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Overwatch |OT8| Our love will last Pharah-ver

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A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Ugh, i knew i shouldn't have played today. Not performing optimally because i have a cough, and somehow today is the day where i get my allotment of leavers.

Tilt and sickness is a bad mix.
 
DevilDog

DevilDog

Member
Usually when I'm sick I'm on a whole other level of not giving a fuck.

So... soldier or Mcree? With so many squishes I feel like Mcree is a better choice now.
 
H

holysan

Member
Grief.exe said:
I tilted a Pharah in a game yesterday by hooking her all game on Oasis.

At the end of the game she was saying she couldn't wait for the hook nerf. It's going to be easier to hook Pharahs post-patch 😂😂😂😂😂
Click to expand...

Pharah is one of the hardest targets to hook imo. She just needs to fly up whenever you look at her. Was she bad?
 
A

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
I'd rather have a middling Mercy than a middling Ana though.

Whenever someone picks Ana, I'm never sure if the player actually has the aim/positioning to heal me, or if he's playing Ana like Widowmaker.

At least with Mercy, I know I'll get healed sometimes because that's all she does.

I also still feel like Mercy is probably a safer pick if I don't trust my team. Leave Mercy alone and she can usually at least pick someone to fly to. Bad positioning doesn't mean much to Mercy as long as she can get a lock on whoever she's trying to heal.

In similar situations, Ana gets left in the dust by a bad team, or gets all of her shots bodyblocked by teammates jumping in front of her.
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
As someone who plays a ton of Rein, I say Ana is my preferred healer. Even if the Ana is bad, if she pockets solely the tanks, which shouldn't be that hard, she is still more useful than Mercy. Don't get me started on good Anas because they can easily carry.

That's not to say Mercy is obsolete. Imo, if a team is running Symmetra, Mercy should be the solo healer unless you're in a pro level in which case a high level Ana can outperform her.
 
A

Azoor

Member
I-hate-u said:
As someone who plays a ton of Rein, I say Ana is my preferred healer. Even if the Ana is bad, if she pockets solely the tanks, which shouldn't be that hard, she is still more useful than Mercy. Don't get me started on good Anas because they can easily carry.

That's not to say Mercy is obsolete. Imo, if a team is running Symmetra, Mercy should be the solo healer unless you're in a pro level in which case a high level Ana can outperform her.
Click to expand...

They're both pretty great, it's just that Ana has a lot more utility that helps the team than Mercy. Like her sleep dart and health bomb.
 
NeoRaider

NeoRaider

Member
I just binded Ability 1 (LSHIFT) to Page Forward button (Next to Melee button). I think that this will help me with Ana's sleep dart and Hog's hook. Also some other heroes too.

I am stupid for not doing this before.

Btw. I am becoming much better with Ana and had a match today where i slept charged Rein twice and saved 2 allies and also stopped him before using his Ulti while being boosted by their Ana.

#feelsgood
 
I

ISOM

Member
Azoor said:
They're both pretty great, it's just that Ana has a lot more utility that helps the team than Mercy. Like her sleep dart and health bomb.
Click to expand...

And Ana can go from dps to healing seamlessly. But Mercy with her gun out never looks right.
 
C

caesar

Banned
DevilDog said:
Usually when I'm sick I'm on a whole other level of not giving a fuck.

So... soldier or Mcree? With so many squishes I feel like Mcree is a better choice now.
Click to expand...

What game is this I'd like to play it!!!??

i feel bad whenever mercy is on my team

guarantees:

rez in the middle of enemy and get wiped

die with rez

'i dont play ana'

feeds genji
 
H

holysan

Member
So if nerfing Ana won't solve the tank problem, do you think that blizz should or will make a 2 tank limit? They did it with 1 hero limit after iirc ESL introduced this to their matches, since viewers got bored of 6 DVAs or Tracers running on the point to stall. I can imagine that even now someone would rather see TVIQ or Shadowburn wrecking with Genji than a DVA holding down E or god tier Cree players like Taimou and Mendo being forced to play Roadhog.

caesar said:
What game is this I'd like to play it!!!??

i feel bad whenever mercy is on my team

guarantees:

rez in the middle of enemy and get wiped

die with rez

'i dont play ana'

feeds genji
Click to expand...

don't forget: "No one protects the supports Q_Q"
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
holysan said:
So if nerfing Ana won’t solve the tank problem, do you think that blizz should or will make a 2 tank limit? They did it with 1 hero limit after iirc ESL introduced this to their matches, since viewers got bored of 6 DVAs or Tracers running on the point to stall. I can imagine that even now someone would rather see TVIQ or Shadowburn wrecking with Genji than a DVA holding down E or god tier Cree players like Taimou and Mendo being forced to play Roadhog.
Click to expand...

