Hey, I was doing things.
Her right click ability will kill so many people who run away with low health. It's not even funny how good it is.
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Overwatch |OT8| Our love will last Pharah-ver
- Thread starter ExMachina
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Hey, I was doing things.
Her right click ability will kill so many people who run away with low health. It's not even funny how good it is.
It's kinda silly saying stuff like "gold is like this, plat is like that" considering how fluid the ranking system is and that you can basically go up or down a full tier in a single session if you get a streak.
It's basically just 3 ranks. Bronze leaking into silver for the "worst" players, gold/plat/diamond leaking into master is all the same, and from there you have the really skilled players/boosted streamers/actual pros.
It's basically just 3 ranks. Bronze leaking into silver for the "worst" players, gold/plat/diamond leaking into master is all the same, and from there you have the really skilled players/boosted streamers/actual pros.
>3000 is top ~10% of the population? Wow.
Pushing into Masters will be very difficult.
I really like this Orisa skin a lot:
Might be my favorite.
Both of her legendary designs seem very good, between the bug design and the neon armor design. I think I prefer the latter.
Orissa has some impressive utility.
I don't agree with this. There's no reason why you should have extreme drops in tiers considering the way the mmr works now it's fairly easy to rank up.
I think most people who have dropped drastically in sr usually don't end up anywhere near their season high sr and are dropping because they really don't belong that high up anyway. I think there are lots of players that got carried into a master but with some of the mmr changes hopefully we'll see an end to that
Incendiary
Banned
I really like this Orisa skin a lot:
Might be my favorite.
It reminds me of Gravity Beetle.
I think Gold/Plat is different than Diamond. I mean I haven't been there, but from what I understand Diamond has people who think they've peaked and just fuck around. I rarely run into people who actively throw in Gold/Plat areas. I'd also say those that are in Diamond have a fairly good conception of how to play as a team - they just sometimes actively choose not to, while in Gold/Plat you still get the occasional "I can take on the entire enemy team on the point by myself as Zenyatta" players.
Maybe I'm just wishful thinking about Diamond, though.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Vault Dweller 111
Member
There is a world of Overwatch that 50% of the player base lives in that most of us will never see.
Might be the same person. On PS4? I first played with her when I was playing with ND.
Maybe if we throw games, lol
Are you playing tonight?
Aren't you GM, surely that would make sense.
Genuinely shocked diamond is top 10%. It feels like a lot of people have made the push to diamond or above in season 3 thanks to bonus SR so it just made sense diamond was top 25% overbuff was showing.
Gold was absolute hell for me. During the bonus SR games, I lost the majority of them dropping around 200 SR and this was mainly down to team mates throwing or leaving games. I became super tilted and I would misplay so many situations because I had zero trust in my team mates. I only realised this when I showed Jellie a video of me playing and decided to watch it myself. So I changed the way I played and thanks to caesar got carried out of gold. I was fine in plat and was on average climbing but it was taking a long time so after a few sessions with Jellie I managed to hit 3000 SR on the dot by mainly going Reinhardt with Jellie on Zarya/Ana.
I personally feel like a decent number of players in gold are capable of playing in plat/diamond but they will never really climb because their team mates will throw the game based on the fact that they picked Widow or some other non meta pick. I don't mind the Widow on attack but my team would just throw at that decision even though the Widow would be getting picks.
In diamond people throw by going Torb/Symmetra on attack but in gold people would throw by just killing themselves over and over which is infinitely worse.
I know this is all anecdotal and I'm not saying it's not my fault but playing in gold for a significant amount of time is not conducive to learning the game and becoming better. I've improved for sure but I feel like I was better than gold whilst playing there but the way the system is set up made it really hard for me to mentally climb out of that mess.
tl;dr gold is a shitshow and will drag you down to its level.
Gold was absolute hell for me. During the bonus SR games, I lost the majority of them dropping around 200 SR and this was mainly down to team mates throwing or leaving games. I became super tilted and I would misplay so many situations because I had zero trust in my team mates. I only realised this when I showed Jellie a video of me playing and decided to watch it myself. So I changed the way I played and thanks to caesar got carried out of gold. I was fine in plat and was on average climbing but it was taking a long time so after a few sessions with Jellie I managed to hit 3000 SR on the dot by mainly going Reinhardt with Jellie on Zarya/Ana.
