LurkerPrime
Member
I didn't want to love Junkrat, but I love Junkrat.
He's just that good.
He's just that good.
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Overwatch |OT6.99999997311%| Game of the Year
- Thread starter ExMachina
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Psychoward
Banned
Free weekender eh?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Depends on what you want.
Do you want your group to heal off junk damage during the initial poking phase? Lucio.
You want someone to actually win a team fight? Someone pocketed by ana is nigh unkillable and biotic grenade is ridiculous in a group fight situation.
36hps x 6 might be mathematically more healing but being able to give someone 150HPS is definitely more valuable in an actual team fight. Not to mention the 100 group heal of a biotic grenade.
Also good anas should be juggling damage and healing so it's not a constant cadence of healing that lucio can do.
didn't the dev say sombra is on offense because of her flanking ability?
anyway about the hanzos hate, it just because most hanzo player are playing him as a sniper. he's really good for pushing the point and getting picks with either headshots or scatter arrow. his dragon is a great deterrent for people to gtfo the way (or point) lol.
rein on point, np just dragon and he'll move wether he like it or not.
anyway about the hanzos hate, it just because most hanzo player are playing him as a sniper. he's really good for pushing the point and getting picks with either headshots or scatter arrow. his dragon is a great deterrent for people to gtfo the way (or point) lol.
rein on point, np just dragon and he'll move wether he like it or not.
Nuno Pinto
Member
Psychoward
Banned
The next UI update needs to have a Halo: Reach like party system.
I should be able to see easily which of my friends are in parties, how many people are in each party and their username, what playlist they're in etc.
it baffles me that a team-based game with this amount of polish and resources doesn't have that
I should be able to see easily which of my friends are in parties, how many people are in each party and their username, what playlist they're in etc.
it baffles me that a team-based game with this amount of polish and resources doesn't have that
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Actually the next UI update should be me being able to customise where my healthbar is.
I don't know what it is about this update but I found it harder to tell that I'm in low health.
I don't know what it is about this update but I found it harder to tell that I'm in low health.
LucidMomentum
Member
I've been hovering in Plat since the start of S2 :/
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I'm still not sure how accurate oversumo is but it sure makes me feel good.
Apparently I was at a grandmaster level in elims and damage as mei yesterday.
Apparently I was at a grandmaster level in elims and damage as mei yesterday.
I just had a game where a Sombra kept hacking me as Reinhardt all game, but none of her teammates attacked me while I was vulnerable. Like, seriously, every time, from beginning to the end of the match, everyone left me alone while I shuttled the payload across the map, because apparently everyone wanted to play TDM instead. She must have been so pissed at her team lol
i didn't realize it did that. A+
First game playing Sombra and of course both teams are super serious... in quickplay. Sigh.
Her guns does real lousy damage, I found myself hacking people and not being able to kill them off before they had their abilities back, guess I need to do it mid-combat, not before engaging. Then again, the way she can pop up almost anywhere, maybe it's for the best. Phantom was really annoying for a while in Dirty Bomb.
Her guns does real lousy damage, I found myself hacking people and not being able to kill them off before they had their abilities back, guess I need to do it mid-combat, not before engaging. Then again, the way she can pop up almost anywhere, maybe it's for the best. Phantom was really annoying for a while in Dirty Bomb.
LucidMomentum
Member
I'm still not sure how accurate oversumo is but it sure makes me feel good.
Apparently I was at a grandmaster level in elims and damage as mei yesterday.
My Mei and Zarya are on a Master level, apparently.
I think that's just because I'm in Plat and outplaying people when I play them though.
AlexFlame116
Member
I just wanted to say after playing with the new update for about a week, I don't like Sombra at all. Extremely annoying for me.
Probably me just being salty and not good enough haha!
Probably me just being salty and not good enough haha!
For those who went from PS4 to PC, do you think it was worth it?
One thing I noticed from watching streams is that you always get to play against different people when you're at the higher ranks which is really nice. I know I won't get anywhere near as high on PC as I did on PS4, but I think it would be good to play with a more diverse pool of people at whatever skill level I end up at. It got to the point where I knew what a lot of people on the other team would use.
If I mainly played tanks on PS4 (D.Va, Reinhardt, Zarya, learning Winston) how difficult would it be to transition if I did the same on PC since they aren't as aiming intensive as DPS heroes? I made it to grandmaster on PS4, where do you guys think that would put me on PC?
