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[LucidMomentum]

And everytime you get hooked and OHK'd, it feels good, cause its a skillshot, right?

When it's this new hook? Yeah. Old hook? Less so. I could see the Hog, jump out of view of him but still see the hook, and would get pulled.

Now that doesn't happen.

But even if you have 500 health a good team will focus whoever gets hooked.

Single target stun / grab is such a good ability for a game like this. Which is why Rein is such a good pick because he helps prevent that.

 

[FatCatAttack]

Well done Blizzard you actually managed to make me hate my GoTY for 2016 fora few hours because CTF is honestly the first time I have not enjoyed playing overwatch. I played about 20 games and every damn game is a draw because everyone is running a Torb, Symmetra and Bastion. I mean wtf some teams don't even try to get the flag and just camp with full on defense. Why?

Why did Blizzard think this was a good idea? Surely putting 1 flag in the center of the map would have been a far better decision as it would most likely never result in spawn camps and draws.

This mode is terrible.

I'm shocked so many people hate it. I love the hell out of it. It's basically a full on skirmish mode queue that I always wanted. Just stop caring about the objective and focus on killing people. The flag caps will happen naturally over time.

 

[IbukiLordSA]

Just give up. Stop playing if you are not enjoying it. It will only frustrate you.

They say it's just for "fun" and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Oh I certainly did but I wanted to see just how skewed the mode was. I know they made it for fun but honestly can anyone give me one reason as to what makes spawn camping and waiting 6 minutes for a match to end in a draw "fun".

I have moved on now, just wanted to voice my distaste at this poorly implemented mode, especially after the very enjoyable PvE mode we got for Halloween.

 

[NeoRaider]

Oh I certainly did but I wanted to see just how skewed the mode was. I know they made it for fun but honestly can anyone give me one reason as to what makes spawn camping and waiting 6 minutes for a match to end in a draw "fun".

I have moved on now, just wanted to voice my distaste at this poorly implemented mode, especially after the very enjoyable PvE mode we got for Halloween.

I only read negative things about it but my experience is little different. Had few draws today and lost few games but i also won a lot, mostly solo q. I was kinda surprised tbh. And don't find the mode to be THAT bad. I mean sure it's far from perfect but still... i had some fun. But it looks like ppl hate it a lot, idk. :/

 

[exYle]

I see now we're going to be due for a Roadhog nerf.

And the circle of nerf/buffs will soldier on. Yay.

I think increasing the cooldown after a landed hook is a reasonable nerf. Say, 8 seconds if you successfully hook someone. This way bad Roadhogs aren't being punished, but good Hogs are being reined in.

 

[Nuno Pinto]

I actually liked some of the matches of CTF we had yesterday. There was a 6-stack that destroyed us two times in a row with a pretty decent strat, that we used later (improved IMO) to guarantee some really fast wins.

They had a Rein/D.Va/Lucio/Zen/Tracer rushing the enemy point, while a widow was guarding their own. They basically didn't care about defense, just focused on capturing the enemy flag. Rein covered the front while the D.Va with defense matrix up or tracer got the flag. They also used both D.Va's and Zen ult at the same time when they had it.

We used something similar later with success. We had a Torb or Sym guarding the point while we storm the enemy with a Ana/Rein/D.Va/Winston/S76. Winston went first to destroy the Sym's turrets (because there's always one lol) and serve as a distraction while the rest got the flag. There was one time when I nanoboosted biscuit when he got the flag playing as Winston and then he ulted... try stopping that lol

This way the games as much faster and interesting, even if you lose. What's the point in playing defensively and get a draw? Just a waste of time.

But this is basically impossible to do playing with randoms, in this mode 6-stack is definitely the way to go.

 

[Anne]

I think increasing the cooldown after a landed hook is a reasonable nerf. Say, 8 seconds if you successfully hook someone. This way bad Roadhogs aren't being punished, but good Hogs are being reined in.

