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[Ghost is Bad]

Doubt it. Widow's pretty weak vs Reinhardt and relies on chaotic, separated fights where she can get picks without the big ass shield shutting her down. Plus, the +1 can easily be filled in with Winston which forces her to be with her team, nullifying much of her pick power.

hey man, you're the one who asked. no real changes to lucio or reinhardt means ana is probably here to stay.

 

[caesar]

I bust out the pharah in masters alot, it works you just have to get the jump on them.

 

[Psychoward]

I warned the group what would be happening.

We can lose playing the meta or we can lose playing fun characters, I don't see the issue.

Just messing around, I haven't been on in a few days anyway so I missed your comp sombra apparently.

 

[Papercuts]

I really think Rein needs some looking into at this point. He's been untouched since release but has always been a highly instrumental character. He gets overlooked because nothing about him comes off directly overpowered, but being highly used and having great utility has been a valid enough reason to nerf characters in the past.

I agree but I don't really know what they can do to him to change anything. I don't think the HP on his shield matters since just having it gives an edge, and firestrike/charge aren't really that crazy. His ult is insane though.

Doesn't help that they sorta of designed themselves into a wall with rein being the counter to rein which is never good. If one team has him and the other doesn't, they're going to get rolled and wiped by earthshatter.

 

[ohkay]

Can't wait for Genji to be back

 

[Odrion]

reinhardt
ana
lucio
zarya
soldier
+1

is my guess.

i miss playing mccree

 

[hypernima]

yeah i'm just gonna keep spamming pharah. nobody knows how to aim at high gold/low plat lol.

Try that shit with me fam. kek.

I just had a match where Hanzo got 2x ult because he was left uncontested. Our Dva just was letting him live.

But we rectified our differences in the next match. I don't know if I should give tips in comp, I don't wanna be too bossy.

 

[ivanthebearable]

I just want to be able to use Sombra without people wanting to throw the second I click her.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I have played 20+ hours of Sombra, Blizzard. Throw in Arcade and PTR and it's higher still. She is better than people think, yes. She is still not "very powerful." You can do great things with her, but it is not at all clear that they outweigh having a safer, more straightforward DPS pick churning damage as part of a deathball.

Maybe that will change as the meta changes, but c'mon. "People haven't mastered her" is a weird excuse.

 

[Kor of Memory]

I really think Rein needs some looking into at this point. He's been untouched since release but has always been a highly instrumental character. He gets overlooked because nothing about him comes off directly overpowered, but being highly used and having great utility has been a valid enough reason to nerf characters in the past.

Rein has weaknesses and vulnerability. That seems to be the main thing Blizzard accounts for when balancing.

Blizzard wants to make sure that heroes aren't good at too many things, and have natural drawbacks that other heroes can capitalize on at the right time.

Rein is extremely vulnerable when his shield is down, and even during his charge.

 

[Red Arremer]

That's why I am so insistent on them introducing a second character who can protect their teammates in the same fashion Reinhardt can. He's currently the only dedicated tank in the game. The other tanks can off-tank at best, but only Rein can do what Rein does.

We don't need another healer or offense or defense character, we need another tank who fills the same base role as Rein. This will make Rein less of a must-have pick.

 

[exYle]

I'm gonna miss hooking people from Dorado to point 2 of Ilios

 

[Kor of Memory]

That's why I am so insistent on them introducing a second character who can protect their teammates in the same fashion Reinhardt can. He's currently the only dedicated tank in the game. The other tanks can off-tank at best, but only Rein can do what Rein does.

We don't need another healer or offense or defense character, we need another tank who fills the same base role as Rein. This will make Rein less of a must-have pick.

Ehh... That's because Rein is a character based around the min/max idea.

He has the least offensive capabilities of all the tank, in favor of having more defensive abilities.

All the other tanks basically outrank him when it comes to DPS, Support, Mobility, and Utility.

