As long as I'm zoning out the enemy and keeping them away from my team by blowing them up then I think that's good enough. Soon we'll play together and I can show you my own style (in QP of course).
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Overwatch |OT8| Our love will last Pharah-ver
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As long as I'm zoning out the enemy and keeping them away from my team by blowing them up then I think that's good enough. Soon we'll play together and I can show you my own style (in QP of course).
Nocturnowl
Member
It does tend to work better.
Those matches where you wordlessly have this back to back bond with another solo queue player covering each others arses, it's almost enough to make up for the times where you throw yourself into danger to help a struggling teammate and they respond by using the opportunity to escape and leave you to perish.
Like, that's enough in any game not named Overwatch. At some point or another both teams will get together and blow resources meanwhile Junkrat doesn't really have resources to blow and impact that fight.
I hate to call you out (especially cause I think you're just being insistent for the hell of it), but if you honestly believe that what you're doing with Junkrat is going to be enough to consistently push through teamfights and win games, you're the kind of player I'm talking about that's just been mislead by the game design.
Incendiary
Banned
^ You guys haven't played with me. I'm like the best teamwork Junk. I stick with my team most of the time. Just ask other Gaffers here.
I've played with you and seen your Junkrat in action - honestly I think you're just better at Junkrat team fighting than I am. My Junkrat was forged in the depths of Gold solo queue hell where I had to lone wolf it.
Incendiary
Banned
I think the thing is with Junkrat is that his success in a teamfight is primarily based on predicting how the teamfight will play out. If his trap is in the right place, he could immobilize a key player that can get picked. He also can't RipTire effectively in the middle of a fight - he has to either let it go ahead of time and predict where the enemy team is going to group up, or it's an exclamation point to pick off stragglers at the end.
Problem is most people playing him don't include that predictive part. They get the spam bombs down and that's it. Junkrats can be good in a teamfight but it requires a different mindset than how most other Overwatch characters approach the fight.
Edit: Didn't mean to double post here, whoops.
It's not even that. Like, even if he is predicting things he's not actively participating in and changing teamfights, and like that's just where it ends. If you watch high level gameplay, the Junkrat gimmick that teams run is they pick maps where it's extremely hard to get good team fights going and just use him to win the first ultless push by whatever damage margin, and then just prevent team fights the rest of the game. The second the team actually needs to teamfight for whatever reason, he gets witched off of.
He's actually good at being a team fight deterrent, but at the end of the day they are going to happen and once a team is set up for decent team fights he just gets rolled because he can't gain any ground to set up those deterrents. It's just the nature of the gameflow and he doesn't fit. Once you learn good team fighting macro stuff it becomes painfully obvious, but like I'd need to write a book to explain some of that stuff.
Like I said, you'll know when we play together. There's no point in arguing if you haven't even seen me play him. We always end up arguing about Junk's usefulness. Most enemy teams don't know how to deal with him and that's always a plus in my book.
I understand where you're coming from cuz I hear the same complaints from some Ow YouTubers about him as well.
Thanks! What was your PSN again?
His trap is one of the best abilities in the game, imo. I love stopping Rein charges and also setting it up to trap tanks like Zarya and D.va while I try to cause as much damage as possible.
Kor of Memory
Member
I wrote something similar about Destiny back in the day, but here is how I've always imagined the different levels of PvP structure to work:
Beginner Level
Novice Level
Amatuer Level
Expert Level
Obviously there are more elements at play here, but I feel like this is a decent summary of the different levels of skill.
Beginner Level
This starts with character familiarity. Mystery Heroes is a great place to get your feet wet. It's not about know specfics, it's more about picking stuff up like which characters are faster, and which are slower. Which ones have fast shooting guns, which ones have slow. Which ones have offense abilities, healing, defensive, mobility abilities. Because character interaction is the root of this game, and there are so many characters, this is the baseline of all future interactions and advanced skills.
Knowing every characters kit is a good sign you've climbed beyond a beginner.
Knowing every characters kit is a good sign you've climbed beyond a beginner.
Novice Level
This is where map familiarity starts to come into play. Every map has a unique geometry to it, on top of different game types and of course health pack locations. The way the characters interact with that geometry will start to become important. You'll begin to understand where widows and hanzos hang out. Where Rein's like to setup. Where Roadhogs like to stalk. Where Reapers like to perch.
You'll begin to develop a bit of muscle memory regarding map geometry once you've reached a certain point. Like, Gibralter's first checkpoint is coming up, and the attackers have a Reaper on their team. So you start reflexively looking on top of that corner structure to see if he's going to drop an Ult soon.
