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[Bumbletron]

Well then if the good players are gonna win anyways, why change the fucking system? They're gonna win no matter what, nothing will change that.

Giving bad players more ult charge won't let them play better. Them actually improving there game should be how they play better. Giving the bad players leeway will just incentivize them to continue being bad because they aren't at as big of a disadvantage anymore.

To give them more of a chance to turn things around. Maybe these 'bad' players you are talking about aren't actually bad, but due to the current system are getting snowballed due to the ult economy in that game. Wouldn't it be more fair to give them a chance to turn the tides and see how the match fares then?

But games where you are getting an Ult in 20 seconds are not good games. If you are doing this it means the enemy team is feeding you non-stop. Chances are, they shouldn't have been matched up against you, and should have their SR/MMR adjusted as needed.

The enemy team either needs to no play against players if your skill level, or they need to readjust their comp to stop you from getting Ult charge so quickly.

I agree with you to some extent, but there should probably be more they can do against an opponent once matched and in game. Diamond level players on PC get matched with masters and GM's surprisingly frequently, and it can be frustrating to be on the wrong end of one of those games.

 

[Azoor]

Just found this video. Apparently, soldier 76 predates Overwatch and was in a comic book way back in 2004.

Thought some might find this interesting.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Yeah, because if you actually are better than them, you would still win as you would still gain ult faster than them, and are 'better' than them so you should be outplaying them anyway.

Well then if the good players are gonna win anyways, why change the fucking system? They're gonna win no matter what, nothing will change that.

Giving bad players more ult charge won't let them play better. Them actually improving there game should be how they play better. Giving the bad players leeway will just incentivize them to continue being bad because they aren't at as big of a disadvantage anymore.

The problem comes from games that are close, but the "losing" team advantage kicks in, and actually changing the outcome of the game.

If the losing team gets some sort of perk, and that perk prevents the other team from winning, then the game falls apart.

No one wants to play a game that robs you of your own well earned victories. Just look at Season 1 Sudden Death to prove that.

 

[optimus8936]

To give them more of a chance to turn things around. Maybe these 'bad' players you are talking about aren't actually bad, but due to the current system are getting snowballed due to the ult economy in that game. Wouldn't it be more fair to give them a chance to turn the tides and see how the match fares then?

You act like the team with ult advantage after the first fight will win the game. Ive had plenty of matches where my team loses the first fight, then go on to win the next few.

If the other team is being snowballed, then they are probably bad players because they should've adjusted to the situation and work around it. Teams make these adjustments all the damn time.

It doesn't need to change to be made "more fair" because it's already fair enough. The team with a disadvantage can easily turn it around if they play their cards right.

 

[The Wizard]

Tfw you sleep dart and kill an unnamed gaffer playing pharah.

 

[Bumbletron]

Ive had plenty of matches where my team loses the first fight, then go on to win the next few.

As have I, but over time, assuming equal skill levels, the team with more ults will win. And when defense getting wiped essentially means a lost point and offensive ult advantage, that is a bit of a concern.

The problem comes from games that are close, but the "losing" team advantage kicks in, and actually changing the outcome of the game.

If the losing team gets some sort of perk, and that perk prevents the other team from winning, then the game falls apart.

No one wants to play a game that robs you of your own well earned victories. Just look at Season 1 Sudden Death to prove that.

That's true, and I understand that and agree to some extent. But right now, the 'winning' team advantage causes quite a few more of these close games to swing in their favor. So it's currently a bit of a problem in the opposite fashion.

 

[optimus8936]

As have I, but over time, assuming equal skill levels, the team with more ults will win. And when defense getting wiped essentially means a lost point and offensiv ult advantage, that is a bit of a concern.

If this was the case, offense would always win.

But they don't, do they?

And, teams of equal skill should be trading team fights, there shouldn't be one team rolling through every fight. And you seem to think that the ult advantage for winning a fight is severe, but you forget that the defensive team can charge their ults in fights as well by doing damage. If they ult advantage is severe, then the matches aren't of equal skill.

And you act like with ult advantage, that every ult succeeds perfectly. They can all be countered and worked around in some way.

 

[Kor of Memory]

As have I, but over time, assuming equal skill levels, the team with more ults will win. And when defense getting wiped essentially means a lost point and offensiv ult advantage, that is a bit of a concern.

Nope, the team with the better comp with win.

Pharah's Ult means shit if the enemy Roadhog hook is waiting for her.