I personally feel like a decent number of players in gold are capable of playing in plat/diamond but they will never really climb because their team mates will throw the game based on the fact that they picked Widow or some other non meta pick. I don't mind the Widow on attack but my team would just throw at that decision even though the Widow would be getting picks.
In diamond people throw by going Torb/Symmetra on attack but in gold people would throw by just killing themselves over and over which is infinitely worse.
I know this is all anecdotal and I'm not saying it's not my fault but playing in gold for a significant amount of time is not conducive to learning the game and becoming better. I've improved for sure but I feel like I was better than gold whilst playing there but the way the system is set up made it really hard for me to mentally climb out of that mess.
tl;dr gold is a shitshow and will drag you down to its level.
Sir Griffith
Member
I got close to 3200 in S3 and Overbuff said I was in top 86th/87th percentile, I'm guessing the data differs a bit?
Incendiary
Banned
I wonder if the placement stats differ from console to PC. Because my experience in Gold on console seems drastically different from PC Gold level.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Overbuff probably has a higher percentage of upper SR people, cus doesn't it draw that info when people submit themselves? I imagine higher ranks are more likely to check than people in bronze
Also LiK, nah, I think it was someone else. Still funny tho
Overbuff only counts players on overbuff, so it isn't accurate.
These are the real numbers.
Occasional? more like most, sadly
And every few games, you get a guy who feels like defending right outside their spawn, an dying within 10 seconds, so the rest of the team have to fight 5vs6 on point.Vault Dweller 111
Member
Not sure. I want to try and beat Horizon before Orissa is released so I might just dive into that all weekend. But if you guys are playing and see me feel free to give me an invite.
I don't think I'd be a great addition right now anyway. I've hardly played the new patch, haven't done placements or anything. I probably suck right now.
Overbuff is going numbers are going to be skewed higher since better players, or players willing to improve, will be disproportionately more likely to access those sites.
It's going to be further skewed towards a smaller percent of that population since there are multiple tracking sites to use.
Kor of Memory
Member
I really like this Orisa skin a lot:
Might be my favorite.
Makes me think of two things here:
Stun the insect
and
Anub'Arak
Yeah, I'm just saying like it makes sense I'd feel like the upper ranks are too crowded because I just never run into lower rank people. Like going by my experience I'd assume like 75% of the playerbase is plat/diamond. That's hyperbolic but it really does feel that way.
Ok, you should do placements first. I already did mine. Guess I'll focus on Horizon tonight unless I see Owzers, ND and UltimaPooh all playing.
After seeing Orisa yesterday and having time to think on it I think she looks neat. Her visual design has some problems but her kit looks cool.
I am however extremely disappointed that it wasn't Doomfist revealed. But at least we now that Doomfist is a character that's running around doing things so he's basically a shoe in for for a later release.
I'm really just glad Orisa just wasn't the same character with just the Doomfist gauntlet strapped to her arm. That would have pissed me off IMMENSELY.
I am however extremely disappointed that it wasn't Doomfist revealed. But at least we now that Doomfist is a character that's running around doing things so he's basically a shoe in for for a later release.
I'm really just glad Orisa just wasn't the same character with just the Doomfist gauntlet strapped to her arm. That would have pissed me off IMMENSELY.
Do you still have that vod where you were tilting without realising? Was pretty funny to review for you. You're rein is good. Made a lot of good plays on your way to diamond. You managed to be in the top 14% of people who got to at least diamond (barely).
I've played a lot of single player FPSes (and a bit of multiplayer) over the years, but some of my friends are pretty new to them, and have finished maybe 1-3 FPS single player campaigns in their lives before starting Overwatch. I ranked into Gold last season at around 2200 SR, hovered around there for a while in solo queue, then got into a really bad losing streak with friends, and ended up in bronze/silver. I can probably give a bit more insight into what newer players have to deal with.