If anything it should be the opposite. Whiffing hook should be way more punished than it is.

If you are bad at RH you should be punished tbh. I generally don't like making already simple things easier because people can't be bothered to learn to do it. With how they changed hook I can be kinda okay with it because the skill involved with one shotting was really esoteric nonsense at some point and having good reactions when hook bugged out. Even then it rubs me the wrong way.

Idk call me old fashioned for thinking somebody whiffing a skill shot should be appropriately punished at the very least.

 

[DevilDog]

Every six seconds the gods roll the dice on whether or not you'll get hooked or not.

Hook should never OHK, bringing you close to the enemy team is more than enough punishment. And make that shit have 17 second cooldown.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

whiffed hooks should have a 10 second CD at minimum. there's no reason for it to be just 6 seconds.

 

[Nuno Pinto]

I still think the hook's range is ridiculous. 20m really?

See that group of enemies far ahead? Let me see if I can "fish" something.

 

[NeoRaider]

whiffed hooks should have a 10 second CD at minimum. there's no reason for it to be just 6 seconds.

I still think the hook's range is ridiculous. 20m really?

See that group of enemies far ahead? Let me see if I can "fish" something.

So true. All of this.
Increase hook cooldown to 10-12 instead of 6. And lower hook range. Rn. it's too much.

So many times i am literally shook when Hog catches me from the other side and i can barely see him.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I want the ability to rate players like at the end of MOBA matches.

 

[Fancolors]

Did they change hit registration? I feel like I was hitting way more stuff with Soldier, but my tracking is the same as always.

 

[DevilDog]

I want the ability to rate players like at the end of MOBA matches.

In BETA you could do that, it was later removed. What purpose could it serve?

 

[Magnus]

What's the origin of the thread title?

 

[Data West]

I mean the thing about Pudge is you pull someone in and your team gangbangs them and kills them

Hog doesn't even need the team.

 

[DevilDog]

What's the origin of the thread title?

4 tanks 2 supports meta.

I mean the thing about Pudge is you pull someone in and your team gangbangs them and kills them

Hog doesn't even need the team.

Exactly.

 

[NeoRaider]

What's the origin of the thread title?

I feel like you already asked this same question and got the answers or it was someone else??

 

[Ghost is Bad]

I want the ability to rate players like at the end of MOBA matches.

nah that just encourages you to be an asshole

on second thought i agree.

 

[Ramirez]

I need a PSA on console informing people DVA is garbage, because 99% of them haven't got the memo.

 

[Data West]

I need a PSA on console informing people DVA is garbage, because 99% of them haven't got the memo.

people still play junkrat

 

[Ghost is Bad]

people still play torb too. they ain't never getting off dva.

 

[Skii]

people still play torb too. they ain't never getting off dva.

Torb is good though

 

[Rickenslacker]

I don't know what the deal is with Roadhog and y'all right now, but there's a defense towards Reinhardt here so I guess there's a preference towards defensive play and not offense. It's a team game first and foremost and there are lots of opportunities for counter-play on the hook even after it's been connected. When I see an enemy Hog I just focus down on them hard the moment I see anyone hooked, or use something to block the shot if I have the ability to do that. The way this thread is discussing it is basically pretending that pressing shift randomly rolls the die to instantly kill a member of the opposing team. I find it easy to zone and deal with with most of the offense heroes, and with the tanks I play I have an opportunity to do something after being hit with the combo. Ana's whole kit is basically designed around harassing Roadhog big time, and she doesn't seem to be losing popularity any time soon.

I find ults in general more nonsense and frustrating to play around where the only real layer they add is the hazy intuition that oh, this character might have ult so be ready for something stupid to happen at a moment's notice.

 

[ohkay]

It's because OHKOs don't feel fair

 

[Owzers]

people still play junkrat

Can't quit a character after they get a new skin, junkrat's is pretty good.

 

[ScottSullivan]

Every six seconds the gods roll the dice on whether or not you'll get hooked or not.

