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Overwatch |OT8| Our love will last Pharah-ver
- Thread starter ExMachina
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Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I'm talking about the (now reverted) zen discord buff.
Barely heard a peep about it compared to ana.
Also the winston buff is still super scary.
Barely heard a peep about it compared to ana.
Also the winston buff is still super scary.
Some good things about antiheal:
There's no "real" counterplay to healing as it is in the current game which is actually a huge problem. Something does exist to stop that which is awesome.
It feels good to use and is very clearly communicated to even the newest players somethign is going on that is more than just a numbers change. It's interesting and easy to wrap your head around.
Some bad things about healing nade:
The best counterplay to healing in the game is attached exclusively to the best healer in the game. What.?
In it's current iteration it feels like shit to get hit by more than it should. You want things to exist that trigger an "oh shit" moment where players need to make a quick decision how to handle it. It's interesting on both sides. Losing out 60HP is a ton on a large AoE, and in most situations the 60HP chunk is enough to get them to bail.
Why having antiheal at % is bad:
The clear communication of how the ability works is gone. The powerful and good feeling of using it goes down by a lot because:
Now a new counterplay ot the nade is just to heal nuke whatever got hit by it, and we all know even if you make that thing take away 90% of healing another Ana + a Zen orb would keep a 200HP hero alive through fights still. Counterplay to nade already exists, making counterplay boil down to "hurr durr have more numbers" is shit. This is why barriers are kinda shitty atm btw.
That's just how I see it. I think taking the damage from heal nade down to 30 is the right move still rather than fucking with the antiheal itself. The 100HP heal burst can also use a tweak, but I get that self heal is important. I saw an idea to make the 100HP tick up over a second or so rather than be at 100. I think that might work? Only real problem I have with that is it feels less "bursty" and impactful against things like ults.
The current userbase needs to be weened off her rather than just have her swing around and Zen come out a monster because they don't know any better. I fully expect her to actually eat a grenade nerf at some point, but doing it right when they are buffing Mercy/Zen and to an extent Winston is kinda eh.
There's no "real" counterplay to healing as it is in the current game which is actually a huge problem. Something does exist to stop that which is awesome.
It feels good to use and is very clearly communicated to even the newest players somethign is going on that is more than just a numbers change. It's interesting and easy to wrap your head around.
Some bad things about healing nade:
The best counterplay to healing in the game is attached exclusively to the best healer in the game. What.?
In it's current iteration it feels like shit to get hit by more than it should. You want things to exist that trigger an "oh shit" moment where players need to make a quick decision how to handle it. It's interesting on both sides. Losing out 60HP is a ton on a large AoE, and in most situations the 60HP chunk is enough to get them to bail.
Why having antiheal at % is bad:
The clear communication of how the ability works is gone. The powerful and good feeling of using it goes down by a lot because:
Now a new counterplay ot the nade is just to heal nuke whatever got hit by it, and we all know even if you make that thing take away 90% of healing another Ana + a Zen orb would keep a 200HP hero alive through fights still. Counterplay to nade already exists, making counterplay boil down to "hurr durr have more numbers" is shit. This is why barriers are kinda shitty atm btw.
That's just how I see it. I think taking the damage from heal nade down to 30 is the right move still rather than fucking with the antiheal itself. The 100HP heal burst can also use a tweak, but I get that self heal is important. I saw an idea to make the 100HP tick up over a second or so rather than be at 100. I think that might work? Only real problem I have with that is it feels less "bursty" and impactful against things like ults.
The current userbase needs to be weened off her rather than just have her swing around and Zen come out a monster because they don't know any better. I fully expect her to actually eat a grenade nerf at some point, but doing it right when they are buffing Mercy/Zen and to an extent Winston is kinda eh.
Red Arremer
Member
Could make it so that the nade's heal burst is variable depending of if Ana uses it on herself or an ally - with herself getting healed the full 100 and the allies 50 or whatever.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Do you need ana to feel more impactful than she already is though? 
I was fine with the nade nerf honestly. She should be easier than she is now to be picked off by flankers. Even with the nerf the nade is still a powerful anti-flank tool, and she still has sleep dart.
I was fine with the nade nerf honestly. She should be easier than she is now to be picked off by flankers. Even with the nerf the nade is still a powerful anti-flank tool, and she still has sleep dart.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Honestly would take a nade nerf if i can get her old damage back.
I mean, if you take away the antiheal and her damage (her gun damage def needs to go away) I think she'll feel shitty to anybody not already p good with the hero. It sounds kind of stupid, but you want some things in your game to naturally feel strong like her. Note feel strong, not exactly be strong. She's def too good, but yeah.
I def think the damage nerf to the nade was fine, and even the healing nerf to it was fine too. Taking away the "oh shit" button from people at this point though will just cause mass people to drop her due to perception that it feels 100x worse even if it's still totally viable.
To be blunt about it, you want your scrubs to go "oh this isn't so bad" when it comes time to cut a character's legs off so they at least try to use it for awhile rather than drop it en masse.
I def think the damage nerf to the nade was fine, and even the healing nerf to it was fine too. Taking away the "oh shit" button from people at this point though will just cause mass people to drop her due to perception that it feels 100x worse even if it's still totally viable.
To be blunt about it, you want your scrubs to go "oh this isn't so bad" when it comes time to cut a character's legs off so they at least try to use it for awhile rather than drop it en masse.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Like with dva mains. >_> <_<
Eh, I like her "Siberian" skins with her big furry hat and such. I just think it's "epic" level instead of "legendary". But yeah the others are not good. Thing is, I'm not even sure what they could give her that would be better.
Terareflection
Member
I think it's a good idea but not wth that damage.
