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Overwatch |OT9| There is no Cow Hero
- Thread starter antitrop
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Fixed2BeBroken
Member
a Rein is only good as his support. in most of the situations you showed, he was right for being passive because he had no support behind him except for maybe a Zenyatta (which isn't enough support for Rein to go HAM.....
I'd say the only time Rein was not aggressive enough in that clip is one instance, and that's when Ana was behind him and boosted him. He started to try to be aggressive but then went back to shield again for some strange reason. but that was it.
All the other times, he was either by himself, or only had zenyatta helping him....or he made a bad charge and paid the price.
well in that situation i would switch off if no1 want to shoot behind the shield. but then, in the video there are occasions that the rein was moving away from their own mccree and wondering off to the right lol. so i dunno about he not getting support, more like he just holding up his shield and moving around without giving a F to his teammate lol
Newtype-001
Member
If the changes go through im gonna miss being able to have a fighting chance with a symmetra tp after a wipe.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
when I say support, im referring to a primary healer.
I saw mcree just run off instead of trying to take cover behind him, so I'm not going to fault the Rein for that.
also, you don't know what's going on in comms.....like if the main healer was dead and was telling Rein to back up, etc.
<edit> yup, rewatched and a few of those times, ana was just really far up and died fast, and that's when rein would start being passive.
In the first part with Ana behind him he did like nothing to push Jellie off his supports, and then in the last clip where Ana runs in front, what was she thinking? Also in that close of corners in some parts of the footage, Rein especially wrecks.
If I always knew I had a backing Ana heal and Lucio Speed boost, I would always go ham, sadly rarely anyone plays decent support in my ranking.
First clip he just watches Reaper go past him and kill his support. Then Lucio and Zarya push up and he's standing at the choke still. Tbh, his team should've regrouped instead of chasing reaper into our team. Second clip he has both supports but lets me walk past his shield and attack zen so I could grav without having to worry about transcendence. Also whiffs his ult I think. Third one just lets me kill Mccree behind his shield. He had full health and Ana was behind him. Fourth one I'm still confused about. 5th one he doesn't protect his team in the grav and just charges out and dies. Shield was full.
Yeah if you're going to implement the system, why not use the ticks already there?
It is extremely impractical to have someone on the point on Eichenwalde, Volskaya 1st point, Anubis 1st point and Hanamura 2nd point. It's going to be easy to backcap and if you force fights on the point away from chokes, the offensive team is probably going to win.
The first points weren't even the major problems with 2 CP lol. If they want to implement this granular %, they need to do it for the 2nd points in 2 CP only and have first points be determined by the current 1/3 ticks.
We all know they will just throw this on live regardless of what we think.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
Ana wasn't behind him, Ana was jumping around beside him.....and was literally out in the open. To her credit, the Rein starting looking away with his shield instead of keeping focus.....but still, the Ana positioning is bad.
Also not alot he can do to "Jellie" in that instance based on the distance, except charge, which would have left a similar result except possibly charging Jellie's energy. He could have attacked the Reaper, but again, he looked away for a long time for some reason, and I didn't see a reason why he would look away.
First clip, he doesn't watch reaper go past him and kill his support. he actually looks away, which is a fault of his. From what I gather, he later goes in to try to protect his Ana support, which I'm assuming in Comms, Ana was like "yo need help, reaper on me" and the Rein responded while the rest of the team decided to go in. Just bad communication and synergy on that one.
Rein's fault isn't really being passive here, but not paying attention to what's in front of him. I have no idea why he looked away for so long as I saw nothing grabbing his attention in that direction.
Second one, Ana and Zen are out on the front line for some reason at the start of the fight which makes NO sense. you didn't kill his 2 healers. Looked like Genji and a ranged did most of the work on that. you are at no energy until they died and only registered 47 on Zen. He did whiff on ult, and honestly, he should have ulted sooner and his healers would have lived longer (tho genji would have still been able to jump in and ult and Rein wouldn't have alot of control of the outcome of that, but that's another story). So I can kinda concede on the passiveness there.
but honestly, They just seemed disorganized, and again, ana's and Zen's positioning is still really bad through the start of that engagement and at the point where they die.
third one, say what you want, but not only did mcree run out to front line at you, but his positioning is bad overall. yea rein is moving his shield to another side, but I gotta see what's going on on that other side to see the story there.....and also mcree has TERRIBLE positioning regardless of that.
