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[Mrbob]

Well, it has been done before.

The original Unreal had it for cripes sakes.....

Plus Serious Sam. They probably didn't have time to implement it properly is my guess. I really hope we get it as a content download. Doom 2 as well. Obviously they aren't doing as much as Halo 2 but the hardware at the time wasn't nearly as powerful either...!

Don't forget about Doom 3 for Xbox.

 

[unkasa]

I asked that you stick to the gameplay. I'll overlook this.

I think level design is inextricably bound to how the game plays, particularly in this genre. In CoD, for instance, you had to withstand an onslaught of krauts storming a hollowed out apartment complex. You had to run from floor to floor, taking cover behind rubble as you dispatched the wave of unrelenting troops. If the level design is drab and uninvolving, the gameplay suffers.

WHAT SHORTCOMIIIIIIIIIIIINGS ? You wanna be like every other shithead who just says that something sucks? Or do you want to be responsible enough to list examples.

I have listed examples. I don't think I need to provide a lengthy enumeration of each and every flaw in the game. Sure, I can expound upon the points I've made, as I've done above, but I won't touch upon each and every blemish. I've discussed the shoddy level design. Should I discuss scripting? I think the type of scripting witnessed in CoD made for a singular gaming experience like none other. From the beginning of the game, I was grabbed by the cinematic scope of its design, pushed into a deliriously chaotic state of being that stands as one of the most memorable forays I've savored in ages. As long as one leaves the end of a game feeling they had experienced something truly special, I don't see why they should concern themselves with replayability. This is a FPS -- it isn't a puzzle game or sports sim.

You want hardcore scripting, go play Time Crisis, it's really good. Scripting undercuts replay value. Do you only rent?

Honestly, I mostly rent.

It's a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER! You just might SHOOT THINGS. A lot. How much blasting did you do in COD? More or less? What level of blasting are you comfortable with?

Again, like the level design, it's how the action is presented. In CoD it's a beautifully frenetic mess held together by this taut sense of urgency that continues to push you until you've raised that flag over the Reichstag.

Halo was the complete opposite: tired, monotonous, uninspired

 

[ced]

Where can we get one of those ban stick thingies?

 

[Blazing Sword]

I think level design is inextricably bound to how the game plays, particularly in this genre. In CoD, for instance, you had to withstand an onslaught of krauts storming a hollowed out apartment complex. You had to run from floor to floor, taking cover behind rubble as you dispatched the wave of unrelenting troops. If the level design is drab and uninvolving, the gameplay suffers.



I have listed examples. I don't think I need to provide a lengthy enumeration of each and every flaw in the game. Sure, I can expound upon the points I've made, as I've done above, but I won't touch upon each and every blemish. I've discussed the shoddy level design. Should I discuss scripting? I think the type of scripting witnessed in CoD made for a singular gaming experience like none other. From the beginning of the game, I was grabbed by the cinematic scope of its design, pushed into a deliriously chaotic state of being that stands as one of the most memorable forays I've savored in ages. As long as one leaves the end of a game feeling they had experienced something truly special, I don't see why they should concern themselves with replayability. This is a FPS -- it isn't a puzzle game or sports sim.



Honestly, I mostly rent.



Again, like the level design, it's how the action is presented. In CoD it's a beautifully frenetic mess held together by this taut sense of urgency that continues to push you until you've raised that flag over the Reichstag.

Halo was the complete opposite: tired, monotonous, uninspired

*oh, THAT was necessary. Why don't you come back later, Mr. Sword? Much later. -bishoptl*

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

I have listed examples. I don't think I need to provide a lengthy enumeration of each and every flaw in the game.

Okay, let's pretend that I'm the jackass here. Once more, for me, give me a rundown what makes Halo conventional. What makes it like every other FPS that you are too good for?

Just a quick bulleted list, with a full sentence behind it if you can muster. Maybe three things, and I challenge you not to use scripting as one, but, you know I'm not holding the breath.

I said before that I would respect any illustrated point. So far the only point you have illustrated it that you prefer scripting to anything else. I guess I can respect that, especially since you said you mostly rent (COD?). But that's a little shortsighted isn't it? Deciding that any game not scripted minute by minute is outdated? Do think it's harder to script or to write good AI? Which one seems to lend more to game evolution?