Hell no. That stifles any sort of future creativity from the playerbase. I remember when the tanks meta just started to surface and break the 2/2/2 staple comp with NiP/NRG running 3 tanks/3 supports. It blew me away.
 
S

Skii

Member
holysan said:
So if nerfing Ana won’t solve the tank problem, do you think that blizz should or will make a 2 tank limit? They did it with 1 hero limit after iirc ESL introduced this to their matches, since viewers got bored of 6 DVAs or Tracers running on the point to stall. I can imagine that even now someone would rather see TVIQ or Shadowburn wrecking with Genji than a DVA holding down E or god tier Cree players like Taimou and Mendo being forced to play Roadhog.
Click to expand...

No, you should be able to play any composition you want. They need to keep balancing Ana if the current nerfs don't stop the tank meta. But they are being very slow about it which is very concerning. We might get these nerfs a couple of weeks before this season ends. They've let this current meta sit with us for 6 weeks now which is pretty bad on their part.
 
A

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
I-hate-u said:
As someone who plays a ton of Rein, I say Ana is my preferred healer. Even if the Ana is bad, if she pockets solely the tanks, which shouldn't be that hard, she is still more useful than Mercy. Don't get me started on good Anas because they can easily carry.

That's not to say Mercy is obsolete. Imo, if a team is running Symmetra, Mercy should be the solo healer unless you're in a pro level in which case a high level Ana can outperform her.
Click to expand...
It's true that Ana is just more capable than Mercy, but there have been so many cases where I'm playing Ana and trying to heal a Reinhardt that goes in, only to get all my shots bodyblocked by half my team getting in front of me, or that random ass Hanzo jumping in front of me right when I need to land my shots. Then the tank dies and yells at me.

And in cases where I try to get a better vantage point to shoot, I usually get flanked and killed, or left behind and killed.

Mercy gets around that problem because you can lock her beam on the tank taking point, and then you don't have to worry about people crowding in front of you. Positioning doesn't matter as much for Mercy because she can fly everywhere and isn't prone to bodyblocking.

I wish I was better at Ana. I try to play her more because I know she's more capable - I really like how she can damage and heal seamlessly), but I find I'm still more effective on Mercy because I just can't trust team coordination.
 
Paltheos

Paltheos

Member
Skii said:
No, you should be able to play any composition you want. They need to keep balancing Ana if the current nerfs don't stop the tank meta. But they are being very slow about it which is very concerning. We might get these nerfs a couple of weeks before this season ends. They've let this current meta sit with us for 6 weeks now which is pretty bad on their part.
Click to expand...

I don't see the problem with that. The game's not outright unfair (for the most part), just limiting in viable hero pool. Let it sit for a little while and take time retweaking the game. Keeps it fresh. It also gives the community plenty of time with the game - Let them see what they can come up with and see how much the player base enjoys it.
 
S

Skii

Member
Paltheos said:
I don't see the problem with that. The game's not outright unfair (for the most part), just limiting in viable hero pool. Let it sit for a little while and take time retweaking the game. Keeps it fresh. It also gives the community plenty of time with the game - Let them see what they can come up with and see how much the player base enjoys it.
Click to expand...

It's definitely doesn't feel fair when you're not running Ana. As a tank player, it's extremely noticeable. And I'm all for letting a patch settle for a good 4 weeks before making adjustments but this is a special case. The fact that your premium tank buster was actually the worst DPS to run into the tank meta was the clearest possible sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with the balance of the game.
 
C

caesar

Banned
Akuun said:
It's true that Ana is just more capable than Mercy, but there have been so many cases where I'm playing Ana and trying to heal a Reinhardt that goes in, only to get all my shots bodyblocked by half my team getting in front of me, or that random ass Hanzo jumping in front of me right when I need to land my shots. Then the tank dies and yells at me.