One thing I noticed from watching streams is that you always get to play against different people when you're at the higher ranks which is really nice. I know I won't get anywhere near as high on PC as I did on PS4, but I think it would be good to play with a more diverse pool of people at whatever skill level I end up at. It got to the point where I knew what a lot of people on the other team would use.
If I mainly played tanks on PS4 (D.Va, Reinhardt, Zarya, learning Winston) how difficult would it be to transition if I did the same on PC since they aren't as aiming intensive as DPS heroes? I made it to grandmaster on PS4, where do you guys think that would put me on PC?
LucidMomentum
Member
Thanks. I am down for this or whenever.
Yeah Sombra works best when you're coordinated with your team. Otherwise she is a worst pick than Tracer or Genji. So she's not really a pub stomper but she will be in the pro meta.
Had a pretty nice McCree, Reinhardt wombo combo last game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YywSryGxXaA
xaosslug
Member
just had a King's Row defence match where things looked dire, I thought I was the only person alive/coming back from spawn, the enemy team is standing on the 1st point - circle's almost closed... as a last ditch effort I ult and am quickly killed, and out of nowhere comes my teammate Genji w/ his ult to waste the the enemy team and save the point.
this fucking game, y'all. T__T
this fucking game, y'all. T__T
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I don't even know about that.
Pro teams are real gun shy with using sombra atm and she hasn't been super amazing when they break her out.
Couldave been within 100 points of diamond tonight, but ran into three games with people who were there just to throw cause its then end of the season, and now I have to do 250 points in like the 6 hours I'll have till the end :/
So much for reaching that tier before the 23rd.
Too bad they dont get perma'd from the damn game/comp for doing that shit.
So much for reaching that tier before the 23rd.
Too bad they dont get perma'd from the damn game/comp for doing that shit.
I'm no pro (I'm not even good lol) but it seems like she has to spend a large amount of time away from her team to set up shenanigans. The health pack stuff is crazy but I figure most good teams have great supports. Hacking seems unreliable. And her damage isn't as crazy as people claimed. The ULT seems to be the biggest deal so far..which is neat but isn't that just one thing?
My guess is that she's going to be like Genji was before his nerf. Kind of hard to use and you need to coordinate with your team, but the helplessness so many characters once you EMP them is so significant, it will be gamebreaking. Whenever I introduced people to the game, I told them that learning the abilities was 50% of the game, and learning the maps was 35%. Shooting accurately is still important, but not nearly as much in most fps. You strip those away from the characters, very few of them can survive long. A Tracer who can't blink/rewind is a sitting duck. Reinhardt is just a big and easy target with a melee weapon he can't get close enough to use. Other characters like Hanzo and Soldier might be relatively less effected, since their abilities are based around their ability to fire, but even they take a hit.
We'll see in the future, but once people know how to get a handle on her, I think she'll be a real problem. Because, as far as I can tell, there's no explicity way to counter this tactic. You can't in any way track her when she's invisible, you can only pray some random stray bullet disrupts her camo. So there's no way of not letting her get behind you. The only way I can see is to make sure your team is spread out enough so that Sombra never catches everyone at once, but that's difficult to do.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
I think Sombra is an interesting character, but she's kind of hard to use. She requires a lot of quick thinking. You have to throw a recall orb, go invisible, get behind the enemy or health pack, hack them, and then recall back to your orb, and you have to do that all in 15 seconds. I don't recommend her 1 on 1 a majority of people, because it takes an entire clip and maybe more. Plus she has such low hp, so she dies really fast.
She's definitely more of a defense character and just because she can flank doesn't mean she should be used as a DPS. I think if Blizzard once to make her a DPS, they need to make an adjustment to either her health, or DPS or her cool downs.
Speaking of which I think Ana's cooldowns should be raised. Why should her health pack have a less cost time than Widowmaker's grappling hook? Maybe make it 10-12 seconds instead.
She's definitely more of a defense character and just because she can flank doesn't mean she should be used as a DPS. I think if Blizzard once to make her a DPS, they need to make an adjustment to either her health, or DPS or her cool downs.
Speaking of which I think Ana's cooldowns should be raised. Why should her health pack have a less cost time than Widowmaker's grappling hook? Maybe make it 10-12 seconds instead.
Incendiary
Banned
After getting to play a lot more as Sombra in QP, I think I've decided to only play her on 2CP or Hybrid defense maps. Maybe KOTH. I think I'm really good with defending and holding a point with her, but any time I play on Attack or payload defense, I just suck with her. Had a match on Hollywood tonight where I had 5 medals, 3 golds, and 1 death while we held the first capture point for the first 4 minutes, but when they took the point my stats tanked and I just couldn't play her well at all.