So for "Halo = Conventional" we have
- It don't roll mad scripts
- You feel that levels are boring

You have ignored all the truely novel gameplay touches that are either completely new or just handled in a new way. For a list of these, elements, refer to my first post in this thread as a reference.

I do commend you for sticking it out this far, but you've hardly done more than any other hater has done. I'll be impressed and satisfied if you can answer my original inquiry to convention without using broad, example-less slurs. Whether you answer or not, whether you own me or not, I'm checking out of this thread.

I hope we get our Co-Op answer.

 

[Sullichin]

I think Halo was a slightly over rated. Honestly, it's a solid FPS that's a lot of fun to play, has great graphics, a so-so story (sorry, I just didn't find anything special about it). A lot of high profile games these days are over rated, though..

I don't find it a "conventional" FPS. There's a lot in it that seperates it from other games in the genre, but that dosen't nessicarly in my eyes make it a perfect game.

I'm dissapointed about the lack of Co Op over XBL. It would have been so much fun

 

[Black Deatha]

I would argue that what makes Halo so good is that the best encounters are not scripted - the AI is smart enough to respond to new tactics each time.

That was my point, I didnt really flesh the point out well, but it was ment to be a point for Halo and aganst scription. I am not saying I hate scripting, but it's such an old technique it seems when compared to good AI. But in any case I can't belive he used Halo's lack of scription as a major point aganst it.

Whatever maybe if we just ignor unkasa retarded posts he'll go away? because dude, you really are making yourself look a moron.

And I cant even remember if I touched on the actualy origonal topic at hand of this thread, but I gotta say, I am feeling a bit burned by Bungie not saying anything one way or another regarding Live Co-op. I too would love it to be in, and/or a content download, but I dont see it happening. Prove me wrong Bungie

And I dont know, maybe this was announced erlier, but what happend to 720p support? Didn't' Bungie say they trying to put it in? I was really hoping to play this in 720p widescreen glory

~Black Deatha

 

[epmode]

And I dont know, maybe this was announced erlier, but what happend to 720p support? Didn't' Bungie say they trying to put it in? I was really hoping to play this in 720p widescreen glory

they made some kind of annoucement stating that they wanted to put in 720p support, but it would require them to reduce the level of visual effects/polycount, and they didn't think it was worth it.

wait for xbox 2. 720p will likely be standard by then.

 

[Black Deatha]

they made some kind of annoucement stating that they wanted to put in 720p support, but it would require them to reduce the level of visual effects/polycount, and they didn't think it was worth it.

Damnit, I was afraid of something liek that

wait for xbox 2. 720p will likely be standard by then.

True, but I mean that shit fest True Crime had had it on XBox, so I was hoping to see 720p on a game I actualy cared about, oh well, next gen...

~Black Deatha

 

[The Guivre]

I think level design is inextricably bound to how the game plays, particularly in this genre. In CoD, for instance, you had to withstand an onslaught of krauts storming a hollowed out apartment complex. You had to run from floor to floor, taking cover behind rubble as you dispatched the wave of unrelenting troops. If the level design is drab and uninvolving, the gameplay suffers.

Hmmm an onslaught of German soldiers... Ducking behind rubble and walls, waves of unrelenting troops, floor to floor... There's a level of Halo called 'The Library'. Perhaps this is one of your 'repetative' levels. See, in this level you find yourself fighting through this large facility a 'complex' if you will. There are these guys called The Flood, they do this annoying thing where group after group of them runs at you, I think it resembles the way an ocean has waves.. I'm not sure.

The lucky thing is, that throughout this 'complex' if you will there are dividers, little wall sections that jut out providing you a place to hide from enemy fire.. it's like they cover you from a hail of bullets or needles or plasma bolts. And after you fight through enough of these you come to a central elevator that takes you to another set of dividers, like on a different tier of the 'complex' from here on out I'll call these tiers 'floors'. So in order to get through this 'complex' you have to fight 'waves' of enemies 'floor' to 'floor' taking cover behind these dividers.