4th clip, already agreed, this one made no sense, and was confusing and is where he is super passive for no apparent reason...as if he never played Rein and is filling in because no one else would play Rein. That's the only logical reason he'd play that situation the way he did. otherwise, it's just bad.
5th clip, he wasn't focused and WAS aggressive by making a terrible charge and paid the price as I said earlier.
my point being, it wasn't really him being super passive, just alot of things combined at once and on first appearance...looks like passiveness.
I'd say he was mostly passive just in that 4th clip and passive in the second. the Rest was just bad play/communication.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
roadhog is an out of position hero. Dps tank that can isolate.
To me it looks like he looks at reaper for a second then turns away. Maybe he didn't see him.
Didn't say I killed both supports though? I said him being passive let me go behind him to attack zen. Did half the damage which if I didn't he might've popped transcendance in response to dragonblade in time.
Yeah Mccree is out of position but Rein walking away doesn't help too. It was just me on the point and he had both supports behind him by the bridge. I think the only ones dead were both hogs at that point.
4th and 5th clips don't need to say much.
He'll always annoy me because he has no counters. You can't do anything to stop a Roadhog that's hard carrying their team. You just kinda have to accept it lol.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
I kinda conceded the second one saying he was a bit passive there cause he could have hammered down earlier to try to protect his backlines. but his healers were still horribly positioned.
The third clip, i just can't give you. are you a Bad Zarya? No, right? Have you ever tried to kill a good Zarya as Rein by himself? It's almost impossible sometimes. Just taking off very little chunks of life. You would have still killed mcree in that clip if he was swinging at you. This is mcree's fault for bad positioning. And again, I don't know what was going on the right to see why he was going towards that direction also..
You can, but you need coordination and a pack mentality. (These things are never happening in solo queue.)
Which is exactly why he should have a hero counter. I can't do anything vs a carrying Roadhog as a Reinhardt player. I can tell my team over comms he's carrying but it wont stop my Roadhog losing every 1v1 with theirs or my team constantly in hook range. Roadhog is in a good state right now but I just wish Reaper was an actual counter to him rather than a slight annoyance.
Zarya can. Also Orisa might be able to? Shield blocks his hook and fortify blocks hook. Can use his alt fire to mess up his aim if quick but probably hard to react in time. Her gun should shred him too.
Well I just used my bubble and was low charge. Could've body blocked and got in my face with the hammer. I'm not gonna kill him with that charge and he has his support behind him while I'm out of position from trying to get to hog in time before he died. Though I would say you're right about it being Mccrees fault.
Also I may have some bias snice I never saw him swing at anyone all match. It seemed like he had his shield up 90% of the time. Barely any firestrikes too.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
the same could be said for a very good Genji, or genji smurf.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
yea, If i saw the whole match, then maybe I'd see more of what you're talking about. I'm just commenting on these clips, and I have my own bias as a Rein player.
there's this fine line you gotta walk between aggression and passiveness....and other's judge harshly whichever side you tend to fall on if they feel you aren't doing the opposite when the opposite isn't what is necessary for the moment.
It's not your job to stop him as a Reinhardt player though. If people need to be babysat, a D.Va should be doing it.
Zarya doesnt really counter him. She can be good vs him but it's not going to stop one that's just carrying his team. He could just hook you if you're causing too many problems. Don't see how Orisa counters Roadhog either.
But McCree, Roadhog and Winston are either very good against him or straight up counter him.
Oooh a rein main. I need a rein main in my life.
You make sure you don't get hooked by staying in the correct position. You can't control your teammates positioning so save them with the bubble. I've had games where you force the hog off with her. One even said after a game that me bubbling his hooks won us the game as he was unable to have an impact.