I think people who aren't as experienced in FPSes lack a lot of things that a lot of experienced players just take for granted, which leads to the more experienced players completely forgetting that they went through those same steps when they first started. It leads to a lot of "I don't get why you can't do all these things that I find super obvious and easy" reactions from experienced players.
Newer players tend to struggle with two main things: Controls and situational awareness.
Control-wise, keyboard/mouse honestly takes a lot of getting used to if you're picking them up from scratch. It's not just aim. Experienced FPS players turn and look around in-game as naturally as they do in real life because they are just that used to their mouse sensitivity and their controls. It takes no thought at all to do these things. But someone newer to the genre still needs to think about what movements they need to input in order to get their character to do what they want. An experienced player may think "look here" and then their character is immediately looking there. A new player may think "look here" and then they have to think about how much they need to move their mouse to look there, then maybe correct for undershooting/overshooting whatever they're looking at.
Aim-wise, it leads to a very noticeable delay in terms of reaction speeds. You know how sometimes you see a pro player see a target, snap to it, and land a shot on that target, all in the time it takes for you to just barely register that the target was there in the first place? New players have a similar speed difference when compared to experienced players. There's a noticeable delay because of general unfamiliarity with the genre and controls.
Awareness is another thing. Experienced players take the damage circle around the crosshairs for granted, as very obvious information showing where damage is coming from if we get hit. If someone flanks a player, new players can be overwhelmed by the information that the UI is giving to them and might not even notice that they're taking damage. If they do notice, they don't know to immediately check the damage circle first to see where the damage is coming from. And if they know to check the circle, maybe they don't have the mechanical skill or decision making to react properly with that information (turn to face the danger? run?) in time before they get killed by the flanker. And so on and so forth.
Decision making tends to be lacking too, because of a lack of understanding of basic conventions that more experienced players do very naturally. Things like using cover, constantly moving, ADAD strafing back and forth from behind cover to only peek out to fire shots, knowing where is "safe" and which directions threats are likely to come from, and so on. Knowing when to back off from a fight and when not to initiate a fight when you are at a disadvantage. Knowing how to prioritize high-value targets like an exposed healer, a poorly positioned Bastion, or an overextending tank. New players are totally lost to all of these concepts and need to learn them all one by one, while getting wrecked nonstop the entire way.
At bronze/silver, you see people who are missing some large combination of these things. Sometimes you can join a team of 6 and it feels like you're playing in a team of 3-4 people because some people just don't know what to do, or can't do what they want to do. Tanks may just charge headfirst into their deaths over and over. Healers might not have the awareness to keep people healed, or might not have the aim to heal people in time with Ana. Players may not notice Junkrat bombs in time before they die to them. Players may get hit by a flanker but just run ahead instead of trying to deal with the threat, all trusting someone else to handle it.
They're not all bad, though. Sometimes you see people who play way better than their SR implies, but not well enough to be a smurf. These are the people who would probably rank higher but got unlucky by disconnects, people throwing, and so on. They're probably good enough to rank up if placed with similarly skilled people, but not good enough to carry a team that has no awareness or cohesion the way a smurf might.
I think people who aren't as experienced in FPSes lack a lot of things that a lot of experienced players just take for granted, which leads to the more experienced players completely forgetting that they went through those same steps when they first started. It leads to a lot of "I don't get why you can't do all these things that I find super obvious and easy" reactions from experienced players.
Newer players tend to struggle with two main things: Controls and situational awareness.
Control-wise, keyboard/mouse honestly takes a lot of getting used to if you're picking them up from scratch. It's not just aim. Experienced FPS players turn and look around in-game as naturally as they do in real life because they are just that used to their mouse sensitivity and their controls. It takes no thought at all to do these things. But someone newer to the genre still needs to think about what movements they need to input in order to get their character to do what they want. An experienced player may think "look here" and then their character is immediately looking there. A new player may think "look here" and then they have to think about how much they need to move their mouse to look there, then maybe correct for undershooting/overshooting whatever they're looking at.