Wait a second, could it be that I've pretty much just described your experience on CoD? Oh no, wait, I've just described The Library level of Halo! Something else is sort of tingling in the back of my mind. If my memory serves, Halo was out before CoD wasn't it? It's like Halo had this convention of fighting 'floor' to 'floor' through a 'complex' against 'waves' of enemies before CoD even hit shelves. Doesn't that sort of make CoD well, conventional?

 

[Gorey]

Argh. Best friend lives in the midwest and I live on the east coast. I was going to buy another xbox and 2 copies of Halo 2 just so we could play Co-Op on live. Then the rumors about no online co-op, so I figured, oh well, we'll play it over xmas when he comes to visit. Now I find out there's no system link co-op. No doubt I'll still buy a copy for myself, but that's still one less copy of Halo, and one less xbox for the sales charts, all due to lack of co-op features. /shrug.

And IMO, I found CoD to be more exasperating in it's mega-scriptyness than pure dyanimic fun.

 

[Blame!]

I got bored of COD after 3 or 4 hours. It felt so damn repetitive. And with all that "great" level design and awesome scripting, I still felt like I was in the back lot of Universal Studios.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Beware: Do not criticise Halo in thread full of rabid fanboys

 

[dark10x]

Beware: Do not criticise Halo in thread full of rabid fanboys

Correction: Do not criticise Halo if your criticisms are complete.utter.bullshit.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

 

[siamesedreamer]

I cannot express to y'all my supreme disappointment with this news. It is absolutely inexcusable that this game doesn't include online co-op. They've had three years to create this game. I don't care if it comes down to pure technical difficulties. You fucking find a way to make that shit work.

At least a company like Ubi Soft listens to their customers. People bitched and complained because the spy vs. merc was not going to be put back in Splinter Cell 3. But, guess what? They delayed it 5 months to put that shit in the game. That's a company working for you - the gamer.

What's even more inexcusable is the fact that they couldn't even include system link co-op. I'm not playing on my fucking GameCube. Split screen bullshit shouldn't even be an option at this point in this generation.

Fuck Bungie.
Fuck Frank O'Connor.
Fuck Microsoft.
Fuck Bill Gates.
Fuck Halo 2.

 

[DopeyFish]

siamese -

a) The spy vs merc mode was actually announced with Splinter Cell 3, they talked about it at E3. If they ended up saying the delay was because of implementing the mode, they were dicking you around because it was intended to be in there as they said at E3.

b) A whole what? 2 fucking games have online/link co-op? 1 of them is Rainbow Six 3 ( a whole 2 enemies on screen at one time, yay! ) and the other is Doom 3, which is not coming out until next year. Please OH PLEASE tell me how 1 total released game makes it a standard?

c) they DID attempt to implement both but it seems they just couldn't do it. 3 years and they made possibly the best single player game and multiplayer game (console wise for both) and yet you still expect them to do stuff which still hasn't been done by many people at all?

relax. You obviously don't know how difficult doing some things are (ie. synchronization, bandwidth, among other things)

 

[Mrbob]

c) they DID attempt to implement both but it seems they just couldn't do it. 3 years and they made possibly the best single player game and multiplayer game (console wise for both) and yet you still expect them to do stuff which still hasn't been done by many people at all?

Look, you can run all the damage control that you want but the fact is Bungie did not come through on the biggest feature Halo fans wanted in the sequel (Co-Op by being able to use a single screen via Xbox Live! or System Link). It is disappointing, no matter how you slice it. Doesn't take away from the fact that Halo 2 is going to be a fantastic game but Bungie brought this backlash on themselves by constantly teasing the issue for the past year and a half without ever giving a definitive answer.

 

[Mrbob]

:lol

Yeah, some people getting melodramatic over this issue! :lol

I'm still hoping Bungie adds co-op over live! post release.

