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Overwatch |OT6| Boop
- Thread starter ExMachina
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optimus8936
Banned
I just hate nerfing things that don't need it. Bungie did this with Destiny, and they basically destroyed any "balance" in that game.
I don't want that to happen with this game. Let's buff all the heroes that need it, then, we will talk about nerfing unless there is something that is clearly broken and the majority of people agree it needs to be nerfed immediately, and in this case, Zarya is not one of those cases.
I don't want that to happen with this game. Let's buff all the heroes that need it, then, we will talk about nerfing unless there is something that is clearly broken and the majority of people agree it needs to be nerfed immediately, and in this case, Zarya is not one of those cases.
Ana is closing in on Widow and Symmetra pickrates on PC, and I believe the stat sites factor pick rate percentage overall since the beginning of season 1 for competitive.
I also refuse to believe that as of season 2, that Symmetra has a winrate of 62%. At least in the higher ranks. She's a pubstomper but not much else.
I also refuse to believe that as of season 2, that Symmetra has a winrate of 62%. At least in the higher ranks. She's a pubstomper but not much else.
TheThinWhiteDuke
Member
That's a good point- I always feel terrible when Mercys follow my D.Va or Winston. I'm most likely going to kill someone away from the action, and- while I appreciate the healing/ buff- I'm not going to be able to protect you in either case. I'll try, don't get me wrong, but it will not be successful unless you are REALLY slippery. Getting a Mercy killed because she was following the "Stay with the Tank!" maxim feels super shitty.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Nerfing Ana? Now that is straight up stupid. It's still hard to get people on board when you pick her in competitive. If you want to nerf her ult charge for the sake of Esports, fine. But you have to buff her elsewhere.
Bumbletron
Member
I don't understand why there are so many in this thread afraid of the 'nerf witchhunter' bogeymen. She needs a bit of retuning, but again, most of us aren't asking for a nerf. You can also rebalance more than one hero at a time. I agree with you that there are multiple heroes in need of straight up buffs. But there are also those who need either reworkings or retunings. There is no reason Blizz can't do both at the same time.
Is Zarya talk another one of those console vs PC differences?
On PC myself, She seems fine to me as a secondary tank. She's the most well rounded, probably. I don't think she creates any unanswerable problems for enemies, while being somewhat of a counter for a few things herself.
If I changed anything about her:
(nerf)Shorten the beam length maybe. Pharah should be a decent counter to Zarya.
(nerf)More Health, Less Shield.
(Nerf)Let Winston's gun penetrate the bubble.*
(Nerf/Buff)Stop letting Armor matter if the bubble is taking the damage anyway**
(Nerf)Maybe reduce her damage while she has a bubble active, i.e. she's rerouting power to it.***
*The game seems inconsistent. I think Winston's primary, and Symmetra's primary and secondary should penetrate Reinhardt's shield, in addition to Zarya's Bubble, and Winston's Bubble.
**Currently, armor will still apply a damage reduction while you're bubbled, which doesn't make sense if it's blocking the damage anyway. Semi-related, but can you crit someone with the bubble, or does it block that as well? I can't remember right now. In a way, this is a nerf cause the bubble will block fewer shots before dropping, but it could also be a nerf, since accidental shots will power up her gun faster.
***The biggest thing about her is that if you can't burst her down faster than she'll kill you, you have to stop shooting while her bubble is up, but she'll still be shooting you anyway. You're kinda hosed either way. This way, anyone who was going to burst her down is unaffected, while giving others a chance to at least disengage instead of actively powering her up.
On PC myself, She seems fine to me as a secondary tank. She's the most well rounded, probably. I don't think she creates any unanswerable problems for enemies, while being somewhat of a counter for a few things herself.
If I changed anything about her:
(nerf)Shorten the beam length maybe. Pharah should be a decent counter to Zarya.
(nerf)More Health, Less Shield.
(Nerf)Let Winston's gun penetrate the bubble.*
(Nerf/Buff)Stop letting Armor matter if the bubble is taking the damage anyway**
(Nerf)Maybe reduce her damage while she has a bubble active, i.e. she's rerouting power to it.***
*The game seems inconsistent. I think Winston's primary, and Symmetra's primary and secondary should penetrate Reinhardt's shield, in addition to Zarya's Bubble, and Winston's Bubble.
