent buff he's very OP.

 

[Skii]

I also echo the sentiment that Dva is quite a poorly designed character. She seems to have a pretty low skill ceiling. Like I've never played Dva before and one time I went fuck it in competitive and now she's one of my mains because of how easy and effective it is to play her. As long as you DM ults and hooks and just press left click on people near you, you're already beating most heroes in this game in terms of efficiency.

I always knew these buffs were way too much in PTR. I played against her as Reaper and immediately knew she was ridiculous. It just baffles me that no one at Blizzard even looked into what was happening in the PTR and if they did, it clearly wasn't very thorough.

When can we actually expect some balancing? It'coming up to 3 weeks now with the current competitive season and there's no indication that Blizzard are even acknowledging what Ana + tanks is doing to the meta. They don't seem at all concerned that Roadhog can get a free kill in an environment where ults can't reliably decide fights anymore. This is an amazing amount of neglect tbh.

 

[PalaceBrother]

"wow, who knows what character will be gay the next time I log in"

if this is actually something that bothers peeps... they have bigger issues to worry about in their life than OW's hidden MMR.

That line killed me.

Actually, I just realized something which can only be good news. In my 120+ hours of playing Overwatch I haven't heard a single homophobic or racist slur. Granted I'm on PS4 so I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but back in the COD BLOPS days on 360 I was literally set to "auto-mute" because it was such a caustic community.

 

[Nimby]

In my 120+ hours of playing Overwatch I haven't heard a single homophobic or racist slur.

You got really fucking lucky then.

 

[PAULINK]

just bought my second golden weapon, mercy's! I dunno why some people don't like mercy in comp

I want to go for rein next so badly. What golden guns do you guys have family?

 

[Pachimari]

Overwatch is down? I can't connect to the European servers.

 

[Paltheos]

When? The two main nerfs I know about are that she gets 40% from her shields instead of 50% (which I think is still too high. That beam in CRAZY strong, and Zarya players should have to work for it. I'd like to see her try with 30%, maybe even 25%) and a lowering of her damage, but since they also altered her beam to give continuous damage, it mitigated a lot of that. Zarya is still a monster when played right, I think. I'd be willing to try and see a nerfed D.Va go up against her, but I wouldn't be surprised if she just went right back to melting the poor little korean.

25%? lol

At the rate the energy decays she'd be almost impossible to keep a charge on, if at all possible after a successful push/stop. Maybe that's the idea here but I think the player should be rewarded on that end when winning a fight.

As a Zarya player, that 10% knockdown was a *big* deal and a step in the right direction I think as I could be pretty careless with my barriers and still have allot of energy. Now I have to decide, prioritize, etc. Since the energy decays constantly, every cut, earnable % point is worth more than the last. Cutting an additional 15 on top of the prior 10? I don't know, man. Do you have a problem with the character? I don't.

Most problems I've had against enemy Zaryas come from just strong players or idiot teammates attacking a barrier when they're not set to get a kill.

 

[Anne]

The problem isn't just that D.va is unfun. The problem is that she is picked for literally none of her mechanics. None of that is needed to play the hero effectively at high level. You just pick her, plop her in front of something you want to go away, and let the stats do the talking.

I wouldn't call that subjective. I'd call that a failed character design that is only relevant due to an inflated statline.

Other characters have this problem(Soldier is definitely one of them), but to a lesser degree. There are choices in picking Soldier outside of his stats, especially when looking at alternatives. That being said he wouldn't be relevant without the big dumb damage dump he has. D.Va doesn't really have that. It's just shift at thing > outstats things. DM is the only exception and it's not exceptional enough to get her into the game by itself.

When can we actually expect some balancing? It'coming up to 3 weeks now with the current competitive season and there's no indication that Blizzard are even acknowledging what Ana + tanks is doing to the meta. They don't seem at all concerned that Roadhog can get a free kill in an environment where ults can't reliably decide fights anymore. This is an amazing amount of neglect tbh.

They did at least acknowledge they are looking into adjusting Ana in their latest dev update. I'm sure they are fully aware of the problem, but were waiting on the tournaments to conclude for timing/data reasons.

 

[Laputa_94]

just bought my second golden weapon, mercy's! I dunno why some people don't like mercy in comp

I want to go for rein next so badly. What golden guns do you guys have family?

