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[TheLetdown]

Seriously. I'm still baffled that we were actually comparing this game to fucking fighting games. Literally nothing alike, gameplay-wise.

Reinhardt:

Checkmate.

So what the fuck is the custom when a Mei drops that fucking atom bomb-like ult of hers on KOTH? It encapsulates the whole damn point since her buff. Like, what do you do if you're a Tank for example and you hear her tell-tale sign to get the fuck out of dodge? You have like a second to move your fat ass to the nearest door and it's always too late.

Is the point to take the hit? Should I be predicting how far into the game she'll have her ult? Should I be counting on team composition that someone in my solo game has a counter ult? Because otherwise I just don't understand why her ult is such a stand out. Even Zaryas Graviton Surge + someone else's ult combo isn't as annoying and shoulder slumping as Mei and her fucking pizza killer.

Transcendence is the best case, in my experience. Or a good Zarya that can bubble herself and then you or a more important target.

Otherwise, having the whole team fight on point isn't ideal in KOTH once you have it. Branching just past (but not overextending too far) gives you more breathing room. Especially when they have a Mei. Could help mitigate the effect of her ult.

 

[yeehamuffins]

Ouch. Did you change anything about your playstyle recently?

Honestly, I can't think of anything. Have been trying to diversify from my usual picks of either Zarya or healing, but I honestly never feel that comfortable being put into the role of the team DPS. And as a result, if the folks who snap pick the DPS roles aren't doing well, then there's not much I can do to help them salvage it. Plus my random solo queue teammates seem to be masters of the "let's trickle in one or two at a time, rather than wait up for the rest of the team and maybe make an actual attempt at this."

I dunno. There's some games where I just hit the key to pick a new character, stare at all the options and think to myself, "Nobody I pick is going to make a damn bit of difference." Maybe I should just go back to QP where the stress levels are less, and try to practice heroes I don't normally play. I dunno.

 

[Berserking Guts]

Do you have a link? What key binding changes did you make?

I just switched my fire strike to L1, Charge to L3, Jump to L2, and shield to R1. That way all of Reinhardts moves are easily accessible. I tried firestrike to R3 but it turns out R3 is a lousy button to aim with when you're pressing it. Also, I set my sensitivity to h70 v45.

Collosus is easy to find too. He's usually top 2 on PS4 twitch.

 

[optimus8936]

Again

Fighting game: 1v1 that completely relies on your skill as a player

Overwatch: 6v6 that completely relies on your ability to work as a team.

Big difference

And again, one is a fighting game, the other is a shooter. If you're gonna compare games, at least have them be the same damn genre of game.

 

[Farewell]

I'm assuming you mean counter?

Well, if you have a Lucio, he should be switching to Speed Boost to help you get away, as well as himself.

If you have a Zarya, her Bubble prevents the freeze. So can get herself and another teammate out.

Any DPS character that has a quick movement ability should be able to get: Tracer, Genji, Pharah, and 76.

Mercy should be able to fly to a teammate that's not inside the circle.

But really, Mei's vocal alert is almost a full second before her Ult actually starts. You should be using this time to predict where she's at and/or where she is throwing it, and getting away from the likely chokepoint it's been tossed into.

Really? Didn't know that, thank you.

 

[Bumbletron]

Reinhardt:

Checkmate.

Also, I've wanted Winston to get 'Gief's Double Lariat for so long now. He's almost there already.

Again

Fighting game: 1v1 that completely relies on your skill as a player

Overwatch: 6v6 that completely relies on your ability to work as a team.

Big difference

Of course they're different. That doesn't mean that they don't have similarities. That's the whole point of comparisons. To draw attention to the similar features of two objects.

 

[finalflame]

Really? Didn't know that, thank you.

Yah, it resets/cleanses it completely, so the best tactic is to let yourself/teammate move until the last second when they are close to freezing then use it. I use this to 1v1 Meis who get in my face all the time. At the very least I can get away, at best if their popsicle is down I melt them.

Also, Overwatch is nothing like fighting games and trying to balance it with fighting game mechanics is not gonna work. It's like the MOBA people coming in here and saying you need to "learn to carry". It's really impossible to assimilate it to other genres in a way that is constructive, as it is entirely unique, even if mechanics seem similar on the surface.