DVa's Ult means little if the enemy Mei pop up an Icewall protecting her teammates.

McCree's Ult means little if the enemy Genji jumps into his path with a Reflect.

Winston's Ult means little if the enemy Bastion is setup in Sentry mode.

etc...

 

[Trey]

You act like the team with ult advantage after the first fight will win the game. Ive had plenty of matches where my team loses the first fight, then go on to win the next few.

If the other team is being snowballed, then they are probably bad players because they should've adjusted to the situation and work around it. Teams make these adjustments all the damn time.

It doesn't need to change to be made "more fair" because it's already fair enough. The team with a disadvantage can easily turn it around if they play their cards right.

We see snowballs in pro matches quite often. This is why 2CP maps were/are unpopular. It's simply the binary nature of overwatch in how dramatic ult advantage is. You either make ults less powerful -which I doubt any one actually wants to happen - or you make ult ratios less favorable to the winners of a team fight. Otherwise you're going to see strats and matches based solely around getting one or two picks and laying waste to an entire team almost for free in the next team fight.

 

[TheLetdown]

Say it isn't so!

 

[Berserking Guts]

It's amazing how different a proactive Reinhardt is vs a stationary one. I know I keep harping on about the obvious. But it's great having squishies try to get around my shield only to be torn up by my charge/fire strike + hammer combo. I've gotten so many kills as him this morning. It seems people just don't expect you to take the initiative as him.

 

[optimus8936]

If your team gets snowballed for the entire match, you fucked up and decided not to adjust to the situation and you deserve to lose. It's as simple as that.

This game is all about making adjustments. That's why hero switching is such a big thing.

If you decide not to make adjustments if you're losing, expect to lose a lot.

 

[Bumbletron]

If this was the case, offense would always win.

But they don't, do they?

And, teams of equal skill should be trading team fights, there shouldn't be one team rolling through every fight. And you seem to think that the ult advantage for winning a fight is severe, but you forget that the defensive team can charge their ults in fights as well by doing damage. If they ult advantage is severe, then the matches aren't of equal skill.

And you act like with ult advantage, that every ult succeeds perfectly. They can all be countered and worked around in some way.

I mean, offense win rate was like 75% on certain maps, wasn't it? It's not about rolling through every fight, but being able to out trade since you have attacker's advantage for the first point and ult advantage after the first one. By winning the first fight you have more ults available than the defense will have up. Even assuming even trades, if the offense kills that one extra guy to make the full 6 and take the point, they will have advantage.

And of course I'm assuming every ult succeeds perfectly. If you assume that both sides are playing perfectly, the one with more/more impactful ults has the advantage.

 

[Kor of Memory]

I mean, offense win rate was like 75% on certain maps, wasn't it? It's not about rolling through every fight, but being able to out trade since you have attacker's advantage for the first point and ult advantage after the first one. By winning the first fight you have more ults available than the defense will have up. Even assuming even trades, if the offense kills that one extra guy to make the full 6 and take the point, they will have advantage.

And of course I'm assuming every ult succeeds perfectly. If you assume that both sides are playing perfectly, the one with more/more impactful ults has the advantage.

Nope, the most unblanced map was Gibralter, where the attacking team was winning about 60% of the time. Blizzard adjusted payload speed, and then removed the first checkpoint, and said the win percentage for attackers was a near 50/50 split.

 

[Tovarisc]

Fucking bullshit that Mei can contest cap or payload when in indestructible and unmovable ice cube. Fun to lose because of that bs.

 

[The Wizard]

Say it isn't so!

There was also a moment where he cornered me as I was playing Mei and I walled up and walked backwards off a cliff... I swear more than a few days away from this game and any semblance of skill I had goes out the window

 

[optimus8936]

And of course I'm assuming every ult succeeds perfectly. If you assume that both sides are playing perfectly, the one with more/more impactful ults has the advantage.

No matter how good a team is, they will never have a 100% success rate with ults. Even pro games have ults that flop.

The team with ult advantage can easily be countered by shutting down their ults or bad situational awareness on the person ulting. One fuck up and all of a sudden, you lost your advantage. Having ult advantage does not mean you will win the next team fight at all. Like I said, I've had plenty of games where one team loses the first team fight and goes on to win the next even when they're at an ult disadvantage because they adjusted and played smartly.

You act like we live in a world where every player is good and everything is based on how many ults you have, and if you do think that, you're playing the game all wrong.

 

[Bumbletron]

Nope, the team with the better comp with win.

