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Pakistan to execute 500 jailed militants in wake of Taliban school massacre

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Krappadizzle

Krappadizzle

Member
"Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif ended the six-year moratorium on the death penalty, reinstating it for terrorism-related cases."




That is a scary sentence. I wonder who dictates what is considered terror?
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
xbhaskarx said:
They're in a war, if the battlefield extends to schools full of innocent kids it can extend to prisons full of murdering terrorists.

Just locking up militants isn't some foolproof solution: there have been dozens of terrorist attacks on prisons and prison escapes, and there have also been incidents where terrorists take hostages and demand the release of prisoners.

2012: 384 prisoners escape after Taliban raid on Pakistan prison
2013: 240 prisoners escape in Taliban midnight attack on Pakistan jail
2014: Taliban militants escape from Kandahar prison for fourth time in a decade
etc.
Click to expand...

This one should go right into the poor argumentative techniques thread. It actually made me laugh.

How many of those 500 are murdering terrorists? And then it's ok because sometimes terrorists escape? Ahahahahaha!
 
M

m_shortpants

Member
I'd have no issues with them executing people involved with the massacre. But if they're just executing randoms on death row...that's just senseless.
 
Baki

Baki

Member
Lamel said:
Don't know how I feel.

In one way, it is cornering the taliban even more. They are clearly affected by the military operation, and killing of their brethren in jail will drive them further into a corner. Plus, they will be less burden on society without taxes paying for them.

On the other hand, I hope emotional tensions don't put an innocent man on death row.
Click to expand...

Except I have no faith in Pakistan judicial system to actually take action on guilty people. It is a very broken and corrupt system. God knows how many of those supposed militants are actually innocent.
 
Wiktor

Wiktor

Member
KHarvey16 said:
And that actually strikes you as a valid reason? Please be joking.
Click to expand...

Pakistan isn't exactly the most stable country around.
Vast majority of those people are guilty and calming down the population can be seen as worthy the price of lives of the few who are innocent.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
xbhaskarx said:
They're in a war, if the battlefield extends to schools full of innocent kids it can extend to prisons full of murdering terrorists.

Just locking up militants isn't some foolproof solution: there have been dozens of terrorist attacks on prisons and prison escapes, and there have also been incidents where terrorists take hostages and demand the release of prisoners.

2012: 384 prisoners escape after Taliban raid on Pakistan prison
2013: 240 prisoners escape in Taliban midnight attack on Pakistan jail
2014: Taliban militants escape from Kandahar prison for fourth time in a decade
etc.

Sarposa prison attack of 2008
"The Sarposa Prison attack was a raid on the Sarposa Prison in Kandahar, Afghanistan by Taliban insurgents on June 13, 2008. One of the largest attacks by Afghan insurgents, the raid freed 400-1000 prisoners."
Click to expand...

If this is the rationale behind mass executions, you're better off not taking prisoners, period. Dispense with the illusion of due process or sane punishment.

It's utterly insane that a nuclear power like Pakistan could have such flimsy control over its government-sponsored correctional facilities.
 
Y

You Are Viewtiful

Member
AdrianWerner said:
Pakistan is actually supposed to have the best intellience agency in the world, so they might actually have less errors than americans did in Gitmo.
Click to expand...

Are they really? Were they really unaware that Osama was near the capital or they were complicit?

Either way, the Pakitani judiciary is probably corrupt, so I would not trust their judgement.
 
Leatherface

Leatherface

Member
KHarvey16 said:
Not even intel, but just the criminal justice system in general. There isn't a system in the world that hasn't or couldn't imprison an innocent person.



Sorry, but this is childish nonsense. These executions potentially kill innocent people and buy them nothing. I am willing to bet terrorists who routinely commit suicide to kill their "enemies" are not scared of being killed when they get caught.
Click to expand...

Don't apologize. You are just naive.
Let me ask you this. How fast do you think these extremist groups would fall apart if instead of fighting them directly, we instead focused on their families? Maybe kidnap anyone remotely related and force them into hard labor camps and/or execute them? Think that would send a message?

I'm not saying it's right or I even have the heart to do such nonsense, but these are the kinds of things that make people change their tune in a hurry. Sometimes brutality is the only way a message is received and understood. How do you think gangs, the mafia, drug cartels, terrorist organizations get so vast and effective? Not by positive reinforcement I'll tell you that much...

Basically, get your head out of your ass.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
You Are Viewtiful said:
Are they really? Were they really unaware that Osama was near the capital or they were complicit?
Click to expand...