And in cases where I try to get a better vantage point to shoot, I usually get flanked and killed, or left behind and killed.

Mercy gets around that problem because you can lock her beam on the tank taking point, and then you don't have to worry about people crowding in front of you. Positioning doesn't matter as much for Mercy because she can fly everywhere and isn't prone to bodyblocking.

I wish I was better at Ana. I try to play her more because I know she's more capable - I really like how she can damage and heal seamlessly), but I find I'm still more effective on Mercy because I just can't trust team coordination.
Click to expand...

Getting flanked happens to all healers. I've never really had a problem with bodyblocking so its probably your positioning tbh.

Maybe you are too far back or too close.
 
C

caesar

Banned
Skii said:
It's definitely doesn't feel fair when you're not running Ana. As a tank player, it's extremely noticeable. And I'm all for letting a patch settle for a good 4 weeks before making adjustments but this is a special case. The fact that your premium tank buster was actually the worst DPS to run into the tank meta was the clearest possible sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with the balance of the game.
Click to expand...

Agreed but I'm glad they're taking it slow this time. They don't want to overbuff Sombra or nerf Ana to the point of being useless. Blizzard has a habit of doing that.
 
N

Nimby

Banned
Had a match on Ilios where I played 2 rounds as Zen and had 5 gold medals. Then I switch to Mercy because our Ana would rather be Pharah and I still had the gold medal for elims when we won.
 
A

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
caesar said:
Getting flanked happens to all healers. I've never really had a problem with bodyblocking so its probably your positioning tbh.

Maybe you are too far back or too close.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it could by my own positioning.

I do have trouble positioning with Ana. If I take a sniping position, the other sniper bodyblocks me or my team rushes forward too fast and leaves me behind, ignoring flankers the whole time. If I try to follow close by, I'm too close and other people body block me.

I try to look up pro players for how they position Ana, but I either can't get to those spots in time or my teams in QP/competitive don't group up in the same positions, so it doesn't make much sense to stay in the same spots.

That, plus I have trouble killing flankers 1v1 like everyone says that Ana can, so that's frustrating too.

Mercy generally has a lower skill floor so it's a little easier to not die all the time if I'm not sure what I'm doing. I kind of treat Mercy as training wheels for Ana sometimes, but I know it's not an accurate comparison. I also generally feel awful about not being able to play Ana well because I can often see what a good Ana could do in the same situation as me, but I don't have the skill to pull it off.

Watching a Reaper or Pharah ult near me and missing that flick sleep dart feels like shit.
 
S

Skii

Member
caesar said:
Agreed but I'm glad they're taking it slow this time. They don't want to overbuff Sombra or nerf Ana to the point of being useless. Blizzard has a habit of doing that.
Click to expand...

I don't mind them being slow with the rest but Ana should've had her first nerf 2 weeks ago imo. We should be now discussing if the new nerf is enough rather than wondering what effect it'll have.

Akuun said:
Yeah, it could by my own positioning.

I do have trouble positioning with Ana. If I take a sniping position, the other sniper bodyblocks me or my team rushes forward too fast and leaves me behind, ignoring flankers the whole time. If I try to follow close by, I'm too close and other people body block me.

I try to look up pro players for how they position Ana, but I either can't get to those spots in time or my teams in QP/competitive don't group up in the same positions, so it doesn't make much sense to stay in the same spots.

That, plus I have trouble killing flankers 1v1 like everyone says that Ana can, so that's frustrating too.

Mercy generally has a lower skill floor so it's a little easier to not die all the time if I'm not sure what I'm doing. I kind of treat Mercy as training wheels for Ana sometimes, but I know it's not an accurate comparison. I also generally feel awful about not being able to play Ana well because I can often see what a good Ana could do in the same situation as me, but I don't have the skill to pull it off.

Watching a Reaper or Pharah ult near me and missing that flick sleep dart feels like shit.
Click to expand...

If you use your scope, you shouldnt be getting body blocked too much. It's generally fine to stay near your tanks but you can also benefit from being a lot further back on certain maps. But you definitely have to get better at 1v1ing flankers. You have far better tools than any other healer at dealing with flankers so you just need to practice some more. You should even be protecting your off healer as well because your abilities are that good.
 
A

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
Yeah, practice makes perfect I guess.

