Psychoward
Banned
The only way to remove reinhardt and lucio as being team anchors is to delete them entirely
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- Thread starter ExMachina
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Vault Dweller 111
Member
Nah you can further nerf Lucio by taking away speedboost but I don't know how you nerf Rein without making him a different hero altogether. His shield is just so important.
Psychoward
Banned
Yep
I remember people flipping out about the d.va and soldier buffs and others were like "we'll blizzard said they're gonna be more drastic in their ptr changes but not everything is gonna go though, they're just testing it out"
How naive we were
Maybe I should start being super specific about everything I type. In the end, every hero can be balanced to a desirable degree. Yes this means Bastion may be used 5% and Reinhardt 70%. But it's way better than a 0% Bastion and a 99% Reinhardt. A D tier character in a fighting game can still win based on player input. While individual player skill isn't the whole of Overwatch, I think if Blizzard looks into all the problematic heroes we can obtain a desirable balance. And this has nothing to do with accepting your hero is bad, they have the means available to make each hero (Ana, Roadhog and D.Va) balanced (without going overboard) by just tweaking things every so often on the PTR while it's up. They attempted it once, and didn't follow through with it the best, and now when people are getting fed up with the balance issues in the game now they should be really be taking advantage of it to ease their jobs in the long run. Yes Blizzard should have final say, but WE arguably play the game more than most of the crew, sometimes in a decent competitive setting, and can tell them when a change is too much or isn't enough. God forbid Symmetra stayed in the state she was a few months ago, Blizzard definitely had the right idea about that initially when they thought everyone was playing her wrong. And obviously when I say the community, I mean everyone who isn't an Ana, D.Va, or Roadhog main that gets upset when their hero gets a nerf just because. Blizzard knows sensible criticism from fanboyish drivel and kneejerk reactions. There's also an extensive pro community that can tell them when something isn't right or healthy.
Psychoward
Banned
Yeah that's basically what I meant.
You either have to nerf them in to oblivion or rework them.
Bear Force One
Banned
PS4 queue was a joy.
Bear Force One
Banned
So good for Sombra too. So many quick twists and turns.
You're basically just saying what I posted above. I'm not advocating 50% usage or some shit for every hero, what would actually be the point of playing something like that? There needs to be an A Tier to D Tier in every game, but it doesn't have to be as drastic as heroes who get played all the time and heroes who get next to nothing. And I'm only talking about Ana, D.Va, and Roadhog changes here. They can keep their visions with respect to criticism out there while the PTR is up.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
But then when would the changes get implemented? You're talking about balancing in very small increments i feel unless I'm reading it wrong, and at that point who would bother? Most would just rather play the live game rather than be unpaid qa testers. Ptr works because each change is substantial enough to get people to break from the live game, but even then it's apparently not enough.
Like the way you describe it makes it sound like people will alternate between live and ptr fairly regularly and that's not realistic. I'm fairly hardcore into this game but i don't want to do that either.
Like the way you describe it makes it sound like people will alternate between live and ptr fairly regularly and that's not realistic. I'm fairly hardcore into this game but i don't want to do that either.
Newtype-001
Member
Disgusting.
This what ptr is for i guess.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Like this is my experience with ptr. First, it's laggy as shit because it rarely drops me into Australian servers but that's kinda whatever. Second, people rarely ever takes it that seriously, because they want to go hands on with the changes themselves so very rarely you get an ideal team comp to actually test to see how the changes will affect team comp. How exactly do you get valuable feedback from that, in the time period needed?
yep this is actually how blizz wanted to work.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FADI!! We got bodied.
The decline continues.....
Thanks for SR
Vault Dweller 111
Member
If that was all intentional then we have much bigger issues.
Well, this is the same blizzard that pushed a blatantly broken strong Dva to live so who knows.
Yeah, like the broken hog that was in the game since launch.
Earthpainting
Member
The tweaks to DVa and Roadhog seem drastic, but they seem for the better. We'll have to mess around with it for a few weeks to see how they fare in practice.
Perhaps then what we need is giving some more ranged or beefy characters the ability to upset the Rein balance. Something as simple as making Zarya's beam pass through his shield can do the trick. You can give the same treatment to level 3 Torbjorn turrets, and Ana's regular shots as well.