 

[Mrbob]

Yes! Found it! This is why I feel Bungie hasn't revealed something BIG about the online component yet. I remembered this from awhile back. Here is the article I've been meaning to track down:

http://www.gamerseurope.com/articles/177/prin

This quote I find particularly interesting:

To further your pleasure, as well as the single-player campaign, Halo 2 has support for multiplayer action via split-screen, Xbox "System-Link" and online through Microsoft's Xbox Live service. So whoever you wan to play you should be able to do it one way or another. "We still have the multiplayer game-types that people loved in 'Halo', but we're planning something special for multiplayer in 'Halo 2,'" teased Jaime Griesemer, "Halo 2's" lead designer. "I don't want to ruin the surprise, but imagine the essential 'Halo' single-player experience: pitched battles between the humans and the Covenant, massive vehicle and infantry engagements. Now imagine that every combatant is an actual person playing over Xbox Live!" Squad oriented team play; real time voice chat and extensive community support are the way it's headed. Sounds like a big bandwidth load but hey, since when have Microsoft ever been wrong?

This clearly is in addition to the basic multiplayer modes (Deathmatch, Assualt, Capture the Flag. Those would be the standard online modes.). So I still think something big is planned and we don't know about it yet. However, the more I read that description, the more it sounds like something out of an RTS? The early original version of Halo reborn in some form?

 

[shpankey]

i don't know but unkala getting perpetually owned in here is near legendary :lol

 

[DopeyFish]

This clearly is in addition to the basic multiplayer modes (Deathmatch, Assualt, Capture the Flag. Those would be the standard online modes.). So I still think something big is planned and we don't know about it yet. However, the more I read that description, the more it sounds like something out of an RTS? The early original version of Halo reborn in some form?

i wouldn't really expect that, dude. That was a long, long time ago.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yes! Found it! This is why I feel Bungie hasn't revealed something BIG about the online component yet. I remembered this from awhile back. Here is the article I've been meaning to track down:

http://www.gamerseurope.com/articles/177/prin

This quote I find particularly interesting:



This clearly is in addition to the basic multiplayer modes (Deathmatch, Assualt, Capture the Flag. Those would be the standard online modes.). So I still think something big is planned and we don't know about it yet. However, the more I read that description, the more it sounds like something out of an RTS? The early original version of Halo reborn in some form?

Just to add some fuel to this fire - from the OXM review:

You may be tempted to spend November 9th hosting a Halo 2 system link party or fragging it up on XBox Live, but don't ignore the Campaign mode for long. Complete it on any difficulty level, and your multiplayer will be permanantly enriched. We'll leave the rest of that riddle for you to solve....

- Page 58, last bullet point.

 

[Mrbob]

Hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm, the plot thickens!

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Well, it has been done before.

The original Unreal had it for cripes sakes.....

Plus Serious Sam. They probably didn't have time to implement it properly is my guess. I really hope we get it as a content download. Doom 2 as well. Obviously they aren't doing as much as Halo 2 but the hardware at the time wasn't nearly as powerful either...!

Don't forget about Doom 3 for Xbox.

Only FPS game that I have played online Co-operatively was Serious Sam 2...and it had some Serious Lag Issues.

but then again, so did some of the death matches...so i dont know

but yea...8 times out of 10, i would have a bad experience with co-op on SS2 online cause of serious lag problems....but there were Rare games I found that would be lag free for the most part...but again it was rare, and eventually i just stopped caring about online co-op with that game.

my point?

i dont know....maybe its hard to have it not only implemented, but Implemented well....especially with all the shit that goes on in halo (compared to the other games...)

guess bungie couldnt do it.

oh well....I honestly was probably one of the few who wasnt expecting it just because I didnt think theyd be able to pull it off...cause I just have this preconception that it is a Very difficult task which is why 90 percent (hell maybe more) of FPSs do not have "online co-op"

peace

 

[shpankey]

Unreal (on the PC) had a co-op mode that rocked my world. I remember playing through it like 20 times. Running around with about 4-5 other users through the whole game is just crazy awesome, to have it in Halo 2 would have been the greatest thing in gaming ever.

damn

 

[open_mouth_]

Look, you can run all the damage control that you want but the fact is Bungie did not come through on the biggest feature Halo fans wanted in the sequel (Co-Op by being able to use a single screen via Xbox Live! or System Link). It is disappointing, no matter how you slice it. Doesn't take away from the fact that Halo 2 is going to be a fantastic game but Bungie brought this backlash on themselves by constantly teasing the issue for the past year and a half without ever giving a definitive answer.

