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Maybe it's because people are still trying to figure out her counters? There are still plenty of posts here asking about it, so it's clearly a factor.

I'm sorry, but I've never felt like I lost a game because of a Zarya or won a game because of a Zarya, and I've seen some good Zaryas.
 
Tbf Lucio is actually a pretty weak character now, but as it turns out you kinda just need a speedboost to do certain things and he's the only one that has it.

His ult is also still ridiculous.

optimus8936 said:
Maybe it's because people are still trying to figure out her counters? There are still plenty of posts here asking about it, so it's clearly a factor.
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I mean as a standalone hero she's pretty hard to counter anyways. If you wanna get into things a lot of the reason she is picked so often comes down to specific utility (like Lucio or Rein) on top o ffitting into most of the comps we have these days.
 
Anne said:
Zarya's probably a bit overtuned, but I don't really think she is that OP or even a big problem. There are a lot of other things to look at right now I think.

Also I'm pretty solidly convinced single character counters are more or less dead at tournament level anyways. There are favorable match ups but that's about it. Team comps and that level of play are way too optimized to let shit like that rock.

With that being said, Ana is on some pretty nuts shit right now. She's def the current "enabler" of a lot of bullshit.

Also, to the poster above me, a good number of pros complained about D.Va's DM being busted. A lot of it was like "meta makes it so she's not that good, but trust us that thing can be a problem"
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Zarya's status on console is the issue. Right after the Aim Assist change, her beam's range feels like it doubled. I don't really know how else to say it, because it wasn't Aim Assist itself causing this feeling, as her beam was pretty damn easy to aim consistently before.

She wasn't a problem before. Now, she's starting to feel like she is. There's a clear divide between pre- and post-patch.

I agree with Ana needing tuning. She heals incredibly fast, with the caveat that she has to hit the target, while building Ult (increasingly one of the best in the game now that even random groups know what to expect out of it) at a ludicrous rate.

I can't see any way that the Ult gain rate isn't slashed.


EDIT: Tracer is my go-to for Zarya counters. She has it all. 3 clips does it, as long as you keep a steady harass going.
 
Anne said:
Tbf Lucio is actually a pretty weak character now, but as it turns out you kinda just need a speedboost to do certain things and he's the only one that has it.

His ult is also still ridiculous.
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Doesn't sound like a weak hero to me?
Nimby said:
Maybe nerf Graviton?
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lol no. Graviton needs another ult to be at its maximum effectiveness and can be easily countered by Zen and Lucio ults, and around half the cast can escape it, and a few of them have some way of blocking the damage with shields.
 
optimus8936 said:
I'm sorry, but I've never felt like I lost a game because of a Zarya or won a game because of a Zarya, and I've seen some good Zaryas.
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Maybe we have a different definition of what you mean by this. But I feel like Zarya is the most important factor in the match and the difference maker in probably over 30% of every game I play ( and a lot of the time it's me.)
 
I mean, Zarya's beam accuracy on PC has always been pretty insane at higher levels so I'm not buying it too much. Making her accuracy not shit on console is def a buff but I mean we've always dealt with Zaryas that have near perfect tracking.

optimus8936 said:
Doesn't sound like a weak hero to me?
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A character can still be weak while also providing something unique you can't really pass up. If there were any other character that could augment the mobility of your team Lucio might be thrown in the trash can. The fact is there isn't so he still gets picked fairly often.
 
optimus8936 said:
Yeah they were nerfed recently, yet they are still used almost as much as before. They are still in the top 3 for most used heroes in the latest meta report.

Nerfing Zarya won't change anything. People will still think she's OP because she's just that useful.
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I'm not saying I want a nerf for her. I do think she'll get one, but I'd prefer a lateral movement for her. Something to keep her from being either negligible in a fight, or Rambo. Her utility is very massive, and I agree with you there. But I would argue that her utility is good enough that she probably doesn't need as much personal power as she has currently, though.

Anne said:
I mean, Zarya's beam accuracy on PC has always been pretty insane at higher levels so I'm not buying it too much. Making her accuracy not shit on console is def a buff but I mean we've always dealt with Zaryas that have near perfect tracking.
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This is absolutely the case. Once she gets past 50% charge, we pretty much have auto aim on PC too.
 
Graviton is fine in my opinion. It has so many counters.

Rein, D.Va and even Winston, although less effectively all counter by dropping the shield/DM/Bubble.

Zenyatta and Lucio can counter ult (although that's more of a soft counter, than a hard counter like the tanks).
 
I find that the healer is the most important factor in a match because, you know....

He keeps everyone alive and well and counters ults.

Zarya ain't gonna be much of a factor if all her teammates keep dying because the healer sucks.
 
Vault Dweller 111 said:
Who are her best counters? Roadhog, Bastion, and Reaper?