I think people focus too much on nerfing heroes directly. It makes more sense in a team-based game to nerf characters by tweaking others. You can easily contest Reinhardt's necessity by making him less viable when certain heroes are in play. In theory this is already present in the game, since Bastion melts away Rein's shield, Symmetra's attacks can pass through it, and Sombra can disable it entirely. Sadly enough Bastion is very easily countered, and in order to do enough damage, he has to turtle up. This turret form promotes static plays that are not great for teamwork, and are just not very compatible with large sections of most maps. Symmetra has to be able to get close to do some work, which is hard when Rein has an entourage behind him that can quickly dispose of Symmetra. She can only contest Reinhardt when he advances into a boobytrapped area or around corners, which makes her share quite a few viability flaws with Bastion. Sombra is still relatively new, and I haven't put much time into her yet. I can't really comment on her worth in this field, since I simply see too few Sombras to begin with. I'm guessing her survivability isn't great once she starts hacking.
Perhaps then what we need is giving some more ranged or beefy characters the ability to upset the Rein balance. Something as simple as making Zarya's beam pass through his shield can do the trick. You can give the same treatment to level 3 Torbjorn turrets, and Ana's regular shots as well.
Seriously.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Broken? Meh, few bad hooks, but he's been super balanced overall since the game launched, never seeing major nerfs or buffs. He happens to thrive in the tank meta that has fewer ults.
Reddit posted enough gifs of lame hooks that Blizz took action. And currently the PTR stuff goes too far.
I have plenty of personal experience getting bs hooked, its not just a few reddit gifs. Practically every pro bar harbleu and hymzI hate him for good reason.
If Blizzard thinks he is too weak, they will buff him eventually. Since he's been broken for 6 months it should be around July.
BossDarkseid
Member
.,
Vault Dweller 111
Member
I'd want to see the receipts about every other pro hating him. But I think I'm done being the Hog defense force.
IF tank meta dies, then it will be worth losing a top 5 hero. If it doesn't, well, spending a little less time on Overwatch will probably be good for me.
IF tank meta dies, then it will be worth losing a top 5 hero. If it doesn't, well, spending a little less time on Overwatch will probably be good for me.
Trickster
Member
Imagine if reinhardt and roadhog were completely different from one another, offered different utlity and used different abilities.
Wtf is Blizzard thinking? lol
I knew this was going to be the problem with the line of sight changes.
I really don't see much wrong with that Roadhog youtube clip posted. How is a hook supposed to go through a pole or another object if their body is blocked? If you can see the other person's head that doesn't mean you deserve that hook. People are so used to the broken Hog that they are applying that logic to the changes when it should have never been that way.
Looks good. The next best thing they could have done, since apparently "delete Roadhog" wasn't an option.
BossDarkseid
Member
I regret solo queue every time.
Edit: NOT TODAY./ we won
Next queue: Oasis. vs a team of 5 diamonds. lolkillme. Internet crashed on Round 2 so...a loss? I was on 2884 before I got dc'd. Now I'm on 2813!? That's ludicrous. and a temporary suspension. jesus.
Edit: NOT TODAY./ we won
Next queue: Oasis. vs a team of 5 diamonds. lolkillme. Internet crashed on Round 2 so...a loss? I was on 2884 before I got dc'd. Now I'm on 2813!? That's ludicrous. and a temporary suspension. jesus.
Hey, Blizzard are the masters of balance right guys?
Light posts can (or at least could) protect you from D.Va's ult too, they're a beast.
LurkerPrime
Member
RIP Roadhog
you almost lasted a year
Wait, is Oasis actually in the rotation? I haven't seen it at all either...
you almost lasted a year
Wait, is Oasis actually in the rotation? I haven't seen it at all either...
I like both, when the hook land you die, and now everyone has a clear understanding of Hog's effective range, it's a fair game and still is one of the strongest abilities in the game.
Meccs
Member
At least in QP it is. I've seen it a few times but mostly the same few maps come up for me. 80% I play just 3 maps for some reason.
Won a down 0-2 comeback on Oasis when I only played it once in PTR. Felt good man.
I have to say that from what little I've played of Oasis, it's my fav map probably tied with Eichenwalde.
Newtype-001
Member
Tbh i liked when you could get the hook to curve over the edge to get an enemy you know is there but out of los gonna miss that.
Abusing people who are out of position
Abusing people who are out of position
Yep. I also like the change that everything beside tanks is dead now if hooked. No Ana, Mei, Symmetra, sometimes even Baby DVA surviving bullshit.