 

[xaosslug]

How to cap point A on Eichenwalde, by MOONMOON

first things first: have a dumb enemy team, basically. >__>

 

[optimus8936]

Yah, it resets/cleanses it completely, so the best tactic is to let yourself/teammate move until the last second when they are close to freezing then use it. I use this to 1v1 Meis who get in my face all the time. At the very least I can get away, at best if their popsicle is down I melt them.

Also, Overwatch is nothing like fighting games and trying to balance it with fighting game mechanics is not gonna work. It's like the MOBA people coming in here and saying you need to "learn to carry". It's really impossible to assimilate it to other genres in a way that is constructive, as it is entirely unique, even if mechanics seem similar on the surface.

Thank you.

You can't compare games because of a couple similar mechanics, you can only compare if the core gameplay is similar and in this case, they are far from similar.

Just because it works in fighting games, doesn't mean it will work in shooters, like what you said about MOBAs.

 

[Bearthgar]

I just switched my fire strike to L1, Charge to L3, Jump to L2, and shield to R1. That way all of Reinhardts moves are easily accessible. I tried firestrike to R3 but it turns out R3 is a lousy button to aim with when you're pressing it. Also, I set my sensitivity to h70 v45.

Collosus is easy to find too. He's usually top 2 on PS4 twitch.

Cool- thanks for the tip. I've been nervous to change the keys, but that does make a lot of sense. My sensitivity is just about the same.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

Anyone online and looking to group up for some comp? I'm a platinum 2266 Pharah / Mei / Rein / DVa / Winston / Lucio / Symmettra

Send a Friend Request

 

[Bumbletron]

It's really impossible to assimilate it to other genres in a way that is constructive, as it is entirely unique, even if mechanics seem similar on the surface.

Disagreed. The mechanics are similar in enough ways to be able to make a valid comparison, imo. The mechanic in question is the ult meter, which charges much more based on damage inflicted and little, if any, charge based on damage received. It may be worth looking at something a bit closer to the meter charge in a fighting game where the amounts for the two are a bit closer than they currently are.

You can't compare games because of a couple similar mechanics, you can only compare if the core gameplay is similar and in this case, they are far from similar.

You can, though. Just like you can compare China and America. Sure, you have things that contrast as well, but that doesn't make the comparisons that one can make less apt.

 

[optimus8936]

Disagreed. The mechanics are similar in enough ways to be able to make a valid comparison, imo. The mechanic in question is the ult meter, which charges much more based on damage inflicted and little, if any, charge based on damage received. It may be worth looking at something a bit closer to the meter charge in a fighting game where the amounts for the two are a bit closer than they currently are.

Except the CORE GAMEPLAY is totally different.

In fighting games, you don't have to think about charging a supports ult.

You can't compare two games that are completely different genres and play completely different. In fighting games, you don't have to worry about working with a team, for example.

 

[Trey]

Again

Fighting game: 1v1 that completely relies on your skill as a player

Overwatch: 6v6 that completely relies on your ability to work as a team.

Big difference

And they both have meter economy being the fundamental driving force of the moment to moment gameplay in a field of characters with direct counters to one another. Big similarity.

Pointing out how they're different genres isn't the silver bullet you seem to think it is. It's reductive and ignores how important comparative reasoning can be in problem solving.

If you're fine with the current meta, that's your prerogative. Based on the past two days of discussion with you, you have a conservative view on the sort of balance Overwatch needs. That's fine.

But it's not a counter-argument to a proposed solution to perceived issues with the meta. Because even if we remove the comparison to fighting games, we are still left with the fundamental discussion being that of ult advantage. Fighting games or no fighting games, that's what the discussion is centered around. And while true that it's not a 1:1 comparison with respect to tuning, the cogent response to ult parity is not "this is a shooter tho," since ult parity of some form already exists as a function in overwatch.

In fighting games, you don't have to think about charging a supports ult.

You have to worry about your opponent's meter all the time.

 

[finalflame]

Disagreed. The mechanics are similar in enough ways to be able to make a valid comparison, imo. The mechanic in question is the ult meter, which charges much more based on damage inflicted and little, if any, charge based on damage received. It may be worth looking at something a bit closer to the meter charge in a fighting game where the amounts for the two are a bit closer than they currently are.