 

[Odrion]

charge seems like an offense oriented ability to me

 

[Red Arremer]

Ehh... That's because Rein is a character based around the min/max idea.

He has the least offensive capabilities of all the tank, in favor of having more defensive abilities.

All the other tanks basically outrank him when it comes to DPS, Support, Mobility, and Utility.

I'm well aware of that. But that doesn't make Rein OP like Rickenslacker seems to imply (by saying that "he has to be looked at" and whatnot). He's perfectly fine. It's just that his role is so important to the current modes' gameplay that he is invaluable to just about any team composition and map situation.

There's simply no alternatives to main tanking and reliably protecting the squishies from damage. If there were alternatives like there are for healers or DPS, you would see various characters being swapped out on occasion, like Zenyatta sometimes getting picked over Lucio, or Tracer sometimes getting picked over Soldier, etc.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Rein is absolutely OP and has been since before the game came out. It's just a slight thing because of the unique role he fills.

Earthshatter is some fucken bullshit. Also the hitboxes for his hammer and charge, but I understand why those have to be so. Earthshatter is horrible.

 

[Nimby]

I've been keeping track of hero usage across the patch/season to see how it looks overall, kinda useless now considering a patch is coming soon but hey:

*Most data comes from winstonslab.com, dates 12/10-13 and 12/20-13 were done by me

In CaptainPlanet's format, tier list would be:

[B]S Tier (>95%)[/B]: Lucio
[B]A Tier (>80%)[/B]: Reinhardt, Ana
[B]B Tier (>50%)[/B]: D.Va, Roadhog, Zarya
[B]C Tier (>20%)[/B]: Soldier 76, Tracer
[B]D Tier  (>5%)[/B]: Zenyatta, Mei, Genji, Winston, McCree, Pharah
[B]F Tier  (<5%)[/B]: Reaper, Sombra, Symmetra, Widowmaker, Hanzo, Mercy, Torbjorn, Junkrat, Bastion

In terms of what composition I think will be "most standard" next patch, something along the lines of this (basically what Misfits was running today):

Tank
Flex
DPS 1
DPS 2
Support 1
Support 2

 

[Red Arremer]

The only BS thing about Earthshatter is that it's not consistent in how it works, imo. In situations where the cone crosses elevation (either upwards or downwards), it seems to be entirely inconsistent in if it triggers the stun or not.

 

[Skii]

You can't nerf Reinhardt because it would literally be impossible to cap certain points in this game's current state.

Good luck capping Echenwalde point A without a Rein. And even then, if their Mei is on point, it's ridiculously hard to coordinate an attack.

 

[Data West]

What if we made a character that has an extremely generous hitscan gun, self aoe healing, the longest lasting ult in the game and a sprint button with on cd

And then lets buff his damage lolololol

 

[ohkay]

Just gotta make dive comps as effective as standard comps with Rein

 

[Azoor]

The only BS thing about Earthshatter is that it's not consistent in how it works, imo. In situations where the cone crosses elevation (either upwards or downwards), it seems to be entirely inconsistent in if it triggers the stun or not.

Even the charge is inconsistent if we were being honest.

 

[Red Arremer]

Having a second character who can perform Rein's protective role also will allow to compare them. If Rein really is OP, then obviously he can be brought down to Tank B's level.

Even the charge is inconsistent if were being honest.

Nowhere near as bad as Earthshatter tho.

what I don't get is how Earth Shatter can stun you when you're flying above Reinhardt sometimes.

That is the inconsistency I am talking about. Sometimes you can knocked out of the air, sometimes it doesn't stun someone who's like on a platform that's an inch higher or lower (e.g. parts of the walls near Point B in Anubis).

 

[Ghost is Bad]

what I don't get is how Earth Shatter can stun you when you're flying above Reinhardt sometimes.

 

[LucidMomentum]

diamond too my dude

I like how everyone on that team had a way to hit you lol.