**Currently, armor will still apply a damage reduction while you're bubbled, which doesn't make sense if it's blocking the damage anyway. Semi-related, but can you crit someone with the bubble, or does it block that as well? I can't remember right now. In a way, this is a nerf cause the bubble will block fewer shots before dropping, but it could also be a nerf, since accidental shots will power up her gun faster.
***The biggest thing about her is that if you can't burst her down faster than she'll kill you, you have to stop shooting while her bubble is up, but she'll still be shooting you anyway. You're kinda hosed either way. This way, anyone who was going to burst her down is unaffected, while giving others a chance to at least disengage instead of actively powering her up.
xaosslug
Member
Vault Dweller 111
Member
No. Your love and knowledge of the pro scene does not do well when talking about balance changes. Why should the .01% of players decide things for the rest of us? She happens to have amazing synergy when played with one other hero on a coordinated PRO team. And still only hits B-tier. Everywhere else she is well below average in pick rate, and is more in need of a buff than nerf.
Too bad it's really hard to be in that range when Zens, McCrees and Anas are all over the place.
For Ana, I think she needs very minor buff. Increase on her biotic grenade range, and maybe giver 50-75 shield instead of all 200 hp white health.
Kor of Memory
Member
Speaking of, I finally found a decent counter to her Nano boost just 30 minutes ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25XdHE6tXSk
Gif version: https://gfycat.com/SlimyImperturbableAxisdeer
Plus Pro scene is usually about PC. Ana on consoles is a mixed bag because of less precise aiming.
divisionbyzorro
Member
If I remember correctly, the game tracks either who you finish with or who you spend the most time with. Good players switch off of Symmetra if you lose the first point, so there's a bit of selection bias when it comes to her win rates (i.e., good players only finish the map with her when they're winning, and when they're losing they switch off so a different character gets the L).
Unfortunately, the best counter to Nano Boost is Sleep Dart, and having characters be their best counter doesn't necessarily make for the healthiest game.
Bumbletron
Member
Dropping someone off a cliff is great. I never regret charging nano rein off a cliff.
But it does hurt my heart to see both support ults go to waste like that
xaosslug
Member
tfw you have a team member on voice chat that CONSTANTLY says 'frack'
it's fucking hilarious how Zarya can literally swat Pharah out of the sky if a player isn't careful. xD
it's fucking hilarious how Zarya can literally swat Pharah out of the sky if a player isn't careful. xD
I mean I see her enabling some pretty insane horse shit that I know once it gets exposure is gonna be everywhere. Hopefully perception changes there.
Remember when I said Lucio was broke and it was a matter of time before he was in every solo q game past a certain point? Ana's probably next. Just because I follow the pro scene doesn't mean I'm not a good and frequent solo q player and I don't understand the game well. I see Ana as the next thing that causes an issue in general. I see 3/3 as an example of how people are going to be abusing the system, etc.
I already said I don't expect 3/3 in solo q, but if the type of strat it represents becomes more accessible to solo q players or does catch on that shows a pretty big flaw in the game. Ana on the other hand is "herp derp immortal Rein every 10 seconds while healing 160 a second from across the map." Solo q players will figure that out.
Also lol at that gif, shit is great. I love all the ways people deal with Nanoboost, it's a pretty fun thing. Just wish it wasn't up literally every minute.
Dropping someone off a cliff is great. I never regret charging nano rein off a cliff.
But it does hurt my heart to see both support ults go to waste like that
Waste? They're almost at the end of the map. The Lucio ult there definitely wasn't wasted. The Zen one probably wasn't needed but better safe than sorry, I would be very surprised if they didn't win right after that.
Kor of Memory
Member
Dropping someone off a cliff is great. I never regret charging nano rein off a cliff.
But it does hurt my heart to see both support ults go to waste like that
They didn't go to waste, and they weren't just there to counter the Rein. If you notice, the Nano'd Rein had a Sound Barrier on him already. Our Lucio just reacted to his.
We ended up winning the push, and the match.
optimus8936
Banned
Lol pros said Lucios speed boost was too much, same with Zens discord. And again, the Torb nerf was console so Blizz didn't have the pros for advice and they fucked up. How strange that they fucked up without the pros advice 🤔
I feel like you're just trolling me now.
