I honestly don't think Zarya is that big a problem myself. I don't even play Zarya either. I do think she might need some kind of tweaking though. not necessarily a nerf but something that doesn't make her a mandatory pick in high level play. I'm not sure how I'd tweak her myself but I do think there is a problem with the meta when so much of it revolves around a single character.
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Overwatch |OT6| Boop
- Thread starter ExMachina
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Zarya got a huge buff on consoles because of changes to auto aim. She basically melts people with ease on console while she seems to be fine on PC. I'm not very skilled and rarely play Zarya yet often get gold elims on PS4 when I decide to play her.
Kor of Memory
Member
The problem isn't Zarya, though. The problem is her natural counters aren't common enough picks. Thus, Zarya gets to run around fairly uncontested.
I'm all for this, she needs to give more than 25 shields to be honest.
optimus8936
Banned
I see Reaper and Zen in a lot of games and Roadhog in a good amount. We just need Bastion to actually come into play.
Blizzard has made effort that every hero within same role play differently. Reaper is short ranged tank buster with shotguns so for 2nd tank buster to feel different from that they very likely would make it mid-range if not long-range heavy sniper type of hero.
I wouldn't say I'm opposed to new heroes, I just don't think new heroes should be added lightly. There needs to be put a lot thought into what maybe is needed and how it can be done best. Do we really need 2nd dedicated tank buster? Is prometa of 3-3 been a thing for so long now that pro's just can't counter it without 2nd buster? Or should we just look at what makes 3-3 SO powerful instead of trying to fix it by adding heroes?
For e.g. Ana tries and does fill role of long range healer, something game didn't really have before. Yet imo her balance is somewhat off because how fast she can deal quite a bit damage and how her ult is way too fast to get for power it gives.
I guess I try to say that heroes shouldn't be added just so there is new heroes or as attempt to "fix" latest meta boom. Sooner or later game will run into issue where many heroes heavily overlap in their roles and tool sets, I want that to be later.
finalflame
Member
I don't think the game should be balanced around console's auto-aim. Nerf the auto-aim seems like the logical solution here.
Yup. Just play a hero that counters her, like reaper or Hog, who are in and of themselves good heroes to begin with.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Zarya is like the one tank that can deal with zen well. Her rise in popularity began when she's needed to clean discord off the people diving onto zen.
Zen can be strong against her but she probably has the easiest time dealing with zen next to reinhardt, but with reinhardt it's a game of which rein will drop his shield first.
Zen can be strong against her but she probably has the easiest time dealing with zen next to reinhardt, but with reinhardt it's a game of which rein will drop his shield first.
finalflame
Member
I mean, you can rest easy as there's no way Blizzard would create and balance an entire new hero just to solve a perceived game balance problem with a particular hero/strat. Pretty sure the planning and creative/technical process for new heroes goes way beyond that and is probably already set in stone at least for the next year or so, regardless of meta changes.
optimus8936
Banned
That's if the Zarya can get to the Zen.
She had 50 at one point.
That didn't work.
I still don't think the auto aim buff made THAT big of a difference. That's just me.
Kor of Memory
Member
Make it 50, but don't make it in addition to the the existing HP.
Make it so the top 50 normal HP is now shield HP.
Takes into account your sr and games played. Somebody at a lower sr bit higher averages may be lower rank and vice versa.
optimus8936
Banned
This would actually be cool to have. Make Zenyatta all shields.
No, this is my experience as well. The only difference I've seen is that it now moves correctly when aiming at jumping or flying characters. The basic aim assist doesn't seem any different.
Doesn't Zen have 200HP now?
edit: I just played him yesterday and can't remember his total HP and amount of shields from it... #shame
Kor of Memory
Member
He has 200hp total, 150 of which are shields. So if Symmetra worked as I proposed, that would mean he would have 200hp that was all shield.
optimus8936
Banned
Pretty much my experience. The only thing that's easier is hitting Pharah and Genji.
He has 50 health and 150 shields. So Kors idea would give him just plain 200 shields and no health.
I got tired of playing support in solo queue and hoping for reliable DPS so I switched to Zarya since she can carry. Practiced for an hr last night then went into comp and was going 40-60 for < 10 every game. I thought I had improved with certain characters by changing my grip but I forgot about the auto aim update. I guess it's probably that. I was melting every 200HP char (besides Tracer) in like 2 seconds flat. It did seem a little ridiculous. I hope she doesn't get nerfed though, lol. Need to climb.
I don't like the extreme performance based variance attached to power spikes that are so extreme they can end games instantly.
xaosslug
Member
or just freaking unnerf her? She was fine, before. smh
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Zarya is one of my favorite heroes. So don't think I'm just saying nerf for the sake of nerf. If you play console and don't think Zarya is insanely overpowered you're crazy. She isn't as annoying as old Genji but she is even more of a game changer. If she's at 80 or so charge she can pretty much hold off a push by herself.