Reaper: She pretty much beats Reaper in a one on one 80% of the time.

Roadhog: Can't even kill her with his main combo. She will very often get away completely especially if she has a bubble. Annoys the hell out of Roadhog all game by shielding his hooked targets.

Bastion: Free 50 charge for every bubble that gets in front of him. She has an AOE arc shot that can totally displace/destroy Bastion. She can beat him head on if she has high charge + a bubble.

Anyone who deals with her counters so effectively is a problem. And she absolutely melts all other squishies. A fully charged Zarya pretty much sends any hero in the game running in fear. Add a new counter, nerf the auto aim, whatever. But in her current state she is ABSOLUTELY op. It's really not even a debate.
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I see a lot of reapers get scared and back off when she bubbles but if you wait it out with wraith reaper should win.
After a hook combo he can kill her with 1-2 more hits plus zarya is out of position and likely to die.
 
Anne said:
I mean, Zarya's beam accuracy on PC has always been pretty insane at higher levels so I'm not buying it too much. Making her accuracy not shit on console is def a buff but I mean we've always dealt with Zaryas that have near perfect tracking.
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But every other character has great accuracy too. Bringing Zarya up to PC level accuracy while everyone else is at console level? Yea.....
 
Vault Dweller 111 said:
But every other character has great accuracy too. Bringing Zarya up to PC level accuracy while everyone else is at console level? Yea.....
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I mean that makes some sense but still it's kinda eh. I am so far gone from console land these days I have no idea what to think of it anymore.

Haven't been playing online much myself either. Been doing interviews and pouring over high level play recently cause work.
 
optimus8936 said:
Doesn't sound like a weak hero to me?

lol no. Graviton needs another ult to be at its maximum effectiveness and can be easily countered by Zen and Lucio ults, and around half the cast can escape it, and a few of them have some way of blocking the damage with shields.
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Ana can counter Zen's ult now, and Lucio and Zen's ult don't block pulse bombs/high noons or at least not always with Lucio's ult. Full team wipes are still common after burning support ults on a graviton, and it's still a plus because you at least baited those ults out anyway.
 
Can we stop asking to nerf balanced heroes and actually look at the weaker heroes, like Torb, Symm, Bastion, and Widow?

Like, I feel like this is more important than nerfing a character that a lot of people just don't know how to counter.
 
optimus8936 said:
I play Zarya pretty heavily and I don't feel a difference in her aim except against Genji or Pharah. It still depends on the actual aim of the player.
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I honestly don't know what to say then.

Me and you play on the same console at a somewhat similar skill level. But based on this conversation I feel like we are playing a completely different game.
 
Jellie said:
I see a lot of reapers get scared and back off when she bubbles but if you wait it out with wraith reaper should win.
After a hook combo he can kill her with 1-2 more hits plus zarya is out of position and likely to die.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one to think of that. Wraith form when you have low health is just such a massive red flag to the opposition that you have no chance. But the tactic doesn't work if Zarya still ends up with 100 charge with that bubble. She should be able to out DPS you and you have no escape.

I do think there is a genuine problem with this abundance of tanks. Reaper simply can't deal with them which is absolutely hilarious considering he's supposed to be the premium tank buster.
 
optimus8936 said:
Can we stop asking to nerf balanced heroes and actually look at the weaker heroes, like Torb, Symm, Bastion, and Widow?

Like, I feel like this is more important than nerfing a character that a lot of people just don't know how to counter.
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Let's buff everyone. That way, there be no balance issues for ever more!

(I do agree with Symmetra and Widow needing some love. Widow in particular was a weird case, where Blizzard basically crippled her, when she just needed some readjustment.
 
optimus8936 said:
Can we stop asking to nerf balanced heroes and actually look at the weaker heroes, like Torb, Symm, Bastion, and Widow?

Like, I feel like this is more important than nerfing a character that a lot of people just don't know how to counter.
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I don't want them to nerf Zarya either lol. And I definitely don't want them to nerf her base kit.
 
xaosslug said:
OK, then... why the Zenny + Lucio nerfs? They were getting play every match. Why the Torb nerf on console? Zarya's 'balance' is coming.
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Because Zen and Lucio were literally must haves in pro games?

Because every console player complained about Torb and Blizz didn't look at all the facts?

Blizz balances on the pros decisions, so they were lost when it came to the Torb console nerf(pros don't play console), and they overdid it.

Again, until I hear what the pros think about Zarya, I think it's safe to say Blizz ain't touching her.
 