Aim-wise, it leads to a very noticeable delay in terms of reaction speeds. You know how sometimes you see a pro player see a target, snap to it, and land a shot on that target, all in the time it takes for you to just barely register that the target was there in the first place? New players have a similar speed difference when compared to experienced players. There's a noticeable delay because of general unfamiliarity with the genre and controls.
Awareness is another thing. Experienced players take the damage circle around the crosshairs for granted, as very obvious information showing where damage is coming from if we get hit. If someone flanks a player, new players can be overwhelmed by the information that the UI is giving to them and might not even notice that they're taking damage. If they do notice, they don't know to immediately check the damage circle first to see where the damage is coming from. And if they know to check the circle, maybe they don't have the mechanical skill or decision making to react properly with that information (turn to face the danger? run?) in time before they get killed by the flanker. And so on and so forth.
Decision making tends to be lacking too, because of a lack of understanding of basic conventions that more experienced players do very naturally. Things like using cover, constantly moving, ADAD strafing back and forth from behind cover to only peek out to fire shots, knowing where is "safe" and which directions threats are likely to come from, and so on. Knowing when to back off from a fight and when not to initiate a fight when you are at a disadvantage. Knowing how to prioritize high-value targets like an exposed healer, a poorly positioned Bastion, or an overextending tank. New players are totally lost to all of these concepts and need to learn them all one by one, while getting wrecked nonstop the entire way.
At bronze/silver, you see people who are missing some large combination of these things. Sometimes you can join a team of 6 and it feels like you're playing in a team of 3-4 people because some people just don't know what to do, or can't do what they want to do. Tanks may just charge headfirst into their deaths over and over. Healers might not have the awareness to keep people healed, or might not have the aim to heal people in time with Ana. Players may not notice Junkrat bombs in time before they die to them. Players may get hit by a flanker but just run ahead instead of trying to deal with the threat, all trusting someone else to handle it.
They're not all bad, though. Sometimes you see people who play way better than their SR implies, but not well enough to be a smurf. These are the people who would probably rank higher but got unlucky by disconnects, people throwing, and so on. They're probably good enough to rank up if placed with similarly skilled people, but not good enough to carry a team that has no awareness or cohesion the way a smurf might.
Yeah I still have it as a reminder of how bad tilting affects your play. Glad I learnt Reinhardt because no one wants to play him lol.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Did you know that Tracer can recall to recover damage taken as long as she is not dead?
The fact the teaching tools built into the game don't ever bring up team fighting and how characters work with that at this point is actually just unforgivable tbh. The fact the entire classification system and guiding systems pull you into playing this game as a back and forth classical FPS is really, really bad. That needed to be changed several months ago.
They could do a fun tutorial where it teaches the objectives for different map types and tell people the basics. But not even that exists in their official YT page, iirc. So yea, then we end up with a lot of new players who are just playing whatever and not learning.
Red Arremer
Member
I would also add the team building tips. For newer players and lower levels, people seem to very heavily follow what the team building tips are suggesting, and to put it simply, they're not always ideal. Quite the opposite.
The only team building tips that should be displayed at all imo are: No Healers, No Tanks and Too Many Snipers. And the latter should be glowing red and blinking across the entire screen instead of being mitigated to a tiny corner.
The only team building tips that should be displayed at all imo are: No Healers, No Tanks and Too Many Snipers. And the latter should be glowing red and blinking across the entire screen instead of being mitigated to a tiny corner.
Kor of Memory
Member
It's fun to play at times but I do get tired of how chaotic it gets.
Red Arremer
Member
Uh, no? She's still on PTR. Only once the patch goes live will she be released to console.
Shake Appeal
Member
I kinda forget this now, but I watched and read so much around the beta and launch that I'd be miles ahead of a new player even without any gulf in experience or mechanical skill.
So many things I just take completely for granted actually took literal hours of study away from the game, even before I have to snap a reticle to anyone's head.