No. Their similarities end in that they are meters that fill based on something you do in the game. The dynamics around utilizing ults in a 6v6 team fight scenario vs. one on one in a fighting game completely changes how the meter's behavior will impact the game. In a fighting game, you are always one on one with another player and the balancing is straightforward and bi-directional. In a game where there are 12 heroes on the screen in much more complex scenarios, you cannot use the same system to balance.

Why are we even talking about changing ult charges, anyways? The system works fine. What people don't understand is that peeking around and engaging in non-critical scenarios just lets the enemy team build ult. If you'll notice pro teams, they only engage in full team fights and handle the game as multiple separate team fights as opposed to one long ongoing fight, which is what most lower tier players do. Just look at people being absolutely retarded peeking into the opening into Anubis point B all the time instead of waiting to regroup and push. Same goes for most other scenarios.

If the discussion is based on the 3/3 comp and how it "snowballs" ults, the answer is to buff/adjust characters so that the comp can be successfully countered, not change how the ult meter works, which has way further reaching impact than just accounting for a specific comp that's currently making its way into the meta and largely still unproven whether or not it can be countered/has staying power.

 

[optimus8936]

No pointing out that they're different genres is a viable argument because the two games PLAY COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Overwatch is a team game.

It's like comparing an apple to an orange. Yes, they're both fruits, but they taste different. Fighting games and Overwatch are both video games and have a couple similar mechanics, yes, but they play so differently, it's a night and day difference.

And your saying that they are similar with the tiers and ranking system. K? Like every competitive game that ever existed? Hearthstone has this, should we compare Hearthstone to Overwatch?

 

[Bumbletron]

No pointing out that they're different genres is a viable argument because the two games PLAY COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Overwatch is a team game. It's like comparing.

It's like comparing an apple to an orange. Yes, they're both fruits, but they taste different. Fighting games and Overwatch are both video games and have a couple similar mechanics, yes, but they play so differently, it's a night and day difference.

And your saying that they are similar with the tiers and ranking system. K? Like every competitive game that ever existed? Hearthstone has this, should we compare Hearthstone to Overwatch?

The core gameplay is different but this mechanic is the same. That is the comparison. I'm really having trouble taking you seriously in your argument right now, because I've tried to explain this multiple times and every time you are giving me the equivalent of 'these other things are different'. That isn't the point. The point is that this one part is similar. If I wanted to be asinine, I'd talk about how I can jump in and punch someone as Winston, combo as McCree, or do a cross up as genji/tracer, as that is enough of a comparison to a fighting game in those circumstances.

You are missing the forest for the trees a bit here. We are comparing the similar systems within the games, not the games as a whole.

 

[finalflame]

The core gameplay is different but this mechanic is the same. That is the comparison. I'm really having trouble taking you seriously in your argument right now, because I've tried to explain this multiple times and every time you are giving me the equivalent of 'these other things are different'. That isn't the point. The point is that this one part is similar. If I wanted to be asinine, I'd talk about how I can jump in and punch someone as Winston or do a cross up as genji/tracer, as that is enough of a comparison to a fighting game in those circumstances.

You are missing the forest for the trees a bit here. We are comparing the similar systems within the games, not the games as a whole.

You can't take the system out of the context of the game. It does not exist in isolation. You cannot do that just for the sake of comparing it to fighting games because you want to, because the overall impact of the change has to take the context into account. How can you not see this?

 

[optimus8936]

Yes the system is the same, but it affects the two games differently.

Because you seem to keep ignoring the fact that Overwatch is a team game, not a 1v1 fighting game, so this system affects the two differently.

 

[Kor of Memory]

You can't take the system out of the context of the game. It does not exist in isolation. You cannot do that just for the sake of comparing it to fighting games because you want to, because the overall impact of the change has to take the context into account. How can you not see this?

Yes the system is the same, but it affects the two games differently.

Because you seem to keep ignoring the fact that Overwatch is a team game, not a 1v1 fighting game, so this system affects the two differently.

Just let it go guys. Neither side is getting through to the other. Pack it up, Move on.