Nimby said:
Ana can counter Zen's ult now, and Lucio and Zen's ult don't block pulse bombs/high noons or at least not always with Lucio's ult. Full team wipes are still common after burning support ults on a graviton, and it's still a plus because you at least baited those ults out anyway.
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Lucio can block those ults. You need to look at their comp to predict the combo and anticipate which ults are ready. If you think pulse bomb is ready don't sound barrier as soon as you are gravitoned. Look for the tracer and ult as she does. With high noon ultimate just before he executes and you'll all most likely live. Though admittedly both are hard to pull off.
 
optimus8936 said:
Can we stop asking to nerf balanced heroes and actually look at the weaker heroes, like Torb, Symm, Bastion, and Widow?
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Bastion is in an alright spot, just super situational. I've seen Kor be pretty successful with him, and he's still the go-to when your team just can't clear the Rein Train from the Payload.

Those others on console, though... fucking yikes.

With the stacking issue gone, I wonder if simply un-nerfing them would help bring them back into rotation.
 
Xamtheking said:
I'd like a change to how easy it is for Zarya to get energy, but increase the damage based on her energy
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Well it could be something small. I suggested on the last page a lateral movement where max charge is upped to 125, her max damage is kept the same, but the damage is distributed evenly throughout the range. This leads to Zarya being more useful more of the time, but not as ridiculously strong from start-to-finish in a fight.
 
What if there was some indicator if her shield was on cool down or not? Seems reasonable. I'm not asking for her to be put in the dumpster people, she's one of my favorites, I want to keep playing her.
 
MattZ2007 said:
Well it could be something small. I suggested on the last page a lateral movement where max charge is upped to 125, her max damage is kept the same, but the damage is distributed evenly throughout the range. This leads to Zarya being more useful more of the time, but not as ridiculously strong from start-to-finish in a fight.
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The good thing about Zarya is that because she's so packed with numbers, it's very easy to make slight changes without making her too strong or too weak
 
Anne said:
Tbf Lucio is actually a pretty weak character now, but as it turns out you kinda just need a speedboost to do certain things and he's the only one that has it.

His ult is also still ridiculous.
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Weak but virtually essential, with a good ult, great mobility, and decent spam? He's still a 95 percent pick rate character.

Lucio is the virtuoso support character. He embodies everything about the team fight meta.
 
Trey said:
Weak but virtually essential, with a good ult, great mobility, and decent spam? He's still a 95 percent pick rate character.

Lucio is the virtuoso support character. He embodies everything about the team fight meta.
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Like I said before, you can have a character that is weak but has a high pick rate because it's just something you can't go without.
 
Vault Dweller 111 said:
What if there was some indicator if her shield was on cool down or not? Seems reasonable. I'm not asking for her to be put in the dumpster people, she's one of my favorites, I want to keep playing her.
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That could lead to Zaryas abusing that.

Wait till you get to max energy or close to max energy. Then hold on to your people so the other team has to be cautious because they can see your self bubble(and she could still use her teammate bubble with his strategy) and they don't know when you're gonna use this and this will lead to Zaryas just rolling through because everyone is being super cautious.

Also doesn't seem fair that she would be the only character where you can see her cooldowns. Doesn't seem fair. That's like doing the same thing for Roadhogs hook, it wouldn't really help.

I'm not saying this would happen, but it could be possible.
 
Vault Dweller 111 said:
This is like the go to lazy response.

if you're on PC and don't think she's OP, great. You're probably right. She HAS changed on console though, range and auto aim equates to an enormous buff. I watched a video of mine of a pre buff 'great' Zarya game, and it looked super weak compared to what I'm used to now.

I freaking love Zarya and play her better than most people. She a ton of fun. Doesn't mean I'm blind though.

My Tracer is one of the most effective Zarya counters I've seen and I have much less trouble with her than others.

Maybe it's not always people bitching about a hero they suck with and always get killed by. Maybe I actually know what I'm talking about and have some good points.
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I don't think the game should be balanced around console. Ever.

I think the true answer is nerf her auto-aim on console, and leave her as a hero alone. Her kit is fine, and she is perfectly countered with a good enough team, and she provides great utility and is an interesting and fun character to play with a relatively high skill ceiling.

As with most high skill ceiling heroes, once people beyond the pros start to become good at something, they go into the limelight and the nerfhammer comes down from people incessantly complaining.

I mean I dunno what to think. Do I have some games where I get 3-4 gold as Zarya and wreck shit? Yes. But I also have those games with D.Va (supposedly trash tier now) and Roadhog. Admittedly I am terrible at Rein, but you also see people wreck face with him on a good team. I'm not sure how Zarya is any less balanced.
 
optimus8936 said:
Can we stop asking to nerf balanced heroes and actually look at the weaker heroes, like Torb, Symm, Bastion, and Widow?

Like, I feel like this is more important than nerfing a character that a lot of people just don't know how to counter.
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I'm with you on this. So many characters are just useless on 50% of the modes, and only useful on the rest if they're played by players who really know what they're doing. I'm not rolling in the big leagues, but I almost never see an effective Symmetra, Widow or Winston.

And yes, I know Symm can be terrific on point A - you know what I mean.

