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Overwatch |OT8| Our love will last Pharah-ver

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D

duckroll

Member
Mawile said:
I know the feel...bought 40$+ worth of lootboxes and still no D.Va skin.

Been leveling up each day to try to get it but it's getting nearer and nearer till the end of the event.
Click to expand...

I bought 50 lootboxes and got everything. Maybe they gave me pity luck because I don't play the game as much these days and I know I don't won't be getting many free ones?! :(
 
A

Anne

Member
jviggy43 said:
What level are the nerf roadhog crowd at? Just as a point of reference for how your team/you might be handling him. I can see why at disorganized lower level of play he'd seem op.
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I'm GM and these are more or less the exact changes I would have given him. Make his gun more skillful and less random, and enough CD to hook to make playing around it make more sense in risk/reward, and have more skill to killing things post hook like before.

Dumping them that far out is pretty interesting. He's still gonna kill most any squishy, but it does take him a bit further out of the tank busting niche.
 
H

Hazardous Metal

Member
duckroll said:
I bought 50 lootboxes and got everything. Maybe they gave me pity luck because I don't play the game as much these days and I know I don't won't be getting many free ones?! :(
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I've been lucky enough to plop down $40 USD every event and get everything. Even then I'm sitting on 14000 Gold so if there is something I can't get I'm good to go. :p
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Hazardous Metal said:
I don't have to "face it" just because I disagree with you. His job on the battlefield is to get picks and outside of his six second hook he is effectively a sitting duck to a team that understands how to counter him (and there are MANY ways to counter him with both abilities and positioning). The people that get killed by him the most are the ones that tunnel vision on what they're doing and don't check their flanks. Even when someone does get picked by him, that Roadhog is now totally open for an attack. Just because he requires actual teamwork to take down effectively and efficiently doesn't mean he's bullshit or broken. I'm not saying you said those exact words but the notion is ridiculous all the same.
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He's not really a sitting duck though. Like, unless you're one of those hogs that goes all the way behind the enemy team and so far away that you can't easily get into your supports' sightlines. Which is a dumb way to play. Scrapgun still does a ton of damage, alt fire still a good zoning tool and he's still the best counter to rein in the game because your shields just do not last. His midgame is honestly pretty strong even without hook.
 
A

Anne

Member
I-hate-u said:
Also even with the cooldown nerf, I still think Roadhog's potential to change an even fight to 6v5 is too powerful. It should punish the bad ones though that miss their hooks, like me.
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Well, his drawbacks are pretty real now. The major problem wasn't just hook getting a free pick, the problem was the CD was so low he could

A) Guess hook without much punishment
B) if he whiffed in a 1v1 he could literally hit E and have hook up again at more or less the same health

With that being gone and him stepping less on Reaper's toes, things should work a lot better. Making his gun more consistent is a decent trade off for it too. At higher elo that gun is actually pretty good, so now maybe lower level Roadhogs will be more inclined to learn how to use it rather than going for lucky M2.
 
A

Anne

Member
Antiwhippy said:
20% reduction is a pretty big deal.
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It is and it isn't. Roadhogs have gotten pretty good with the thing, and 20% will make it hurt more but won't change all that much with how they are performing I'm willing to bet. I think there is a perception at lower levels that his gun is bad which is absurdly not true, so they are trying to push players more towards learning to use it well. Right now it feels "random" to people that don't use it a lot.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Anne said:
It is and it isn't. Roadhogs have gotten pretty good with the thing, and 20% will make it hurt more but won't change all that much with how they are performing I'm willing to bet. I think there is a perception at lower levels that his gun is bad which is absurdly not true, so they are trying to push players more towards learning to use it well. Right now it feels "random" to people that don't use it a lot.
Click to expand...

But doesn't it affect the spread of his alt fire too?
 
A

Anne

Member
Antiwhippy said:
But doesn't it affect the spread of his alt fire too?
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Yup. I'm already pretty consistent with it, all this does is make it so you can poke a bit further with it or go for more consistent body damage. It's a good buff that definitely makes it better, but again it's just helping people achieve something he was already doing before.

The hook nerf as is will drastically change how he's being played right now as is, so giving him that to try and control space a bit better without hook is fine by me and just keeps him relatively threatening.

To put it into perspective with the CD change, let's say a team takes 20 seconds to get space, confirm a fight, and fully engage. That's a reasonable amount of time right to about when a fight will start swinging. In that span of time, Roadhog gets 3 hooks on live. He has to whiff 3 times in order to not turn that fight, which is pretty absurd. He can whiff, confirm a kill with the next one, and still have it up to CC an ult. In any order too. Now that number is down to 2 in that same span of time, and the more time you think about the worse it gets. His overall time influencing space in a match is way down. You cannot go for guess or wild hooks anymore because there is enough down time for a team to be properly punished.