Yeah some of the points in that vid are weird. "You can't hook Rein who's 95% around the corner even though you can CLEARLY shoot the tip of his shoulder!!!!". Nothing in that vid is nearly as wonky as some of his current hook bs, if it's not perfect it is still better than the way it works in the unpatched servers.
The DVA nerfs are also good, but she probably needs something for the matrix too. Let it be more visible. Let the size decrease on time or whatever. Probably the most annoying character to play against in this meta. I liked McCree a lot in S2, but he is almost unplayable now and get's countered harder by her than Genji by Winston.
The new hooks line of sight requirement seems wonky in that vid, but at least it's a step in the right direction. Roadhog fits much better into the game as a whole as a tank who punishes people out of position than some sort of mid-range,instagib peek-sniper. Maybe they should reduce the time from when the hook connects to when the chain starts pulling back to balance it out a bit. Give people less time to get behind cover sort of thing.
It's also a quality of life update for everyone other than roadhog as being pulled though a wall feels really, really bad.
It's also a quality of life update for everyone other than roadhog as being pulled though a wall feels really, really bad.
GrandHarrier
Member
Entirely OK with all the hook changes, videos and gifs shown. He's been stupid good with endless bullshit hooks. You should be able to juke a hook like that. His hooks should punish out of punish characters, not just auto delete someone.
Shields down, I'll hide behind this truck to regen. *gets hooked and dragged around the truck*
This might be too extreme of a fix but there's not a lot of goodwill built up. I just started getting better at roadhog, I mostly hooked visible people and didn't get too many cheesy grabs so I might still play him a bit.
This might be too extreme of a fix but there's not a lot of goodwill built up. I just started getting better at roadhog, I mostly hooked visible people and didn't get too many cheesy grabs so I might still play him a bit.
BossDarkseid
Member
Despite my meltdown earlier, just managed to win 2 games in a row on Ilios as Lucio...I've played so much Mercy that my mentality about Ultimate useage etc is a little off for him (I basically lost us one round by not using my Ult when me + Ana + an Ult'd Hanzo were left) but he's really fun.
I try to make use of Speed Boost when everyone is healed or maybe respawning...or if I've Ult'd or we're just doing a combo of Ults, but I still managed to get gold healing (12k for 4 rounds seems quite low but maybe I'm used to Mercy numbers). Also managed to actually contribute a little in terms of damage/kills. Booped a few of the enemy (a Soldier/Mercy double kill, Ana, and D.va down the Well) off the map.
Funny how a few wins make everything better
I try to make use of Speed Boost when everyone is healed or maybe respawning...or if I've Ult'd or we're just doing a combo of Ults, but I still managed to get gold healing (12k for 4 rounds seems quite low but maybe I'm used to Mercy numbers). Also managed to actually contribute a little in terms of damage/kills. Booped a few of the enemy (a Soldier/Mercy double kill, Ana, and D.va down the Well) off the map.
Funny how a few wins make everything better
xChildOfHatex
Member
I play a lot of Roadhog, though admittedly I'm not too good with him. I feel like the around the corner hooking removal is great, but I fail to understand how removing the hook if a character moves behind a post or into cover soon after getting hooked is anywhere near logical? It's a hook. It hooks people. If people are out of LoS before the hook lands, then they shouldn't be punished, but if the hook has landed, out of position squishees should die. I've really got no horse in this race though, because I've basically stopped using Roadhog frequently since a fortnight and usually default to D.Va or Zarya, but these changes to Hog seem pretty drastic, as do the ones to D.Va.
I've made my feelings regarding D.Va's huge pool of armour known before (I've argued that it's way too much), but straight away halving them seems too drastic. I guess I was expecting them to lower it in small(er) increments of say 100 maybe? Ana nerf is.... OK(?), but biotic grenade's 50% increase to healing and disabling enemy healing is still too much. Maybe halve the effectiveness of enemy healing, instead of disabling it altogether?
I've made my feelings regarding D.Va's huge pool of armour known before (I've argued that it's way too much), but straight away halving them seems too drastic. I guess I was expecting them to lower it in small(er) increments of say 100 maybe? Ana nerf is.... OK(?), but biotic grenade's 50% increase to healing and disabling enemy healing is still too much. Maybe halve the effectiveness of enemy healing, instead of disabling it altogether?
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