You'll begin to develop a bit of muscle memory regarding map geometry once you've reached a certain point. Like, Gibralter's first checkpoint is coming up, and the attackers have a Reaper on their team. So you start reflexively looking on top of that corner structure to see if he's going to drop an Ult soon.
Amatuer Level
Counter plays are going to start coming into play. Now that you've become familiar with the characters and the maps, you've started getting a sense for which characters seem to be able to win against specific enemy characters. Now you might find yourself switching character to better counter the enemy team, or to create better synergy.
You've started to learn that Tracer can charge her Ult crazy fast against an enemy Roadhog. You've started to learn that Winston can chew up an enemy Hanzo that's too far away from his teammates. You've started using Ults to counter other Ults, or Abilities to stop Ults dead. You've decided to play a Zarya to combo with the Hanzo on your team. Or an Ana to work with the Rein and DVa combo. You've even found yourself switching to a different character even though you've had your Ult ready to go for 2 full minutes but couldn't find the right time to use it.
You may also find yourself trying to peak at the enemy team before the game officially starts to you can better pick your character to go out the door with.
You've started to learn that Tracer can charge her Ult crazy fast against an enemy Roadhog. You've started to learn that Winston can chew up an enemy Hanzo that's too far away from his teammates. You've started using Ults to counter other Ults, or Abilities to stop Ults dead. You've decided to play a Zarya to combo with the Hanzo on your team. Or an Ana to work with the Rein and DVa combo. You've even found yourself switching to a different character even though you've had your Ult ready to go for 2 full minutes but couldn't find the right time to use it.
You may also find yourself trying to peak at the enemy team before the game officially starts to you can better pick your character to go out the door with.
Expert Level
Muscle Memory is taking over fully at this point. You see a Roadhog hook and you know you've got a window to move in on him before he can 1HKO you or a teammate. You see a Lucio use his Ult, so you count to 5 and then activate your Tactical Visor. You see the enemy Zen go Transcendance, so you wait a sec and then charge him as Rein so that by the time his Ult is over he'll hit the wall shortly.
Map geometry is second nature at this point, as is damage intake. You step out of a door and get hit from 10 o'clock. Not only do you know almost exactly where the enemy is shooting you, but you can tell from the pacing of the bullets exactly who it is. And knowing that information you have already made the fight of flight call.
You're running a mental clock on how the enemy team Ults are looking. Putting pressure on the more lethal characters in hopes they're use a Ult in a poor situation. You're trying to force the enemy team to split up so that you can attack them without a healer. You can glance at the clock and know that you've got 3 more solid attempts at caping the objective before the round is over. You know that even though you've killed 4 of the enemy team members, you're hesitating to kill the 5th simply because it would force more time out of them to regroup later on.
Map geometry is second nature at this point, as is damage intake. You step out of a door and get hit from 10 o'clock. Not only do you know almost exactly where the enemy is shooting you, but you can tell from the pacing of the bullets exactly who it is. And knowing that information you have already made the fight of flight call.
You're running a mental clock on how the enemy team Ults are looking. Putting pressure on the more lethal characters in hopes they're use a Ult in a poor situation. You're trying to force the enemy team to split up so that you can attack them without a healer. You can glance at the clock and know that you've got 3 more solid attempts at caping the objective before the round is over. You know that even though you've killed 4 of the enemy team members, you're hesitating to kill the 5th simply because it would force more time out of them to regroup later on.
Obviously there are more elements at play here, but I feel like this is a decent summary of the different levels of skill.
Incendiary
Banned
I think I understand what you're saying, but if I don't this question won't make any sense: So how does what Junkrat is good at (deterring teamfights) make him worse than a character who is centered around getting a pick at the beginning of a teamfight (i.e. Roadhog's hook)? Aren't both essentially accomplishing the same thing - making the fight 6v5 or 6v4?
Is it just that (for instance) Roadhog has a kit that can still participate in the fight after his hook, while Junkrat's kit is primarily based around not having a teamfight at all, so it leaves him less options?
I'm PolluxOil on PSN.
Your second sentence is more or less true. Also, Roadhog's tools are just better at stopping fights before they start. Basically, Junkrat's deterrent is extremely limited space wise, where something like Roadhog's isn't. That's the general difference. Other than that, yeah whenever a teamfight happens RH can deal lots of damage and has hook/heal + a good ult too.
