Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Still think soldier would be mostly fine once mccree can get squishies that he can 2-shot again.
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Overwatch |OT6.99999997311%| Game of the Year
- Thread starter ExMachina
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Psychoward
Banned
yeah, that explains why on overbuff or oversumo or any of those sites or apps I go to my mains and it lists me as being plat even before I grouped up yet I lost 5 straight games
I literally had a week where I was a master lucio in comp with the gaf 6-stack and before the 6-stack I plummeted to 2072 being the only support.
it's pretty fucking hard to carry 5 other players in overwatch
ELO hell is real and Blizzard's ranking system sucks
KINGofCRA5H
Member
Wait. Please tell me D.Va is not garbage again
Garrett Hawke
Member
I think the truth is that it lies somewhere in the middle. Climbing is skill with luck.
Psychoward
Banned
so bronze to master is the same as gold to diamond now?
Losing 5 straight games != ELO hell. I lost 5 straight games in diamond, am I also in ELO hell? ¯\_(ツ
_/¯That's bad luck, not elo hell. You can get stomped at any elo.
No not really.
I play 90% solo queue and climb just fine, maybe you are where you belong?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
In some ways elo hell kind of not a thing.
But then you get days where you keep getting grouped with a trolling mercy+ana duo who refuse to heal anyone except one guy and asking them to carry.
You can also argue that I should have just postponed my session then.
Hard lessons were learnt.
But then you get days where you keep getting grouped with a trolling mercy+ana duo who refuse to heal anyone except one guy and asking them to carry.
You can also argue that I should have just postponed my session then.
Hard lessons were learnt.
Try to play 90% games as Lucio (because nobody else wants to play some dumbass healer) and climb without being lucky.
I kind of agree, but, the fact of the matter is, everyone has to deal with the same players. The game isn't out to get 1 person. If you get screwed, others are getting screwed, too. It balances out.
Psychoward
Banned
Losing 5 straight games != ELO hell. I lost 5 straight games in diamond, am I also in ELO hell? ¯\_(ツ
I dunno, I didn't feel like continuing to get worse and worse teams because I placed at a lower rank than I ever was last season.
Losing 5 games at diamond isn't the same as losing 5 games in low gold. High platinum players still have a basic understanding of the meta usually and use mics, that wasn't my experience in low gold and I doubt it was gonna be any better in silver.
I know I'm a higher skill level than that and every site or app I've used backs that up so I wasn't gonna wait around and get worse and worse teams despite playing at a high skill level.
Why do you have to be Lucio? Also I'm pretty sure I could climb with Lucio, hes like one of the best heros lol.
Or maybe you've just been luckier with matchmaking?
Like I can see how someone who's as good as Master could carry a gold team to win, but if you're as good as Platinum there's no way you can do that. You're at the mercy of 5 random people you're matched up with.
People have given plenty of evidence to back up the ELO hell. It obviously exists. When you constantly get teams who refuse to switch blatantly obviously poor heroes, don't communicate, you're forced to pick a healer constantly because nobody else will so you can't really carry anyway, and so on, then the problem is bad luck more than you not being good enough to carry them.
Psychoward
Banned
Or maybe you just got lucky teams considering any time I go on oversumo or overbuff I have at least platinum rankings with the people I use in comp and I can easily hold my own whenever I join the gaf stack despite the average match rating being around 2900. Maybe I just get medals and we win the game by accident?
No, that's going under the false assumption that both teams in a match have equivalent teamwork.
put 2 teams with similar skill next to each other, one team has mics and communicates and has a nice comp, the other stays in group chat and goes 5 dps even though each individual is similarly skilled. Guess who comes out on top?
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
When you have 4 gold medals as a tank and the next round is up and a teammate takes the tank you were playing:
Second time that's happened this week.
I HATE that shit. If someone is doing good with their hero, don't steal it next round until they don't pick them.
you lost 1500 points?
Psychoward
Banned
supports get proven to have less SR gain over dps or tanks
Who else you gonna play with 4 DPSs for example? Ana? Good luck getting your ultimate.
Lucio is great, but you can't carry with him with shitty teammates. Even if you heal 30% of damage, if your DPSs are garbage, who cares.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I don't think they do, I think people just expect that healing alone should be part of your SR calculation.
I've had lucio games where I gain 30SR+, and not from a streak either. They seem to count elims and offensive assists a lot.