Hook should never OHK, bringing you close to the enemy team is more than enough punishment. And make that shit have 17 second cooldown.

Sounds like someone is really shitty at baiting/dodging hooks

 

[Wyndstryker]

It's amazing how salty people get in QP.

Our team comp is garbage, and someone goes full troll mode just cause we said it's QP and no one takes comp picks seriously. Then he just trolls people saying it's QP and no one plays seriously. He went mei and just walled everyone.

I didn't care but wow at the salt levels some people get. I just wanted my loot box lol.

 

[TrueBlue]

Yeah that's right, leave me - a Zenyatta to defend the flag alone.

Fucking hell. It's not difficult!

 

[Rickenslacker]

I got the event Roadhog skin in my last arcade box, so that's pretty swell.

 

[Anne]

.

Considering hook has been a driving force in the metagame and a match decider at every level of the game up to pro level, I would think you're the one being a bit out of touch.

Reinhardt is also problematic in a different way. I don't have good answers for that situation.

 

[DevilDog]

It's because OHKOs don't feel fair

They're not. Not when they are this easy to get. God forbid they make killing enemies demand some skill.

At least in games like cs go getting one shooted with a deagle feels fair. And if you miss you get punished hard.

 

[SmackAttack]

Played my first game of CTF and man this Brawl is crazy. We had a Sym playing defense while I (Lucio), D.Va, and Junkrat all just went for the flag. Things started rough but we quickly ended it 3-0.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Considering hook has been a driving force in the metagame and a match decider at every level of the game up to pro level, I would think you're the one being a bit out of touch.

Reinhardt is also problematic in a different way. I don't have good answers for that situation.

He's an initiator. Get a pick, push your advantage -- which is preferable to me over potshots and healing until two teams ult spam one another and the better ults win. In a game around team play, if you're getting picked off for free then something went wrong along the way.

At least in games like cs go getting one shooted with a deagle feels fair. And if you miss you get punished hard.

What about getting AWP'd from across the map because you got tagged in the shoulder.

 

[DevilDog]

What about getting AWP'd from across the map because you got tagged in the shoulder.

You're at fault for engaging a sniper across the map. There are always other routes to take, and you almost always know where the sniper is going to be.

That is also why grenades exist.

 

[Karsticles]

Depends. a 200 HP with 75 shields should still get one shot. Pre-patch RH was still one shotting 200 HP nanoboosted heroes, which effectively had 300 health. I'm too lazy to do the math on armor, but I'm p sure he could blow through that before too. Mei/Reaper might survive? Idk. With both shields + armor I think people can survive a shot, but it's not lik eit matters because anything hooked is getting hit by more than just RH.

The entire point about the one shot really doesn't matter to me because anything that gets hooked is still CCed the entire duration of the thing and plopped directly into the enemy team. The only time it does matter is if Roadhog is alone for some reason, and even then it's not that diff from before unless your name is Zarya.

It matters the most when Roadhog is alone, and Roadhog is alone the most at lower ratings. I've been carrying hard consistently with Roadhog because he's hardy, I can kill things alone, and he can heal, so I'm 100% independent of my team if I play careful.

 

[Rickenslacker]

You're at fault for engaging a sniper across the map. There are always other routes to take, and you almost always know where the sniper is going to be.

That is also why grenades exist.

So it's okay to be punished for being in the map-wide engagement zone of the AWP, and grenades exist to deter them, but the same isn't true for the range of engagement for Roadhog and the myriad of abilities that also disrupt him?

 

[orthodoxy1095]

In BETA you could do that, it was later removed. What purpose could it serve?

What's the purpose of it being included on MOBAs? At the very least, it's a way to flag people who purposefully feed or stop participating for the last part of a match.

 

[Skii]

He's an initiator. Get a pick, push your advantage -- which is preferable to me over potshots and healing until two teams ult spam one another and the better ults win. In a game around team play, if you're getting picked off for free then something went wrong along the way.