 

[Bumbletron]

You can't take the system out of the context of the game. It does not exist in isolation. You cannot do that just for the sake of comparing it to fighting games because you want to, because the overall impact of the change has to take the context into account. How can you not see this?

Okay, given the context and the overall impact of the change: How would providing a bit more balanced ult charge to both parties, let's say 75/25 negatively impact the game? Because the way I see it, it balances things out when put in the context of the game.

Just let it go guys. Neither side is getting through to the other. Pack it up, Move on.

Yeah, probably, lol. Thanks for the correction on that misinformation, though! I was pretty certain I had seen that in one of the dev videos or blue text, but it must have been my imagination.

 

[LiK]

Just let it go and move on.

 

[optimus8936]

Just let it go and move on.

Probably.

But seriously, if you like that system so bad, go play a fighting game and quit trying to bring that over to this game.

Last note I'm making on this.

 

[finalflame]

Okay, given the context and the overall impact of the change: How would providing a bit more balanced ult charge to both parties, let's say 75/25 negatively impact the game? Because the way I see it, it balances things out when put in the context of the game.

I think ult charging is perfectly balanced. The more damage/healing you do, the more ult you charge. Different heroes can have different charge rates, both passive and active, based on how Blizzard finds it necessary to balance them. I don't think you need to add another factor (taking damage) to ult charges, and add an entire new aspect you now need to balance.

But yah, let's agree to disagree on this one.

 

[LiK]

Probably.

But seriously, if you like that system so bad, go play a fighting game and quit trying to bring that over to this game.

Last note I'm making on this.

i was making a reference to AA6. i wasn't being serious.

 

[optimus8936]

i was making a reference to AA6. i wasn't being serious.

RIP

 

[Bumbletron]

I think ult charging is perfectly balanced. The more damage/healing you do, the more ult you charge. Different heroes can have different charge rates, both passive and active, based on how Blizzard finds it necessary to balance them. I don't think you need to add another factor (taking damage) to ult charges, and add an entire new aspect you now need to balance.

But yah, let's agree to disagree on this one.

Yeah, I agree to disagree.

Can we at least agree that Rein charging his ult with damage done leads to a lot of really bad dps rein players?

 

[xaosslug]

i feel like more often than not I get put on teams where peeps just don't seem to care/know how pivotal an enemy teleporter can be and I'm just alone searching for it... hmm.

 

[Trey]

You can't take the system out of the context of the game. It does not exist in isolation. You cannot do that just for the sake of comparing it to fighting games because you want to, because the overall impact of the change has to take the context into account. How can you not see this?

We can drop the fighting games angle completely because our respective views on how comparable the two genres are is irrelevant to the actual point.

We are faced with a meta that specifically abuses the ult system in order to almost guarantee ult advantage for the first team fight, which sets up the entire rest of the match. It has become so prominent so quickly, a decent amount of pro teams have called it a cancer to the meta of overwatch. This is because the nature of the game of overwatch centers around ults, and it is a measure of the haves and have nots.

The prominent meta before was the same way. And the meta before that. And the "OP" character before that. Snowballing is such a force as to almost make an entire game mode unviable for competitive play. Blizzard has acknowledged this.

Perhaps one way of addressing this situation is more strict ult parity between teams. Because even evenly matched teams have been railroaded because of one untimely death or two leading to basically ceding an entire match, which is not so much a tug of war as one side having a slingshot in a tank war.

 

[killdatninja]

Okay, given the context and the overall impact of the change: How would providing a bit more balanced ult charge to both parties, let's say 75/25 negatively impact the game? Because the way I see it, it balances things out when put in the context of the game.

I like where you're going with this, we'll take out ultimates so everything is now balanced. New brawl proposal: No ultimate's allowed.

Spoiler

Yes, this would be boring and wouldn't solve any balance issues. I just want to test it!

Or if I can give up some of my Ult meter (like 50%) to do like some get out of jail free card or maybe instant cooldown reduction, that would be cool to try out. I'm sure it wouldn't be balanced but cool to try.

 

[finalflame]

Yeah, I agree to disagree.

Can we at least agree that Rein charging his ult with damage done leads to a lot of really bad dps rein players, at least?