Psychoward
Banned
No. Last season I stayed around high gold and low plat.
This placement season despite having a winning record and doing well in the majority of my games I placed at 2212 which was over 100 points less than my absolute lowest low of season 2.
Whatever, I figured I'd climb, right? I played 5 straight games with shitty comps and not a single person in voice and was one more loss away from silver. According to overbuff and oversumo though my soldier, zarya and lucio were either platinum, diamond or even for a game or two master (lucio and soldier). Sure maybe if I kept going I could have magically gotten better teammates but I'd prefer to not drop even farther and get matched with shittier and shittier players that I didn't belong with.
I joined a gaf 6 stack and climbed easily, winning the large majority of my games and still getting medals and putting out good performances. In a few of those games I even had master performances despite playing at a skill rating of almost 900 points higher than where solo q left me.
I placed in diamond this season playing all 10 games as Zen. The less SR gain issue doesn't exist anymore.
I think you missed the point entirely. You aren't the only person losing because you have a team of 5 DPS. You get screwed as much as anyone else gets screwed. Everyone is going to run into bad teams, but if you are as good as you think you are, you are going to rise up overall anyway.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Lucio is a good pick in solo queue, but some people assume that he can solo heal, which he really can't in a lot of comps.
Psychoward
Banned
The problem is there's no algorithm in place to magically get you better teams after losing some games, in fact if you're consistently losing games you're just gonna get worse teams. It's pure luck. In addition now even though I've been playing at a high level with the GAF stack I'm never going to hit high plat let alone diamond this season because as our overall SR increases the matches are gonna be split 50/50 more, capping me at plat even if I put out diamond level performances.
Ah, to be fair I was playing mostly as Zarya, I just remember it being an issue in 2.
I don't believe ELO hell exists, but I think the feeling that you're stuck in your ranking can exist due to bad luck. The thing about ELO is that it's meant to work at a large number of games, you can't look at it like "oh, I've lost the last 7 games, I'm in ELO hell", the variance is gonna exist at such a small scale. I think most people that claim to be in ELO hell are just on a streak of bad luck, or are actually where they belong but think they're better.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
In games like Overwatch or League of Legends, ELO hell is real. In a game like Hearthstone and Street Fighter it's 1v1 so you can only complain so much about luck or counters/being countered, but in team based games theres a lot more variables and you have to rely on random people on the internet being decent to each other when the chance of them ever meeting again is low, and thats a fun time
Bumbletron
Member
Soldier/Zen is a very viable contender for main comp requirement this patch. They can one clip D.Va now with that (without crits). And soldier without headshots can do 245~ consistent dps to discorded targets.
Ana is good, but she can't top off tanks through fire any more, so her team healing suffers much more than may be readily apparent.
D.Va melts like butter to most dps heroes now.
Hook still needs testing before I can comment. But being able to play corners against hog should mean that mid-high level play should make hog a battery once more. And hook should break on Genji/Tracer dash as well, meaning a substantial increase in play for the two. Which is also good news when trying to break tank comps.
Sym remains good, if not better for these changes and Tracer/Genji's possible resurgence. Zen should also make a huge comeback (he was already seeing quite a bit of use instead of Ana) primarily due to discord + Soldier synergy and secondarily synergy with tracer and genji.
Ana is good, but she can't top off tanks through fire any more, so her team healing suffers much more than may be readily apparent.
D.Va melts like butter to most dps heroes now.
Hook still needs testing before I can comment. But being able to play corners against hog should mean that mid-high level play should make hog a battery once more. And hook should break on Genji/Tracer dash as well, meaning a substantial increase in play for the two. Which is also good news when trying to break tank comps.
Sym remains good, if not better for these changes and Tracer/Genji's possible resurgence. Zen should also make a huge comeback (he was already seeing quite a bit of use instead of Ana) primarily due to discord + Soldier synergy and secondarily synergy with tracer and genji.
I mean, the difference between a 2600 plat and a 2400 gold is very little, about 6 games difference. So I don't see why you should be able to carry them. Obviously good communication helps, but its a team game so I don't get your point? I'm just saying not everyone can be stuck in 'elo hell', which according to this community and the reddit sub they are.
Also the enemy team is more often than not in exactly the same position as yours. In gold people make awful picks, positioning mistakes and miss shots all the time. If you can't capitalize then maybe you didn't deserve the win?