Since hook can't have that influence, putting more of a skill element and kill potential on his gun makes sense. He should still control some space with the thing. It also does mean if he does whiff hook on like a dive ro something, M1 is a bit better. I don't mind him being good at his job, I just want the risk/reward to make sense and this seems to be the right direction.

Hazardous Metal said:
I don't have to "face it" just because I disagree with you. His job on the battlefield is to get picks and outside of his six second hook he is effectively a sitting duck to a team that understands how to counter him (and there are MANY ways to counter him with both abilities and positioning). The people that get killed by him the most are the ones that tunnel vision on what they're doing and don't check their flanks. Even when someone does get picked by him, that Roadhog is now totally open for an attack. Just because he requires actual teamwork to take down effectively and efficiently doesn't mean he's bullshit or broken. I'm not saying you said those exact words but the notion is ridiculous all the same.
Click to expand...

This isn't really all that true. Creating safe hooks is p easy and is done very often, and the way it works to peek Roadhog at the moment is just too tight in regards to the CD. During 6 seconds you have to re-peek him which will take at least 2 or so, and that leaves 4 seconds to kill him while he still has a reasonably threatening gun and a heal that buys him another couple seconds. Roadhog can be punished for straight hooking people, but via better angles and his team protecting him it's not extremely common. What is more common is that people have to commit to fights or they lose (you can't poke fight Roadhog and defense has an inherent advantage here) and then hook gets to have more influence. Right now hook whiffing early or even mid fight is kinda whatever since the time it takes to punish is higher than the CD, so it's pretty common to see people go for hard dives to try and get past the CD, then turn to the Roadhog once he's more committed. The whole point of the nerf is that players have to commit harder to punishing him than he has to commit to hooking them if this illustrates the point. It should be more even with an 8s CD.
 
M

Mawile

Banned
duckroll said:
I bought 50 lootboxes and got everything. Maybe they gave me pity luck because I don't play the game as much these days and I know I don't won't be getting many free ones?! :(
Click to expand...

Haha. Well, least someone's getting em.

Maybe playing less causes the RNG to boost?!
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
This was the first event I didn't spend any moola on since my drops were so good. 8)
Though I still want Zen's legendary, but I have enough funny money to get it if I don't get it in a drop before the event ends.
 
A

Anne

Member
Also Idk if you know this, but you can headshot Winston while being behind him or to his side where his head isn't even visible. I'm assuming that's specifically what they want to fix, which is a good buff.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Anne said:
Yup. I'm already pretty consistent with it, all this does is make it so you can poke a bit further with it or go for more consistent body damage. It's a good buff that definitely makes it better, but again it's just helping people achieve something he was already doing before.

The hook nerf as is will drastically change how he's being played right now as is, so giving him that to try and control space a bit better without hook is fine by me and just keeps him relatively threatening.

To put it into perspective with the CD change, let's say a team takes 20 seconds to get space, confirm a fight, and fully engage. That's a reasonable amount of time right to about when a fight will start swinging. In that span of time, Roadhog gets 3 hooks on live. He has to whiff 3 times in order to not turn that fight, which is pretty absurd. He can whiff, confirm a kill with the next one, and still have it up to CC an ult. In any order too. Now that number is down to 2 in that same span of time, and the more time you think about the worse it gets. His overall time influencing space in a match is way down. You cannot go for guess or wild hooks anymore because there is enough down time for a team to be properly punished.

Since hook can't have that influence, putting more of a skill element and kill potential on his gun makes sense. He should still control some space with the thing. It also does mean if he does whiff hook on like a dive ro something, M1 is a bit better. I don't mind him being good at his job, I just want the risk/reward to make sense and this seems to be the right direction.



This isn't really all that true. Creating safe hooks is p easy and is done very often, and the way it works to peek Roadhog at the moment is just too tight in regards to the CD. During 6 seconds you have to re-peek him which will take at least 2 or so, and that leaves 4 seconds to kill him while he still has a reasonably threatening gun and a heal that buys him another couple seconds. Roadhog can be punished for straight hooking people, but via better angles and his team protecting him it's not extremely common. What is more common is that people have to commit to fights or they lose (you can't poke fight Roadhog and defense has an inherent advantage here) and then hook gets to have more influence. Right now hook whiffing early or even mid fight is kinda whatever since the time it takes to punish is higher than the CD, so it's pretty common to see people go for hard dives to try and get past the CD, then turn to the Roadhog once he's more committed. The whole point of the nerf is that players have to commit harder to punishing him than he has to commit to hooking them if this illustrates the point. It should be more even with an 8s CD.
Click to expand...

Hmm, yeah, I've been calling for an increase in hook cd for awhile now, but I've been thinking more inline with 10s rather than 8s, but they way you've laid out how engagements will work with the new cd makes sense.
 