Oh god yes. I was playing with a rather agreeable Rein player who was actually on comms and a cool dude, but he kept charging into the enemy team and getting obliterated. Like, you're tanky, but you're not THAT tanky.

With that said, a bit of coordination over comms and we got him to stop doing that and hold the push line with us. Rein is very much an opportunist with his DPS; you need to watch for good Firestrikes and punish when the enemy team is overextending too close/CC'd/etc. At least iMO, I don't play Rein much, but this is what I see from good players.

 

[TimeEffect]

What do you guys think of a Winston buff? I want to play more of him, but he seems very weak. I thought he would be a massive HP character who has weak attack (thereby allowing him to be the perfect distraction character), but he seems like he has pretty weak attack, and doesnt have armour or shields to become a big damage sponge.

His ultimate seems very gimmicky and limited. wouldnt you be better off using a hero who could kill off enemies more reliably, instead of swatting them away?

Is he particularly useful on maps like the Greece map?

It would be neat if his electricity damage amplified if you attacked multiple characters.


As far as buffs go:

-Winston
-Genji maybe?
-Ana?
-Symmetra
-Torbjorn (2 turrets?)
-Widowmaker (she seems completely useless for the team)
-Bastion (buff his ultimate)

Dont really find anyone too OP.

 

[Bumbletron]

Oh god yes. I was playing with a rather agreeable Rein player who was actually on comms and a cool dude, but he kept charging into the enemy team and getting obliterated. Like, you're tanky, but you're not THAT tanky.

With that said, a bit of coordination over comms and we got him to stop doing that and hold the push line with us. Rein is very much an opportunist with his DPS; you need to watch for good Firestrikes and punish when the enemy team is overextending too close/CC'd/etc. At least iMO, I don't play Rein much, but this is what I see from good players.

Yeah, Rein is a lot harder to play well than most people give him credit for. But I really don't like having his only way of building ult before the full team fight be fire strike, because it leads to getting picked off by Hanzo 9/10 times.

 

[Kor of Memory]

What do you guys think of a Winston buff? I want to play more of him, but he seems very weak. I thought he would be a massive HP character who has weak attack (thereby allowing him to be the perfect distraction character), but he seems like he has pretty weak attack, and doesnt have armour or shields to become a big damage sponge.

His ultimate seems very gimmicky and limited. wouldnt you be better off using a hero who could kill off enemies more reliably, instead of swatting them away?

Is he particularly useful on maps like the Greece map?

It would be neat if his electricity damage amplified if you attacked multiple characters.

Winston's strongest feature is his Bubble, and the utility it provides. Winston's bubble act's a line of sight barrier for the enemy team. This means If an Enemy Lucio is healing on one side of the bubble, and an Enemy Zarya is on the other, The Zarya isn't getting the Enemy Lucio heals. Same with Zenyatta and Lucio's Ult.

That said, I feel like Winston could either use more health, or some of his health should be armor.

 

[optimus8936]

What do you guys think of a Winston buff? I want to play more of him, but he seems very weak. I thought he would be a massive HP character who has weak attack (thereby allowing him to be the perfect distraction character), but he seems like he has pretty weak attack, and doesnt have armour or shields to become a big damage sponge.

His ultimate seems very gimmicky and limited. wouldnt you be better off using a hero who could kill off enemies more reliably, instead of swatting them away?

Is he particularly useful on maps like the Greece map?

It would be neat if his electricity damage amplified if you attacked multiple characters.


As far as buffs go:

-Winston
-Genji maybe?
-Ana?
-Symmetra
-Torbjorn (2 turrets?)
-Widowmaker (she seems completely useless for the team)
-Bastion (buff his ultimate)

Dont really find anyone too OP.

Winston does not need a buff. You just need to know how to play him. You jump in, pop shield, kill one or two squishies, back out and get health, repeat.

A buff to Winston would probably make him OP.

His ult is meant to disrupt the other team, not kill people. The only reliable way to kill people would be to knock them off the map. But you need to remember that your jump cooldown is only 2 seconds in your ult, so you should be constantly jumping around and whacking everyone in all different directions and only try and kill the squishies.