I got Tracers and Reinhardts. Those are the two characters I have primarily played since the beta.

No idea who I will give the next one too when I get the points.

 

[Pachimari]

Turned out I just needed to update the game first.

I might just spend money on loot boxes for the first time.

 

[Veelk]

The problem isn't just that D.va is unfun. The problem is that she is picked for literally none of her mechanics. None of that is needed to play the hero effectively at high level. You just pick her, plop her in front of something you want to go away, and let the stats do the talking.

I wouldn't call that subjective. I'd call that a failed character design that is only relevant due to an inflated statline.

I don't know what to tell you. That's perfectly fine by me. I don't need or want to play at a high level. Whenever you talk about it, it only ever sounds unappealing to me.

That she is a flying, shotgun wielding, attack eating, nuke thrower is enough for me.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

I've been away for the holidays and not keeping up with news as well as I'd like.

I just saw the year in review developer diary, is anything known or rumored for those balance changes, game modes, characters, etc.?

Get me caught up!

 

[hypernima]

Anyone up for PS4 Comp? If so, let me know.

 

[Human Trashcan]

I like playing as D.va! Highly mobile + tanky is pretty much my ideal combination, and D.va is both those things. Pound for pound, Mei is my favorite hero to play, but D.va is a close second.

 

[Forkball]

Holy shit I got a legendary is it Santa Mei is it Elf Tracer WHO IS IT WHO IS I-oh. Reaper. Not even a holiday costume.

 

[Anne]

I don't know what to tell you. That's perfectly fine by me. I don't need or want to play at a high level. Whenever you talk about it, it only ever sounds unappealing to me.

That she is a flying, shotgun wielding, attack eating, nuke thrower is enough for me.

I mean, she could still be all that and be greatly improved. If you don't care about higher level balance that's fine, but you shouldn't come into a discussion about it just to say, "well I don't care, I like it this way."

You can like it that way. She can be changed and still work that way. She can work that way and be kind of an issue these days too.

 

[rulerk1]

We don't hear a peep from this dude but he comes on at the end to tell us we suck becuase we didn't get on my point LUL ( I was trying to keep the other three alive but I should have got on point tbh. This was qp mind you
Scaredy cat McCrees and soldiers are the worst!

 

[antitrop]

I got Tracers and Reinhardts. Those are the two characters I have primarily played since the beta.

No idea who I will give the next one too when I get the points.

I have Roadhog, Junkrat, and Mercy. Next will be golden nuts for Zen, I think.

 

[AngryMoth]

just bought my second golden weapon, mercy's! I dunno why some people don't like mercy in comp

I want to go for rein next so badly. What golden guns do you guys have family?

I've got Tracer and Ana. Thinking of going for Mei next but I don't really play her enough. Zen is the one I play next most but don't think his golden balls look that good...

 

[Veelk]

I mean, she could still be all that and be greatly improved. If you don't care about higher level balance that's fine, but you shouldn't come into a discussion about it just to say, "well I don't care, I like it this way."

You can like it that way. She can be changed and still work that way. She can work that way and be kind of an issue these days too.

Well, the contention here was that she was unfun which IS subjective, and failure of design because her mechanics are allegedly not interesting enough, which I also think is subjective. What's less subjective is if they are viable at high levels of play, since you can find characters that do, individually, stuff that D.Va does better aside from her DM, which I agree is limited in it's capability.

For my part, I don't need D.Va to be viable at high levels of play so long as she's just plain viable overall. Hanzo is a good example. You're never going to find him in pro tournaments, but he's more than good to use in just about every other tier of play. As long as a character is in that position, I'm fine with what they do.

That said, if you want to buff my favorite character to be even more useful, I don't object. I'm just saying that trying to balance the game around the most optimized and restricted level of play probably isn't the best way to think of balancing the game.

 

[Anne]

You find Hanzo in pro tournaments though. At anything lower than high level play basically every character is viable, mostly because player skill will outweigh certain factors.

I'm willing to bet just about anything will be good enough for you in the spectrum of balance and meta nonsense outside of extreme circumstances :T

P.S. It's been proven many times that balancing around the highest level of human play is the most functional way to get the game to be balanced across all levels. Don't throw that bad idea at me :v

 

[Grisby]

Holy shit I got a legendary is it Santa Mei is it Elf Tracer WHO IS IT WHO IS I-oh. Reaper. Not even a holiday costume.