Also, I think chaotic QP and Mystery Heroes stuff makes you worse at the game. When I was regularly playing just comp with my better friends and getting dragged into mid-Diamond games with them, I was much better because I was concentrating and learning the rhythms and how to engage/disengage. In QP, I can just do ridiculous Sombra things with a "carry" mentality and get away with it, but if I try anything like that even in high-Plat, I'm doing everyone a disservice.
So many things I just take completely for granted actually took literal hours of study away from the game, even before I have to snap a reticle to anyone's head.
Also, I think chaotic QP and Mystery Heroes stuff makes you worse at the game. When I was regularly playing just comp with my better friends and getting dragged into mid-Diamond games with them, I was much better because I was concentrating and learning the rhythms and how to engage/disengage. In QP, I can just do ridiculous Sombra things with a "carry" mentality and get away with it, but if I try anything like that even in high-Plat, I'm doing everyone a disservice.
Like I'm just going to make a list of skills that are required to play Overwatch:
Aim
Positioning
CD management
Ult eco management
team building
comboing
Like, all of those are really important, but they all feed into one single idea that is what defines the skill of an Overwatch player:
Team Fighting Macro
Like, at the end of the day the only thing that matters in Overwatch is if you can consistently carry back to back teamfights or set them up to be un-loseable. Killing things, playing objective, holding key parts of the map are what win you matches in other FPS games. All of those things are important in Overwatch, but again they all just feed into how well you're going to execute a teamfight. No other FPS is like that, and nothing in Overwatch tells people how that works :T
It's why people get stuck on Junkrat. He can play the objective, deal lots of damage and kill people, be super annoying and scatter people. In most FPS games that's good. But he can't team fight to save his life, so he's a bargain bin gimmick tier character. And like, that's fine. The problem is people pick Junkrat and they get good with him and then eventually hit the wall where team fighting becomes more important and they lose. They either don't understand since they learned the game wrong and just keep plugging away, or they just quit. Typically, anyways.
Another example that's better is Soldier. Dude is the best defensive DPS in the game, and his teamfight comes down from damage. But, his teamfighting ability can be heavily limited, he's actually worse at finishing off targets than most heroes, and he just requires good team fighting macro in general. But the general playerbase thinks he's broken cause he just deals a lot of damage. They pick him and climb climb climb until again they hit that point where the general FPS gameflow won't cut it, and it's the same shit.
Bastion is similar. Widow and Hanzo are especially similar. etc. All the while the game is telling you to play it like it's something completely different. It's really sloppy work, and the fact the team building screen/tips/categories haven't been reworked yet is just nonsensical to me. They really need to do like a "UI overhaul" update that just teaches people better to play their game, because the current stuff in place is actively harmful.
Aim
Positioning
CD management
Ult eco management
team building
comboing
Like, all of those are really important, but they all feed into one single idea that is what defines the skill of an Overwatch player:
Team Fighting Macro
Like, at the end of the day the only thing that matters in Overwatch is if you can consistently carry back to back teamfights or set them up to be un-loseable. Killing things, playing objective, holding key parts of the map are what win you matches in other FPS games. All of those things are important in Overwatch, but again they all just feed into how well you're going to execute a teamfight. No other FPS is like that, and nothing in Overwatch tells people how that works :T
It's why people get stuck on Junkrat. He can play the objective, deal lots of damage and kill people, be super annoying and scatter people. In most FPS games that's good. But he can't team fight to save his life, so he's a bargain bin gimmick tier character. And like, that's fine. The problem is people pick Junkrat and they get good with him and then eventually hit the wall where team fighting becomes more important and they lose. They either don't understand since they learned the game wrong and just keep plugging away, or they just quit. Typically, anyways.
Another example that's better is Soldier. Dude is the best defensive DPS in the game, and his teamfight comes down from damage. But, his teamfighting ability can be heavily limited, he's actually worse at finishing off targets than most heroes, and he just requires good team fighting macro in general. But the general playerbase thinks he's broken cause he just deals a lot of damage. They pick him and climb climb climb until again they hit that point where the general FPS gameflow won't cut it, and it's the same shit.