 

[NeoRaider]

I wish they can somehow buff Symmetra to be less vulnerable, because she has to be very close to the enemy when using her beam weapon. Maybe little more health/shield? When 2 enemies are attacking you and there are no turrets close to them you are done so fast, because you can only attack and focus on one enemy.

 

[TimeEffect]

Winston's strongest feature is his Bubble, and the utility it provides. Winston's bubble act's a line of sight barrier for the enemy team. This means If an Enemy Lucio is healing on one side of the bubble, and an Enemy Zarya is on the other, The Zarya isn't getting the Enemy Lucio heals. Same with Zenyatta and Lucio's Ult.

That said, I feel like Winston could either use more health, or some of his health should be armor.

Ah, neat! I think he should have armour. He's pure health, and it doesnt seem like it suits him. His gun is very weak, is it not? Im too afraid to pick him because I dont want people getting mad at me, but I really want to try him more

 

[Data West]

I think Bastion's ult would be a lot better if the animation was gone or the animation speed was like tripled.

Ah, neat! I think he should have armour. He's pure health, and it doesnt seem like it suits him. His gun is very weak, is it not? Im too afraid to pick him because I dont want people getting mad at me, but I really want to try him more

Winston is basically
harass
get out
come back
harass

Never underestimate how strong the bubble is and remember your leap is on a short CD. You can very easily get out if needed.
If you see Reaper, do not engage. Reaper will melt your face off, Reaper to Winston is like the hardest counter in the game.
Your ult heals you back to full. Always keep that in mind.

 

[Bumbletron]

Winston's strongest feature is his Bubble, and the utility it provides. Winston's bubble act's a line of sight barrier for the enemy team. This means If an Enemy Lucio is healing on one side of the bubble, and an Enemy Zarya is on the other, The Zarya isn't getting the Enemy Lucio heals. Same with Zenyatta and Lucio's Ult.

That said, I feel like Winston could either use more health, or some of his health should be armor.

I think he has 75-100 armor on his pool already, but I feel like since he's an instigator perhaps converting an additional 75 health to shields would help in that very tiny way. Plus he's a space gorilla, and something needs to protect him from that radiation . Anything else would make him too strong though, tbh

 

[optimus8936]

Ah, neat! I think he should have armour. He's pure health, and it doesnt seem like it suits him. His gun is very weak, is it not? Im too afraid to pick him because I dont want people getting mad at me, but I really want to try him more

1. He already has 100 armor, plus his bubble shield

2. His weapon is meant to kill squishies. His jump also deals 50 damage, so you need to jump on a squishy, then they will be weakened and an easy kill. Generally, Winston should win most 1v1s against anyone with 200 or less health.

3. Also his gun is great against grouped up people because it can track on to up to 3 targets.

He doesn't need a buff, he's perfectly fine, but it's hard to figure out what he's meant to do. Even the pros have said that the sound of a Winston buff scares them. And Blizz themselves came out on the forums and said they think Winston is fine.

Trust me. I used to be in the same situation as you. I thought Winston was hot garbage. But once I started learning him, I realized he was a fantastic character.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Ah, neat! I think he should have armour. He's pure health, and it doesnt seem like it suits him. His gun is very weak, is it not? Im too afraid to pick him because I dont want people getting mad at me, but I really want to try him more

Winston is supposed to attack the back lines.

The first thing you need to know is that your Rocket Jump actually deals damage. 50, IIRC. And yes, while the Tesla is weak, it requires no aiming, and can actually hit mulitple targets at once.

The idea is you should be jumping at a healer or another weak back row character to damage them, drop your bubble so you don't get absolutely destroyed, then shocking them to death, and then jump away. Hopefully, while you've spent time in the back row, you've forced some of the enemy team to turn around, and thus expose their backsides to your DPSers.

As with all tanks, he works best with a supporting cast.

 

[LurkerPrime]

Mei clicked. She's a-mei-zing, so I bought the a-mei-zing VO to go with her skills.

That feeling when you chase down someone, freeze them as they're running away, and then deliver an execution-headshot is like nothing else.