Yeah it's hard to play Pharah when most hit-scan heroes can take her down easily. Especially Soldier and McCree.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Balance changes is where the non separated threads for PC and console matter the most. I like the shared thread but we really can't know where the other line of thinking is coming from. Blizzard should honestly have 100% different balancing for the platforms, but they have no reliable source for how the game is balanced on console so they just say "well give em what PC got and it should be good enough." Yes PC is the main platform and is what the game will be balanced on, but I happen to think that my experience on console is just as important as someone's on PC. So I will continue to futility argue the imbalances in the console game.
Berserking Guts
Member
I feel so confident with my Reinhardt now. Just played Defend Anubis. Immediately Firestrike Mei in the face, closed the distance and hammered her into dust. Zarya with Mercy starts melting me, so I dance around with my shield and then Charge Zarya right into a pillar JUST as her bubble disappears. Punish Mercy while Zarya recovers. Finish off both. Then Earth Shattered two squishies to death. Proceeded to have ONE more high like that on defence B.
We lost the game. But god damn that was exhilarating! I was inspired by a grand master twitch streamer (colossus?) to get better at Reinhardt. And as soon as I switched my buttons around, and took a few mental pointers from colossus. I feel like I got better with him over night.
We lost the game. But god damn that was exhilarating! I was inspired by a grand master twitch streamer (colossus?) to get better at Reinhardt. And as soon as I switched my buttons around, and took a few mental pointers from colossus. I feel like I got better with him over night.
divisionbyzorro
Member
tfw you have a team member on voice chat that CONSTANTLY says 'frack'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7KcpgQKo2I
wow rip
Kor of Memory
Member
AHHH!!!
30 points away from Master.
30 points away from Master.
optimus8936
Banned
If Ana got just plain buffed, I have no doubt in my mind she would be OP.
TBH I hear this stuff about getting 3 nanos per fight, and I'm just asking "why did you let the fight drag out that long in the first place?"
I think Ana is fine where she is.
If people use mics, please consider that breathing heavily into it without speaking can be super distracting. Also, don't have a loud music/TV show on in the background either. No one wants to hear that crap.
gonna make a prediction that the game will end up just MMing you with really bad teammates. are you streaming? i wanna see it in action.
AHHH!!!
30 points away from Master.
gonna make a prediction that the game will end up just MMing you with really bad teammates. are you streaming? i wanna see it in action.
Bumbletron
Member
That corner can be notoriously hard to push though, and granted I don't know what the comp is or what the ults are at, but a single Zarya ult after that could have destroyed them. I was referring more to the fact that one of the ults could have been saved without harm to ensure victory rather than stacking them. You just get more value out of it that way.
Probably because Ana was healing the enemy team for 150 hps. If anything, I'd be surprised that the other team took so long to take them out.
Kor of Memory
Member
Vault Dweller 111
Member
You definitely know how the game works, and history has sided with you on what Blizzard decides to change. But they MUST balance separately. Believe me when I tell you that a nerf to Ana would make her completely unusable on console. She is the most fun, unique, character in the game and still can't get into a damn competitive match without people bitching.
I do too. She doesn't need a buff OR a nerf.
Berserking Guts
Member
I was a little disheartened to learn that some people are using third party usb hubs to m/kb PS4 overwatch, though. How the hell do you even compete with that? Suffice it to say I'll be watching those death cams with a more critical eye now
I think what she's getting at is the pretty bad direction 3/3 takes the game. The tanks actively want to take damage. Likely actually dropping Rein shield to take the crossfire so Ana can nade/heal. She builds her ult way faster than the opposing team will by doing this and characters generally aren't bursty enough to punish them for doing this. It's pretty much exploiting the way characters gain ult charge to the max.
Kor of Memory
Member
I was a little disheartened to learn that some people are using third party usb hubs to m/kb PS4 overwatch, though. How the hell do you even compete with that? Suffice it to say I'll be watching those death cams with a more critical eye now
Came across a group of 5 of them two days ago. They were also doing the SKill Rank manipulation thing as well. :/
Edit: they were all grandmasters too.
optimus8936
Banned
You know, with the surge of 3/3, what do you guys think of making a limit to how much of each class you can have? 2 offense, 2 defense, 2 tanks, 3 supports(because two healers are needed and only allowing 2 supports would make Symm fuck things up).
Not sure if Blizz would do this, or if anyone wanted it, but it would solve the new meta that even Envy is calling the "cancer" meta. Because nerfing any of those heroes wouldn't help and nerfing Ana in general would make her worthless.
Obviously, this would only be in competitive and not QP.