 

[Data West]

what I don't get is how Earth Shatter can stun you when you're flying above Reinhardt sometimes.

Mei's ult does the same thing. With all the jump spamming in the game you kind of have to be generous with stuff like that.

Having a second character who can perform Rein's protective role also will allow to compare them. If Rein really is OP, then obviously he can be brought down to Tank B's level.

Winston is the only other 'tank' in the game and doesn't fit the role. If they would cut his barrier CD in half he could actually use it more defensively and more as a team player than having to be so strict with it.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I like how everyone on that team had a way to hit you lol.

That's like 1927 Murder's Row of the New York Yankees that Pharah fucked up!, should be in the Negative, keep dying to that crew + suicide by your own rockets ;<_<

Jeez, were they even looking up?

 

[Odrion]

Rein is absolutely OP and has been since before the game came out. It's just a slight thing because of the unique role he fills.

Earthshatter is some fucken bullshit. Also the hitboxes for his hammer and charge, but I understand why those have to be so. Earthshatter is horrible.

people bitch about roadhog's hook being bullshit but somehow charge gets a free pass

also I don't think Reinhardt is very OP, he's just... perfectly designed for the role I guess? And no one else can really replace that role. Maybe D.VA, but her defense matrix doesn't really communicate "safe zone" to a team as well as a giant blue wall does

Symmetra could have if her shield was static.

 

[Red Arremer]

people bitch about roadhog's hook being bullshit but somehow charge gets a free pass

Cause Charge is still really difficult to land, and if you misfire it, you're exposed/out of position. In fact you can be killed between pinning someone and landing against a wall.
Roadhog's hook is easier to land, much safer, and puts the hooked target out of position (if they're not dead already).

 

[Data West]

people bitch about roadhog's hook being bullshit but somehow charge gets a free pass

also I don't think Reinhardt is very OP, he's just... perfectly designed for the role I guess? And no one else can really replace that role. Maybe D.VA, but her defense matrix doesn't really communicate "safe zone" to a team as well as a giant blue wall does

Symmetra could have if her shield was static.

Because Charge completely exposes Reinhardt to the enemy team as well as his own team.

Where as Roadhog's hook is a safe picking ability with barely any drawback. Bad Charges can lose the fight for you in an instant.

 

[Azoor]

Cause Charge is still really difficult to land, and if you misfire it, you're exposed/out of position. In fact you can be killed between pinning someone and landing against a wall.
Roadhog's hook is easier to land, much safer, and puts the hooked target out of position (if they're not dead already).

Not to mention that it can be cancelled by another charging Rein and Roadhog's hook.

Hell, it can be vert detrimental to your team and you will risk leaving them exposed.

 

[pizzacat]

I bust out the pharah in masters alot, it works you just have to get the jump on them.

Stun blast jumping to someones face they begin to freak out their aim is everywhere but on you

 

[Red Arremer]

Plus unlike the Hook, the Charge has a windup and, if you crash into a wall, a second of being stunned, which are two moments in which you are completely helpless.
The two aren't even comparable.

 

[Apathy]

I've been keeping track of hero usage across the patch/season to see how it looks overall, kinda useless now considering a patch is coming soon but hey:



In terms of what composition I think will be "most standard" next patch, something along the lines of this (basically what Misfits was running today):

Tank
Flex
DPS 1
DPS 2
Support 1
Support 2

Is that any specific rank? Because Jeff the other day that rein was 12th picked overall

 

[antitrop]

Maybe that will change as the meta changes, but c'mon. "People haven't mastered her" is a weird excuse.

It was the same excuse they used for Symmetra, before completely reworking her.

 

[Data West]

when will blizzard stop neglecting bastion tho

 

[Odrion]

I don't like this arguing for bad hitboxes because of "balance". a bad hitbox is a bad hitbox, overwatch should clearly communicate where you can avoid tripping on it.