And re: Winston, his power is in his ability to disrupt. Even the most evasive enemies have absolutely no defense against his Tesla Cannon. Coupled with his mobility, it means he can reach the soft, squishy center of an enemy's team and attack it until, A) there's nothing left, B) he needs to leap away to heal, or C) he needs to leap away to chase someone else. Support units and snipers are absolutely defenseless against him, while they're some of the most deadly enemies on a team (and difficult to reach) normally.

Winston: it's in the name.

 

[TimeEffect]

OK Ill try out Winston again.

I still think Symmetra and Torbjorn need buffs badly on console. Symmetra's teleporters may have been too game breaking in beta, but I wish her turrets didnt have such a big cooldown.

Id like it if Torbjorn could maybe place 2 turrets, though that would be ridiculous in casual.

I wish they could balance comp and casual differently. 2 Turrets for Torbjorn could probably be great for him on console competitive, but disastrous in casual.

Maybe he should just be able to upgrade his turret a little faster.

Ana comes off as really weak to me, as does Widowmaker. More like useless. Hanzo already gives good visibility with his radar, and Widowmaker's doesnt seem to last anywhere near as long for it to be worthwhile.

I feel like Bastion has a really good ability, but his ultimate feels a little weak. Still, I dont know why people say he sucks, because he seems to do very well on console

 

[Papercuts]

Ah, neat! I think he should have armour. He's pure health, and it doesnt seem like it suits him. His gun is very weak, is it not? Im too afraid to pick him because I dont want people getting mad at me, but I really want to try him more

Winson is really solid, you just need to know how to engage people with him. His gun is weak but doesn't need to be aimed so it's a constant damage that a lot of people can't handle, plus his leap actually does 50 damage if you land on someone. You want to use his shield and stay near the edges so you can weave in and out and make it so the enemies bullets are always hitting a shield side and not you, but when it gets bad you can leap back to the team and wait for the cooldown of shield to come back.

His ult's biggest strength is the instant heal up to 1000. Imagine a Winston that leaps in on the support, kills one and then gets focused by the team. They get him to 50hp, then he ults, jumps around and knocks people around. They get him to 100 hp and he leaps away and survives. In this case he singlehandedly absorbed focus, and around 1400 in damage that the rest of your team can take advantage of.

I find he can get countered harder than most people in the game though. He can't do shit to Bastion, and a Reaper/Roadhog combo are generally enough for me to swap out since they're too hard to avoid.

 

[optimus8936]

Ana is the same as Winston, where she's hard to figure out. The only difference is that she requires aim. You just got to practice a bunch with her and she'll get really good.

 

[Data West]

toblerone just needs a faster hammer swing

 

[TimeEffect]

Ana is the same as Winston, where she's hard to figure out. The only difference is that she requires aim. You just got to practice a bunch with her and she'll get really good.

So she's considered pretty useful? I heard the tier list put Ana, Symmetra, and Winston on the bottom.

Console also has heavy aim assist, which makes me think Ana would be very hard to use.

 

[Bumbletron]

toblerone just needs a faster hammer swing

Yeah, you can't build turrets fast enough now.

Or hammer people to death

 

[Trey]

I wish they can somehow buff Symmetra to be less vulnerable, because she has to be very close to the enemy when using her beam weapon. Maybe little more health/shield? When 2 enemies are attacking you and there are no turrets close to them you are done so fast, because you can only attack and focus on one enemy.

I've long since arrived at the point where I don't think anything can be done about symmetra.

But to this proposal, she's not supposed to win 1v2s. She's not supposed to win fair 1v1s either. She's all area denial, which is strong at chokepoints, and basically nowhere else in the game. She has no answers to being dived, and that's by design. She's pure support in the truest sense - if you get targeted by any competent DPS, you're supposed to lose.

Symmetra makes her bank by catching out of position players unaware, and giving her team an advantage with shields, orbs and sentries. This can be used to great effect at the lower ranks, but it's not really viable when the enemy can aim well.

 

[optimus8936]

So she's considered pretty useful? I heard the tier list put Ana, Symmetra, and Winston on the bottom.

Console also has heavy aim assist, which makes me think Ana would be very hard to use.

What tier list is this? Winston and Ana are both fairly high in the meta report. Symm, yes, however, is low.

Also, I would think AA would help Ana considering she is a sniper.