I do try to scope for anything that's not a very close range shot to take advantage of the hitscan that you get with scoped shots.

At longer ranges it's less of a problem unless you have a Hanzo strafing in your face, but at close range, people really have never had a teammate step in front of you right as you're trying to hit someone at range? Or have teammates simply stand/juke in front of you, crowding your vision when you're trying to keep an eye on someone?

I know I should stand off to the side to try to avoid that as much as possible, but sometimes it's not really feasible on maps where you have to go through certain chokes.
 
A

antitrop

Member
holysan said:
Zen is such a poor excuse for a support sometimes. It's best visible when someone who exclusively plays dps picks him.
Click to expand...

Zen and Ana are the goto picks for someone that doesn't really want to play Support, but still wants to fill the role. All those fucking Widowmaker Anas, man.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
B-Dex said:
I'm tired of D.Va.

Delete her from the game. Along with junkrat.
Click to expand...
I will only accept this if Tracer, Genji, and Sombra are deleted to preserve balance in the universe.

Also is Junkrat even...used much? I thought he was still in the very rare phase.

I've truly become a hipster D.Va player. I mained her from the very beginning, she's one of the most fun characters for me, and I had a bad feeling that once she became buffed and actually viewed as good, she'd either be hated or nerfed into oblivion. :p
 
A

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
Blizzard said:
I will only accept this if Tracer, Genji, and Sombra are deleted to preserve balance in the universe.

Also is Junkrat even...used much? I thought he was still in the very rare phase.

I've truly become a hipster D.Va player. I mained her from the very beginning, she's one of the most fun characters for me, and I had a bad feeling that once she became buffed and actually viewed as good, she'd either be hated or nerfed into oblivion. :p
Click to expand...
Junkrat is sometimes good at lower leagues. Some teams just bathe in grenade spam and then they can never push because they're always dead or at critical health.
 
L

LucidMomentum

Member
Akuun said:
Junkrat is sometimes good at lower leagues. Some teams just bathe in grenade spam and then they can never push because they're always dead or at critical health.
Click to expand...

Especially if they have flankers and you're good with your traps.

Love hitting someone with a mine as they try to jump in, only to see them now in front of our DPS :D

But of course, if I pick Junkrat at the start people will already tilt.

Had a guy spend all of his time asking for two healers when we had a Symm on Anubis and she had shield generator up in about a minute.

They didn't touch the first point.
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
Akuun said:
It's true that Ana is just more capable than Mercy, but there have been so many cases where I'm playing Ana and trying to heal a Reinhardt that goes in, only to get all my shots bodyblocked by half my team getting in front of me, or that random ass Hanzo jumping in front of me right when I need to land my shots. Then the tank dies and yells at me.

And in cases where I try to get a better vantage point to shoot, I usually get flanked and killed, or left behind and killed.

Mercy gets around that problem because you can lock her beam on the tank taking point, and then you don't have to worry about people crowding in front of you. Positioning doesn't matter as much for Mercy because she can fly everywhere and isn't prone to bodyblocking.

I wish I was better at Ana. I try to play her more because I know she's more capable - I really like how she can damage and heal seamlessly), but I find I'm still more effective on Mercy because I just can't trust team coordination.
Click to expand...

That's actually a really good point you bring up. Doesn't help that the hitbox is so generous that someone close to the person you're healing gets healed instead.
 
Paltheos

Paltheos

Member
Skii said:
It's definitely doesn't feel fair when you're not running Ana. As a tank player, it's extremely noticeable. And I'm all for letting a patch settle for a good 4 weeks before making adjustments but this is a special case. The fact that your premium tank buster was actually the worst DPS to run into the tank meta was the clearest possible sign that there is something fundamentally wrong with the balance of the game.
Click to expand...

Like I said, the game balance isn't bad. It's just skewed to a very restrictive hero pool. Reaper being bad against most of the meta, tank-heavy comps doesn't speak to poor game balance, just that Reaper is a bad hero to select in most situations, whether or not killing tanks is Reaper's intended purpose.

What speaks to poor game balance is team fights hinging on which side's Ana goes down first where Ana is the dominant "must-pick" hero. This isn't really true on every level of play though so it's not really terrible in the grand scheme of things. >_>
 
B

Blu(e)

Member
hypernima said:
Streaming now twitch.tv/hascbby
Click to expand...