Make Biotic Grenade heal for 100, anti-heal, and do no damage at all. That way Ana can't burst down a Genji in 2 shots and a nade like before or wombo combo a sleeping Tracer with shot, nade, and melee. I still feel Ana's damage should be closer to 65-70 though. Can't necessarily 3 shot anymore, but she can support fire.
They did. Right now her only nerf is to damage.
Honestly, I wish they'd just had waited more than, like, a day before deciding it was too much. PTR already has a difficult time testing things accurately but there is no way they could have accurately assessed Ana in 24 hours that people played her on there in that condition.
Hazardous Metal
Member
I guess I'm the only one that thinks Zarya's Christmas skin is awesome. The digital camo arms and the frosted tipped hair is cool imo.
Garrett Hawke
Member
It is
Newtype-001
Member
It's true.
I am confused and scared.
Gimme my dmg back 😣😣😣
I am confused and scared.
Gimme my dmg back 😣😣😣
I don't know why they couldn't keep the nerfs and just make the grenade heal Ana for 100 instead of 50. It's not like they have a problem creating rules for individual characters. I'd actually prefer the grenade nerf than the damage nerf because I really don't want Pharah to become completely dominant until master level where the McCrees are actually good.
TheLetdown
Member
Saying it again, if Blizz allowed me to move just my shit over (skins, emotes, etc) from PS4 to PC, I'd buy the PC version in a heartbeat.
Even as is, I almost want to do it just to play the different game feel. Particularly with McCree. I used to only run Deagle in CS for a while. His gun's timing feels pretty close.
Even as is, I almost want to do it just to play the different game feel. Particularly with McCree. I used to only run Deagle in CS for a while. His gun's timing feels pretty close.
Garrett Hawke
Member
It would fit the lore of where McCree learned to use it, har har. "That ingrate"
I think it's BS they don't do this because there's not a real practical way to get some things again. Any holiday skins, you have to wait a year before you can get them again (assuming they make them available in again in the first place).
Shake Appeal
Member
I played PTR Sombra a little yesterday, and a 4s timer on transloc is kinda nutty. Her mobility is top-tier now.
I still think it's the wrong to focus on, but she has by far the best chase in the game now. You basically cannot ever overextend if you're halfway smart.
And this is glorious: https://gfycat.com/TerrificAromaticBufeo
I still think it's the wrong to focus on, but she has by far the best chase in the game now. You basically cannot ever overextend if you're halfway smart.
And this is glorious: https://gfycat.com/TerrificAromaticBufeo
Paltheos
Member
I hopped on PTR last night to try out Zen and Ana before their buffs/nerfs are reverted. New Discord is satisfying, and Ana still feels pretty strong although the toned down nerf is... probably for the best. The concern that she provides too much utility to also be able to take flankers in a 1v1 fight and contribute to fights in general has some merit imo. Toning down the rifle alone seems like a smart move across all skill levels. I had been a little concerned about how that particular grenade nerf would have been received at lower levels of the game. Most of it might have been ok, but the killer for the idea is Ana herself being limited to 50 self heal every 10 seconds. Maybe somewhere in the middle is best for all this, and I'm def. open to another grenade nerf, but I think incremental changes are the best, so just the rifle for now is fine.
Edit: I'm gonna miss this Zen. Shame I only got to try him for a few games. I'll test out no spread alt-fire though!
Edit: I'm gonna miss this Zen. Shame I only got to try him for a few games. I'll test out no spread alt-fire though!
NeoRaider
Member
Still needs at least 20 sec. Translocator timer. I am not sure why are they pretending like that's not the problem at all.
Garrett Hawke
Member
i feel like increasing that would encourage the sort of flaky sombra play that has a limit on how useful it is
seems like they want her to be more aggressive, what with putting it on 4 secs
Shake Appeal
Member
I don't feel that's an issue at all. In fact, I think the 15s is pretty finely balanced to let you do one thing with impact (key pick, key hack) before bailing. 20s would let me gank both healers semi-frequently.
Sombra's biggest problem continues to be that she requires a high level of coordination and teamwork, and she's still, at heart, an ult bot.
But the combination of all her buffs to date puts her in a pretty fun place in terms of being able to rapidly juggle cooldowns. It's just always going to be hard to pick her over a Tracer or Genji in terms of direct, precise burst damage against key targets.
Oh and hack is still kinda middling against a bunch of heroes with good left-clicks. It could still use some additional visual/HUD distortion effect that makes it a little scarier for the likes of Hanzo or McCree.
Karsticles
Member
Maybe hacking people should prevent them from being healed.
Primary fire.
The superior paladins already gave reaper fan the hammer
not sure if this was posted: https://twitter.com/lukekarmali/status/839748205415923712
symmetra is autistic. not really shocking i guess.
symmetra is autistic. not really shocking i guess.
Yeah Sombra is really good against most of the popular picks. The mind games is great. Start hacking a zarya and she'll pop her bubble getting herself no charge while you still have your hack ready.
I hope she will be a good counter for dive. I suspect she will. Also good against tank heavy lineups and in dive comp. Very flexible.
It makes me wanna learn Sombra more, that's for sure. I like her kit but her previous CDs were annoying and it seems all these minor changes will help my own playstyle more.
I'm talking about having a 6-stack with the Gaffers who haven't done placements at all.
I'm talking about having a 6-stack with the Gaffers who haven't done placements at all.
The confirmation is nice to hear. Even now there was still debate as to what the 'spectrum' line meant.
Bumbletron
Member
Sorry to anyone who watched last night, I was playing like shit for a lot of it. So mb on that lol.
link me
Garrett Hawke
Member
This is awesome, but what's the source? Twitter says "Luke" but letter says "Samuel".
I hope it's real tho.
Bumbletron
Member
Karsticles
Member
How in the world is Symmetra autistic?
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