I pissed someone off for the first time last night to the point where he rage quit during a comp match. He was a horrible reaper to begin with, you could see him coming every time, trying to harass our Mercy. I'd just constantly "whack-a-moe" him to death as Rein, and right before he quit, I charged him into a wall as he was about to teleport.
optimus8936
Banned
If she's able to completely hold a push by herself, the other team probably fucked up there.
She's also one of my favorite heroes and I still don't think she's OP. It all depends on your team and the enemy team. If your team is getting shot a lot, great, more energy. Oh wait, they all died, oh well.
Or, if the other team is good, they focus on shutting Zarya down.
The key to beating Zarya is to kill her quickly or kill her whole team so that she's alone and can't do much. Maybe not the whole team, but at least 2 or 3.
xaosslug
Member
nah, man. Zarya's OP. Sorry, but her nerf is coming. ¯\_(ツ
_/¯xD
finalflame
Member
Roadhog+Rein.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Who are her best counters? Roadhog, Bastion, and Reaper?
Reaper: She pretty much beats Reaper in a one on one 80% of the time.
Roadhog: Can't even kill her with his main combo. She will very often get away completely especially if she has a bubble. Annoys the hell out of Roadhog all game by shielding his hooked targets.
Bastion: Free 50 charge for every bubble that gets in front of him. She has an AOE arc shot that can totally displace/destroy Bastion. She can beat him head on if she has high charge + a bubble.
Anyone who deals with her counters so effectively is a problem. And she absolutely melts all other squishies. A fully charged Zarya pretty much sends any hero in the game running in fear. Add a new counter, nerf the auto aim, whatever. But in her current state she is ABSOLUTELY op. It's really not even a debate.
Reaper: She pretty much beats Reaper in a one on one 80% of the time.
Roadhog: Can't even kill her with his main combo. She will very often get away completely especially if she has a bubble. Annoys the hell out of Roadhog all game by shielding his hooked targets.
Bastion: Free 50 charge for every bubble that gets in front of him. She has an AOE arc shot that can totally displace/destroy Bastion. She can beat him head on if she has high charge + a bubble.
Anyone who deals with her counters so effectively is a problem. And she absolutely melts all other squishies. A fully charged Zarya pretty much sends any hero in the game running in fear. Add a new counter, nerf the auto aim, whatever. But in her current state she is ABSOLUTELY op. It's really not even a debate.
PalaceBrother
Member
Agreed 100%. If I turn a corner to discover a sentry Bastion, Mei, Reaper, Roadhog (or even another charged Zarya) I know my Zarya is screwed.
This right here....Zarya cannot push against several enemies herself.
optimus8936
Banned
It's true though. Either kill her or kill her teammates so she doesn't have as many good targets to shield.nah, man. Zarya's OP. Sorry, but her nerf is coming. ¯_(ツ
xD
I haven't heard any of the pros talking about Zarya, so Blizz ain't gonna do it because a bunch of people get teamed up with randoms or against randoms who don't know how to counter her.
Bumbletron
Member
But if the key to countering a character is just to outfrag the enemy team or kill her, is that really a counter? You could say the same thing about any other hero as well.
It's important to keep in mind that Zarya is run with a second tank for a reason, to help protect her and give her charge. How do you focus down a Zarya that's behind a Rein shield with full charge? You have to focus down the Shield first, then she gets another 200 hp of barrier. If she hasn't killed someone on your team by that point with the help of her team, then your team is outplaying the other team in general to a level where no character on their team would be a problem.
The problem isn't in Zarya herself, but her positioning in the comps being so good and synergistic. Again, I don't think she needs a nerf, but a slight rebalancing is something that should be considered.
xaosslug
Member
the only thing that successfully 'counters' a good Zarya (I've found) is you just have to do ridiculous damage from a safe distance. The risk is that she might melt your entire team w/ all the charge, but that's just a risk you have to take. If you can trust your team w/ watching your ass you can go Bastion, otherwise Junkrat/Pharah from a distance and watch your own ass + pray.
trap + mine + grenades + pray.
LOL
Zarya, a good Mei? Or pray?
trap + mine + grenades + pray.
LOL
Zarya, a good Mei? Or pray?
optimus8936
Banned
Reaper: bait shield
Roadhog: bait shield, then hook
Bastion: does enough DPS to go through shield and kill her. Ain't no way she's gonna kill him with grenade before he moves and she can't get close enough without getting shredded.
And yes, it is a debate. She's not OP.
xaosslug
Member
i'm laughing because that's true of like every character - kill them fast or kill a bunch of their team.
what pros were complaining about Mei being too weak or D.Va's DM being OP as it was? Trust: Zarya 'balancing' is coming.
Zarya's probably a bit overtuned, but I don't really think she is that OP or even a big problem. There are a lot of other things to look at right now I think.
Also I'm pretty solidly convinced single character counters are more or less dead at tournament level anyways. There are favorable match ups but that's about it. Team comps and that level of play are way too optimized to let shit like that rock.
With that being said, Ana is on some pretty nuts shit right now. She's def the current "enabler" of a lot of bullshit.