Its barely any less, I've played Ana more than anyone else this season and havent noticed.
Psychoward
Banned
yup
there are some variables inherently out of a player's control - ELO hell has to exist. The only thing worth arguing about is the extent of it.
The more games you play, the more this evens out.
When I first started playing this game I got mad, too. I blamed teammates, Matchmaking, whatever. Eventually I stopped and looked at it logically, got a little better and ended up where I wanted.
Psychoward
Banned
yeah and eventually I stopped relying on randoms to play the game well and just played with a group and I'm climbing to where my performances actually put me at
Psychoward
Banned
it's not a straight conversion obviously and like I said it was just a few performances. I'm saying I played a few soldier games where my critical hit accuracy, etc. were all way, way above the level I was playing at.
Bumbletron
Member
Sample size though. Trust me, I'm no grandmaster Ana, but it's convinced I am because I don't really play her on my smurf.
If you only climb within groups, I don't think it really helps your case, especially if you go on huge losing streaks afterwords.
Psychoward
Banned
I know, and I'm saying even if you put out grandmaster performances you don't automatically win a game.
Hence, you need to rely on teammates and communication to win games and climb rank.
Hence, ELO hell is inevitably a real thing that exists.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
I love the idea of a gaf 6 stack but it really doesn't work in execution. Main reason is because you'll run into other 6 stacks that actually know each-others playstyles. And I think it's kind of helpful to have a random or two that you have to make your team comp around. With a 6 stack that doesn't really know eachother there is just a weird thing where no one seems to want to pick who they actually want to pick because they just want to be great teammates. And no one wants to say that they actually aren't comfortable at all with the role they've been left with.
We went like 1-6 today. And they weren't very close games. I think the only way to do it is if everyone said who they were good with beforehand and then just stuck to those roles in every game.
Rank doesn't mean much to me anymore, but sorry to everyone else who was in that group. Not our day.
We went like 1-6 today. And they weren't very close games. I think the only way to do it is if everyone said who they were good with beforehand and then just stuck to those roles in every game.
Rank doesn't mean much to me anymore, but sorry to everyone else who was in that group. Not our day.
Psychoward
Banned
Why are you still not grasping that one person can't carry a win in Overwatch? How am I expected to win solo q if my teammates are shitty, pick terrible comps and don't use mics. There are games where I get 3-5 gold medals and we still lose. That's not my fault lol
You got lucky with your solo q teammates, congrats. I don't. I don't play solo q comp anymore.
Here's the real thing: there is good luck/bad luck, sometimes you get worse teammates than the other team, sometimes it's equal, sometimes they're better. Even in Diamond/Plat you get teams that 1) someone doesn't want to communicate 2) someone troll picks 3) you get stomped in 5 mins. Bad luck games.
There are also heroes that can carry more than others (because they depend less than others). DPS is my preferred role for this. I actually don't think Lucio is a good choice. You need to kill people, I don't think Lucio does that very effectively (I'd play Ana/Zenn over him, and I feel like Mercy has a better ult for low rank stomping).
There are also heroes that can carry more than others (because they depend less than others). DPS is my preferred role for this. I actually don't think Lucio is a good choice. You need to kill people, I don't think Lucio does that very effectively (I'd play Ana/Zenn over him, and I feel like Mercy has a better ult for low rank stomping).
Its you put out a grandmaster performance in platinum you will win that game.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
If you want to call it elo hell instead of 'bad luck' fine. But that means that elo heaven also exists, that doesn't fit the narrative as well.
No matter what it feels like, you are not always the one on the team with the awful teammates you play against those teams too.
No matter what it feels like, you are not always the one on the team with the awful teammates you play against those teams too.
Psychoward
Banned
I literally have the receipts to show my master performances in low gold games despite losing.
That's not true.
I'm not saying I deserve to be in master, far from it. I realize the conversion isn't 1:1 because I'm playing against enemies who aren't master level.
*with DPS or maybe tank.
I've played games I've felt I have single handedly won the game.
Edit: never mind, I take that back, even a god support can make all the difference.
RespectThySole
Member
200 less armor seems pretty significant. D.Va will get wrecked by DPS heroes. Soldier is going to run wild now.
Show me the vods then, because the stats dont really mean shit.
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