But Roadhog literally waits until Reinhardt shield breaks and then throws a hook which is basically a guaranteed pick at that point. That's terrible because your team can't really react. Other heroes focused around initiating like Tracer and Genji feel infinitely more fair since you don't get one shotted and have a chance at surviving. And even tanks that get hooked have no chance at surviving because of the position they are pulled to. That's the problem. It not only one shots or deals big damage but it also completely moves someone away from their team. And you can do it every 6 seconds.

 

[cyborg009]

Feels good to win a KOTH game using triple tank and no ana.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

The AWP has a multitude of ways of getting around or just plain obscuring the sightlines of the AWPer, not to mention that it's also an extremely expensive weapon with a low kill payout and extremely costly to lose. Roadhog has 600 HP and the relative safety net of a Reinhardt shield or a Biotic Grenade to fall back on.

 

[Karsticles]

I mean the thing about Pudge is you pull someone in and your team gangbangs them and kills them

Hog doesn't even need the team.

I've only played DotA1 extensively, but Pudge solo kills all the damn time in that game. That's his job until the midgame, and then he initiates and team kills.

I think increasing the cooldown after a landed hook is a reasonable nerf. Say, 8 seconds if you successfully hook someone. This way bad Roadhogs aren't being punished, but good Hogs are being reined in.

whiffed hooks should have a 10 second CD at minimum. there's no reason for it to be just 6 seconds.

I think one concern here is that Roadhog is a pretty shitty hero outside of his hook. If you took hook away, he would be the worst hero in the game without a doubt. So the longer the hook cooldown is, the longer you are condemning someone to play a trash tier hero between hooks, which leads to all sorts of issues.

I still think the hook's range is ridiculous. 20m really?

See that group of enemies far ahead? Let me see if I can "fish" something.

I think the distance is extremely fair - I can still be zoned by smart players, but I have decent reach. Any shorter and I think the hook would be too weak, but any longer and it would be stupid.

So true. All of this.
Increase hook cooldown to 10-12 instead of 6. And lower hook range. Rn. it's too much.

So many times i am literally shook when Hog catches me from the other side and i can barely see him.

If he caught you from the other side and you can barely see him, then you got outplayed. Do you complain when Widowmaker snipes you from out of nowhere? What's the difference? Roadhog is a Widowmaker that sacrifices range, speed, and mobility for health and durability.

 

[Rickenslacker]

But Roadhog literally waits until Reinhardt shield breaks and then throws a hook which is basically a guaranteed pick at that point. That's terrible because your team can't really react. Other heroes focused around initiating like Tracer and Genji feel infinitely more fair because you don't get one shotted because the Reinhardt shield breaks. And even tanks that get hooked have no chance at surviving because of the position they are pulled to. That's the problem. It not only one shots or deals big damage but it also completely moves someone away from their team. And you can do it every 6 seconds.

A guaranteed pick at that point, unless Roadhog gets focused on, or the hook gets walled, or the hooked gets shielded, or if the hook misses, or if the person gets bubbled, or if Roadhog gets slept, or if Roadhog gets stunned, or if Roadhog gets knocked and loses LOS of the target and the hook breaks. Again, I'd gladly take that dynamic over potshots until ults.

Tracer and Genji feel more annoying to me because they work on their own rules with abilities that don't follow standard conventions. Especially in a game where mobility is so important and they happen to be the only two classes aside from Lucio that have a higher base movement speed. If a Genji is on the opposing team I basically don't want to play a DPS period.

The AWP has a multitude of ways of getting around or just plain obscuring the sightlines of the AWPer, not to mention that it's also an extremely expensive weapon with a low kill payout and extremely costly to lose. Roadhog has 600 HP and the relative safety net of a Reinhardt shield or a Biotic Grenade to fall back on.

This goes both ways.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

That's a lot of ifs to consider when all it does is reset the situation to six seconds later.