No one can ever prove it, but you'd have to think they were complicit. Which is why the US didn't ask permission to drop in and attack the compound.

Leatherface said:
Don't apologize. You are just naive.
Let me ask you this. How fast do you think these extremist groups would fall apart if instead of fighting them directly, we instead focused on their families? Maybe kidnap anyone remotely related and force them into hard labor camps and/or execute them? Think that would send a message?

I'm not saying it's right or I even have the heart to do such nonsense, but these are the kinds of things that make people change their tune in a hurry. Sometimes brutality is the only way a message is received and understood. How do you think gangs, the mafia, drug cartels, terrorist organizations get so vast and effective? Not by positive reinforcement I'll tell you that much...

Basically, get your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...

Again, if you're advocating sheer brutality, the Israeli method is proven to be the best method. Hamas barely has any teeth left. Turn the entire mountain region into a parking lot, no more Taliban. Mass executions of defenseless prisoners isn't the display of force you think it is from the "good guys".
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
Leatherface said:
Don't apologize. You are just naive.
Let me ask you this. How fast do you think these extremist groups would fall apart if instead of fighting them directly, we instead focused on their families? Maybe kidnap anyone remotely related and force them into hard labor camps and/or execute them? Think that would send a message?

I'm not saying it's right or I even have the heart to do such nonsense, but these are the kinds of things that make people change their tune in a hurry. Sometimes brutality is the only way a message is received and understood. How do you think gangs, the mafia, drug cartels, terrorist organizations get so vast and effective? Not by positive reinforcement I'll tell you that much...

Basically, get your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...

I am amused by the accusation of naïveté followed by the simplest of simplistic arguments one could imagine putting forward. It's almost impressive.
 
E

egruntz

shelaughz
Just a quick question:

To all those saying "this just gives Taliban more reason to kill!"

How does this make sense to you? They don't need reason to kill...they've been doing it, they're doing it now, and they'll continue to do it in the future, regardless of any judicial punishment.

Still not sure how I think about the death penalty. I'd like to see some effort from the government to closely investigate in the mission of sifting through the guilty from the innocent, but that's not realistic.

I don't believe that death penalty is never justified, and I don't believe that there's always a better solution either.

Certainly feels right here. But I don't know the whole story. Admittedly uninformed on this particular event.
 
O

OverBlood 3

Banned
Leatherface said:
Don't apologize. You are just naive.
Let me ask you this. How fast do you think these extremist groups would fall apart if instead of fighting them directly, we instead focused on their families? Maybe kidnap anyone remotely related and force them into hard labor camps and/or execute them? Think that would send a message?

I'm not saying it's right or I even have the heart to do such nonsense, but these are the kinds of things that make people change their tune in a hurry. Sometimes brutality is the only way a message is received and understood. How do you think gangs, the mafia, drug cartels, terrorist organizations get so vast and effective? Not by positive reinforcement I'll tell you that much...

Basically, get your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...

You're a lunatic.
 
Leatherface

Leatherface

Member
KHarvey16 said:
I am amused by the accusation of naïveté followed by the simplest of simplistic arguments one could imagine putting forward. It's almost impressive.
Click to expand...

I kept it simple for you. It was apparent by your previous comment that you don't know how the world works.
 
Leatherface

Leatherface

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
No one can ever prove it, but you'd have to think they were complicit. Which is why the US didn't ask permission to drop in and attack the compound.



Again, if you're advocating sheer brutality, the Israeli method is proven to be the best method. Hamas barely has any teeth left. Turn the entire mountain region into a parking lot, no more Taliban. Mass executions of defenseless prisoners isn't the display of force you think it is from the "good guys".
Click to expand...

I'm not advocating sheer brutality. I don't think it's the "right" thing to do, more of a last resort as a "good guy". But it is a tactic and it does work. All I'm saying is that if I was backed into a corner, my response probably wouldn't be that different. What are they to do, cower in fear? Pray? Hope for the best?
 
G

Gentleman Jack

Member
Bit more gaffers than I would have expected with so much faith in the infallibility of Pakistan's court system and their application of the death penalty.
 
J

Jacob

Member
Leatherface said:
Don't apologize. You are just naive.
Let me ask you this. How fast do you think these extremist groups would fall apart if instead of fighting them directly, we instead focused on their families? Maybe kidnap anyone remotely related and force them into hard labor camps and/or execute them? Think that would send a message?