I'd like to get Santa Mei for the transform. Not spending 3000 of MY HARD EARNED VIRTUAL LOOT BOX CURRENCY to get it though.

Probably end up buying her emote however.

edit- Also, I wish I had Puff Daddy money. The I could make it rain loot boxes for days. I could do charity loot box giveaways.

 

[Skyzard]

First time I tried this

https://gfycat.com/FlickeringAdorableAnkolewatusi

Works! Just heard em all coming and did it, had to walk around and look to make sure I did it right.

Ana got the potg for it :S

 

[Veelk]

You find Hanzo in pro tournaments though. At anything lower than high level play basically every character is viable, mostly because player skill will outweigh certain factors.

I'm willing to bet just about anything will be good enough for you in the spectrum of balance and meta nonsense outside of extreme circumstances :T

I do have quibbles. Small changes I'd like to see to Soldier, Widow, Zarya, Mei's icicle ability, etc.

But yeah, they are quibbles. Nothings outright broken, no play is outright unstoppable. I mean, let's be real, this game is very well balanced. It's not perfect, but for 23 asymmetrical characters with mostly asymmetrical maps, it's kind of incredible.

So yeah, saying stuff like Dva being a failure of design is pretty exaggerated to me if the only justification for that is that people on the highest level of play wouldn't bother with her. That's an incredibly narrow portion of the base. An important one, but not one that is the only ruling voice.

 

[Mendrox]

People complaining about D.va now that she is playable for everyone suddenly lol

 

[Jellie]

First time I tried this

https://gfycat.com/FlickeringAdorableAnkolewatusi

Works! Just heard em all coming and did it, had to walk around and look to make sure I did it right.

Ana got the potg for it :S

If you lob your right click grenade at them and its hits them all they'll register as your kill and you'll get all your ult charge back pretty much.

 

[Skyzard]

If you lob your right click grenade at them and its hits them all they'll register as your kill and you'll get all your ult charge back pretty much.

Oh nice, ty.

 

[Anne]

I mean, you can choose to look at it as a "ruling voice" as you put it. I'll continue to look at it as a conclusion most players that continue to progress will encounter.

Idk, I've gone over this a lot. You should probably just let the people that want to talk about balance from observing or attempting to play at a higher level talk about it, and not get up into that conversation if you're just gonna end up saying, "I don't like what I'm hearing." Some stuff is neat, like how they balance for higher level play while changing perception and tools available to lower skill players. You could ask about how they've done that and what it looks like? I'm not interested in trying to carry on anything past this if it's just going to end in "I don't care about high level opinion".

 

[Dongs Macabre]

So my friend just noticed this and told me about this:

In the scene where Pharah's eating in a Canadian restaurant, she's wearing a ring on her pinkie.

The Iron Ring is something that Canadian engineers wear. It seems like Pharah might have studied as an engineer in Canada.

That's some crazy attention to detail if it isn't a coincidence.

 

[Incitemaybe]

Battle.net down for everyone?

 

[jasminlovesyoux]

I don't even like the old version of D.Va tbh, but the new one has this problem. Like if you just look at her stats (health/DPS), she's just flat too good to lose most standing 1v1s. If you count mobility as a "stat" then there's that too. She's a flying statball without interesting mechanics to mess with or play around, and that's why she's picked. You can just throw DPS/health in something's face to solve the problem.

If you revert her she still doesn't have interesting mechanics outside of DM. Admittedly DM is very good, but it's not why she's picked really. I'd rather Blizzard look at her empty E slot and make her a bit less of a statball and more of an interesting hero to play with/against. As she is designed right now she just isn't going to be very good without overbearing stats.

This isn't a "D.Va is good now so we should nerf her" type deal. It's just not a very good design that has been highlighted by her stat adjusting. Instead of straight nerfing her stats, I'd rather they nerf her now and look at giving her a kit update again later.

I don't agree with this analysis at all. Dvas only other similar character is Winston and yet they still fill different roles. Their mechanics are a ton of fun for diving and without them I'd be sad. Dva especially. Her flight and bump is a fantastic game play mechanic.