I do enjoy playing as her, but there are just too many other characters I can be successful with on attack as offense over her.
I do enjoy playing as her, but there are just too many other characters I can be successful with on attack as offense over her.
I think she works as a DPS because her SMG is fucking vicious. The clip is huge and if you have decent aim, you're going to be doing lots of work.
I would go the opposite of your suggestion. Lower her health to 150 or her DPS and make list her as a defense character rather than an offense one. Her abiltiites just seem to fit it better. Since their centered around evading (her orb and invis) and debuffing the enemy team(hacking). She honestly feels like a variation of Tracer to me, so why not put her in a different catergory.
That said, I don't actually know what the difference between offense and defense characters are supposed to be. Def characters just don't seem to have as much mobility, but played aggressively, they basically do a lot of damage (in the more casual sphere, of course). Tanks are supposed to be huge fuckers with a ton of health but not much speed, support characters are ones that buff the team to make them stronger (Symmetra seems to be getting reworked to do this better), while Offensive are explicitly supposed to kill people. But defense characters are suppose to....also kill people? They have less mobility, but in terms of the role they have in their team, I'm not sure what differentiates them from offense.
Speaking of Sombra, anyone have any suggestions on how to play her? I've just been hacking a health pack, drop translocator, stealth behind enemy lines and try to deal damage/survive until my translocator time is almost up then port back. Rinse. Repeat. Doesn't seem like a bad strategy, but I feel there's a lot more I could be doing but I feel so frail as her
She was actually my gateway character to Tracer. I could never get the hang of Tracer, but once I started doing that with Sombra, the transition to Tracer, whose much better at hit and run, was smoother and I'm pretty amazed at how easy it is to survive with her as a result.
But yeah, that's my basic strategy too. I think you'll be a greater asset to the team if you're selective about who you hack. Like, if you have a McCree and Reinhardt in front of you, you go for the Reinhardt. But I think that is the way to play Sombra. She's not really frail, she has as much HP as most, but since you are literally sneaking into the enemy ranks, the moment they spot you, you're in big trouble, like any character would be. But if there is a way to play her differently, I don't know it.
Hack, Hit, Run.
17 Seconds
Banned
did the arcade rewards reset yet?
Psychoward
Banned
Defense characters are area of denial. In theory a Junkrat, Torb, Bastion or Mei should be able to lock down a point or stall attackers. Offense characters in theory are supposed to shoot things until they're dead and be able to be mobile.
Ricerocket
Member
Defense heroes (bastion, torb, junkrat, widow, etc) can kill yes but they need to remain in an area to be effective. You won't see them moving ahead to flank like reaper/soldier/mccree/tracer who can move up and kill allowing you rteam to move forward.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Thing is, from what I've seen, this meta revolves around a lot on being very scrappy in dry fights and being able to get picks. NiP won recently because their strategy basically relies on hymzi being a god on roadhog and getting picks before the fight even starts. Is sombra a character that can get scrappy and bring value in long, extended team fights, and is she a character that can reliably mark someone for death (ie roadhog hook, mei wall, hanzo logs)? You'd think that hack would be the thing but it's not as reliable as I expected.
EMP is great but there are so many great ults that can break a point wide open already. What value does she bring in ultless fights?
EMP is great but there are so many great ults that can break a point wide open already. What value does she bring in ultless fights?
I guess, but only a few of them actually do area denial vs shooting things until their dead. I mean, you can count killing players as area denial, but by that logic, Offensive characters are area deniers too.
Mei puts up walls and has her ultimate make an area unapproachable. And her icicle powers mean she survives a bit longer. Those abilities will rarely result in a kill, but they do deny the enemy team victory. Torbjorn too, his turrent is only going to get a kill if the enemy is too distracted to do anything about it. Otherwise, it just chases people off. So I can see an area denial argument for them.
But Hanzo and Widowmaker mainly kill people. Hanzo's ult can be an area denial I guess, but I think it's used offensively more often than not just because it doesn't cover near enough area. Similarly, Junkrat, sure his attacks cover a larger area, but same with Hanzo, they're usually aiming to kill. Bastion can be a straight up offense character since his abilities revolve around killing.
I...don't know if I actually agree with that. Torbjorn, sure. But that's because his turret is an utter bitch to set up. But I move up with Hanzo all the time. I agree that defense characters have less mobility options, but generally speaking, the best Bastions, Hanzo's, Junkrat's, and Widow's I see generally don't stay in one place too long. They tend to die if they do that. So they might not have mobility abilities like offense heroes, but they do it.