Bastion is similar. Widow and Hanzo are especially similar. etc. All the while the game is telling you to play it like it's something completely different. It's really sloppy work, and the fact the team building screen/tips/categories haven't been reworked yet is just nonsensical to me. They really need to do like a "UI overhaul" update that just teaches people better to play their game, because the current stuff in place is actively harmful.
I think it would be cool if there was some sort of teaching game mode where it would put a player who's higher level (and would be "paid" in more xp/bonus lootboxes) with lower level players. There could be a system where they either make suggestions for what characters to pick or even make the decisions themselves and the extra authority (as well as people playing specifically to improve their team play) would encourage people to listen and go along with strategies they were putting forward. I'm not that good but if you were it might even be quite fun to be a sort of general leading out a team against someone else. Not really played many online multiplayer games so not sure if there's similar ideas elsewhere that Overwatch could borrow from.
How would you do the bolded bit on a regular basis?
"But I have gold damage shooting into the enemy tank, so I have the right to talk shit about all the other players and supports on my team that I keep leaving behind to be chewed up by characters that I'm strong to."
Nocturnowl
Member
I feel silly for not quite grasping what exactly everyone means by team fighting macro, off the top of my head that to me sounds like initiating a fight as a team, covering your teammates (instead of having a pure narrow kill the enemy focus) whilst maintaining offense on the opposing targets in the general order of biggest threat/obstacle first.
Which I find is a playstyle most easily done as Zarya and Zenyatta. In general I like to think this is how people approach the game anyway.
Which I find is a playstyle most easily done as Zarya and Zenyatta. In general I like to think this is how people approach the game anyway.
Make the best decision to win the team fight, rather than just the one that gets the most kills and stuff. Like, what's better? Setting it up so your team can kill Soldier on high ground or killing a couple people on low ground while Soldier damages you? Really basic example. It's just figuring out how to successfully make the play that will make you outright win a fight rather than just get a kill or space. In a game with as heavy resource management as this it's really important to do.
Idk, like when I play Ana for example I hold every CD for a "roadmap" of how to win a fight. Like, I can give Soldier Nanovisor to kill a Rein shield + 3 people. Or, I can give an ultless Genji my Nanoboost so he can go kill a single Soldier. In a lot of instances, the latter is the better decision. I have a very clear way to fight and win from there. If I just throw ults and damage at the enemy team sure we could just wipe them off those kills, or we can eat a nanovisor in the ass after we blew ults/CDs and just wipe. Getting the highest impact for the least resources is your goal while setting up a winning teamfight form there.
Here's an extra thought on this: This is why at pro and max level Bastion is just a bit strong rather than the ender of all worlds. His teamfighting impact can be severely mitigated while you clean up his team, then you kill him. Bluntly, pouring ult resources into Bastion is dumb as fuck, pour the resources into Ana or Rein or something so he can't be protected for a fight, People don't know that though then freak the fuck out when they dump 3 ults into it and it survives from double pockets.
Incendiary
Banned
You raise a good point about Junkrat. I really like playing with him and I think I'm an above average to great player as him, but I find myself doing worse overall as him the better I get at the game. In the beginning I would always rock three or four gold medals as him and constantly win games. Now I still win games as him, but my stats are poor compared to the rest of the team.
I think it's partially that I group up with GAF more than solo queue now. In solo Q, Junk is great for area denial and if a team isn't organized you can really fuck them up. But when team-oriented tactics are in play, my Junkrat is kind of meh. Still good at area denial, but I basically spend more time setting up ways for other members of my team to get kills than participating myself.
I've just found my style of Junkrat play doesn't mesh well with the GAF group - who admittedly are all better than me. I still haven't quite found my team niche yet. I'm decent with Soldier, Rein, Lucio, and DVa in a team setting. And I've started doing well as Roadhog more and more too. Maybe I'm a Tank specialist. Who knew.
^ You guys haven't played with me. I'm like the best teamwork Junk. I stick with my team most of the time. Just ask other Gaffers here.
I mean you say that, and I don't wanna bash you because you're probably fine, but it's not about teamwork. It's about teamfight. The character just doesn't have the tools to do it on any level that is close to the rest of the cast. That's just kind of a fact.
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