H

Hazardous Metal

Member
I would like to state that for the record I have no issue with the PTR changes to Roadhog. I myself have only started using him within the past month. I just never found him to be overpowered due to the super intermittent nature of his DPS.
 
A

Anne

Member
Also I talked about CD trading recently right? CD trading with hook is almost always in Hog's favor due to the low CD on it. Now it's a lot closer to Zarya bubble, Genji deflect, etc so trading a CD for it is more fair. Where before Roadhog would be happy with any trade, now he has to think about it. Again, it's not that he is a super broke monster, it's just more bringing him in line with everybody else.

Hazardous Metal said:
I would like to state that for the record I have no issue with the PTR changes to Roadhog. I myself have only started using him within the past month. I just never found him to be overpowered due to the super intermittent nature of his DPS.
Click to expand...

I mean that's totally fine, I'm just explaining things from my perspective. From where I'm sitting, his damage isn't intermittent and his main CD is up more often than basically any other hero in the game. Hope that explained some things.
 
A

Anne

Member
Jellie said:
Wait Winston got buffed?
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Made his crit hurtbox smaller so you (presumably) can't headshot while his head isn't visible anymore. That's all, a QoL buff that helps him out a bit. Makes turning and spacing from good Winstons more reliable to avoid crit damage. Also makes shotguns deal a bit less damage to his face I'd assume?

Edit: Also, I'ma be real about the Roadhog thing real quick. Hooks happening at high level are not hype without a lot of extra circumstances. People getting gibbed by M2 wasn't hype because it seems "random". Even if they aren't chasing the truest of balance ever, they are trying to make the character more engaging to play against and to watch. Hooks will be a lot more hype knowing it's fair against Zarya now. Clutch hooks where he holds the CD to deal with a nanoboost will be more hype than they are already. A hog that has the skill to M2 consistently will be more well regarded. That kinda just is conjecture, but it is the general vibe I get from the community regarding the thing.
 
J

Jellie

Member
Anne said:
Made his crit hurtbox smaller so you (presumably) can't headshot while his head isn't visible anymore. That's all, a QoL buff that helps him out a bit. Makes turning and spacing from good Winstons more reliable to avoid crit damage. Also makes shotguns deal a bit less damage to his face I'd assume?
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Doesn't seem too bad then. Won't really affect me much since ana doesn't headshot and people tend to ignore support getting dived at my level even if you sleep the Winston. Heck yesterday I slept one and the person I was with straight up left me to deal with him.

Will it make him better against reaper then if shotguns do less?
 
A

Anne

Member
Jellie said:
Will it make him better against reaper then if shotguns do less?
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Realistically, no. I think the most noticeable difference will be against Tracer, but it's not some massive thing. Just eases some suffering.

antitrop said:
Harbleu left Complexity. He's finishing out his contract, but actively looking for other teams.
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Good. His squad isn't bad and I doubt anybody atm is really cheating, but the TJO brothers can't get away from their past. Former cheaters left and right are having trouble getting big boy contracts. The notable exception is Nanohana aka Flow3r. Even he ate a lot of shit for him getting a VACation in pub CSGO when he was 13.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Roadhog nerfs seem fine to me, currently the Zarya stuff is especially fucky which that seems to mainly change and the CD is the easiest thing to hit so it lines up more with other abilities.

Tighter spread on his shooting is interesting though, might actually have a big impact.
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
Anne said:
Well, his drawbacks are pretty real now. The major problem wasn't just hook getting a free pick, the problem was the CD was so low he could

A) Guess hook without much punishment
B) if he whiffed in a 1v1 he could literally hit E and have hook up again at more or less the same health

With that being gone and him stepping less on Reaper's toes, things should work a lot better. Making his gun more consistent is a decent trade off for it too. At higher elo that gun is actually pretty good, so now maybe lower level Roadhogs will be more inclined to learn how to use it rather than going for lucky M2.
Click to expand...

Stolen from reddit, but that cool down nerf actually changes so much the dynamics of team fights where Genji's chances in surviving, and Zarya's protection for teammates against his hooks are that much better now.
 
M

Mendrox

Member
Mawile said:
I know the feel...bought 40$+ worth of lootboxes and still no D.Va skin.

Been leveling up each day to try to get it but it's getting nearer and nearer till the end of the event.
Click to expand...

You should have enough coins by now? Just buy it with coins the day before like me. Grinded over 50 boxes and got the Mei Skin, Symmetra and Bastion, also Dva emote and Tracer highlight intro. Still way less than from events before... And I want that Tracer skin too hmmm
 
GraveRobberX

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Holy Shit at that telepathic McCree throw, that perfect Flashbang on that recalled Tracer on Nepal Temple

Damn EnVyUs
 
A

Anne

Member
Monte stole my insight :<

The second they dumped those ults they lost a lot of power, so Taimou going for picks to keep a fight going is crazy smart.
 
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