Incendiary
Banned
I don't always leave my translocator by a health pack as an escape route. I've done a few cool tricks mid-battle where I'll throw the translocator behind an enemy I'm attacking, then when they turn around to face me I teleport and attack them from the other side. I'm trying not to always rely on having the translocator as an "escape" so to speak because a few times I've started taking damage and hit R1 reflexively as an escape but it's on cooldown because I misjudged the 15 second time limit.
The 15 second time limit is actually the thing that makes Sombra the hardest to use for me. I'd personally rather not have a time limit, but make the beacon destructible. I feel like that would be a good trade off.
MarioHead3
Banned
Bastion, Widow, and Torb basically have to sort of "set up" before they can really do anything. Junkrat too, to a lesser extent. That sort of playstyle generally doesn't work on offense. At least, it's not designed to.
Violence Jack
Member
Wow, this game is fun!
Wow, do I suck at it!
I just might plunk down $30 for this.
Wow, do I suck at it!
I just might plunk down $30 for this.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Also wall is honestly one of the best ways to guarantee a kill.
MarioHead3
Banned
Not against Reinhardt.
That's true, but does that their actual role different? I ask because the other classes aren't supposed to merely kill. Support is supposed to buffers/debufffers (which is why all supports have such abilities. Even Symmetra, who grants players additional shields). Tanks are supposed to survive longer than other characters for their hugeness, which is why they all have defensive abilities (Rein's shield, Zarya's bubbles, Winston's bubble, D.Va's DM. Roadhog is the only one that doesn't block damage, but he has his own self regen ability).
Sure, they overlap. Soldier can heal players, Sombra can debuff the enemy team, and every character regardless of class has offensive capabilities. But primarily, the role of Offense, Tanks, and Support are clear by their abilities. For me, the role of defense is harder to make out in a way that distinguishes it from offense.
Well, not directly. You know what I mean.
dryuriev7777
Member
Despite complaining about Sombra yesterday, I do love playing as her. Having those good games where you run around your opponents and consistently pick people off while denying health packs topped off with the Hacked highlight intro at the end feels so amazing. One thing I really want to be able to do is use Hack while in stealth. It's way too difficult to deny a Rein shield when he's protected by 3-4 people.
Psychoward
Banned
19 hours from this post
17 Seconds
Banned
i can see how sombra can be really good, but i just find her really tedious to play. it just doesn't feel fun to me.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Actually especially against reinhardt.
Those poor reins desperately hopping backwards with the shield up, unable to get away, as my whole team descends upon him.
To play mei is to bring out the sadist in yourself.
I believe it. Learning to play tracer is the same way for me.
I weave in and out of fights. Just...blink in take my shots, blink, shoot, blink, shoot. Enemies can rarely orient themselves to actually get enough hits in to kill me. And when tehy're about to, or when I've run out of blinks? Rewind. I literally reset my character, and they're stuck with the damage they have. If I haven't killed them, then usually a teammate finishes their limping selves off.
Really, playing tracer should be illegal. She's such a troll.
MarioHead3
Banned
Defense characters are supposed to be better for Defense than Offense. That may not actually be the case for all of them, but their kits certainly suggest that they were originally intended to be that way at least.
The shield makes it almost impossible to freeze Rein most of the time. At best, I can get my whole team to attempt to jump him, but no one ever wants to get close for some reason, so he usually just outlasts the ice wall.
McCree does better when enemies are coming at him than when he's heading towards them. He has so much anti-flanking utility but if he finds his way deep in enemy territory, he has no means of getting out unlike literally every other offense hero. And Deadeye is so much better on defense than offense.
Hanzo, on the other hand, crumbles under pressure. So since offense is pushing towards the defense, and Hanzo can't do much with his back against the wall, he is harder to be effective with on defense than offense. On offense, if the front line crumbles Hanzo can run away where defenders won't chase him to.
But, despite everything I just said, both heroes are great (in the right hands) on both offense and defense. Just like Sombra. Sure, her kit greatly benefits from having the time to set up hacked health packs to deny offensive recovery. But her hit and run tactics on defense are less effective because chances are, you're not teleporting back to the objective you need to defend. So she can get some picks, but she doesn't do well in sustained firefights which is crucial for defending objectives. On offense, you can retreat to wherever you want and so long as you're applying pressure on the defense, you're helping. Similarly, hacking a defending Reinhardt is so much more devastating than hacking an offense Reinhardt.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I dunno, I've had good luck in my team making sure that rein gets dead.
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