I'm not saying it's right or I even have the heart to do such nonsense, but these are the kinds of things that make people change their tune in a hurry. Sometimes brutality is the only way a message is received and understood. How do you think gangs, the mafia, drug cartels, terrorist organizations get so vast and effective? Not by positive reinforcement I'll tell you that much...

Basically, get your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...

Terrorist/insurgent groups want escalation. Blanket reprisals against innocents help their cause and increase sympathy for them in the general population, which increases their chances of long-term success. Read up on Vietnam, Algeria, Northern Ireland, Iraq, or any number of other cases. The list of examples of brutal repression succeeding at ending an insurgency is very small compared to the list of conflicts that it just made even worse.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
Ideals have to be erradicated. Anyone here proficient in history know about how the mindset of Nazi Germany was changed? I can't imagine all who held their beliefs died.
 
Leatherface

Leatherface

Member
Jacob said:
Terrorist/insurgent groups want escalation. Blanket reprisals against innocents help their cause and increase sympathy for them in the general population, which increases their chances of long-term success. Read up on Vietnam, Algeria, Northern Ireland, Iraq, or any number of other cases. The list of examples of brutal repression succeeding at ending an insurgency is very small compared to the list of conflicts that it just made even worse.
Click to expand...

Terrorists/Insurgent groups want to control. They use fear as a tool to gain that control. I'm not saying killing innocents is the right thing to do get at a group like this but morals go into the grey zone. It's not like Pakistan is loading up random people from the street to execute. These are militants. I'm willing to bet 100% of these militant inmates to be executed are not in jail for jay walking. Do they all deserve to die? No probably not, but they played the game and this is one of the consequences. It's obvious Pakistan is fed the hell up with this shit and have reached a point where they feel backed into a corner. They are simply not tolerating this anymore. This is a very strong fuck you message to the Taliban and I can't say I blame their actions. Sorry, but that's how I feel.
 
F

FZZ

Banned
The chances of innocent civilians being put on death row make me really worried.

I understand the sentiment, but the risks are still too high.

With that said I hope Pakistan uses everything in its arsenal to fucking eradicate the Taliban and make any other terrorist group fucking scared from getting near my home country again. I'm tired of seeing so much anguish over a couple sadistic fucks mad that they're being targeted for killing other people.
 
M

Moosichu

Member
Leatherface said:
Terrorists/Insurgent groups want to control. They use fear as a tool to gain that control. I'm not saying killing innocents is the right thing to do get at a group like this but morals go into the grey zone. It's not like Pakistan is loading up random people from the street to execute. These are militants. I'm willing to bet 100% of these militant inmates to be executed are not in jail for jay walking. Do they all deserve to die? No probably not, but they played the game and this is one of the consequences. It's obvious Pakistan is fed the hell up with this shit and have reached a point where they feel backed into a corner. They are simply not tolerating this anymore. This is a very strong fuck you message to the Taliban and I can't say I blame their actions. Sorry, but that's how I feel.
Click to expand...

You really are naive. A number of people out of those 500 will be innocent.
 
paolo11

paolo11

Member
Not trying to start a debate but I need to ask this.

If you are against the death penalty, what is the best course of action?
 
S

StayDead

Member
An eye for an eye makes the world blind.

This is only going to make the Taliban attack more innocent people. Killing these people does not bring those children back, nor does it solve any prroblems. This is barbaric itself.
 
G

Gentleman Jack

Member
paolo11 said:
Not trying to start a debate but I need to ask this.

If you are against the death penalty, what is the best course of action?
Click to expand...

Pakistan's judicial system needs a lot of work if these 500 jailed militants aren't merely in line for the bloodthirsty reprisal sought by the army. But this is clearly a revenge slaughter, not something that doesn't have alternatives like...not killing them en masse.

Last I checked a lot of these militant groups now attacking Pakistan are proxy armies that the ISI funded and has since lost all control over, so there is no easy answer. People saying 'this isn't the answer' aren't suggesting there is a tidy solution.
 
D

Derwind

Member
jakonovski said:
Lots of hard men wanting to make hard decisions here. Or just faux bloodthirsty internet nerds.
Click to expand...

It really just seems to me that there is a huge disconnect with some over being guilty or recieving a guilty verdict. Similarly in other threads, 'not guilty ' equates to foolproof innocence.

Also it being a distant issue, making it less worthy of consideration and the words 'insurgent' & 'execution' wrap this up in a neat little bow.

Basically, Kill Em All. Shed no tears. Blah blah.

Its worthless to continue a conversation at that point.
 
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