Pharah's Ult means shit if the enemy Roadhog hook is waiting for her.

DVa's Ult means little if the enemy Mei pop up an Icewall protecting her teammates.

McCree's Ult means little if the enemy Genji jumps into his path with a Reflect.

Winston's Ult means little if the enemy Bastion is setup in Sentry mode.

etc...

Right, but I figured we were assuming traditional meta comps as well. What I'm getting at is that if the teams are on equal footing in skill and comp, the team with more ults up should win. Offense gets more ults up due to the nature of the system. This leads to snowballing. That is my problem with the system. It's not that I want defense rewarded more, but offense rewarded less.

No matter how good a team is, they will never have a 100% success rate with ults. Even pro games have ults that flop.

The team with ult advantage can easily be countered by shutting down their ults or bad situational awareness on the person ulting. One fuck up and all of a sudden, you lost your advantage. Having ult advantage does not mean you will win the next team fight at all. Like I said, I've had plenty of games where one team loses the first team fight and goes on to win the next even when they're at an ult disadvantage because they adjusted and played smartly.

Of course not, but if you are going for statistics some things have to be assumed. In practice, of course you can win games where the enemy has ult advantage, but they will win more games than they lose with that. And that is the important thing to take away from it. I'm not saying ult advantage wins every game, but it does win more games than it loses.

 

[optimus8936]

Right, but I figured we were assuming traditional meta comps as well. What I'm getting at is that if the teams are on equal footing in skill and comp, the team with more ults up should win. Offense gets more ults up due to the nature of the system. This leads to snowballing. That is my problem with the system. It's not that I want defense rewarded more, but offense rewarded less.

NO. This is not true at all.

The team that plays it smarter will win, not the team with more ults. Not every game will be of exact equal skill and they sure as shit won't have an equal comp unless you're in Master/Grand master tier.

Having more ults is not an insta win button like you make it out to be.

 

[Trey]

No matter how good a team is, they will never have a 100% success rate with ults. Even pro games have ults that flop.

The team with ult advantage can easily be countered by shutting down their ults or bad situational awareness on the person ulting. One fuck up and all of a sudden, you lost your advantage. Having ult advantage does not mean you will win the next team fight at all. Like I said, I've had plenty of games where one team loses the first team fight and goes on to win the next even when they're at an ult disadvantage because they adjusted and played smartly.

You act like we live in a world where every player is good and everything is based on how many ults you have, and if you do think that, you're playing the game all wrong.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree about how significant ult advantage is; I certainly would never say ult advantage is "easily countered." At any rate, meter gain on death was but one suggestion on how to handle the emerging 3/3 meta. All of my points are with respect to pro level Overwatch play.

 

[Jellie]

There was also a moment where he cornered me as I was playing Mei and I walled up and walked backwards off a cliff... I swear more than a few days away from this game and any semblance of skill I had goes out the window

I didn't get the credit for that kill. Though I did laugh a lot. Haven't played in 5 days too.

 

[Bumbletron]

Having more ults is not an insta win button like you make it out to be.

Statistically it is.

 

[Anne]

I think the ult system is too generous, too variable, and allows ults to happen too often. Again, 3/3 just takes advantage of this super hard. Since there's really no limit on how fast ults can build, you kinda just go crazy and are always cycling through ults and building them back in under a minute no problem. That is not looking like a good game to me.

It really is just the fact that tracking ult charge as a skill is so highly variable it's very hard to play around. On top of that once ult charge stuff starts to snowball, it becomes a game ending issue thanks to how well optimized higher level teams get with it. It's not very well thought out. I think having variance and ways to build ult quicker or slower is fine and interesting and probably good, I don't think you need to change that. The amount of charge you can build and the level of variance you have to play around involving that though is kind of just stupid to me. That's not something I want attached to power spikes that outright end games.

Having more ults is not an insta win button like you make it out to be.

It kind of is actually. High level meta right now kind of hits a wall where ult economy is so in favor of one team that winning a fight against it is near impossible.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Right, but I figured we were assuming traditional meta comps as well. What I'm getting at is that if the teams are on equal footing in skill and comp, the team with more ults up should win. Offense gets more ults up due to the nature of the system. This leads to snowballing. That is my problem with the system. It's not that I want defense rewarded more, but offense rewarded less.



Of course not, but if you are going for statistics some things have to be assumed. In practice, of course you can win games where the enemy has ult advantage, but they will win more games than they lose with that. And that is the important thing to take away from it. I'm not saying ult advantage wins every game, but it does win more games than it loses.