Also, to the poster above me, a good number of pros complained about D.Va's DM being busted. A lot of it was like "meta makes it so she's not that good, but trust us that thing can be a problem"
Also I'm pretty solidly convinced single character counters are more or less dead at tournament level anyways. There are favorable match ups but that's about it. Team comps and that level of play are way too optimized to let shit like that rock.
With that being said, Ana is on some pretty nuts shit right now. She's def the current "enabler" of a lot of bullshit.
Also, to the poster above me, a good number of pros complained about D.Va's DM being busted. A lot of it was like "meta makes it so she's not that good, but trust us that thing can be a problem"
optimus8936
Banned
The fact that Mei was barely being used in pro games?
When determining SR gain or loss you also have to take into account the enemy team. If you lost to a team that had a lower average SR rank than yours then you will loose more SR than when you beat a team that also has a lower average SR rank than yours. And if your personal SR rank is well above or below the average for the match then that also factors in to it.
The way Blizzard explained it is that your SR should naturally go up and down over the course of the season and may vary by as much as a couple hundred points one way or the other all other things being equal.
I sent a friend request. Matmanx1#1920.
This also works really well for a Bastion in a good position. Put a harmony orb on a Bastion being healed and dmg boosted by Mercy and that robot can do some amazing work as long as he's in a good spot.
You have to understand that this is pretty much a console only problem. She's strong on the PC but there's no way that Zarya can hold off an entire team by herself or even hold off two competent other players of any class for any length of time on the PC. Half her power comes from being able to bubble other team members and absorb charge. If she's buy herself for any length of time then she should be food for most of the cast (and is on the PC).
If she's out of wack on the console then that needs to be looked at but I don't believe she needs an overall nerf.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Imagine a 6v6, same skill level on both sides. You can pick any five heroes and both teams will have those 5. For the sixth pick I get Zarya and you get anyone but Zarya.
One hero limit, can you think of a single instance where my team wouldn't be better overall?
optimus8936
Banned
You could say the same about Lucio, Zenyatta, and Reinhardt. It's not about OPness, it's about usefulness, and Zarya plus those three heroes have a shit ton of that.
Even Lucio has a higher pick rate than Zarya so she's not even the most useful hero.
finalflame
Member
Lol, man, the salt against Zarya is so strong ALL OF A SUDDEN when nothing of note has changed in her kit since launch.
Absolutely hilarious. I'm ducking out, because there's really no arguing with people who insist she needs to be nerfed. I play Zarya and counter Zarya all day, even as D.Va I can successfully outplay/down a Zarya with the right amount of skilled coordination.
I really hope Blizzard just adjusts her console auto-aim and doesn't touch her otherwise. Literally nothing calls for this sudden outcry for her to be nerfed. Just goes to show you that the Overwatch base will always move on to the next thing to cry about once the flavor of the month hero they can't counter is nerfed.
Absolutely hilarious. I'm ducking out, because there's really no arguing with people who insist she needs to be nerfed. I play Zarya and counter Zarya all day, even as D.Va I can successfully outplay/down a Zarya with the right amount of skilled coordination.
I really hope Blizzard just adjusts her console auto-aim and doesn't touch her otherwise. Literally nothing calls for this sudden outcry for her to be nerfed. Just goes to show you that the Overwatch base will always move on to the next thing to cry about once the flavor of the month hero they can't counter is nerfed.
optimus8936
Banned
People need something to complain about.
Genjis deflect wasn't called OP until some stupid video came out waaaay after launch.
No one cared about deflect before that.
Bumbletron
Member
Right, and two of those were nerfed recently. And the only reason Rein hasn't been nerfed is because he's the only true main tank in the game, which is the reason for his importance in the meta. Zarya is an off tank who has enough utility, synergy, and power to lead one to believe she is overtuned.
I also see more people here complaining about people crying about Zarya nerfs than people who actually think Zarya needs a nerf. I'm pretty sure I've seen literally two people who have said that Zarya needs a nerf.
optimus8936
Banned
Yeah they were nerfed recently, yet they are still used almost as much as before. They are still in the top 3 for most used heroes in the latest meta report.
Nerfing Zarya won't change anything. People will still think she's OP because she's just that useful.
I was playing rein yesterday and with a D.Va as the second tank and Zarya was such a pest. She ate through my shield and if I charge at her she would use her bubble then her teammates would just finish me off.
We still though with me using Mei on defend.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
This is like the go to lazy response.
if you're on PC and don't think she's OP, great. You're probably right. She HAS changed on console though, range and auto aim equates to an enormous buff. I watched a video of mine of a pre buff 'great' Zarya game, and it looked super weak compared to what I'm used to now.
I freaking love Zarya and play her better than most people. She a ton of fun. Doesn't mean I'm blind though.
My Tracer is one of the most effective Zarya counters I've seen and I have much less trouble with her than others.
Maybe it's not always people bitching about a hero they suck with and always get killed by. Maybe I actually know what I'm talking about and have some good points.
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