The Numbani game. You went by yourself going to high ground when you yourself mentioned they were going middle and still went anyways. Later Soldier with Rein + someone else were grouping up (using group up command) to the left flank and then you went middle said "Am I here just by myself?"

You lack game awareness nor do you or your group wait for each other and do an actual push together
 
xaosslug

xaosslug

Member
holysan said:
So if nerfing Ana won’t solve the tank problem, do you think that blizz should or will make a 2 tank limit? They did it with 1 hero limit after iirc ESL introduced this to their matches, since viewers got bored of 6 DVAs or Tracers running on the point to stall. I can imagine that even now someone would rather see TVIQ or Shadowburn wrecking with Genji than a DVA holding down E or god tier Cree players like Taimou and Mendo being forced to play Roadhog.
Click to expand...

it's not that nerfing Ana won't solve the tank meta, it's that the Ana nerfs so far aren't enough. People have tested the Ana nerfs on PTR and apparently you can still heal tanks to full health even with the nerfs, and in fact BEFORE the nerf Ana would over heal. Plus, a lot of peeps use Ana mostly for her anti-heal, which I don't think has been nerfed at all? LOL

but Blizz doesn't really care, because Ana's their shiny & new and they like where she is in the meta, so they will likely just continue to cripple balance all the tanks - except Reinhardt (and Winston, because tdgaf. lolz).
 
S

Skii

Member
Paltheos said:
Like I said, the game balance isn't bad. It's just skewed to a very restrictive hero pool. Reaper being bad against most of the meta, tank-heavy comps doesn't speak to poor game balance, just that Reaper is a bad hero to select in most situations, whether or not killing tanks is Reaper's intended purpose.

What speaks to poor game balance is team fights hinging on which side's Ana goes down first where Ana is the dominant "must-pick" hero. This isn't really true on every level of play though so it's not really terrible in the grand scheme of things. >_>
Click to expand...

How isn't the balance an issue if the game is forcing you to pick from a very restricted pool of heroes to have a realistic chance of winning at higher levels? The game was never balanced for every hero but this is easily the most restricted it's been recently.

Reaper being specifically weak against the tank meta precisely indicates something has gone wrong with the balance of the game lmao.

And team fights are literally decided by who's Ana goes down first. That is the entire problem lol. And it is frankly deciding games at lower levels as well as higher ones.
 
H

hypernima

Banned
Blu(e) said:
The Numbani game. You went by yourself going to high ground when you yourself mentioned they were going middle and still went anyways. Later Soldier with Rein + someone else were grouping up (using group up command) to the left flank and then you went middle said "Am I here just by myself?"

You lack game awareness nor do you or your group wait for each other and do an actual push together
Click to expand...

I'll admit, I tend to push alone a lot. But how do I convince the group to take a different route? Or to group when they ignore group up.
 
H

holysan

Member
xaosslug said:
it's not that nerfing Ana won't solve the tank meta, it's that the Ana nerfs so far aren't enough. People have tested the Ana nerfs on PTR and apparently you can still heal tanks to full health even with the nerfs, and in fact BEFORE the nerf Ana would over heal. Plus, a lot of peeps use Ana mostly for her anti-heal, which I don't think has been nerfed at all? LOL

but Blizz doesn't really care, because Ana's their shiny & new and they like where she is in the meta, so they will likely just continue to cripple balance all the tanks - except Reinhardt (and Winston, because tdgaf. lolz).
Click to expand...

I don't understand how they still haven't reduced the anti-heal to 50%. Every flanker is fucked against Ana, but nope. They still should think about a 2 tank limit imo.
 
O

ohkay

Member
Akuun said:
That, plus I have trouble killing flankers 1v1 like everyone says that Ana can, so that's frustrating too.
Click to expand...
You gotta be able to hit those sleep darts and close range uncapped attacks, even on the likes of Tracer and Genji.

As for bodyblocking, make sure you know how big the healing hit boxes are, since it means you don't need to get a complete direct hit to heal. This helps with the tanks, and especially Rein since there will generally be bodies behind him.
 
A

AngryMoth

Member
Took a week off for exams, about to get back in the saddle for some games this evening. Hope I'm not too rusty!

Did that those balance changes to roadhog and ana go to the live servers yet?
 
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