Here's a better example: Torbjorn. Torb's teamfighting is kinda ass too and requires set up, but why is he used a bit more? His set up will /always/ result in damage and ult charge at some minimum. It will always at least require attention. He will almost always prevent damage via armor, which is important for team fights. He will always be able to shotgun tanks with his M2. To top it all off, molten core is a stupidly strong ult that can instantly end a teamfight. He's actually a lot similar to Junkrat, but since all of his stuff is for sure going to impact a teamfight at least in a marginal way, he can get some use.
Junkrat has like none of that unfortunately :T I've played with and against Chro the Junkrat god himself and I'm thoroughly unimpressed by his impact. He's good enough to murder people with mechanics though, which is something in soloq that gets you mad far. But, after peeping his stats and playing with him I think even he knows he's not having nearly as much impact as he could with just about any other character.
Man when I nano an ultless hero they get mad at me. Even though Ana gets ult like so fast. Would you say identifying what hero's are key to the next team fight is kinda on the same lines as what you are saying? Like trying to keep zarya with grav alive or identifying what ults enemy team has and eliminating them asap?
Yeah, that's the basic idea. What really matters is the execution of the fight. Like can you identify what you're trying to do, set it up, and follow it through while dealing with the reactions of the enemy team?
it gets pretty hard but is totally worth it
I think they just don't expect it.
Roxkis_ii
Member
Forgive me if this was mentioned already, but are there any strategies against a Reinhart+Mercy+bastion combo?
It doesn't seem like I can get a team to survive long enough to even get Rein's shield down to begin to even do damage to a double pocketed bastion on defence.
Btw, I don't even have an adjective for how weak this bastion team comp meta is.
The b his/her name is keep lowercase out of disrespect.
It doesn't seem like I can get a team to survive long enough to even get Rein's shield down to begin to even do damage to a double pocketed bastion on defence.
Btw, I don't even have an adjective for how weak this bastion team comp meta is.
The b his/her name is keep lowercase out of disrespect.
1v1 me breh
Even when I tell them I want to on mic they are like no I don't have ult. Then when I die they get ult and use it immedietly. I come back and they tell me to save it for their next ult and I just sit on it for half a game.
Whoever can kill the most Lucio bots in 2 minutes with Mccree.
EMP will pretty much destroy that set up.
Wonder if Orisa and Reinhardt are used together a lot then would Junkrat be used a bit to break barriers?
We can do that, 1 on eu and 1 on na
Awe yeah. Sym only.
Winston
Get jebaited into my carwash
Kaffeemann
Banned
That was fast:
[PC] Overwatch Patch Notes – March 3, 2017
[PC] Overwatch Patch Notes – March 3, 2017
That was a quick bastion patch. My god... he was, and still is, OP.
- Overwatch Central: What Ultimates Kill New Bastion - PTR Comparison.
Tracer ult is good to use again.
Tracer ult is good to use again.
D.va DM and Winston crit box also fixed. FAST WORK
Great to see they were so quick about it. I didn't know they had changed the damage reduction ceiling to 50% on PTR. Must've missed it with all the new hero stuff yesterday.
Bastion should be fine to face now.
Dead Prince
Banned
support players in general.
She's hilarious but I'm just glad I don't play with headphones, LOL
Vault Dweller 111
Member
We all may argue about a lot of things in this game, but that's one universal truth we all agree with
Glad to see the patch hit so soon.
I'm fine with the nanoboosts without ult sometimes. The more I play healers, the more I understand how fast they build ult. That's why it's really not a big deal to do small resses with Mercy unless a big ult fight is coming up, because she'll probably have it back like in like 30-60 seconds anyway.
If I'm Soldier and I just get nanoboost without Visor, I just do what Ana says and just get in there. Not a big deal to use it without visor. I'm just a bit tankier and pack more of a punch, and sometimes I can capitalize on that.
I'm not sure I follow the talk about macro. From what I've seen, a lot of attack strategies tend to boil down to some form of "Neutralize/kill key threats > clean up rest of team thanks to team size advantage". That's how the priority usually goes. You don't do it the other way around by trying to get picks while ignoring key threats. But a Soldier uncontested on high ground *is* a key threat in many cases, so I don't understand the logic of ignoring Soldier on high ground to try to get picks below him, which is the very ground he's trying to cover. That's a disadvantageous way to start the fight unless you have some way to beat the odds.
Having said that, if you somehow do manage to get those three kills on low ground despite a Soldier on high ground, the Soldier is likely to die soon too due to the man advantage. Same goes for if you manage to kill the enemy Rein + 3 people with a nanoboost. The remaining Soldier can probably harass and stall for a bit, but his days are likely numbered.