Vault Dweller 111 said:
What if there was some indicator if her shield was on cool down or not? Seems reasonable. I'm not asking for her to be put in the dumpster people, she's one of my favorites, I want to keep playing her.
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Letting opposing players know when someone was on cooldown would destroy the balance. Imagine knowing how many blinks Tracer has left-you'd just need to bait her blinks and she'd lose all effectiveness.
 
Anne said:
Like I said before, you can have a character that is weak but has a high pick rate because it's just something you can't go without.
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A hero that you can't go without doesn't sound like a weak hero to me. Torb is a weak hero because he doesn't provide enough be a worthy pick. Lucio provides that.

^^ I almost feel like you're asking for Winston to be buffed and that would severely hurt this games balance. He's perfect right now, just a lot of people don't know how to use him effectively.
 
If anything should be changed in regards to Zarya it'd simply be the aim assist on console imo. I think I've said it before but a lot of peoples issues with Zarya essentially boils down to her kit itself, she is incredibly powerful in the right hands but not so much so that she needs nerfing.
 
Zarya op? Now I've heard it all.

She isn't very survivable by herself after the bubble runs out.

Just don't charge her up and rush her down after the bubble runs out.

Tracer and genji kill her for free, and mccree is good too. She pretty much can't hold her own against any attackers.
 
optimus8936 said:
Because Zen and Lucio were literally must haves in pro games?

Because every console player complained about Torb and Blizz didn't look at all the facts?

Blizz balances on the pros decisions, so they were lost when it came to the Torb console nerf(pros don't play console), and they overdid it.

Again, until I hear what the pros think about Zarya, I think it's safe to say Blizz ain't touching her.
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you say Blizz ain't gonna do a ish unless pros complain... yet there are 3 examples of Blizz 'doing something' w/o any pro input. The Zarya nerf IS coming, it's just a matter of when, how, and peeps acting shocked/surprised when it hits.

the same for Ana - an ult charge nerf is probably coming for her, too.
 
xaosslug said:
you say Blizz ain't gonna do a ish unless pros complain... yet there are 3 examples of Blizz 'doing something' w/o any pro input. The Zarya nerf IS coming, it's just a matter of when, how, and peeps acting shocked/surprised when it hits.

the same for Ana - an ult charge nerf is probably coming for her, too.
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Name these 3 examples.

If you think you're so sure about this, prove it instead of saying "Blizz doing it lol, it's inevitable."
 
PalaceBrother said:
Letting opposing players know when someone was on cooldown would destroy the balance. Imagine knowing how many blinks Tracer has left-you'd just need to bait her blinks and she'd lose all effectiveness.
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Any player that is remotely decent will see a CD be used and have a rough (give or take a second) count on when it will be used again anyways. If a team communicates when they see things this is really easy. showing CDs is a thing you shouldn't do because it devalues that skill along with the skill of being tricky with it, yeah, but anybody that is good will know that shit anyways.
 
Jellie said:
Lucio can block those ults. You need to look at their comp to predict the combo and anticipate which ults are ready. If you think pulse bomb is ready don't sound barrier as soon as you are gravitoned. Look for the tracer and ult as she does. With high noon ultimate just before he executes and you'll all most likely live. Though admittedly both are hard to pull off.
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Sometimes the choice ends up being dying to Dragonblade/similar ult or dying to a Graviton combo. If a nerf to Zarya was to come, I don't know what I'd want it to be. I just don't want it, or something that balances her meta-wise but staying mostly the same gameplay-wise.
 
7DollarHagane said:
Zarya op? Now I've heard it all.

She isn't very survivable by herself after the bubble runs out.

Just don't charge her up and rush her down after the bubble runs out.

Tracer and genji kill her for free, and mccree is good too. She pretty much can't hold her own against any attackers.
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You are either brand new to the game, play at a low rank, or have never faced a Zarya with a brain. Either way, almost all of your points are just plain wrong.

But yea, I'm spending far to much energy trying to argue that one of my favorite heroes is op. If they don't nerf her that's fine. Yea, sometimes she'll destroy my team, but way more often I'll be the one doing the destroying.
 
7DollarHagane said:
Zarya op? Now I've heard it all.

She isn't very survivable by herself after the bubble runs out.

Just don't charge her up and rush her down after the bubble runs out.

Tracer and genji kill her for free, and mccree is good too. She pretty much can't hold her own against any attackers.
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Zarya is a Genji counter, so.......
 
optimus8936 said:
Can we stop asking to nerf balanced heroes and actually look at the weaker heroes, like Torb, Symm, Bastion, and Widow?

Like, I feel like this is more important than nerfing a character that a lot of people just don't know how to counter.
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This x100. I absolutely hate the idea of nerfing. It's much more important to strengthen the under utilized and under played characters.
 
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