I feel like you're moving the goalposts here, because your initial idea was to offer some sort of Ult energy to the losing side. You didn't even say anything about attackers/defenders originally.

 

[optimus8936]

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree about how significant ult advantage is; I certainly would never say ult advantage is "easily countered." At any rate, meter gain on death was but one suggestion on how to handle the emerging 3/3 meta. All of my points are with respect to pro level Overwatch play.

Why should we just change the entire game because of one meta that uses 6/22 heroes in this game? That is a shitty AF way at balancing a game.

 

[Bumbletron]

I feel like you're moving the goalposts here, because your initial idea was to offer some sort of Ult energy to the losing side. You didn't even say anything about attackers/defenders originally.

I mean, that was one of my suggestions. The goal is to provide more balance to the system to provide a more even footing, even if I've addressed it in varying ways.

Why should we just change the entire game because of one meta that uses 6/22 heroes in this game? That is a shitty AF way at balancing a game.

Because that meta, when used, breaks the game. Also because it is a problem inherent in the system from the beginning that is showing its flaws more through this meta.

 

[optimus8936]

Statistically it is.

Please, show me all these stats that you speak of. You say offense wins way more than defense, show me. You say ult advantage always wins, show me. Because you're basing most of your opinions on these stats and I see an alarmingly low amount of stats.

^^ so we should change something that has nothing to do with those other healers just to change 6 of them. That's stupid. Instead of changing the entire game to benefit the people that lose, why not change something about the damn meta itself?

 

[Anne]

Why should we just change the entire game because of one meta that uses 6/22 heroes in this game? That is a shitty AF way at balancing a game.

Every meta has this problem. 3/3 is just a way of taking the idea and pulling it out to an extreme. The ult system has always created problems, in fact it was one of the initial problems with 2CP existing as a game mode. It's still an issue in koth where once a team has a solid cap they can have map advantage as well as complete control over the ult economy. It's one thing to have the skill to control that economy, it's another when the game just hands it to you and it's very easy to make it an even bigger advantage. The tug of war it's supposed to be is more like a massive freight train that is thrown in one of 2 directions.

 

[optimus8936]

That still doesn't mean you should still be rewarded for losing. You lost the fight. Live with it and change shit up. Quit asking Blizz to benefit your loss.

That's like saying we should get 50 SR from winning, but we get 35 for losing!

 

[Trey]

Why should we just change the entire game because of one meta that uses 6/22 heroes in this game? That is a shitty AF way at balancing a game.

Like I said before, every dominant meta centralizes on abusing the ult system in some way. If the other team runs a certain comp, YOU have to run it to because you can't afford them to ult before or more than your team.

That's what this entire discussion stems from. Ult advantage and snowballing.

 

[TheLetdown]

There was also a moment where he cornered me as I was playing Mei and I walled up and walked backwards off a cliff... I swear more than a few days away from this game and any semblance of skill I had goes out the window

I know that feeling. I didn't play all weekend.

I'd call it a busy weekend because it really felt that way, but looking back, I don't really have shit to show for it.

Should've just spent it playing Overwatch.

Every meta has this problem. 3/3 is just a way of taking the idea and pulling it out to an extreme. The ult system has always created problems, in fact it was one of the initial problems with 2CP existing as a game mode. It's still an issue in koth where once a team has a solid cap they can have map advantage as well as complete control over the ult economy. It's one thing to have the skill to control that economy, it's another when the game just hands it to you and it's very easy to make it an even bigger advantage. The tug of war it's supposed to be is more like a massive freight train that is thrown in one of 2 directions.

In your opinion, do you think 3/3 will pose a problem to the "upper tier" pro teams?


The thing about 3/3 is that, while I certainly see the point that it's boring to watch, it was a blast to play when we tried it out. It feels like the match has no downtime.

 

[Anne]

That still doesn't mean you should still be rewarded for losing. You lost the fight. Live with it and change shit up. Quit asking Blizz to benefit your loss.

That's like saying we should get 50 SR from winning, but we get 35 for losing!

I'm not saying to give the people on the losing end anything. What I am saying is that the people on the winning end of this system are probably getting too much.

In your opinion, do you think 3/3 will pose a problem to the "upper tier" pro teams?


The thing about 3/3 is that, while I certainly see the point that it's boring to watch, it was a blast to play when we tried it out. It feels like the match has no downtime.