As for Bastion + people pocketing him, that depends on your team's capabilities, I think. The best way to go about it would be to kill the Mercy first, but obviously the Mercy will be trying to stay somewhere safe while she pockets Bastion. And sometimes it's possible to burst down the Bastion hard enough to kill him before Mercy can save him. More coordinated teams can probably just dive the shit out of a Bastion nest, but you probably don't have that in pugs.
I'm fine with the nanoboosts without ult sometimes. The more I play healers, the more I understand how fast they build ult. That's why it's really not a big deal to do small resses with Mercy unless a big ult fight is coming up, because she'll probably have it back like in like 30-60 seconds anyway.
If I'm Soldier and I just get nanoboost without Visor, I just do what Ana says and just get in there. Not a big deal to use it without visor. I'm just a bit tankier and pack more of a punch, and sometimes I can capitalize on that.
I'm not sure I follow the talk about macro. From what I've seen, a lot of attack strategies tend to boil down to some form of "Neutralize/kill key threats > clean up rest of team thanks to team size advantage". That's how the priority usually goes. You don't do it the other way around by trying to get picks while ignoring key threats. But a Soldier uncontested on high ground *is* a key threat in many cases, so I don't understand the logic of ignoring Soldier on high ground to try to get picks below him, which is the very ground he's trying to cover. That's a disadvantageous way to start the fight unless you have some way to beat the odds.
Having said that, if you somehow do manage to get those three kills on low ground despite a Soldier on high ground, the Soldier is likely to die soon too due to the man advantage. Same goes for if you manage to kill the enemy Rein + 3 people with a nanoboost. The remaining Soldier can probably harass and stall for a bit, but his days are likely numbered.
As for Bastion + people pocketing him, that depends on your team's capabilities, I think. The best way to go about it would be to kill the Mercy first, but obviously the Mercy will be trying to stay somewhere safe while she pockets Bastion. And sometimes it's possible to burst down the Bastion hard enough to kill him before Mercy can save him. More coordinated teams can probably just dive the shit out of a Bastion nest, but you probably don't have that in pugs.
Newtype-001
Member
ive lost or drawn every single game ive played ana.
i played like 8 games with her
0% wr so far.
wtfffffffffffff
mayb im having the worst luck with team mates (last match had widow main while a winston kept jumping her) or im actually sucking hard with her now for some reason.
feelsobad
i played like 8 games with her
0% wr so far.
wtfffffffffffff
mayb im having the worst luck with team mates (last match had widow main while a winston kept jumping her) or im actually sucking hard with her now for some reason.
feelsobad
Oh her? I've played with her. Can confirm the tilt.
I do
No one here on GAF is immune to tilt. It's how you are when you're not upset is how I determine whether I like you or not
CertifiedFP
Member
Hmm, has it occurred to anyone that Orisa might be perfect for Boss customs?
Be happy I don't use mic cuz when I tilt, I curse a lot.
Good, because those were like 90% of my nanos.
You in love with the Mercy buff as much as I am?
Ah that's why you boostio. It never made sense to me until now.
Since the buff was initially announced, I was keeping mental note of all the times it would have saved me on live server. It was a ridiculous amount.
I've already felt it pay off in a few games. Between this recent buff and her faster regenerating HP, she feels a lot better to play than she did in Season 2.
I think she still needs another small utility buff and maybe an ult charge nerf to compensate.
Incendiary
Banned
I dunno, Owzers seems like a pretty happy guy. 🤔
I hate it when I tilt while I'm playing with other GAF people because I turn into a whiner when I tilt. "Guys we need to group up. Guys we need to take out that Pharah. Guuuuyyyhhhhssssssssarrrggghhhhh."
Man, dunno how many people he had to drag down to get to that SR. Throwing with a 6stack is 1 thing but throwing with innocent randoms is just inhuman.
I think back in Season1 and early Season 2?? you get little SR from grouping up together but think its all sorted out now.
Well some people tend to think they should go all out when they get nano'ed (like me) when in fact it sometime its not required? Its kinda psychological disrupt their play rhythm.
Is there even an option to set skirmish ffa? or it have to be A vs B team only? Would like to get into a ultless/no ability mccree ffa for some shootout practice lol.
Lol, you guys calling her out. She don't read gaf does she?
Anyone mind posting the patch note here. battle.net is block at my work, so can't read it there.
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