 

[Rickenslacker]

That's a lot of ifs to consider when all it does is reset the situation to six seconds later.

Unless he dies, which is a considerably longer trek.

This game would be awful without RH's consistent ability to pick. It would just be a bunch of jacking off behind shields and people pot shotting each other, meh.

��

 

[Ramirez]

This game would be awful without RH's consistent ability to pick. It would just be a bunch of jacking off behind shields and people pot shotting each other, meh.

 

[Anne]

He's an initiator. Get a pick, push your advantage -- which is preferable to me over potshots and healing until two teams ult spam one another and the better ults win. In a game around team play, if you're getting picked off for free then something went wrong along the way.

What about getting AWP'd from across the map because you got tagged in the shoulder.

There are a lot of other things in the game that initiate lmao. I don't think you actually like get the risk/reward on how hook works if the only reason you're fine with it is that it makes shit happen.

Using an AWP has tons more risk/reward built into, most importantly the eco investment that you have to build up.

This game would be awful without RH's consistent ability to pick. It would just be a bunch of jacking off behind shields and people pot shotting each other, meh.

Did everybody forget season one? Does Winston just not exist, did Genji and Tracer both get hit by a bus? Is Lucio just not installed on whatever patch you're playing on?

 

[Ghost is Bad]

This game would be awful without RH's consistent ability to pick. It would just be a bunch of jacking off behind shields and people pot shotting each other, meh.

The game was fine before Ana made half of the heroes totally unviable.

 

[DevilDog]

So it's okay to be punished for being in the map-wide engagement zone of the AWP, and grenades exist to deter them, but the same isn't true for the range of engagement for Roadhog and the myriad of abilities that also disrupt him?

No, no it's not. Because first of all cs go engagements look like this:

Nothing else is going on but you and that angle. If you get killed, it's your fault for not aiming correctly. You had a fair chance. Fair.

Here is Overwatch:

A billion angles to watch from, 6 enemy players you need to keep your eye on, their ultimates, their abilities, whether or not they are hitscan or not and how you should position and move yourself, them not flanking and attacking your supports, all while you have to aim for the head, calculating your shots and managing your abilities to survive.

And you know what? Sometimes in all that chaos you take some damage, you get debuffed, you get headshotted, you slightly fall out of position. And then you correct it.

But roadhog doesn't allow for corrections. Every 6 seconds there is a chance you or any of your teammates will die to a random hook flying through your team. It doesn't even have to be aimed, just thrown in the general area.
One shot kills in this game, should demand monumental amounts of skill, outside of ults. A mccree double headshoting me is fair, and wouldn't happen if I moved correctly.

What's the purpose of it being included on MOBAs? At the very least, it's a way to flag people who purposefully feed or stop participating for the last part of a match.

Report them for griefing/inactivity. Nothing will happen to them though, but I won't stop you if it makes you feel better

 

[Skii]

A guaranteed pick at that point, unless Roadhog gets focused on, or the hook gets walled, or the hooked gets shielded, or if the hook misses, or if the person gets bubbled, or if Roadhog gets slept, or if Roadhog gets stunned, or if Roadhog gets knocked and loses LOS of the target and the hook breaks. Again, I'd gladly take that dynamic over potshots until ults.

Tracer and Genji feel more annoying to me because they work on their own rules with abilities that don't follow standard conventions. Especially in a game where mobility is so important and they happen to be the only two classes aside from Lucio that have a higher base movement speed. If a Genji is on the opposing team I basically don't want to play a DPS period.

Yes and even after all of the above, he can throw that hook again in 6 seconds lmao. Even though the CD for half of those things that stop the hook are longer. And you're being really silly if you think it's fair that the whole team has to manage its CD around Roadhog. Around one hero. That's what it's like at high level. You can only do anything when Roadhog's hook is on CD.

The fact that you think Tracer and Genji feel more unfair than Roadhog pretty much explains it all.