I think on maps where 3/3 doesn't have some inherent mobility problem it will be an issue. If it ever gets played to a point of overcoming those problems, or a variation of it arises that can still do the central part of the strategy, it will just be an issue in general. Like, what do you do to stop the ult chain from happening once it starts? How do you kill that team and keep an ult economy going over it? Somebody will have to answer that soon.

This is all my opinion btw, I see pro opinions on 3/3 and how it works but the ult stuff is all my conjecture based on what I know about the game. The meta is otherwise pretty okay right now, but this is just sticking out to me as bleeeeehhhhhhhhhh why is this a thing.

 

[Palmer_v1]

The ways Ults work currently is part of why I'm vaguely annoyed by deathball gameplay. I prefer skirmishes and more back and forth, but most games seem to turn into a steamroll once the first fight is over. Like 75% of my games in platinum territory could just be called after the first 2 minutes are over.

 

[Kor of Memory]

You guys are just trying to turn the game into something it's not at this point.

I appreciate you not enjoying certain aspects of the game, but at this point we're basically having a conversation equivalent to "Why isn't Halo more like Call of Duty?"

 

[matmanx1]

Your Overwatch did a video about the PC vs Console differences. They tried it out over the free weekand and posted some thoughts about their experience. It's nothing in-depth or super detailed. I guess it's interesting to hear what they thought console felt like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R6QEzkGUXU

They did a good job talking about what is the biggest difference which is the control speed. It's so easy to mouse flick on the PC that it speeds the whole game up. Shots are easier to land and therefore damage and death happens at a higher rate. Whenever I watch a console feed I feel like I am watching a slower version of the game (which is not really the case) because the cursor movement and the aiming happens at a slower rate.

How to cap point A on Eichenwalde, by MOONMOON

Maybe it is because I played so much of Eichenwalde on the test server but I don't think Point A is difficult. D.Va, Pharah, Reaper, Genji, Tracer, Hanzo or anyone else with some fast movement or vertical ability can easily get past the choke and get to Point A. At that point the choke weakens as the Defenders have to respond and there's your opening.

 

[Bumbletron]

Please, show me all these stats that you speak of. You say offense wins way more than defense, show me. You say ult advantage always wins, show me. Because you're basing most of your opinions on these stats and I see an alarmingly low amount of stats.

Blizzard said that offense won payload maps 75% of the time, no?

And are you actually arguing that in a fight with even match ups and skill, that a team with a death blossom up is not at a statistical advantage against a team without any ults?

You guys are just trying to turn the game into something it's not at this point.

I appreciate you not enjoying certain aspects of the game, but at this point we're basically having a conversation equivalent to "Why isn't Halo more like Call of Duty?"

Are we though? Because all I'm asking for is for ult charge provided by personal performance to be lessened a bit. I'm not saying ults shouldn't exist, just that the variance is a bit much.

 

[Plesiades]

Speaking of Ultimatess... Did the Mobawatch Brawl remove the extra percentage you gain for doing damage?

I'd be interesting to see how the game works when you fight around fixed cooldowns...

 

[Kor of Memory]

Blizzard said that offense won payload maps 75% of the time, no?

NO! They didn't! And I already corrected you the first time you used this information.

 

[optimus8936]

Blizzard said that offense won payload maps 75% of the time, no?

And are you actually arguing that in a fight with even match ups and skill, that a team with a death blossom up is not at a statistical advantage against a team without any ults?

Of course they are at a disadvantage. That doesn't mean they can't work around it. Hear a Reaper TP? Spread out and see where he's hiding and kill him once he comes down. You just simply have to play smart and pick all the right cards and you can easily come out of that fight.

And what Kor said about your "stats". You still haven't showed any physical evidence for these stats, you're just saying what you think and putting supposed stats behind them.

 

[Bumbletron]

NO! They didn't! And I already corrected you the first time you used this information.

I'll take that back then. Didn't see your post.

Of course they are at a disadvantage. That doesn't mean they can't work around it. Hear a Reaper TP? Spread out and see where he's hiding and kill him once he comes down. You just simply have to play smart and pick all the right cards and you can easily come out of that fight.

And what Kor said about your "stats". You still haven't showed any physical evidence for these stats, you're just saying what you think and putting supposed stats behind them.