 

[Blues1990]

I had a ranked KOTH match last night where our Reinhardt had went AWOL on us (he was purposely trying to throw the game and he refused to switch/leave)., After getting unceremoniously butt fucked by the enemy team in the first round, I switched from Lucio to Mei (someone had switched to Zenyatta to fill my old spot) as I basically had to be the tanky tank that was missing in our group. With help from Ana and Zenyatta, I was basically THIS to the enemy team. An huge, adorable roadblock:

Thankfully, we were able to get the match to close on a draw. On the one hand, it felt satisfying to say fuck you to that teammate and were able to hold it together. However, it also felt like an exercise in frustration, and it didn't help that jackass I had mentioned was rooting for the enemy team to win. :/

 

[ISOM]

So my friend just noticed this and told me about this:

In the scene where Pharah's eating in a Canadian restaurant, she's wearing a ring on her pinkie.

The Iron Ring is something that Canadian engineers wear. It seems like Pharah might have studied as an engineer in Canada.

That's some crazy attention to detail if it isn't a coincidence.

How does he know it's an "Iron Ring". I really can't tell the shape of the design based on the picture.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

How does he know it's an "Iron Ring". I really can't tell the shape of the design based on the picture.

Well, it's really just an assumption, but given that she's in Canada (and possibly has history there since she's eating with someone she knows) and that the ring is worn on the pinkie finger as well, I don't think it's out of the question. It would definitely be some cool backstory if it isn't a coincidence.

 

[Anne]

I don't agree with this analysis at all. Dvas only other similar character is Winston and yet they still fill different roles. Their mechanics are a ton of fun for diving and without them I'd be sad. Dva especially. Her flight and bump is a fantastic game play mechanic.

Let me rephrase this. At some point players stopped picking D.Va for her unique flight and DM. Flight became just the the ability to move vertically, and DM is more or less just a delay. That's all well and good, but people are picking her almost purely for the stat pool rather than for her uniqueness. Rather than use interesting uses of her mechanics, it's typically optimal to boost into one spot then just alternate M1/M2 because her health/DPS allow her to win almost any encounter in some way.

I, and many other players, dont find that very engaging to play as or against. I'd personally rather they put emphasis on her unique tools rather than just dumping stats into her until she's strong.

 

[Ambient80]

Are there any good guides/strategy videos that are a little more up to date? The ones linked in the OP are from launch and aren't nearly as helpful considering the new buffs and such for characters. I'm specifically looking for support characters.

 

[rulerk1]

I had a ranked KOTH match last night where our Reinhardt had went AWOL on us (he was purposely trying to throw the game and he refused to switch/leave)., After getting unceremoniously butt fucked by the enemy team in the first round, I switched from Lucio to Mei (someone had switched to Zenyatta to fill my old spot) as I basically had to be the tanky tank that was missing in our group. With help from Ana and Zenyatta, I was basically THIS to the enemy team. An huge, adorable roadblock:

Thankfully, we were able to get the match to close on a draw. On the one hand, it felt satisfying to say fuck you to that teammate and were able to hold it together. However, it also felt like an exercise in frustration, and it didn't help that jackass I had mentioned was rooting for the enemy team to win. :/

What a strange person. Why was he throwing? This game needs a reputation system but I'm worried that might get abused

 

[Risible]

Just opened this chest, needless to say I was stoked

 

[AngryMoth]

I wish I could rank up back to where I was last season simply so I can play with people that actually understand this game. Enemy was holding the main choke on Nepal Village with their whole team behind a Reinhardt. I am spamming group up trying to get us to flank from the high ground but instead they insist on going through main like lambs to a slaughter

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Let me rephrase this. At some point players stopped picking D.Va for her unique flight and DM. Flight became just the the ability to move vertically, and DM is more or less just a delay. That's all well and good, but people are picking her almost purely for the stat pool rather than for her uniqueness. Rather than use interesting uses of her mechanics, it's typically optimal to boost into one spot then just alternate M1/M2 because her health/DPS allow her to win almost any encounter in some way.

I, and many other players, dont find that very engaging to play as or against. I'd personally rather they put emphasis on her unique tools rather than just dumping stats into her until she's strong.

Isn't that current soldier tho? he has the most boring kit out of all the dps players and he wasn't really used all that much until the recent buff.