DevilDog
Member
Today's menu:
Total SR loss *drum noises*
- Ok, 1 leaver or my team, next game.
- Again a leaver, ok
- And again, jeez
- AND AGAIN wtf
- ok fair game now, win.
- Next game, guy's internet is fucking up hard, he can't play, we lose.
- Fair game, we win
- One guy ragequits, ok. Lose again.
- Fair game this time! We lose.
- Last game of the day, one guy is afk for 2 rounds.
Total SR loss *drum noises*
200 SR
17 Seconds
Banned
it's a buff
I just had a game where a Roadhog would consistently run up to us 1v6, kill someone, and then casually walk away. Maybe they didn't notice him, who knows lol. At that point, it's not even a positioning issue, just questionable teammates.
Yeah very questionable. If he does that Ana should just sleep and nade him everytime. Make it 5v6.
Had a very annoying Roadhog on enemy team last night so switched to Sombra and we had a Zen as well. A hacked and discorded Roadhog goes down like a sack of shit - although that does go for most characters I suppose.
finalflame
Banned
Get a Zarya that will bubble all his hooks. Call out his positioning. Focus him down when he gets close. Done.
"Hard carry" does not exist in Overwatch. If you feel the enemy Roadhog is "hard carrying" his team, then your team just isn't adjusting/good enough to take him down.
Communication is an important part of a competitive team-based game. If you call out Roadhog's location as soon as he starts becoming problematic, he can't catch you by surprise, or if he does, he will be punished.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
yea, they CAN be pretty good....but not against an amazing genji or genji smurf
DevilDog
Member
It's is still in the game. When it's out it will stop, I don't understand why you thought it would stop at some point.
Let me add to this
- 3 man stack has a leaver, internet issues
- Torb troll pick because I picked Mercy, didn't even bother asking me to switch
I just expected people to have adapted by now.
RecRoulette
Member
Damn, don't mind what they're doing to Lucio, but getting the area of crossfade reduced by almost 90% is huge. I wonder if they dial that back a bit.
DevilDog
Member
People are adapted to it. It doesn't change the fact its bullshit.
Fixed2BeBroken
Member
yea, Rein and Zarya tend to have a good synergy as duo tanks... plus I'm guessing Zaryas like to feed off energy Rein can afford to give her with bubble/taking damage.
I haven't been enjoying Overwatch much lately, a combination of being sick for awhile and the nerfs/buffs just not doing much for me. I hated triple tank Ana meta and then when that started to fade they brought Bastion back. Even when bastion isn't there, i dunno, i guess it's okay. Lucio adjustment hardly seems like it will get people to pick him less, sounds like a large buff.
Lucio changes don't seem like they will have an impact on his play-rate to me. I guess it depends on if Lucio's new wallride can allow him to stay within range to support a dive. However, he is more of a must pick for tanky/deathball comps because he is essentially the same in that situation just with stronger healing. His buffs are also going to make him tougher to kill, he self-heals faster and has more mobility.
You still have this issue where Lucio is almost always preferred over a Sym (or Sombra if we still consider her a utility support) because their usefulness is stretched incredibly thin. You have way more options to switch main healers than utility supports.
You still have this issue where Lucio is almost always preferred over a Sym (or Sombra if we still consider her a utility support) because their usefulness is stretched incredibly thin. You have way more options to switch main healers than utility supports.
Yeah I play Ana too so Rein is my best friend.
All these "Lucio won't see any changes in play pattern" posts are bizarre to me- he got his AoE healing area cut down to 11% of what it was. (Even less if you consider vertical space.) It's a massive, massive change in how he works as a healer that completely negates his turtly backline style of play.
pretty much, you to be on the front lines to heal your teams and forget about healing teammates that diving.
He won't have to play much differently in a deathball, where everyone stands behind a Reinhardt shield in close proximity to one another.
Its really not that bad lol
Lucio was never staying that close to the front line previously.
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