That was the biggest feature Halo fans wanted??? That's it?? So if they didn't do anything else and just added better co-op, everyone would be happy?? Maybe they deidn't confirm either way because they weren't sure they could get it in in time. I'm sure they're going to clarify their situation in the coming weeks, but Bungie is not a company that doesn't respect its fans and you all know that as well as I do.

Just be glad it has split screen co-op, at least, which the majority of FPS games leave out completely and hope that they release a live/syslink add-on in the future via DLC.

 

[ced]

I would guess it has to do with how the game loads, and checkpoints the players. Seems like the 2 would have to be sync'd pretty close, and with all the AI, physics and other things going on, its probably near impossible.

Also, unless I read it wrong, OXM said there are zero loads, even the initial chapter loads are gone. Correct me if Im wrong.

 

[Mrbob]

That was the biggest feature Halo fans wanted??? That's it?? So if they didn't do anything else and just added better co-op, everyone would be happy?? Maybe they deidn't confirm either way because they weren't sure they could get it in in time. I'm sure they're going to clarify their situation in the coming weeks, but Bungie is not a company that doesn't respect its fans and you all know that as well as I do.

Ugh. Don't twist my words dude. I didn't say that was the only thing wanted.

Unreal (on the PC) had a co-op mode that rocked my world. I remember playing through it like 20 times. Running around with about 4-5 other users through the whole game is just crazy awesome, to have it in Halo 2 would have been the greatest thing in gaming ever.

damn

Yeah it was great. Funny thing is those Unreal worlds were absolutely massive for its time. Ran great too.

Regarding Serious Sam, I never had a problem with lag. Must have hit some good connections.

 

[dark10x]

Unreal (on the PC) had a co-op mode that rocked my world. I remember playing through it like 20 times. Running around with about 4-5 other users through the whole game is just crazy awesome, to have it in Halo 2 would have been the greatest thing in gaming ever.

damn

The engine is different...

It loads each map, one by one. Halo's engine handles loading quite differently, which is how they are able to offer such large maps on such a limited platform. I wonder if that is part of the reason why system link CO-OP did not show up?

 

[Kobold]

Shouldnt get all riled up over a game. Like it or don't, but i'm not letting my singleplayer experience by talked down by someone with different opinions.

Halo 2 is probably not what you expect it to be when you play anyways. Althought the singleplayer is a tad confusing, I'm most of all dissapointed by the multiplayer, but i'm looking forward to MechAssault 2 which does have a multiplayer mode that is consistant and actually goes somewhere over time. (Galactic Conques-style.) Albeith limited.

Multiplayer where you have to win a 'round' don't cut it anymore for me personally. I'm ready for the massive multiplayer consistancy, only packed in a somewhat more attractive form then currently seen. Massive singleplayer online. No need for human allies, but able to go in together on huge campagnes. Get assigned area's to conquer and explore with a group, getting reinforcements etc. Some massive battles where you are recalled for with other players. Freedom of course to roam to other territories. etc. Obviously that would be awesome in the Halo universe.

 

[siamesedreamer]

relax. You obviously don't know how difficult doing some things are (ie. synchronization, bandwidth, among other things)

OK, I've settled down some and I can buy the technical difficulties online. But, what's the deal with no system link? Surely those same probelms don't exist between 10 ft of Cat5?

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Regarding Serious Sam, I never had a problem with lag. Must have hit some good connections.

for me...everything would be all gravy for like the first 5 minutes then it would all go to hell eventually and im just like WTF!

 

[Blame!]

Siamese Dreamer is a fucking tool. Hey dude, maybe you should, y'know, stick to your principles and boycott Halo 2.

You fucking genius.

 

[dark10x]

OK, I've settled down some and I can buy the technical difficulties online. But, what's the deal with no system link? Surely those same probelms don't exist between 10 ft of Cat5?

It's an engine issue. It has to be.

Nobody has been able to get Halo's engine working with any sort of networked CO-OP play...

Maybe if each section was broken up into an individual map with a defined exit, it would work, but the block loading seems to cause problems for CO-OP...

 

[Chittagong]

Wow, this place is really degrading, unless it's just the fact that it is weekend. Anyhow, I see a bunch of posters whom I do not recognize, posting GameFAQs quality stuff. Uh oh. Maybe this forum was too good for its own good.