And if the reaper doesn't tp and sticks with his team in the deathball? You can't know if he has it or not, since the rate of charge is variable. He's almost guaranteed at least one pick with that since you won't know it's coming, and that is probably all it needs to provide for a team at higher levels to win that fight. This part is undeniably an advantage and something still supported. I will continue to stick with this.

 

[Trey]

You guys are just trying to turn the game into something it's not at this point.

I appreciate you not enjoying certain aspects of the game, but at this point we're basically having a conversation equivalent to "Why isn't Halo more like Call of Duty?"

It's just discussion. We're talking about the state of the game, and possible ways to address perceived issues. It's all constructive.

 

[yeehamuffins]

...yeah, I think I'm done with competitive.

 

[optimus8936]

You guys are just trying to turn the game into something it's not at this point.

I appreciate you not enjoying certain aspects of the game, but at this point we're basically having a conversation equivalent to "Why isn't Halo more like Call of Duty?"

Seriously. I'm still baffled that we were actually comparing this game to fucking fighting games. Literally nothing alike, gameplay-wise.

 

[Kor of Memory]

...yeah, I think I'm done with competitive.

Ouch. Did you change anything about your playstyle recently?

 

[Berserking Guts]

So what the fuck is the custom when a Mei drops that fucking atom bomb-like ult of hers on KOTH? It encapsulates the whole damn point since her buff. Like, what do you do if you're a Tank for example and you hear her tell-tale sign to get the fuck out of dodge? You have like a second to move your fat ass to the nearest door and it's always too late.

Is the point to take the hit? Should I be predicting how far into the game she'll have her ult? Should I be counting on team composition that someone in my solo game has a counter ult? Because otherwise I just don't understand why her ult is such a stand out. Even Zaryas Graviton Surge + someone else's ult combo isn't as annoying and shoulder slumping as Mei and her fucking pizza killer.

 

[Bearthgar]

I feel so confident with my Reinhardt now. Just played Defend Anubis. Immediately Firestrike Mei in the face, closed the distance and hammered her into dust. Zarya with Mercy starts melting me, so I dance around with my shield and then Charge Zarya right into a pillar JUST as her bubble disappears. Punish Mercy while Zarya recovers. Finish off both. Then Earth Shattered two squishies to death. Proceeded to have ONE more high like that on defence B.

We lost the game. But god damn that was exhilarating! I was inspired by a grand master twitch streamer (colossus?) to get better at Reinhardt. And as soon as I switched my buttons around, and took a few mental pointers from colossus. I feel like I got better with him over night.

Do you have a link? What key binding changes did you make?

 

[Bumbletron]

Seriously. I'm still baffled that we were actually comparing this game to fucking fighting games. Literally nothing alike, gameplay-wise.

Except, as I said: Tier lists, Ultimate/Ultimate Meter, Character Match-Ups/Counters, Competitive ranked systems, and abilities.

 

[finalflame]

The weekend was kind to me towards the end. Graph doesn't show my season high of 2843, but meh.

 

[Trey]

Seriously. I'm still baffled that we were actually comparing this game to fucking fighting games. Literally nothing alike, gameplay-wise.

They're much more alike than you are reckoning with. And it was only a comparison in one respect, which was meter gain. And overwatch already has fighting games' meter parity design concept, we were simply promoting that it be more tuned to lessen the advantage a team that wins a fight has.

 

[Kor of Memory]

So what the fuck is the custom when a Mei drops that fucking atom bomb-like ult of hers on KOTH? It encapsulates the whole damn point since her buff. Like, what do you do if you're a Tank for example and you hear her tell-tale sign to get the fuck out of dodge? You have like a second to move your fat ass to the nearest door and it's always too late.

Is the point to take the hit? Should I be predicting how far into the game she'll have her ult? Should I be counting on team composition that someone in my solo game has a counter ult? Because otherwise I just don't understand why her ult is such a stand out. Even Zaryas Graviton Surge + someone else's ult combo isn't as annoying and shoulder slumping as Mei and her fucking pizza killer.

I'm assuming you mean counter?

Well, if you have a Lucio, he should be switching to Speed Boost to help you get away, as well as himself.

If you have a Zarya, her Bubble prevents the freeze. So can get herself and another teammate out.

Any DPS character that has a quick movement ability should be able to get: Tracer, Genji, Pharah, and 76.

Mercy should be able to fly to a teammate that's not inside the circle.

But really, Mei's vocal alert is almost a full second before her Ult actually starts. You should be using this time to predict where she's at and/or where she is throwing it, and getting away from the likely chokepoint it's been tossed into.