 

[ivanthebearable]

I think the "mastering her" angle is a little more justified in Sombra's position considering most people dropped her like a bad habit like a week after she came out and most people don't even want to try to experiment with her and find solid strategies with her and other characters.

Though that is ridiculously hard to do at all in this current meta so who knows. Tank meta is so lame.

when will blizzard stop neglecting bastion tho

I mean what can they really give Bastion at this point anyways?

 

[zoukka]

when will blizzard stop neglecting bastion tho

He's probably a champ in bronze IDK.

 

[Nimby]

Is that any specific rank? Because Jeff the other day that rein was 12th picked overall

Tournament play only. Kinda hard to get accurate data from actual matches, if you analyze your matches it tends to skew your favorite picks and you also can't see what heroes were swapped and when they were swapped reliably.

Also, I think we know why Reinhardt is 12th

Spoiler

no one wants to play him

. Reinhardt should be tank numero uno unless you're going dive comp.

 

[Odrion]

I thought some people were using Sombra at a high level because of how you can abuse hacking medkits

 

[Red Arremer]

I don't like this arguing for bad hitboxes because of "balance". a bad hitbox is a bad hitbox, overwatch should clearly communicate where you can avoid tripping on it.

You weren't arguing about it being a bad hitbox though, you were complaining that people give the charge a "free pass", i.e. you were complaining about the lack of complaining about the charge.

 

[antitrop]

Is that any specific rank? Because Jeff the other day that rein was 12th picked overall

That's pro matches. Which goes to show how unwilling people in regular matchmaking are to play one of the most important characters in the game. So many "tank mains" that only play Zarya, D.Va, and Roadhog.

I've said it before, I think the best way for me to climb from Diamond to Masters (if I cared, because I've pretty much given up on Competitive) would be to give up being a support main and just become a straight-up Rein main.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Mei's ult does the same thing. With all the jump spamming in the game you kind of have to be generous with stuff like that.

and reaper's ult altho i feel his is very egregious because he never shoots upwards in his animation. it has a surprisingly tall vertical hitbox, too

 

[Odrion]

You weren't arguing about it being a bad hitbox though, you were complaining that people give the charge a "free pass", i.e. you were complaining about the lack of complaining about the charge.

did you not read the post I was responding to?

 

[Antiwhippy]

reinhardt
ana
lucio
zarya
soldier
+1

is my guess.

Dive comps man.

Expect them to be back in a big way.

With that also more mccree.

 

[ivanthebearable]

and reaper's ult altho i feel his is very egregious because he never shoots upwards in his animation. it has a surprisingly tall vertical hitbox, too

This has always bothered me when I play as Pharah or Mercy. I'll be plenty high up and NO I died for whatever reason. It's so unclear where the hitbox is.

Mei, Junkrat, Reaper and D.Va all kinda share this to be totally honest. D.Va less so but it's not that clear either way.

 

[Red Arremer]

did you not read the post I was responding to?

I did. That poster said that he understands why charge/hammer hitboxes are bigger. It's the same argument you can make for projectile hitboxes. You were the one who brought up the comparison to the hook and it getting shit.

 

[Apathy]

Tournament play only. Kinda hard to get accurate data from actual matches, if you analyze your matches it tends to skew your favorite picks and you also can't see what heroes were swapped and when they were swapped reliably.

Also, I think we know why Reinhardt is 12th

Spoiler

no one wants to play him

. Reinhardt should be tank numero uno unless you're going dive comp.

Well it's one of the false assumptions we brought up to jeff in the thread where he posted that Rein was 12th. The fact that his data is being cherry picked across all rankings. Lower rankings aren't going to have that many reins and the vast majority of players make the up the lower ranks, but in terms of how important he is and how much of a must pick he is when it comes to higher tiers should not absolve the team from looking at his pick percentage and dealing with it, as the have with other "must pick" heroes.

 

[Odrion]

I did. That poster said that he understands why charge/hammer hitboxes are bigger.

Yes, and?