 

[SyNapSe]

It's an engine issue. It has to be.

I wonder if it has something to do with the way Halo 1 would "warp" you together all the time. It would even get twisted itself sometimes and warp when you we're crazy close to each other.

For me it isn't a big deal. I probably would have never used it. I can definately see how people who have friends that moved away, etc. would have loved it.

 

[Blame!]

It's an engine issue. It has to be.

Nobody has been able to get Halo's engine working with any sort of networked CO-OP play...

Maybe if each section was broken up into an individual map with a defined exit, it would work, but the block loading seems to cause problems for CO-OP...

I'm sure it's both an engine and a bandwidth problem. Specifically, I bet it has to do with both how many enemies are onscreen (and relaying and sync'ing their info back to the other player) and how the Halo engine was built in the first place.

Is Halo 2 a completely different engine, other than graphics? Has Bungie ever commented on that?

 

[dark10x]

Is Halo 2 a completely different engine, other than graphics? Has Bungie ever commented on that?

It loads level data in the same way, so...

 

[Kon Tiki]

It loads level data in the same way, so...

OMG can i put a halo 1 level in the halo 2 level folder and be able to play it? (seriously)

 

[Blame!]

OMG can i put a halo 1 level in the halo 2 level folder and be able to play it? (seriously)

And how do you plan on loading these levels?

 

[Kon Tiki]

rename the file.

 

[Blame!]

rename the file.

If you do it in singleplayer, I bet the game locks up.

Try it.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Have to wait till i get halo 2

 

[dark10x]

OMG can i put a halo 1 level in the halo 2 level folder and be able to play it? (seriously)

No, the engine handles many things differently...but they approached loading in the same fashion. That doesn't mean the engine is the same...

 

[siamesedreamer]

Siamese Dreamer is a fucking tool.

heh

 

[shpankey]

Siamese Dreamer is a fucking tool. Hey dude, maybe you should, y'know, stick to your principles and boycott Halo 2.

You fucking genius.

Completely uncalled for and an overreaction. Keep this kind of posting at other places.

- respect

 

[Uno Ill Nino]

Blame!, you can eat a dick. Dreamer was obviously pretty annoyed by the news that they're not even including system-link co-op, much less XBOX LIVE co-op. Sorry, but as a huuuuge Halo fan, I agree completely with him. Its something they know the fans were asking for and the least they could have done was lay those rumors to rest when they sprung up. Sitting there silent with your mouth shut just makes people assume its in there cuz you're not saying anything. They shut down the rumor of 4-player co-op among other things, so why not just come clean about the LIVE and sys-link co-op? Now they gotta deal with people being pissed about it. I'm sure they won't do anything about it, but that still doesn't mean we have to like it.

On another note, I really doubt that there's a hidden multiplayer mode where people get on LIVE and play roles of grunts, brutes, elites, spartans, etc. and fully enact the campaign mode somehow. I think that's just what they were thinking of when they made multiplayer the elites vs spartans setup that it is now. And about that quote where he says, "anybody who finishes the game on any difficulty level will have their multiplayer greatly enriched", I think he just means you'll learn things about the game that you wouldn't necessarily have known right away had you skipped the campaign mode altogether. You probably just get experience that transfers into your deathmatch game if you know what I mean.

 

[Kon Tiki]

OMG can i put a halo 1 level in the halo 2 level folder and be able to play it? (seriously)

:lol Got to stop smoking so early in the morning.

 

[Blame!]

Blame!, you can eat a dick. Dreamer was obviously pretty annoyed by the news that they're not even including system-link co-op, much less XBOX LIVE co-op. Sorry, but as a huuuuge Halo fan, I agree completely with him. Its something they know the fans were asking for and the least they could have done was lay those rumors to rest when they sprung up.

All you fuckers need to get a grip man. Bungie must've had good reason to remain silent about the online co-op until the last minute.

Given what OXM has written in their review about finishing the game enriching your multiplayer experience permanently, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they simply couldn't finish online co-op before the game had to be submitted... and that by 11/9 they could offer it as downloadable content for those who have already finished the game.

So those of you giving the finger to Bungie right now, chill out until you know what the fuck is going on...eh?