Not sure if Blizz would do this, or if anyone wanted it, but it would solve the new meta that even Envy is calling the "cancer" meta. Because nerfing any of those heroes wouldn't help and nerfing Ana in general would make her worthless.
Obviously, this would only be in competitive and not QP.
The fight probably lasted awhile cause you have at least two pretty beefy tanks and Ana has the most healing in the game right now.
I can agree that console and PC need diff balancing. I just wish I knew more about console. My main concern right now is less Ana's pure strength and more the way she really enables some strategies that I think are extremely unhealthy. I have no idea how that works on console :/
Bumbletron
Member
Can we take a moment to talk about the ult charge system?
Should it charge based on personal performance, or should it be a less variant flat rate? As it is now, it enables snowballing in a huge way, and enables the already well performing players to play even better. Should someone who is already doing work in a match be given tools to further assist them? I've always hated killstreak bonuses in games anyway, I will point out. But the way the system is currently seems to be part of the underlying reason 3/3 is so insane and offense has such an advantage most of the time.
Should it charge based on personal performance, or should it be a less variant flat rate? As it is now, it enables snowballing in a huge way, and enables the already well performing players to play even better. Should someone who is already doing work in a match be given tools to further assist them? I've always hated killstreak bonuses in games anyway, I will point out. But the way the system is currently seems to be part of the underlying reason 3/3 is so insane and offense has such an advantage most of the time.
optimus8936
Banned
But at that point, you think the team would see this and go for the Ana first. If your team is allowing 3 nano boosts, you probably deserve to lose that team fight because you're not going for the most important target.
how were they doing the skill rank manipulation?
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely. Pharah is a good counter to quite a few people but just has a few too many counters on the field to do her job properly most of the time. Pharah needs a little bit more survivability either by increasing her evasion or her armor/hp split. Personally, I would love to see her move faster while in the air or be able to strafe while flying. I love Pharah but she has some very unfriendly skies right now and that is making certain heroes seem stronger than they should (Zarya and Mei I am looking at you).
I get it. I watched that NiP vs ReUnited match on Volskaya. It's also pretty boring to watch in my opinion. At least the Dive Comp was explosive. Anna's got to be changed somewhat.
I'm pretty sure we've already agreed with you that she's out of wack on the console. I'm not sure what more needs to be said.
This stuff so much. Could write essay after essay length post about why the high amount of variance and the "win more" way ult charge works is an ongoing problem. Would much prefer something that is far less variable. Doesn't need to be static and flat, but ults are up so often and things are so variable that it's easy to abuse and hard to get a grip on. Big reason why 3/3 is so good is that ult chain snowball never stops once it starts with them.
You go for Ana and Lucio is glued to her ass and boops you away, your team dies while you keep singling her out, you get hooked trying to go for her while Zarya drops a shield on her, Ana + Zen kill you anyways, etc.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
I'm not sure about PC. But I think the average nano boost assists with Ana is like 3 per game. It's really not much of a game changer. The fast charge is the only thing that makes it viable.
Bumbletron
Member
Good luck getting to an Ana through her whole team. Say you're on Hanamura and you aren't running Genji or Hanzo. How do you go for Ana first? If you even try, her team will turn on you and kill you. Then she gets attacker's spawn advantage and gets back to her team before you get back to yours. Ana is probably the hardest of the supports to focus first in a fight.
Why? They have already been proving themself better than their opponents, why should they be given even more tools with which to stomp them? If anything, the defenders should charge ult faster so they can fight on more even ground, no?
optimus8936
Banned
You could say the exact same thing about all of the healers.
It's less how impactful it is at any given moment and more the fact it's up so often. If you start an ult chain at Ana ult, her ult charges back so fast that she starts stacking that ult with more ults before your ult chain is even finished. That's the entire basis of 3/3, since Ana's ult is always up and provides a huge source of damage, you can just always have support ults up no matter what you wanna do.
Not every healer can heal you with a sniper rifle
or has a hard cc
or an instant 100 health heal that also damages enemies
finalflame
Banned
Man, the amount of ego in this thread, lol.
Now I'm not sure whether to get Zarya's golden particle cannon. At this rate, it's inevitable that she will get nerfed into oblivion. Sigh. Prove me wrong, Blizzard.
Now I'm not sure whether to get Zarya's golden particle cannon. At this rate, it's inevitable that she will get nerfed into oblivion. Sigh. Prove me wrong, Blizzard.
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